Discussion: Inventing Wings with Jay Doherty
By
Anti_Proton,
Posted on: 2007-04-17 09:48 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[ QUOTE ]
The new costume items are simply not available for use, as far as I'm concerned.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep!
Course with my luck, I will get the right wings, but I'll get them, oh, say on Guardian, but I want them on a character on Liberty... there's really no safe or cheap way to transfer the recipe across servers, as far as I know. 
While an interesting article, these Wings have been finished since Issue Eight went live, with the exception of the Tech Wings I believe. Did it really take Jay the entirety of the months since then to make a few pairs of boots and one set of wings? Furthermore, the drop rate for these new Wings is so poor that Jay may as well not have wasted his time creating them, as a teeny, tiny, minority of players will benefit from his work if the situation is not improved.
Also, I really hope those costume designs for the example characters in there are the product of the random button. They're not really what I'd expect from a professional designer. 
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
[ QUOTE ]
Who's the guy sporting the bone wings? Zombie Statesman? Satansman?
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, it was Zombie Tradesman. 
[ QUOTE ]
While an interesting article, these Wings have been finished since Issue Eight went live, with the exception of the Tech Wings I believe. Did it really take Jay the entirety of the months since then to make a few pairs of boots and one set of wings? Furthermore, the drop rate for these new Wings is so poor that Jay may as well not have wasted his time creating them, as a teeny, tiny, minority of players will benefit from his work if the situation is not improved.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was in the final part of the Closed Beta, and I finally got a costume piece today....
[ QUOTE ]
While an interesting article, these Wings have been finished since Issue Eight went live, with the exception of the Tech Wings I believe. Did it really take Jay the entirety of the months since then to make a few pairs of boots and one set of wings? Furthermore, the drop rate for these new Wings is so poor that Jay may as well not have wasted his time creating them, as a teeny, tiny, minority of players will benefit from his work if the situation is not improved.
[/ QUOTE ]
*Can't say it better and will reserve any bitterness on the issue*
Current Hero: Memoriam
Current Villian:Matty the Burn
Global Chat: Azazel005
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"And what better way to give these new wing sets to our players than through our new Invention system!"
Well... off the cuff I'd say, "as part of the regular Vet reward package," but I've promised to refrain from grousing (too much) about Costume Inventions until I get to play with the system. So I'll let this serve as a microgrouse.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was thinking....maybe.....um.....THE CHARACTER CREATION SCREEN?!?!
[/ QUOTE ]
Putting these in as drops and tying them to the invention system isn't the worst thing they've ever done. It's far from the best, though.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
[ QUOTE ]
While an interesting article, these Wings have been finished since Issue Eight went live, with the exception of the Tech Wings I believe. Did it really take Jay the entirety of the months since then to make a few pairs of boots and one set of wings?
[/ QUOTE ]
Sadar said in the previous Warcry interview that they were already working on Issue 11 features. So if the models for these wings have been in the code since I8, who knows what Jay has been working on since.
Of course, it makes sense that the article would only come out when they were officially released 
[ QUOTE ]
Furthermore, the drop rate for these new Wings is so poor that Jay may as well not have wasted his time creating them, as a teeny, tiny, minority of players will benefit from his work if the situation is not improved.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because the Test server is representative of what will happen on Live. And because everyone should always have every time whenever they want it because rewards are pointless
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who's the guy sporting the bone wings? Zombie Statesman? Satansman?
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, it was Zombie Tradesman.
[/ QUOTE ]
The article is fine, and I'll keep my opinions on the implimentation of the new wings to myself..... but why oh why isn't there more wild speculation on appearance of said "zombie statesman" face/helmet costume piece (see lower right picture in Jay's article).
I know others have said it, but I'm inclined to agree there could be a hefty little sum of costume pieces waiting in the wings (pun intended) to be released near the end of testing or when I9 goes live. It'd make sense the dev's want us to quibble more over the technical details of the new invention system than oggle over new (and hopefully free*) costume pieces to be added into I9.
/em crosses fingers for statesman'esque zombie helmet
*free as in "included at the charcter creation/tailor screen"
[ QUOTE ]
"And what better way to give these new wing sets to our players than through our new Invention system!"
Well... off the cuff I'd say, "as part of the regular Vet reward package," but I've promised to refrain from grousing (too much) about Costume Inventions until I get to play with the system. So I'll let this serve as a microgrouse.
