I find #1 the most reasonable out of the options you listed Tic.
I'm ok with the crash as it is, I've found that if I just toss a taunt out right before and with just one taunt enhancement in CE that I don't lose the aggro.
I have a quesion about Perma-rage. If I have it perma, will i still be hit by the ASO? or will the stacked rages stop that?
The crash still hits you, AND you lose 10 seconds from the next rage cycle. Stacked rage ftl.
Rikti Inquistition: Unexpected. Chief Weapon: Fear and Surprise. Chief WeaponS: Fear and Surprise and Uniforms: Snappy Red. Exclamation: Profanity! Declaration: Restarting.
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My thoughts about the old version of rage are based on not running perma-unstoppable. Believe it or not, you could not run that gimmicky build and still be unkillable in those days.
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Errr I beg to differ. I was herding through Unstoppable crashes back in the perma-Unstoppable days. In fact, I died once due to an Unstoppable crash (back then) ... ever (and that was due to a slow that kept me from overlapping Unstoppable).
Using UY to mitigate Rage's crash back then was annoying because you would get disoriented by a mob hitting you with Brawl (happened quite a bit to me at any rate) and then watch all your toggles (and then life) drop like a stone. Doable ... but I prefer the crash today generally speaking. Much easier to play around.
I would much rather have your #1 suggestion (although I would argue that would make Rage overpowered when compared to Build-Up from other sets).
I don't like the multiple debuff scenario ... it would make Rage basically useless in PvP (and most likely a build killer) and I could think of many PvE instances where you it would hurt worse then the old mag 5 disorient (anything that could stack slows for instance).
Camo: No, stacking Rages does not mitigate the Rage crash.
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My thoughts about the old version of rage are based on not running perma-unstoppable. Believe it or not, you could not run that gimmicky build and still be unkillable in those days.
How would I change Rage's crash for now. Not sure, I could think of a few things that might work.
1) A 800% damage debuff. Enough to basically zero out your damage output for 10-15 seconds. You'd at least still benifit from taunt, and punch/aura-voke and be able to continue doing your job as a tank, but your damage would be nill.
2) A massive recovery debuff. Might be mitigated with CaBs, but I'm thinking there would be some way to reduce how much endurance a CaB could give you while under the influence. I know that there's a MM Poison power that debuffs regen as well as how much health you get from respites or self-heals.
3) Speed, Accuracy, Recharge debuffs...all more easily mitigated by buffs, accolades, other powers, etc.
Basically, the two things that drive me crazy about the Rage crash right now is not being able to taunt, and having some mob (or player in PvP) with a tiny sliver of health left and not being able to plink them down.
Conceptually, a damage/accuracy/recovery/recharge debuff would make a lot of sense. That's pretty crippling in itself, sure you could mitigate parts of them, but very unlikely that you could mitigate all of them at one time...certainly not by yourself.
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Don't forget:
4) Rebalance Super Strength damage and replace Rage with Build Up. Supposedly, Super Strength is balanced around Rage, so this is also a viable solution.
I would accept any of them if they can implement it without breaking more things in the game for months on end. 
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
No Leave it like it is. WHy does every one have to complain. its an 80% damage buff and a 20% acc buff. WHat more could you ask for. Sure you cant fight for 10 seconds. But if youre not completely stupid, you could easily have decided t owait before you jumped into that next mob with Rage blinking. And if you slotted correctly, any group of mobs would be dead by the time it crashes. It's way better than Build Up which only lasts 10 seconds. Be thankful for what you have and quit complainging.
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Be thankful for what you have and quit complainging.
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Which is pretty much what my first post in this thread said, I'm just being nice about it.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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just got a reply.
"It is NOT resisted. This is as intended."
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is it intended that it kicks ice/ in the teeth while the other sets get a poke with a stick?
