Nice post. 5 stars. It is about time we had this post, too, in my opinion. YAY!
*****
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
Well-said. Context defines most of the meaning of every non-trivial word used in any discussion.
Just unfortunate that those who need to read this, won't.
This guide is unnecessary.
Actually, while I agree in general, I don't think that anyone who insists on misinterpreting 'necessary' will (a) read or (b) be swayed by this.
Also, there are some serious flaws in the basic premises. For example - you seem to believe that "more effective" = "more fun". Consider the case of Speed Boost. It's obviously "more effective" to keep the entire team boosted. However, many a /kin will not obsessively keep everyone boosted, because it's not as fun. Some folks refuse SB. Apparently, being more effective is not fun for them.
Ditto the idea that there is no "fun cap". Some folks like to go through the game at a certain pace. While you could tweak their build and speed things up for them, they wouldn't necessarily (hah) have more fun that way.
Finally, a guide for a single word is extravagant. What's next?
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I don't think that anyone who insists on misinterpreting 'necessary' will (a) read or (b) be swayed by this.
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The majority of the people who post on the forums about things for which there's a guide never look at the guide, certainly not before they post. It may be true that for this reason, guides have diminished value. It doesn't apply specially, here.
However, unlike most guides, this guide's purpose is not so much one of preemptive information as it is, to have something ready-to-hand to beat people over the head with when they persist in addressing nonissues in threads.
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You seem to believe that "more effective" = "more fun". Consider the case of Speed Boost. It's obviously "more effective" to keep the entire team boosted. However, many a /kin will not obsessively keep everyone boosted, because it's not as fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
No I said they were closely related, not that they're identical. Since this isn't a guide about how, precisely, to measure standard player satisfaction with a power-- a I thing that is, by the way, remarkably standard from person to person, in practice-- I didn't go into that in detail, but indeed it's a system of those two tests: effective and fun.
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Some folks refuse SB. Apparently, being more effective is not fun for them.
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Ignorance and incompetence are barriers to both progress and fun, it's true. This also isn't a guide about why you should always accept SB. ^_^
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Ditto the idea that there is no "fun cap".
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This also isn't a guide to hedonism. ^_^
But more seriously, the assumptions I make that you call "serious flaws in the basic premises," are not meant to establish a procrustean bed into which every poster fits. They are, however, well-founded guidelines to default assumptions about what kind of info posters are looking for. When posters are looking for something besides the kind of thing I suggest they are, it behooves them to say so.
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Finally, a guide for a single word is extravagant. What's next?
[/ QUOTE ]
I wrote a guide to walking, once, so that's already out there.
I'm considering a guide to why the term "nerf-herder" is inherently absurd.
Obviously, too, a guide to how to indicate what kind of answer you want when you ask a question might be useful. ^_^
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This guide is unnecessary.
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ZING! 
Choosing a Controller V2 | Splattrollers | Plant/Rad | Fire/Storm | Mind/Emp & Mind/Rad
Weird Controller Powers | Conf & XP/Time | Controller Damage
Being a Healer | The word Necessary | Natural Concept Characters
The only problem I have with this post is that you have essentially explained why the answer to the question "Is power X necessary?" should be "Yes" for the most common powers used in that question as X.
This effectively nullifies the point of the post as there is then no need to ask the question in the first place. The answer is always "Yes", therefore anyone asking the question has either been mislead, or he is confused. It should not have even been asked.
It's my understanding that usually the reason readers of the board post that particular question is that they wish to discuss whether or not the answer may NOT be "Yes", and under what conditions that may be. That is, one would not ask "Is power X necessary?" unless someone had already told you that power X was necessary. Otherwise, the question would be, "What powers are necessary?"
Thus, it has always been my belief that the proper answer to the question is "Yes... and no." Yes, power X does provide the greatest amount of effectiveness and "fun", however if you are considering not taking it, you may, with the understanding that it will be less effective and "fun".
I also consider it a good idea, under such circumstances, to offer alternative strategies which could be used if you do not take the power. It's not really specifically an answer to the question, but it is informative, and better than just debating the answer to a question that we already know the answer to.