[ QUOTE ]
I was thinking....maybe.....um.....THE CHARACTER CREATION SCREEN?!?!
[/ QUOTE ]
The cries of dying babies were heard at the bloody altars in paragon city. Now dont be put off this is a humane story, since legally no humans were hurt. The cries were form aliens, faireis and mutants. Since techinally they were not human this was not inhumane treatment. Many heroes rejoiced becuse theses wings would be scattered to the villians and monsters that thretend paragon city.That ment the heroes could take theese wings and claim them as there own and look verry stylish in the process. It was sopposed that maybe a few of the babies would survive and would appreciate it if they saw a superior ranked hero sporting the wings that were taken from them at birth. It was also acceptable they would stare with awe and wonderment at such heroes who went the extra mile to see that no injustice would escape thier sight.
The Legendary Cosmological Prince Reigar 53rd Illusion Control/Storm Summoning/Primal Forces Mastery/Incarnate
It's a dark and story night. That means something bad is happening out there
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The new wings do look great, but I think the invention system was the WRONG way to bring them in. Especially with the current drop rates, it makes it a pain in the butt to get them, and renders them similar to the "1334" camp/raid/massive time sink items of certain other, not-to-be-named, mmos.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Inventions system is exactly the RIGHT way to bring these into the game. I'm glad we won't be seeing dozens of fairies, insect men or women, and rocket boot guys the day after I9 goes live.
[/ QUOTE ]
So, if you have a character design that needs one of those to look right, how many more issues should you be forced to wait?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The new wings do look great, but I think the invention system was the WRONG way to bring them in. Especially with the current drop rates, it makes it a pain in the butt to get them, and renders them similar to the "1334" camp/raid/massive time sink items of certain other, not-to-be-named, mmos.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Inventions system is exactly the RIGHT way to bring these into the game. I'm glad we won't be seeing dozens of fairies, insect men or women, and rocket boot guys the day after I9 goes live.
[/ QUOTE ]
So, if you have a character design that needs one of those to look right, how many more issues should you be forced to wait?
[/ QUOTE ]
Forced?
Whether I agree or disagree with the premise of invented wings (that were originally all inventions, vet rewards were a gift and a preview to inventions...) but regardless of that... forced? You're forced? How? Some nutjob comes to your house and holds a gun to your head demanding you play a game?
[ QUOTE ]
Whether I agree or disagree with the premise of invented wings (that were originally all inventions, vet rewards were a gift and a preview to inventions...) but regardless of that... forced? You're forced? How? Some nutjob comes to your house and holds a gun to your head demanding you play a game?
[/ QUOTE ]
You seem very confused. Your solution to not being able to build a fitting costume in the game is to... not play? Somehow, I'm not seeing how that results in being able to build a fitting costume.
With the current drop rates, the average player with a particular costume piece in mind will probably not see that piece this issue. Or for that matter, the next. How many issues do you consider to be an appropriate wait?
Is it me... or does that red demon with the bone wings at teh bottom have statesman's mask on?
Jay Doherty: Yes, there was this one night that I was ready to go home but had to drop the browns off at the super bowl before I left for home. While on the throne it hit me. I stayed for a few more hours and that why we have the pain pads in the game.
The Statesman mask is inventable?!?!?!
*starts pwning for phat l00t*
I WANT MAH MASK!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
While an interesting article, these Wings have been finished since Issue Eight went live, with the exception of the Tech Wings I believe. Did it really take Jay the entirety of the months since then to make a few pairs of boots and one set of wings?
[/ QUOTE ]
Sadar said in the previous Warcry interview that they were already working on Issue 11 features. So if the models for these wings have been in the code since I8, who knows what Jay has been working on since.
[/ QUOTE ]
Who knows indeed? Because all the evidence we have of his handi-work that hasn't been known for months is 3 pairs of boots, 1 pair of wings, and a new pair of glasses.
Of course, Cryptic has other projects under way, so perhaps he's working on those.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course, it makes sense that the article would only come out when they were officially released
[ QUOTE ]
Furthermore, the drop rate for these new Wings is so poor that Jay may as well not have wasted his time creating them, as a teeny, tiny, minority of players will benefit from his work if the situation is not improved.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because the Test server is representative of what will happen on Live. And because everyone should always have every time whenever they want it because rewards are pointless
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
I've never argued that these costumes should be automatically available to everyone. I just think the drop rate needs to be reasonable. Which it currently is not.
