ATI Issues and Settings Recommendations
By
ActionJakson,
Posted on: 2007-07-09 15:58 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
I think the FSAA mess up the ATI even those I got ATI HD 4075 Video card it works great I just turn off FSAA to make it good. :P
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I've got a question. Do the ATI drivers have problems on Rikti maps? I was in an instanced Rikti mission a few days ago ("Save the World"), and in the last room, if I look at the room at the "wrong" camera angle, everything sort of disappeared. Characters were still there, and I could see the green skybox, but that's it. Moving the camera fixed the problem.
Is this normal for an ATI card to do?
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I thought that was normal on ALL cards. I'm pretty sure that map has been broken since it came out or close to it. |
Originally Posted by kirbyrockz
I've got a question. Do the ATI drivers have problems on Rikti maps? I was in an instanced Rikti mission a few days ago ("Save the World"), and in the last room, if I look at the room at the "wrong" camera angle, everything sort of disappeared. Characters were still there, and I could see the green skybox, but that's it. Moving the camera fixed the problem.
Is this normal for an ATI card to do? |
Ahh; I did not know this. Thanks.
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
Four quick pieces of advice for ATI users:
1) If you have ANY drivers other than the 10.4s installed, install the 10.4s. They contain a fix for the Shadow Map shader quality crash issue which affected the 10.2 and 10.3 drivers. Be sure to completely uninstall your old drivers first. Note: laptop users and people using ancient ATI cards, make sure your laptop doesn't use legacy video drivers before you try to install the desktop or mobility 10.4s. If your system screws up because you tried to install incompatible drivers, not my fault. |
Just a quick question...I have a Radeon X800 XT card and just went to ATI/AMD's driver download page and the highest version they have is 10.2...where would one find the 10.4 drivers?
Edit: Okay so I did a search for 'ati 10.4 drivers' and found a different site on AMD's site...game.amd.com....whatever. However in the release notes that I found for 10.4 it doesn't say it supports the X800 series of cards.
http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx is the site where I found the 10.4. Would the driver still work for the X800 card?
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That would be because you have a 'legacy' card. Which is a nice way of saying they no longer really support you. So 10.2 is the best you can get unfortunately.
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Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
Just a quick question...I have a Radeon X800 XT card and just went to ATI/AMD's driver download page and the highest version they have is 10.2...where would one find the 10.4 drivers?
Edit: Okay so I did a search for 'ati 10.4 drivers' and found a different site on AMD's site...game.amd.com....whatever. However in the release notes that I found for 10.4 it doesn't say it supports the X800 series of cards. http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx is the site where I found the 10.4. Would the driver still work for the X800 card? |
It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.
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Lovely..... I also have that video card, EVERYTHING is choppy. Reduced the graphics to the lowest possible and still no luck. If I move in any direction, it keeps moving in that direction, cant turn or stop. At first I thought it might be batteries, replaced them, still same problem.|
Originally Posted by Back_Blast
That would be because you have a 'legacy' card. Which is a nice way of saying they no longer really support you. So 10.2 is the best you can get unfortunately.
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So they update the graphics possibilities, and now I cant use the game anymore without shelling out more for a better gfx card?
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Sounds like the input lag issue some have complained of. One possible fix is to disable the ATI Hotkey Poller service. That might fix you.
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Originally Posted by katman
Lovely..... I also have that video card, EVERYTHING is choppy. Reduced the graphics to the lowest possible and still no luck. If I move in any direction, it keeps moving in that direction, cant turn or stop. At first I thought it might be batteries, replaced them, still same problem.
So they update the graphics possibilities, and now I cant use the game anymore without shelling out more for a better gfx card? |
It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.
Anything newer then 10.4s yet?
5850 with 10.4 drivers: FSAA+AO = artifacts
no way to have them both
I am an unhappy camper. Thanks for this thread though. I have two 5770s in Xfire. With FSAA I have no jaggies. With AO I get amazing graphics. Too bad both can't combine. I'd rather have no shaders and smooth lines than jaggies.
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Originally Posted by katman
Lovely..... I also have that video card, EVERYTHING is choppy. Reduced the graphics to the lowest possible and still no luck. If I move in any direction, it keeps moving in that direction, cant turn or stop. At first I thought it might be batteries, replaced them, still same problem.
So they update the graphics possibilities, and now I cant use the game anymore without shelling out more for a better gfx card? |
It was worse in beta for me. It's not too choppy/rubber-bandy for me. The only times I get choppy is when I'm outside in a zone (nerva/etc) and it's not too bad. Inside a mission I usually don't have an issue.