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The only problem I have with this post is that you have essentially explained why the answer to the question "Is power X necessary?" should be "Yes" for the most common powers used in that question as X.
This effectively nullifies the point of the post as there is then no need to ask the question in the first place. The answer is always "Yes",
[/ QUOTE ]
Er, sorry, I can't figure out how you got that out of what I wrote. On the contrary, I said quite explicitly that it's legitimate to answer "No," or disagree with other posters' "yes" responses.
Also, in case you missed it, I talked about such questions in the context of particular builds. Not at all something to which the answer is always "yes."
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It's my understanding that usually the reason readers of the board post that particular question is that they wish to discuss whether or not the answer may NOT be "Yes", and under what conditions that may be.
[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps I should have lavished more criticism on folks for not asking what they meant to ask. But my remarks already do go to the group who has a genuine interest in whether or not best builds include a given power.
Of course, if somebody is intentionally posing such a question as a way of objecting to the idea that certain powers are-- fact of life-- needed or necessary (a small group, but yes this kind of poster exists), those folks deserve a double helping of scorn. They're both asking the question clumsily, *and* misdirecting discussion into the vapid area of: "is it theoretically possible for somebody to build/enjoy a character without power X."
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that the proper answer to the question is "Yes... and no." Yes, power X does provide the greatest amount of effectiveness and "fun", however if you are considering not taking it, you may, with the understanding that it will be less effective and "fun".
[/ QUOTE ]
That kind of remark can be had without the circumlocution of "yes... and no," and without pointing out the irrelevant and obvious: "You can do anything you want, but..." It's alot like starting every statement with "This is just my opinion, but..." It's at best confusing, at worst, intentional misinformation. (As when I say: "It's only my opinion that you can drown in water." ... so, you know, do whatever your first impluse is, when it comes to water safety.)
Everyone's considering taking and not taking every power (except the four I mention). That's already a given, or if it's not, we expect a poster to say "I intend to have gale and bonfire six slotted as soon as possible, regardless. Aside from that... do I need X?"
What I object to is the misinformation front that pushes nonsense on people to the effect that they 'can' be just as happy with whatever build they like. I 'can' be happy with a kick in the rear, if I set my mind to it, but that doesn't mean there's suddenly no meaningful way to answer a question about whether one should seek out rear-kickings. What's the best way to fix my car? The answer "Whichever way you think you'll enjoy fixing your car," is worse than useless.
If somebody wants to come to a forum and ask a question: "What controller is the noisiest?" I can answer that question-- in fact, I have. (I can't remember what I decided-- earth/kinetics, I think.)
Until they ask a more specific question, though, questions about whether certain powers are "needed" or "necessary," have only one proper response; a discussion of how [effective x fun] (usually with the emphasis on effective) the power actually is. Nor is this is an especially subjective matter. People need to stop giving out bad information about whether certain powers are effective under cover of the flimsy excuse that they were pointing out that other things are theoretically possible-- because that's not what any sincere poster is asking.
Choosing a Controller V2 | Splattrollers | Plant/Rad | Fire/Storm | Mind/Emp & Mind/Rad
Weird Controller Powers | Conf & XP/Time | Controller Damage
Being a Healer | The word Necessary | Natural Concept Characters
Fun can't really be measured, so it shouldn't really be brought up in any guide specifically one that is talking about getting rid of useless information in answers.
As far as effectiveness, it also varies. Some people don't find snipes effective, other people do. Some attacks are nice if you team a lot and bad if you only solo (re: sb).
Then there's also the speed vs safety when it comes to efficiency.
There's so many factors in determining what is or is not efficient that generally speaking, you can't really quantize that either because different players prefer different kinds of effiencies, some are perfectly happy sacrificing a bit of killing speed for extra safety, others throw caution to the wayside and mow through things with reckless abandon. These preferences can easily change a build alot (such as taking more attacks vs defencive abilities/heals) but can both yield the same average xp/hour (factoring in debt on the more reckless player).