Also, your point about the Test Server is absurd. Do you even read the Community Digest? Or did you miss the "Issue Nine Final Focus Testing" thread Ex Libris posted? Thats a pretty good indication thats whats currently on test, small bug fixes aside, is what will go live.
The Test Server is very representative of what goes Live. The vast majority of changes that go to Test, go to Live unchanged. There are a few exceptions, but they are a very, very, small percentile of the total changes.
Furthermore, drop rates are coded into the game, unless they are intentionally changed by the developers, they aren't going to magically change just by I9 being pushed to Live.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Whether I agree or disagree with the premise of invented wings (that were originally all inventions, vet rewards were a gift and a preview to inventions...) but regardless of that... forced? You're forced? How? Some nutjob comes to your house and holds a gun to your head demanding you play a game?
[/ QUOTE ]
You seem very confused. Your solution to not being able to build a fitting costume in the game is to... not play? Somehow, I'm not seeing how that results in being able to build a fitting costume.
With the current drop rates, the average player with a particular costume piece in mind will probably not see that piece this issue. Or for that matter, the next. How many issues do you consider to be an appropriate wait?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I am confused. How how you forced to engage in a hobby that's for fun?
Also, I offer no solution. None. All I offer is what I've been told. I've been told that originally inventions were to be included in I8, they were not. As an offering to appease the teaming masses screaming for wings, two wing designs were taken out of inventions and made to be vet rewards. So, if inventions had launched with I8 as planned, there would be no vet reward wings. None. And the compromise is bad? They changed things to make the players happy and that was bad?
Yes, I am confused... by you.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Apparently the tech wings don't even start dropping until the 40s.
[/ QUOTE ]
There ain't no way this is true.
[/ QUOTE ]
Here's what I had from back when, but I don't know where the original post about it is:
Levels 10-25: Fairy Wings, Insect Wings
Levels 26-40: Burned Wings, Draconic Wings
Levels 41-50: Bat Wings, Bone Wings, Cherubic Wings, Tech Wings
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I am confused. How how you forced to engage in a hobby that's for fun?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, I understand. You're not confused: you're dishonest. That's a straw man argument.
Nobody is being forced to play. Feel free to stop at any time. On the other hand, nobody is talking about being forced to play.
On the other hand, if you are intending to build a character with a design that would use an invented costume piece under the current arrangements, you are being forced not to by the mechanics. Your options are to either not build the costume piece by virtue of doing something else in game, or not build the costume piece of doing something else out of the game. That's what 'forced' means. You don't have an option that actually lets you build the costume.
[ QUOTE ]
Also, I offer no solution. None.
[/ QUOTE ]
So I noticed. You also dodged the question. How long should players be forced to wait? You've practically acknowledged that you endorse the extended waiting period, so be up front: how long should it take?
[ QUOTE ]
All I offer is what I've been told. I've been told that originally inventions were to be included in I8, they were not. As an offering to appease the teaming masses screaming for wings, two wing designs were taken out of inventions and made to be vet rewards. So, if inventions had launched with I8 as planned, there would be no vet reward wings. None. And the compromise is bad? They changed things to make the players happy and that was bad?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, if the result was that almost nobody gets the wings. If that's their version of 'making players happy', we could use less of that. I'd cheerfully give up having wings as vet rewards if they were simply stuck into the costume designer for anyone to use. I suspect that they could yank the new wings altogether for another two issues, and it will make zero difference to the vast majority of the playerbase.
The current system is a lottery. A handful of people will win the lotto, and everyone else loses. On average, most people in their lifetimes will not win the lottery in real life. On average, most people in the coming issue will not win the costume pieces they want, either. I have no idea why you think this is 'making players happy'.
[ QUOTE ]
So, if you have a character design that needs one of those to look right, how many more issues should you be forced to wait?
[/ QUOTE ]
i dont intend to be rude or anything but if you need wings to make a costume work id suggest using one of the other 4 and possibly 5 costume slots until you can get them. Stop playing because your costume doesnt work? of course not. but itd probably be a good idea to use the things they have given you until then.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I am confused. How how you forced to engage in a hobby that's for fun?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, I understand. You're not confused: you're dishonest. That's a straw man argument.
Nobody is being forced to play. Feel free to stop at any time. On the other hand, nobody is talking about being forced to play.
