CoH Fan Art : Are we the ugly step child?
By
Altoholic_Monkey,
Posted on: 2006-11-04 07:34 in Multi-Media Fan Creations
I understand what you mean, Juggy.
A ton of the players in CoH don't even know the forums exist, much less the art forum.
We should be associated with the main site. 
Then the main site and all da peeplz get to see our awesome work! I mean we work hard on these. It's kinda sad that after a few people respond to your work, then it kind of dissapears and dies down. It would be cool if a lot of artwork got put into the main website! 
The reason that this forum doesn't get a lot of attention is the same reason that the mods frown upon prices being discussed:
Technically, they're treading a very fine line in even having this forum here.
For all sakes and purposes fan art is often done without the permission of the party that owns the original pieces, and the same goes true for any commisions done for characters in this game. Just read the EULA.
Yet the new <comic company name that shall not be said here> game that was just released actually put out a bulletin requesting fan art.
There's a way around it if a company so desires I gather.
/shrug
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Yet the new <comic company name that shall not be said here> game that was just released actually put out a bulletin requesting fan art.
There's a way around it if a company so desires I gather.
/shrug
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That's not going around it there. Right there, the company is giving explicit permission to create this artwork.
With the art created here, I highly doubt that most people are sending e-mails to Cryptic and/or NCSoft asking for permission to have artwork done, or is having Cryptic and/or NCSoft contacted players out of the blue giving them this permission.
So, if said company says "ok, create all the fan art you want" all is ok? Why wouldn't cryptic do that then? Would it not be so much simpler?
Besides, they HAVE fan art up!! The yHAVE it and - at times - have supported it. My beef is, that it is only when THEY want it.
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(b) Rights in Content. You acknowledge that NC Interactive and its related Game Content Providers (Game Content Providers) have rights in their respective Game Content under copyright and other applicable laws, and that you accept full responsibility and liability for your use of any Game Content in violation of any such rights. NC Interactive and its related Game Content Providers grant to Members the right to use the Game Content for noncommercial, personal purposes, including in connection with creating noncommercial fan fiction or fan web sites regarding the same. However, you acknowledge and agree that you shall not reproduce, prepare derivative works based upon, distribute, publicly perform, or transmit any Game Content for commercial uses without first obtaining the express written consent of NC Interactive.
For clarification purposes only, derivative works based upon Game Content are works which are substantially similar, both in ideas and expression, to the Game Content. Similarity of ideas in the Game Content and derivative works concern similarities between things such as plot, theme, mood, setting, appearance, and character traits. Similarity of expression concerns the total concept and feel of the Game Content and the derivative works. Thus, if a work created by a Member or someone other than NC Interactive (or its related Game Content Providers) is likely to bring to mind the Game Content, then it is likely that such work is a derivative work of the Game Content, and as such may not be used for commercial purposes.
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Paragraph 6, sections a and b of the NCSoft End User License Agreement (EULA), with the bolded part added to show what I mean.
As for why they don't just do that? Perhaps the same reason that Marvel, DC, and every other comic book company so rigorously defends their IPs; if they let them fall into common use, then they lose the trademark. With trademark and copyright laws being so murky, perhaps they're taking the safe approach and just not supporting it?
Then why don't they take it all down? Why do they have Halloween costume contests? Would that not violate the "publicly perform" clause as well?
Seriously, quote the EULA all you want, but anyone who knows law will tell you, if you only enforce something half the time, you'll lose more than half your cases.
Yes it's there, but if you have inconsistant practices then you're leaving yourself open.
Why not just embrace it like so many other gaming companies have?
Actually, any time that they hold a contest where that involves creating costumes or artwork, they're explicitly giving permission to use our character's images.
So, again I ask, why not do that on a regular basis? (pretty sure I said that in the OP)
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The reason that this forum doesn't get a lot of attention is the same reason that the mods frown upon prices being discussed:
Technically, they're treading a very fine line in even having this forum here.