Whether or not something is needed as measured by your efficiency and fun scale more or less varies completely from player to player.
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Fun can't really be measured, so it shouldn't really be brought up in any guide specifically one that is talking about getting rid of useless information in answers.
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That's just not true; your objection is 'really' only that it can't be measured to an arbitrary degree of precision, and/or that it's not *identical* with respect to particular powers, from person to person. But neither ultraprecision nor universality are required for a gague of a power's fun to be useful in this situation.
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As far as effectiveness, it also varies. Some people don't find snipes effective, other people do.
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People can also 'find' the world to be flat, but this does not make the degree to which the world is actually flat 'vary.'
Neither fun nor effectiveness of a particular power in a particular build are the wildly subjective matters that people like to make them out to be.
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Whether or not something is needed as measured by your efficiency and fun scale more or less varies completely from player to player.
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No.
First of all, again, I'm not talking about [efficiency x fun] across all powers, in general, with no other assumptions. I'm talking about within a specific build. Even across all powers in general, [eff x fun] definitely does not "vary completely from player to player."
But once you're talking about a precise build, which is what's in question here, as it usually is in the kind of thread this guide addresses, it becomes exactly a question of whether the power fits above or below a cut-off point in a list of powers ranked highest to lowest in [E x F] (with adjustments sometimes needing to be made based on power synergy gained or lost from things that drop off the bottom of the list), a predetermined % of which absolutely cannot be fit into the build. That's a question on which there is, practically speaking, NO wiggle room, assuming everyone understands the power clearly-- which is why of course there's often legitimate debate over what powers do, when someone asks a question like this.
Whether players are interested in ExF varies a *bit* from player to player, generally least of all among people new to the game-- the people most likely to be asking such questions in the first place. (It really only drops in importance in a minority of severe alt-itis sufferers.) So the assumption that that's the interest is extremely useful and proper; anyone interested in something else will, and should, have to ask a more specific question.
Choosing a Controller V2 | Splattrollers | Plant/Rad | Fire/Storm | Mind/Emp & Mind/Rad
Weird Controller Powers | Conf & XP/Time | Controller Damage
Being a Healer | The word Necessary | Natural Concept Characters
No doubt you got inspired to write this because of the the "Is Hasten Necessary?" and "Is Stamina Necessary?" etc threads...
I hope you were just bored at work or something when you wrote this...
I admire the attempt to gain some consistancy, but sadly it will never happen.
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The only problem I have with this post is that you have essentially explained why the answer to the question "Is power X necessary?" should be "Yes" for the most common powers used in that question as X.
This effectively nullifies the point of the post as there is then no need to ask the question in the first place. The answer is always "Yes",
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Er, sorry, I can't figure out how you got that out of what I wrote. On the contrary, I said quite explicitly that it's legitimate to answer "No," or disagree with other posters' "yes" responses.
Also, in case you missed it, I talked about such questions in the context of particular builds. Not at all something to which the answer is always "yes."
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I missed that. Perhaps I did misunderstand. However, you said yourself, "[there are] many powers regarding which the answer will be 'yes'". I am assuming because of the content of your argument that for the most likely powers about which the question would be asked, you believe the answer would be "yes".
More specifically, the most common powers about which the question is asked, by your own admission, are Hasten and Stamina. I would assume that you believe those to fit into the category of those for whom the answer should be "yes". There may be exceptions in the case of certain specific builds, and it may be possible to get around the lack of Stamina should you choose not to take it, despite a loss of effectiveness, but you dismiss those exceptions when the question is asked in a general sense.
I should also add that it is NOT always irrelevant and obvious to point out "You can do whatever you want", as in many cases doing whatever you want may not lead to the results you want. To use your own example, it is a totally different thing to say that "some people find the world to be flat", compared to "some people find that snipes are not effective". That is an invalid comparison. If you actually go and measure the world, you will actually find it is not flat. On the other hand, if you are terrible with sniper attacks, and cannot master subtle strategies such as timing the build up to correspond to the space between foes' shots, then measuring the number of times you are successful with a sniper shot will support your subjective belief that snipes are not effective for you.