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Invulnerability gets hammered pretty well. Most of that set's non-S/L mitigation comes from Invincibility. Slotted up and surrounded by enemies ( needs 10 to cap it ) gets you right around 30% Defense. When Rage drops it is a -20% to Defense. The Rage drop causes Invincibility to stop effecting mobs so it stops granting the Defense bonus. This takes you from 30% to -20% Defense. I'm not sure about Ice but if that set gives you 30% with your armors you would still have 10% Defense.
Rage can amount to up to about a -50% Defense Penalty for Invulnerability Tankers.
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I agree and people have to be wondering what I'm doing when I'm in the middle of a group and their dying and I'm just standing around not attacking or anything. Something that allowed me to atleast taunt mobs that were getting squishies in trouble would be acceptable.
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Some sort of very visable crash animation would be nice for PvE. That would probably suck for PvPers though.
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The crash still hits you, AND you lose 10 seconds from the next rage cycle. Stacked rage ftl.
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The crash still hits as far as the ASO and the Def penalty. What you avoid is the -25% endurance crash.
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My thoughts about the old version of rage are based on not running perma-unstoppable. Believe it or not, you could not run that gimmicky build and still be unkillable in those days.
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Errr I beg to differ. I was herding through Unstoppable crashes back in the perma-Unstoppable days. In fact, I died once due to an Unstoppable crash (back then) ... ever (and that was due to a slow that kept me from overlapping Unstoppable).
Using UY to mitigate Rage's crash back then was annoying because you would get disoriented by a mob hitting you with Brawl (happened quite a bit to me at any rate) and then watch all your toggles (and then life) drop like a stone. Doable ... but I prefer the crash today generally speaking. Much easier to play around.
I would much rather have your #1 suggestion (although I would argue that would make Rage overpowered when compared to Build-Up from other sets).
I don't like the multiple debuff scenario ... it would make Rage basically useless in PvP (and most likely a build killer) and I could think of many PvE instances where you it would hurt worse then the old mag 5 disorient (anything that could stack slows for instance).
Camo: No, stacking Rages does not mitigate the Rage crash.
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Multiple debuffs is better than not being able to attack at all.
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"
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The crash still hits you, AND you lose 10 seconds from the next rage cycle. Stacked rage ftl.
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The crash still hits as far as the ASO and the Def penalty. What you avoid is the -25% endurance crash.
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No, you still lose the endurance as well.
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"
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No Leave it like it is. WHy does every one have to complain. its an 80% damage buff and a 20% acc buff. WHat more could you ask for. Sure you cant fight for 10 seconds. But if youre not completely stupid, you could easily have decided t owait before you jumped into that next mob with Rage blinking. And if you slotted correctly, any group of mobs would be dead by the time it crashes. It's way better than Build Up which only lasts 10 seconds. Be thankful for what you have and quit complainging.
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I'm not really complaining, just saying I wish things would have been done differently.
And I'm sorry, but rage lasts for 3 minutes. I don't fire off rage, fight a group of enemies, wait for rage to crash, fire it off again, and then move on to the next batch. I'm constantly moving from group to group and then dealing with the rage crash when it comes. I don't even notice the defense debuff, and the endurance crash will only occasionally get me and drop some toggles if I'm not watching for it. But that 10 seconds of not being able to attack anything really interferes with me playing.
I would personally much rather deal with an even a longer penalty, as long as it didn't completely stop me from playing.
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"
The endurance loss is the least of my worries. It's standing there doing nothing that I hate. ;-)
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
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The crash still hits you, AND you lose 10 seconds from the next rage cycle. Stacked rage ftl.
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The crash still hits as far as the ASO and the Def penalty. What you avoid is the -25% endurance crash.
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No, you still lose the endurance as well.
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I just logged on and tested. I turned on all of my toggles and kept my endurance around 10-20% by using Aid Self while moving. When Rage was stacked and it dropped there was no drop of my blue bar and none of my toggles dropped. When I tried the same thing without stacking it there was a visable drop to the bar and my toggles dropped.