For all sakes and purposes fan art is often done without the permission of the party that owns the original pieces, and the same goes true for any commisions done for characters in this game. Just read the EULA.
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Another reason Blizzard is loved by their players...
Blizzard actually encourages fan art- for profit or not.
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What benefit does it give directly to NCSoft and/or Cryptic to allow people to create derivitives of objects made within the costume creator? It all comes down to the bottom line.
At least with a contest, they can advertise it and get people interested just by virtue of someone wanted a shot at the prizes. But just putting artwork out there just to do it? Isn't that what started the mess with Marvel and their lawsuit in the first place?
That's probably a path that neither company wants to revisit again.
No, that is NOt what started the mess with Marvel in the first place (odd, because there were a lot of things named in the suit, and THAT was not it).
As for benifit, if you do not think that promoting player content in a MMO does not help the game, well man, what can I say. If that is your scope of vision, maybe you are on the same level as these guys.
Personally, I think that by promoting the art work, you promote tha game.. FOR FREE!!!
Yup, even in this day and age of internet and cyber chatting, there is still word of mouth. And as a poster said above, it speaks volumes with costomers... that is why NCSoft is not leading the pack... come to think of it, neither is CoH.
Hmmm, might htere be some connection? Personally, I like the game and the community, but is it too much to ask to suggest more?
Or in my case, is it too much to ask for a decent PM explaining why my posts are being deleted?
This is not like any other MMO game. It is based upon comic books, which are purely visual. Fanart for other games may exist, but it is a more prevalent for CoH simply because of the media it is based upon. They even produce their own comic. It is only natural that if someone is playing a comicbook style character that they are intimately involved with, from costume creation to origin, that they might want to see that character represented in the traditional comic media. Heck, that's why I have entered (unsuccessfully) every contest to have my characters get a cameo in the CoH comic. Given that CoH is inextricably linked to the world of comic books, they should aknowledge this and wholeheartedly embrace the world of fanart. It is part and parcel of the world they have created and should be showcased more often. When was the last time the fanart section of the main site was updated, with the exception of the CuppaJo gallery? It seems that this wonderful piece of the CoH puzzle has almost been swept under the rug and is only brought out when neccassary. I would like to see a link on the homepage that takes you directly to a gallery of fanart submissions that is updated on a regular (at least weekly) basis. Anyone logging onto the site would have their attention diverted to the beautiful work that our artists are producing on a daily basis and could only serve to enhance the feeling that you are truly playing in a comic book reality. Just my two Inf.
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The reason that this forum doesn't get a lot of attention is the same reason that the mods frown upon prices being discussed:
Technically, they're treading a very fine line in even having this forum here.
For all sakes and purposes fan art is often done without the permission of the party that owns the original pieces, and the same goes true for any commisions done for characters in this game. Just read the EULA.
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Another reason Blizzard is loved by their players...
Blizzard actually encourages fan art- for profit or not.
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Given that most of the character races in WoW are pretty ubiquitous, and the rather limited options as far as costume creation goes, that's no real surprise. And unlike most of the big comic-book companies, there's not much money to be made in fantasy (Lord of the Rings notwithstanding). There's not as many characters that people are going to try and copy, and I wouldn't doubt that the obvious few are constantly being purged by Blizzard.
So.. it is BECAUSE this game is of such a cool genre that we can't have support for fanart? Man, why not give it a rest?
Seriously, if you cannot see any inconsistancies in their policy and enforecement, if you cannot see any difference in their level of support verses other companies/games, then we truly are looking at this from totally different perspectives.
/chuckles - no money to be made fomr fantasy art /rolls eyes
To be honest Juggy <'x'> and this is *just* me - I really enjoy the lack of attention >.> Too much attention from the higher ups makes me nervous I guess >.>;
But that is just me <~_~> I just worry that more attention means more moderation - which given how we can sometimes get around here <;_;> would be less fun in my eyes.