Since this is a learned skill and not one that is natural to all players, and a certain amount of natural talent is involved, I don't think you can truthfully say that sniper attacks are always going to be effective, across all players of the game. And what a player finds "fun" is likely to be even more subjective.
I was going to reply but A: Jade already noted what I was going to point out and B: you skipped the main point and majority of my post.
Being that speed vs safety can yield the same effeciency/effectiveness in terms of xp/hour on average, but what a particular player will want in a speed vs safety aspect is completly subjective to that player.
Enantiodromos is my favorite linguist. You really can't get anything by him!
*applause* for another great guide.
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Enantiodromos is my favorite linguist. You really can't get anything by him!
*applause* for another great guide.
[/ QUOTE ]
He is quite the cunning linguist... I think that he was metagaming the forum when he wrote this--writing a guide designed to generate a thread that could serve as a testament to the hypothesis that for each and every possible position on any topic whatsoever, there are multiple forum posters who will take up arms in opposition to that position.
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I hope you were just bored at work or something when you wrote this...
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Dang, I'm so transparent.
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He is quite the cunning linguist... I think that he was metagaming the forum when he wrote this--writing a guide designed to generate a thread that could serve as a testament to the hypothesis that for each and every possible position on any topic whatsoever, there are multiple forum posters who will take up arms in opposition to that position.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm almost that clever. Which is braggable.
Choosing a Controller V2 | Splattrollers | Plant/Rad | Fire/Storm | Mind/Emp & Mind/Rad
Weird Controller Powers | Conf & XP/Time | Controller Damage
Being a Healer | The word Necessary | Natural Concept Characters
[ QUOTE ]
More specifically, the most common powers about which the question is asked, by your own admission, are Hasten and Stamina. I would assume that you believe those to fit into the category of those for whom the answer should be "yes". There may be exceptions in the case of certain specific builds...
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For the third time, including the time I said it to begin with:
We're already talking about particular builds. The remarks in this guide obviously, and explicitly, don't apply to a question without the context of a specific build. People aren't often asking that question, and there's no shortage of promptly asking them what build they have in mind (compared to the grinding lack of common sense it takes to assume anyone is seriously asking the question "is it theoretically possible to build a character without hasten?") on the occasions when they do.
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I should also add that it is NOT always irrelevant and obvious to point out "You can do whatever you want", as in many cases doing whatever you want may not lead to the results you want.
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Not sure if I'm following. I think I said it's at *best* irrelevant. Or I should have.
But you're right, this effluvial idea that "You can do whatever you want," is sometimes worse than irrelevant-- it's downright bad advice. I'm against advice like that.
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To use your own example, it is a totally different thing to say that "some people find the world to be flat", compared to "some people find that snipes are not effective". That is an invalid comparison. If you actually go and measure the world, you will actually find it is not flat. On the other hand, if you are terrible with sniper attacks, and cannot master subtle strategies such as timing the build up to correspond to the space between foes' shots, then measuring the number of times you are successful with a sniper shot will support your subjective belief that snipes are not effective for you.
[/ QUOTE ]
And if you're terrible at measuring the world, you may incorrectly deduce the world is flat. In fact, even if you're amazingly good at it, you may come to the wrong conclusion. But us crazies who care about good information still force the truth on people, fascists that we are-- and somehow adapting to a world shape that really is rather counter-intuitive just isn't that painful for most people.
Snipes are X amount effective, and have a learning curve that simply doesn't vary so wildly from the learning curves of other powers in realistic combat contexts to make this objection to my comparison valid, especially considering that very little in the game is *painfully* hard to learn to do except maybe herd with Telekinesis and mitigate with Dimension Shift (which are not overwhelmingly effective things anyway), so with a tiny number of exceptions people just won't have any trouble rising to the challenge of a the kind of *slightly* steeper learning curve you get in CoH.
