CoH Fan Art : Are we the ugly step child?
By
Altoholic_Monkey,
Posted on: 2006-11-04 07:34 in Multi-Media Fan Creations
It's the smell. That's gotta be it.
[ QUOTE ]
It's the smell. That's gotta be it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've been busy sweatin it up. Sorry.
I'll go take a shower now... and lock the door. (LOOKIN AT YOU ROWRSIE!... and TA too now that I think about it.)
*click*
Aww... Where's the Luffah!!!!
I guess I don't understand the issue, Jug. It seems to me that Cryptic has given their official blessing to the whole fan art thing. I mean, Doug and Jo and all were walking on eggshells for a while there waiting word on whether they could earn money doing this, and they were given the go-ahead.
And as you pointed out, Cryptic has promoted fan art, both on the website and in the comic. Perhaps the fan art section hasn't been given prominence to your satisfaction, but it certainly looks to me that it's not only been approved of but actively encouraged by Cryptic. Has there been a recent bludgeoning of artists going on that I'm not aware of?
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, but they occasionally censure - that is my beef as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
Censure or censor? Huge difference, there. It's the difference between disapproval and decapitation.
I've certainly had my fair share of posts deleted by moderators, because I'm opinionated and sometimes cranky, but that's to be expected. Mostly, though, they leave me alone. So again I ask: has someone been banned for some reason?
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
If they created an art section, for us to share our fan (meaning of this game)art. If they had a problem with us posting our fan art, why create this section?
Besides that, I have no clue what anyone is talking about...
To law school, away!
--BAS
Scarf_Girl�s Official Kid Brother!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, but they occasionally censure - that is my beef as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
Censure or censor? Huge difference, there. It's the difference between disapproval and decapitation.
I've certainly had my fair share of posts deleted by moderators, because I'm opinionated and sometimes cranky, but that's to be expected. Mostly, though, they leave me alone. So again I ask: has someone been banned for some reason?
[/ QUOTE ]
well, there was that whole issue with Gill/Jomaro's "Cuppajo" tribute peice being left out of the "official" Cuppajo fan art section...
[ QUOTE ]
Last thing we need is some inner circle trying to dictate policy and "speak for us" or trying to dictate policy on the art forums for those that chose to post .
[/ QUOTE ]
...should be repeated, imo.
at the time being we are a community...a small one but one none the less. it seems logical that given the game is/was built upon a medium that is heavily dependant on art they in turn would support such works by their clients...is it a requirement though? no. it is a buisness and for what ever reason they are walking the path that they deem necessary at the current time.
would I like to see them take a more active role in our little corner of the world? you bet...but only to a certain extent. I suppose I would like to see them at least acknowledge the art community and what it provides for the environment on the whole. perhaps put up a small corner that displays the fine work done here that makes peoples lil dreams more real. then update on a regular basis. in short I would like to see them acknowledge the art community artists in some fashion and give their blessing to keep doing what they are doing...
do we need a cabal of people to tell us what to do and not to do? no....in fact I would say that would be the worst thing that could happen. we are fine as we are but a lil nod from the mountain would be nice for the artists that do the spectacular work they do.
word of mouth....the most powerful advertising agent there is, whether good or bad~
...the sword is truth...
~whiteperegrine~
i think part of the problem with fan art and commissions is that no one is really clear which company has the problem: Cryptic, the developers, or NC Soft, the publisher. I think that the people over at Cryptic wouldn't have much of a problem with fan art, since the people in control of CoH are comic fans themselves. That leaves NC Soft and my guess is that the problem lies with them. NC Soft is a big corporation, they need to do what is in the best interests of the company and investors and for whatever reason they think that fan art/commissions are/can be in some way detrimental to those interests. So they keep artists on a tight leash. this is all IMO of course
frankly i don't understand why fan art isn't encouraged, it seems to me that art would be a good way to get new people interested in the game
Goodbye, I guess.
@Lord_Nightblade in Champions/Star Trek Online
nightblade7295@gmail.com if you want to stay in touch
Heck, go one step further. Hire them for a job. How cool would it be for the GvE edition or any future retail box to have a piece of art from Gill, DJ, or Guilhelper on the cover? Maybe even mutliple collectible versions.