>.> At any rate, it doesn't worry me at all. But like I says, just me.
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>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
Heh, guess I wasn't very clear, my bad.
I meant fantasy movies, since other than the LotR trilogy, every other fantasy movie has bombed pretty badly in the box office.
And I don't see any inconsistencies here. When they hold these costume or artwork contests, part of rules are that the images become property of NCSoft (to be used for advertising images and the like). Therefore, they retain control of the images. Fan art, on the other hand, is out of their control (unless they've given permission; in that case, they'll most likely want to see the image themselves or have an accurate description of how the artwork will look before anything is decided).
I still dont understand why they would have a problem with fanart. DC and Marvel encourage it because they see that it enhances interest in their product which can only bolster their profits. NCSoft is doing nothing with our characters. I might see an argument against fanart if they were featuring our characters in a comic or something similar. But to them, our creations are just sitting there. They have no interest in them and do nothing to promote them eslewhere, so why they would have a problem with us exploring our character on our own is beyond me. The only real reason they claim ownership of our characters is so that said characters cannot be sold to or used by another company to be used in a comic or perhaps an animated feature, thus cutting them off from massive potential profit that such a liscense would generate.
<QR>
Perhaps with Lighthouse checking this section because of that avatar thread, he might chime in and say something.
Fan art communities are largely self-organized and self-motivated. You don't NEED to do much to satisfy or encourage them. They love what they do.
From a business standpoint, not much you do will increase the number of fan artists (ask an art teacher how to "force" a student to express him/herself) nor will it increase much involvement in the game. Prizes become an expenditure that doesn't return back an investment. Recognition (official links) becomes a chore where each issue of "they didn't link to me" becomes a public relations issue.
So, maybe they think that its best for us to develop our own leadership, our own community, and our own peer rewards instead...
Ok, but they occasionally censure - that is my beef as well.
I'll buy that.
Then why not create our own leadership as Chase has stated? And to comment on the EULA... as I read it, it's not to reproduce any game content, which I read as making videos or the like from the game itself, not fan art.
I could be wrong, and I might be... but hey, everything's up for interpretation.
But I agree that we as an art community, and we ARE a community, should organize as a united base and have these guys listen up. We have a lot of talent on these forums, and I think of myself as pretty handy with the pencil myself, and it should be recognized more.
My two cents...
Back to the drawing table... I have fan art to make...
Jim
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well the moment I have to hear someone claiming that they speak for the art forums is the day I roll my eyes even more so than usual .
Last thing we need is some inner circle trying to dictate policy and "speak for us" or trying to dictate policy on the art forums for those that chose to post .
Im quite happy with drawing what I enjoy drawing without any notice from the Powers that be
And no we are not really a community we are more a very small subset of the player base that draws and an even smaller subset that draws and posts regularly .
anyways IMHO YMMV
Ok, I have been thinking about this for some time now. I really enjoy this forum and have loved seeing it grow. I think in the last 6 months the surfers and posts have doubled. we've got a really nice community going now (IMHO). But I have to ask; why?
Other than the Cuppa-Fan Art that was posted a month back, the official site has forgotten about us. Other than when a new mod needs an avatar, we are neglected.
It all too often feels like this forum has to operate at a hush. That we have to wisper to each other about the great stuff that is happeneing in here. For some reason it feels like if there is too much joy in here, the parents will walk in and shut us down.
Ok, so maybe that vibe is just me - but I doubt it. What I have to ask is; why? Why doesn't CoH support fan art more? Why are there no contests? No official rewards? Why not set up a gallery and have others enjoy our work?
The truth is, I think a lot of us play this game because we want to play what we see in the comics (or for some, what they see in their heads). ART, is a BIG part of that.
I hope this is not deleted (as three of my previous posts have been over the last day) and I sincerly hope that an active discussion IN this forum ABOUT this forum will help the mods understand that this is a real issue.
That we are proud of our art, and we wish they were too.
-Juggy