I can't think of a better way to test this but the results seem to show that you can avoid the endurance drop.
I'm ok with the whole not being able to affect anything. More often that not it gives me the only rest I get. Then again I could get along fine without the crash and just rely on EA.
IMO rage is slightly overy powered as is and I play many a */SS or SS/*.
My fix would be simple. SS on its own (ie no pools etc.) with rage is about = to other sets give or take. It is when you can apply rage to powerpools too that you can really min max things to out of hand levels (I.E. tanks with BI chains > scrappers including level modifiers).
Just remove the "effect only self" from the crash and have the crash do -80% damage - 20% accuracy for 10 seconds and have a - 25 endurance crash. Now To balance it rage only effects SS powers. So brawl, boxing, AS, dmg aura's, epic/patrons, etc. are not effected by rage. I think rage balances SS but adding that balance to pools and other outside of SS attacks can be overpowering.
Rage has a 20% Defense Debuff that starts and ends at the same time as the 'Only Affects Self' period. It's very easy to determine when you are more vulnerable.
As for being able to mitigate the End Crash, that sounds like a bug.
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As for being able to mitigate the End Crash, that sounds like a bug.
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*ahem*
DooooOOOOooom!!!one11!
=~.o=
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IMO rage is slightly overy powered as is and I play many a */SS or SS/*.
My fix would be simple. SS on its own (ie no pools etc.) with rage is about = to other sets give or take. It is when you can apply rage to powerpools too that you can really min max things to out of hand levels (I.E. tanks with BI chains > scrappers including level modifiers).
Just remove the "effect only self" from the crash and have the crash do -80% damage - 20% accuracy for 10 seconds and have a - 25 endurance crash. Now To balance it rage only effects SS powers. So brawl, boxing, AS, dmg aura's, epic/patrons, etc. are not effected by rage. I think rage balances SS but adding that balance to pools and other outside of SS attacks can be overpowering.
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That change is effectively a buff to Rage. We'd be going from being able to do zero damage to enemies to being able to do at least 15-20%. It would also allow taunt and auras to function again as well as powers like invincibility contributing it's defense buff or the ice armor's aura that does slow (don't remember if it's CE or Icicles, sorry), etc.
Obviously, Rage doesn't need a buff of any kind. It's already arguabely better than the other secondary build up powers despite the relatively minor crash. All of the QoL changes I wish they'd make to the power would, of course, require the penalties to be balanced in other ways that are at least as severe as the current ones (if not possibly more).
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"
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As for being able to mitigate the End Crash, that sounds like a bug.
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dammit...look what we went and did
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As for being able to mitigate the End Crash, that sounds like a bug.
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There is a "known trick" to defeating any and all End crashes IF you have an end drain power: As your bar is on its way down, pop the end drain power. You have about a 1/2 second window where if you pop the power you still have enough Endurance to use it. It's hard to do and hard to time.
- I do it all the time on my /Elec when Power Surge crashes
- On my /SR I pop blues exactly as the end starts to drop so I don't have to wait for the toggles to recharge
- I know people who have honed this skill to the point of being able to do it successfully every time their tier 9 drops.
I personally don't find it game breaking in the slightest. It takes a lot of practice to be able to do consistently and if you can, more power to you.
What you are describing isn't a bug, its a strategy/tactic/skill.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
BS. It's exploiting a bug. No matter now much skill or cleverness it requires to pull off, it's still an exploit.
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"
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Basically, the two things that drive me crazy about the Rage crash right now is not being able to taunt, and having some mob (or player in PvP) with a tiny sliver of health left and not being able to plink them down.
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I agree and people have to be wondering what I'm doing when I'm in the middle of a group and their dying and I'm just standing around not attacking or anything. Something that allowed me to atleast taunt mobs that were getting squishies in trouble would be acceptable.
I like the debuff idea because I still grab agro atleast.