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Originally Posted by Ghern
I am an unhappy camper. Thanks for this thread though. I have two 5770s in Xfire. With FSAA I have no jaggies. With AO I get amazing graphics. Too bad both can't combine. I'd rather have no shaders and smooth lines than jaggies. |
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
Four quick pieces of advice for ATI users:
2) There is currently a compatibility issue when trying to use both FSAA and Ambient Occlusion. This issue typically affects the 5xxx series ATI cards, but it might also happen on certain older cards. This issue has been present since the beginning of the I17 closed beta. Unless ATI can come up with a solution, the only way around it is to use either FSAA or Ambient Occlusion. Using both, regardless of what setting either feature is on, will result in graphical artifacting. |
And why exactly is it on ATi to rectify the situation?
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Because it's a driver issue and ATI writes the drivers.
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Originally Posted by SpeakerJones
And why exactly is it on ATi to rectify the situation? |
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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Like the "driver issue" that kept ATi users from activating a good many settings long before ultra mode was a twinkle in Paragon's eye? Or that kept ATi users from even doing something as simple as alt-tabbing? That were never actually fixed? (At least they weren't while I was subscribed, I've been gone quite a while.)|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Because it's a driver issue and ATI writes the drivers.
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At a certain point, doesn't it fall to the developer to make his product operate properly with what's available? Not deliver a half broken product, pass the buck to drivers, and throw up his hands declaring "We can't do anything unless they make their drivers work around our code."
I probably sound far angrier than I actually am, its just hugely frustrating. I've finally got a box decent enough to turn all this nonsense on and properly crank it up, but I can't. WANTS ALL THE PRETTIES. RAWRRRRR.
They fixed Alt-Tabbing. That much I know for sure.
ati 5850 with 10.4 drivers, win7 x64
ccc settings:
AA: use application settings
AF: use application settings
A.I.: disable catalyst a.i.
mipmap level: high quality
wait for vertical refresh: off, unless application specifies
AA mode: adaptive multi-sample aa
opengl settings: triple buffering (unckecked)
FSAA 2x, AO off and max detail level, here's the result:
direct link
how do you explain those edges??
Update: the problem lies with AA only, no matter which settings are on CCC, I always get bad results with AA. 2x AA and x8 AA results are the same, x4 AA looks a bit better and still buggy.
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Nope. Especially not when recoding the product to work with poorly coded drivers may cause problems for people using products with properly coded drivers. Yes, they've been talking to ATI about the issues for some time, and several of us hoped that having Agent Ruby posting on the boards (albeit for a short time and apparently only for a promotional appearance) was going to bring much needed changes to the ATI drivers.|
Originally Posted by SpeakerJones
At a certain point, doesn't it fall to the developer to make his product operate properly with what's available? Not deliver a half broken product, pass the buck to drivers, and throw up his hands declaring "We can't do anything unless they make their drivers work around our code." |
It didn't happen, but I still wouldn't want PS to recode the game and possibly break several systems that worked correctly since the drivers were not a problem. I run more than one computer at times, and if a change to accomodate poorly written ATI drivers breaks things that work with properly written nVidia drivers, I will be posting in favor of a patch rollback. And I suspect several others are in the same situation and would likely be joining in the call for a rollback.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Quote:
So, with the multitude of other games out there on the market that manage to accomplish effects like AO *and* AA simultaneously just fine with the current ATi drivers, you maintain the drivers are the issue, and not how PS coded their new effects? Now, I'm not trying to lay everything at Paragon's feet, not trying to start a "Devs hate ATi!" to replace "Devs hate villains!" here. I'm sure adjustments could be made in the drivers to allow for what PS did. I'm likewise as sure adjustments could have been made to the AO code to make it work within the current drivers.|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Nope. Especially not when recoding the product to work with poorly coded drivers may cause problems for people using products with properly coded drivers. Yes, they've been talking to ATI about the issues for some time, and several of us hoped that having Agent Ruby posting on the boards (albeit for a short time and apparently only for a promotional appearance) was going to bring much needed changes to the ATI drivers.
It didn't happen, but I still wouldn't want PS to recode the game and possibly break several systems that worked correctly since the drivers were not a problem. I run more than one computer at times, and if a change to accomodate poorly written ATI drivers breaks things that work with properly written nVidia drivers, I will be posting in favor of a patch rollback. And I suspect several others are in the same situation and would likely be joining in the call for a rollback. |
However, what I will say is that it never should have gotten to this point. Between them they should have worked the kinks out before it was even released, and it *really* better be ironed out before Going Rogue is on the shelves, bragging about Ultra Mode. The new box will no doubt attract some new players, how long do you think they'll be around if the shiny new graphics touted on said box only half work for a good number of them?