There are certainly lots of powers that are better than snipe in certain builds, and I can readily imagine not having the power in some builds that could have it. Snipe, just FYI, does not make my list of powers that are actually likely to come into question this way.
Choosing a Controller V2 | Splattrollers | Plant/Rad | Fire/Storm | Mind/Emp & Mind/Rad
Weird Controller Powers | Conf & XP/Time | Controller Damage
Being a Healer | The word Necessary | Natural Concept Characters
Hahahahaha!! Best guide ever! I hope it's been added to the guide to guides somewhere.
The definition of "necessary," from Dictionary.com:
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1. being essential, indispensable, or requisite: a necessary part of the motor.
2. happening or existing by necessity: a necessary change in our plans.
3. acting or proceeding from compulsion or necessity; not free; involuntary: a necessary agent.
4. Logic. a. (of a proposition) such that a denial of it involves a self-contradiction.
b. (of an inference or argument) such that its conclusion cannot be false if its supporting premises are true.
c. (of a condition) such that it must exist if a given event is to occur or a given thing is to exist.
[/ QUOTE ]
So I think you have it backward. If the question "is this power necessary" refers to one of your four listed powers that are required, then the answer is "yes."
If the question "is this power necessary" refers to any other power, then the answer is "no."
The guide should not tell the reader how to interpret the misused word "necessary," it should be to the person asking the question to use a different word. How about instead of "is Hasten necessary," you ask "should I take Hasten?" That is, after all, what your guide seems to suggest is actually being asked.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
Words and you
In this FAQ I discuss the way to attempt to redefine a word because you feel the need to use it even though it actually has no real application, no matter what the context may be.
I could be a total [censored] and go through the whole thing, but I believe the gist has been delivered and don't feel the urge to belabor the point.
[ QUOTE ]
What "Necessary" means in-context
People asking whether certain powers are necessary are asking their question in a community of relative experts because they're interested in an informed consensus opinion on how useful a power as far as two closely related goals go: making progress (experience-wise), and having fun.
Since "make progress and have fun" is the default assumed goal of every player-- you know, unless they say something otherwise, this is how all "necessary" and "needed" questions should be answered by anyone who is *not* a troll.
Simple rule: With re: to builds, "necessary" means "most effective/fun."
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So, by "Necessary" you mean "This is not the word that applies here"?
I'm going to give this a shot, and see if there isn't already a word or phrase without a contradictory meaning which could be used.
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What "Better Numbers" means in-context
People asking if certain powers have better numbers than others are asking their question in a community of relative experts because they're interested in an informed consensus opinion on how useful a power as far as two closely related goals go: making progress (experience-wise), and having fun.
Since "make progress and have fun" is the default assumed goal of every player-- you know, unless they say something otherwise, this is how all "Does this have better numbers" questions should be answered.
Simple rule: With re: to builds, "has the best numbers" means "most effective."
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey, look. I found one.
Call me a troll if you want, but "Necessary" is not necessary in any sense of the word necessary. One of the first two powers out of your primary, that's necessary, Quick recovery out of regen, not necessary, but it is a very good idea to take it.
Here's a simple point, if you need to write an FAQ to explain what you mean when you say a word, odds are you're using the word wrong.
Just be proud, say "I am a numbers [censored]" "I must have the biggest numbers" "I love numbers" "I <3 numbar!" what ever, but for the love of the language, this is like coming around with a "But in this context guilty actually means innocent".
At least pick a word that FITS not a word that is on the entire opposite end of the spectrum. Or here, I came up with another phrase for you:
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What "Necessary to have the best build" means in-context
People asking whether certain powers are"Necessary to have the best build" are asking their question in a community of relative experts because they're interested in an informed consensus opinion on how useful a power as far as two closely related goals go: making progress (experience-wise), and having fun.
Since "make progress and have fun" is the default assumed goal of every player-- you know, unless they say something otherwise, this is how all "necessary to have the best build" and "needed to have the best build" questions should be answered by anyone.
Simple rule: With re: to builds, "necessary to have the best build" means "most effective."