On the other hand, if you are intending to build a character with a design that would use an invented costume piece under the current arrangements, you are being forced not to by the mechanics. Your options are to either not build the costume piece by virtue of doing something else in game, or not build the costume piece of doing something else out of the game. That's what 'forced' means. You don't have an option that actually lets you build the costume.
[ QUOTE ]
Also, I offer no solution. None.
[/ QUOTE ]
So I noticed. You also dodged the question. How long should players be forced to wait? You've practically acknowledged that you endorse the extended waiting period, so be up front: how long should it take?
[ QUOTE ]
All I offer is what I've been told. I've been told that originally inventions were to be included in I8, they were not. As an offering to appease the teaming masses screaming for wings, two wing designs were taken out of inventions and made to be vet rewards. So, if inventions had launched with I8 as planned, there would be no vet reward wings. None. And the compromise is bad? They changed things to make the players happy and that was bad?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, if the result was that almost nobody gets the wings. If that's their version of 'making players happy', we could use less of that. I'd cheerfully give up having wings as vet rewards if they were simply stuck into the costume designer for anyone to use. I suspect that they could yank the new wings altogether for another two issues, and it will make zero difference to the vast majority of the playerbase.
The current system is a lottery. A handful of people will win the lotto, and everyone else loses. On average, most people in their lifetimes will not win the lottery in real life. On average, most people in the coming issue will not win the costume pieces they want, either. I have no idea why you think this is 'making players happy'.
[/ QUOTE ]
As my forum name is not red, it's not place to make those statements. Perhaps you'll find the answers you seek by PM'ing one of those who has a redname.
Also, please stop looking for an argument where none exists. I don't share your opinion but you are quite welcome to it regardless of how idiotic and ludicrous I find that opinion.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, if you have a character design that needs one of those to look right, how many more issues should you be forced to wait?
[/ QUOTE ]
i dont intend to be rude or anything but if you need wings to make a costume work id suggest using one of the other 4 and possibly 5 costume slots until you can get them. Stop playing because your costume doesnt work? of course not. but itd probably be a good idea to use the things they have given you until then.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, the people that care about how the character appearance matches the character design will simply not play (or likely even begin) that character. They can play other characters, of course, but doing so simply constitutes waiting.
The question to EvilGeko still remains: how long is an appropriate period to have to wait to be able to use the new costume pieces?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Apparently the tech wings don't even start dropping until the 40s.
[/ QUOTE ]
There ain't no way this is true.
[/ QUOTE ]
Here's what I had from back when, but I don't know where the original post about it is:
Levels 10-25: Fairy Wings, Insect Wings
Levels 26-40: Burned Wings, Draconic Wings
Levels 41-50: Bat Wings, Bone Wings, Cherubic Wings, Tech Wings
[/ QUOTE ]
Man.......that .......blows........
I've gotten 2 costume drops from scanner missions- nothing really good from street sweeping, so my hopes of getting lucky in Bloody Bay or Sirens Calll doesn't hold up hope....grrrrrrrrrr
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
[ QUOTE ]
As my forum name is not red, it's not place to make those statements.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, you have endorsed a waiting period on getting costume pieces. I'm calling you on it, and asking you to say how long. One issue? Two issues? Three? It's a simple question. No dev required. Your opinion made clear.
[ QUOTE ]
Also, please stop looking for an argument where none exists. I don't share your opinion but you are quite welcome to it regardless of how idiotic and ludicrous I find that opinion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Right. You make a hostile, sarcastic straw-man attack on someone else's position, but of course no argument exists.
[montypython]
We're not having an argument!
Yes we are!
No we're not!
[/montypython]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here's what I had from back when, but I don't know where the original post about it is:
Levels 10-25: Fairy Wings, Insect Wings
Levels 26-40: Burned Wings, Draconic Wings
Levels 41-50: Bat Wings, Bone Wings, Cherubic Wings, Tech Wings
[/ QUOTE ]
Man.......that .......blows........
I've gotten 2 costume drops from scanner missions- nothing really good from street sweeping, so my hopes of getting lucky in Bloody Bay or Sirens Calll doesn't hold up hope....grrrrrrrrrr
[/ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately I haven't been able to confirm or refute those level ranges. They could be outdated.
My congratulations and thanks to Jay for working so hard on the wings and making them look so awesome. It's a shame that so few people will be able to appreciate them, however.
If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one around, does it make sound? Are these costume pieces really in the game?
*Imagines EvilGeko counting bills and smoking a cigar*
"You bet!"