[ QUOTE ]
well the moment I have to hear someone claiming that they speak for the art forums is the day I roll my eyes even more so than usual .
Last thing we need is some inner circle trying to dictate policy and "speak for us" or trying to dictate policy on the art forums for those that chose to post .
Im quite happy with drawing what I enjoy drawing without any notice from the Powers that be
And no we are not really a community we are more a very small subset of the player base that draws and an even smaller subset that draws and posts regularly .
anyways IMHO YMMV
[/ QUOTE ]
Bingo.
Also;
How much here is -truly- fan art? What's the ratio of commissioned pieces to self drawn pieces or pieces drawn by friends for friends? Yes. Many people taking commissions play and are -fans- of the game. But I think part of the problem is that a large chunk of art on display is paid for and shared, rather than being created and shared by the fans for no other purpose than their creation and sharing.
This is the first fan-community I've seen where such practices are widespread. I have no problem with it. At all. The quality of work on display here is also the highest I have ever seen on the whole. But the fact people are making money from NCSoft and Cryptics work is when it becomes a grey area in terms of what is acceptable for them to show off and what is not, so as a result, it stopped.
JUst some food for thought.
I noticed earlier that someone mentioned Blizzard's support of fanart as an example of good dev/art community relations. Let me point out that, having played every blizzard game ever created, it took them a LONG time to assess player base interest in art and doing art, and some time after that to create an actively updated fanart section. And that's with the big through line the developed from game to game, always expanding upon the same or a similar player base.
However, I do agree that this game is based on essentially one long-lived art form. (By the way, anybody read Astro City? That comic book is brilliant, and reminds me a lot of our heroes in Paragon City. Similar context.) It is a natural inclination, given this new context based on the old to want to transfer our characters and stories back to a more traditional comic setting. After all, this game's success is predicated upon the fact that we, or many of us, really like comic books. They MEAN something to us (or to me anyway). And that meaning, and love, transfers to this game pretty smoothly. That's the bridge forward. But art, fan art and comissioned art, is the bridge back.
I think that NCSoft/Cryptic Studios should find some way to open up the flow of traffic back and forth a little more. I don't know how, but I know it's a good idea.
That all said, I think this forum is more like a quiet haven for gentler ideas and communication rather than the stupid kids corner. And I like it that way. So, really, I'm riding the fence on this issue.
Amazing how I can type for so long and say nothin' at all.
My only opinion of this is whether it be comissioned or non comissioned pieces..it is free advertising for the game. (Pending of course anything vulgar, i can see how they might have a problem with that) I unfortuneately am not talented in the sketching arts. I spend lots of time rifling though checking all the wonderful work that is done howver. The artists here are truly talented and i think it is a big mistake for whichever company that is making the decision, to not support the artisain community more.
just my 2 cents.
Just for clarification:
Cryptic is the game developer
NCSoft is the publisher
...they are the ones who provided the money for the game to exist. As such they own part of the game and Cryptic is the man behind the curtain running the gears and switches. But NCSoft is the big Wizard...and the big Wizard and its team of lovely men in suits made up the EULA and will send you lovely little notes about it when they think it's been trampled on.
What is it, more than likely, is that they are aware of the inconsistency and are trying to figure out just how to handle it without pissing off a great lot of their customers.
Thus the quandary you see before us:
Doth we place the heathens in irons for creating derivative works of our most blessed City of Heroes and send the artist into martyrdom? Or do we lie quiet and only send threats of action to those we deem the worse offenders.
Aye, theres the rub...my friends.
You suffer the slings and arrow of outrageous fortune...
To allow them to draw or not to draw
That is the NCSoft question
So far it has been done in quiet, with small little request of select few
and they have done so publicly and have felt the rage against said machine.
(Forgive my prose I get dramatic late at night, for the moon she does things to me, secret dark things. (See what I mean))
Obeyest this commandmant, Altoholic Monkey: Thou shalt not eat banana rum cake whilst watching Shakespeare and then post.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Uhhh.... yeah....
Have you seen the latest weekly screenshot on the main page? No? That's because they stopped doing it. The number of screenshots in this forum took a huge dive after that.
Have you seen some of the old weekly screenshots? No? That's because they took the whole section down.