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The developers, programmers, and engineers at PS have done a whole hell of a lot to get as many people's systems running properly as possible with the various graphics updates and fixes that were included in Issue 17. But the reality is that there's only so much they can do with regard to hardware. Unfortunately, those of us who use ATI cards are stuck in the middle of what happens when a development house has done all they can and must request that the hardware manufacturer try something. All during the I17 closed and open beta, I was in regular contact with The Television, discussing the various problems ATI users still experienced. Paragon was able to hammer out the majority, with two notable exceptions: a bug where those using Catalyst 10.2 or 10.3 drivers would experience massive, rapid framerate loss and RAM consumption (which quickly led to client crash) when they tried to change the quality of the shadow map shader; and graphical artifacting that occurred whenever FSAA and AO were used in conjunction with each other. Those two particular issues had to be forwarded to AMD/ATI for investigation.|
Originally Posted by SpeakerJones
So, with the multitude of other games out there on the market that manage to accomplish effects like AO *and* AA simultaneously just fine with the current ATi drivers, you maintain the drivers are the issue, and not how PS coded their new effects? Now, I'm not trying to lay everything at Paragon's feet, not trying to start a "Devs hate ATi!" to replace "Devs hate villains!" here. I'm sure adjustments could be made in the drivers to allow for what PS did. I'm likewise as sure adjustments could have been made to the AO code to make it work within the current drivers.
However, what I will say is that it never should have gotten to this point. Between them they should have worked the kinks out before it was even released, and it *really* better be ironed out before Going Rogue is on the shelves, bragging about Ultra Mode. The new box will no doubt attract some new players, how long do you think they'll be around if the shiny new graphics touted on said box only half work for a good number of them? |
When the 10.4 Catalyst drivers were released, the shadow map shader bug had been fixed. That only leaves the FSAA/AO conflict to be resolved, if possible. The 10.5 Catalysts were released a few hours ago at most, and as you can likely tell from my previous sentence, they do not include a fix for the FSAA/AO conflict. This is not Paragon Studios' fault! This isn't a game-crashing bug, so it probably isn't high priority for AMD. Also, remember that AMD typically releases hotfix drivers to cover changes that weren't able to be included in the WHQL driver release. Finally, and most annoyingly, CoH is NOT the only game that's had issues with FSAA, AF, and/or AO when being run on the 5xxx series of cards. While it's a powerful series, there ARE some design flaws that have had to be ironed out since the series was introduced.
Long story short: Yeah, it sucks about FSAA and AO not working well together. But at this point, it's not up to paragon Studios to try and come up with a fix. They've done all they can do. It's not their fault that one series of ATI card has difficulties rendering both FSAA and AO.
Oh, and just as a point of reference: the Hero-con Praetoria/Ultra Mode demo that included FSAA and AO was run on two Crossfired 4xxx cards (the specific models escape me right now), before the 5xxx series was even released.
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
As mentioned in my previous post:
10.5 Catalysts have been released!
As I've already said, no FSAA/AO fix yet, but everything seems fine aside from that. Maybe we'll get something nice in a 10.5 hotfix driver. I prefer to be cautiously optimistic; DOOOOOOOM is bad for your complexion! 
Edit: After putting the drivers through their paces a bit, I must admit that this particular set is a bit underwhelming. Performance increases were minimal at best, and I even lost FPS in a few games. On the plus side, ATI is slowly but surely fixing a lot of compatibility issues with various hardware configurations, and I think that the OpenGL 4.0 drivers have been incorporated into standard drivers with this release. I need to get confirmation of that, though.
So, while you should ideally always keep your drivers updated, there's no real rush to install the 10.5s unless you have a problem elsewhere that they fix.
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
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Try turning off Depth of Field Effects, that's what fixed FSAA for me.
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Originally Posted by Vanex_NA
FSAA 2x, AO off and max detail level, here's the result:
direct link how do you explain those edges?? Update: the problem lies with AA only, no matter which settings are on CCC, I always get bad results with AA. 2x AA and x8 AA results are the same, x4 AA looks a bit better and still buggy. |
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10.5 does not solve anything here.
AA+DoF (no AO) = problems
AA+AO (no DoF) = problems
DoF+AO (no AA) = OK
so problems lie with AA!
doom or not doom I spent 250€ for a 5850 and the visual quality is LESS than with my old 8800GTS 320 where I could use AA+AO+DoF at the same resolution (and half fps).
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So complain to ATI about their broken drivers. If you don't complain, they have no reason to fix it.
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Originally Posted by Vanex_NA
10.5 does not solve anything here.
AA+DoF (no AO) = problems AA+AO (no DoF) = problems DoF+AO (no AA) = OK so problems lie with AA! doom or not doom I spent 250 for a 5850 and the visual quality is LESS than with my old 8800GTS 320 where I could use AA+AO+DoF at the same resolution (and half fps). |
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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