But at least the gaming photographers have this topic. People making videos have no idea where to go. Here? One of the two discussion forums? A lot of folks post on their server formus, too. I think I'm missing two thirds of the videos people make simply because they aren't posted here.
[ QUOTE ]
Obeyest this commandmant, Altoholic Monkey: Thou shalt not eat banana rum cake whilst watching Shakespeare and then post.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wait, there's banana rum cake?
"A ton of the players in CoH don't even know the forums exist, much less the art forum."
oh i love the fourms for fighting with others about slotting and pvp idea but untill about 3 mins ago i had no idea this part of the forum existed 
btw nice work
Thanks Droth. It'd be nice if more people knew about this place.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, but they occasionally censure - that is my beef as well.
[/ QUOTE ]
Censure or censor? Huge difference, there. It's the difference between disapproval and decapitation.
I've certainly had my fair share of posts deleted by moderators, because I'm opinionated and sometimes cranky, but that's to be expected. Mostly, though, they leave me alone. So again I ask: has someone been banned for some reason?
[/ QUOTE ]
well, there was that whole issue with Gill/Jomaro's "Cuppajo" tribute peice being left out of the "official" Cuppajo fan art section...
[/ QUOTE ]
I was waiting for someone to elaborate on this comment, but since no one has... anyone care to share what happened, there?
Was it just a disagreement over ownership of the particular piece, or what?
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
They asked Gill to remove the MMOArt.com signature he puts on all his pieces, he refused, they didn't put it in the gallery.
Again, I think it comes back to the whole issue of other people making money from their property, whether or not the piece was a gift, or not. Sad, but what can you do?
Also more love for video-makers in this thread please. K thx bai.
If all of the commissioned artists in this forum wanted to get around the whole legal fiasco, there's a very simple legal way around it.
All art is done for free, because if its not done for profit, they technically can't legally go after you, and then if a person 'enjoyed' the artwork, and made a donation towards the artist and NOT to the piece, its not associated with the art, but the artist themselves, and therefore shouldn't fall under 'commissioned art'.
So if we as artists simply put up a sign that said "tip" jar, for donations, then I think it could bi-pass a lot of this stuff.
That's me being sneaky.
The thing is, DC...Marvel...they don't tend to go after artists that do commissioned pieces. Unless that person is making millions off of it, or its defaming their characters, usually the large companies leave those artists alone.
Why?
Advertising! They're getting FREE advertising through other artists. And what creator doesn't want to see another person's take on their characters? It's the legal departments that don't want to see it.
The most classic case was a watercolor artist who did large paintings of Batman and Robin in deviant situations. They were shown in a large public gallery, where the artist sold several for many thousands of dollars. Because the characters were shown in a setting not true to who they were, DC went bonkers.
Now... Bruce Timm does a sexy piece of Harley and Ivy together. Does he get sued? No. Why? Well in part, because he worked there, and in part because the sale of that one piece of artwork isn't hurting DC, its bringing more people into their comics. So its a win win situation for both parties.
I really do think that NC's policy on fanart is a bit overboard. If they were sued by Marvel for having the components to make Marvel's characters, they can't claim trademark on pointy belts or mystic symbols. I can understand that the designs, IN GAME, are their property, but c'mon...
I've had many folks look at commissions I've done, and my response is: "Its inspired by a really cool game I play with one of the most awesome character generator systems ever.. and... " I ramble on about CoX. Why? Cuz I like the game.
I like this game. I think the legal issues of fanart are excessive though. And they're starting to make a bad name for themselves in the comic and art communites for trying to go after artists who also love the game.
[ QUOTE ]
well the moment I have to hear someone claiming that they speak for the art forums is the day I roll my eyes even more so than usual .
Last thing we need is some inner circle trying to dictate policy and "speak for us" or trying to dictate policy on the art forums for those that chose to post .
Im quite happy with drawing what I enjoy drawing without any notice from the Powers that be
And no we are not really a community we are more a very small subset of the player base that draws and an even smaller subset that draws and posts regularly .
anyways IMHO YMMV
[/ QUOTE ]
<. .> *hugs Scarf randomly*
/me is in total agreement >.>b
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.