[/ QUOTE ]
There, you can even squeak in your beloved necessary and still not be attempting to smother a language in it's sleep.
*EEEK* the pain of typing 23 more characters, my hands, they are crippled, there is nothing more I can do, oh the horrible horrible pain, I cannot help but continue to describe the pain, it causes me such discomfort to type those extra characters to actually explain my question.
Or not.
I'm not sure why I'm attempting, because I'm fairly sure I've had this exact same argument with you a long time ago, but I refuse to give up, I have the language you're using on my side.
Edit: When being a grammar nazi, always spell check.
Edit's revenge: When spellchecking, always besure you didn't screw up the formating.
Thanks Kias. I didn't want to be quite so snarky about it, but you are exactly right. The problem does not lie with the answers to the question. If the question asked is "Is it necessary" and the answer is "No, you can do X, Y, and Z instead," then the answer is perfectly valid. If the question intended is "would you recommend taking it," then that's how the question should be asked.
Words have meanings, and you can't expect people to understand what you meant when you didn't actually say what you meant.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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Thanks Kias. I didn't want to be quite so snarky about it, but you are exactly right.
[/ QUOTE ]
This would be a great time to mention Kais' industrial snark suppliers, if they existed.
I'm not entirely sure what it is, but something has me up in arms over the same stupid little things that just have refused to die despite lacking food, water, air or justification. Though I guess states gave a presentation, not a speach, I'll have to fix that.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To use your own example, it is a totally different thing to say that "some people find the world to be flat", compared to "some people find that snipes are not effective". That is an invalid comparison. If you actually go and measure the world, you will actually find it is not flat. On the other hand, if you are terrible with sniper attacks, and cannot master subtle strategies such as timing the build up to correspond to the space between foes' shots, then measuring the number of times you are successful with a sniper shot will support your subjective belief that snipes are not effective for you.
[/ QUOTE ]
And if you're terrible at measuring the world, you may incorrectly deduce the world is flat. In fact, even if you're amazingly good at it, you may come to the wrong conclusion. But us crazies who care about good information still force the truth on people, fascists that we are-- and somehow adapting to a world shape that really is rather counter-intuitive just isn't that painful for most people.
Snipes are X amount effective, and have a learning curve that simply doesn't vary so wildly from the learning curves of other powers in realistic combat contexts to make this objection to my comparison valid, especially considering that very little in the game is *painfully* hard to learn to do except maybe herd with Telekinesis and mitigate with Dimension Shift (which are not overwhelmingly effective things anyway), so with a tiny number of exceptions people just won't have any trouble rising to the challenge of a the kind of *slightly* steeper learning curve you get in CoH.
There are certainly lots of powers that are better than snipe in certain builds, and I can readily imagine not having the power in some builds that could have it. Snipe, just FYI, does not make my list of powers that are actually likely to come into question this way.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is another argument that bothered me and I can't resist pointing out the errors in your logic on this subject, even if it is somewhat tangential to the main point of the original post.
The person who said this was an invalid comparison was completey correct.
The Earth is not flat. Period. There is no room for discussion on the subject. If you "find" that the Earth is flat, you are in error.
Snipes can be effective. There are many other criteria, however, that must be met beyond having the snipe in your power selection. It is not given that because you have a snipe, the snipe will be effective.
Whether a snipe is effective or not is subjective. Whether the Earth is flat or not is objective.
I will again recommend Dictionary.com if you are not familiar with the difference between objective reality and subjective reality.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
I rest my case. Well played Enant. Well played...
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Fun can't really be measured, so it shouldn't really be brought up in any guide specifically one that is talking about getting rid of useless information in answers.
[/ QUOTE ]
You lost me there. For years the there has been a standard measure of fun. 
Help make America #1 in Broadband: www.broadband.gov
Take the survey/test (like a Census for Broadband): http://broadband.gov/qualitytest/about/
[ QUOTE ]
I rest my case. Well played Enant. Well played...
[/ QUOTE ]
Meh, I read your post before typing anything of my own.
I had this exact argument with him in a 'Stamina is necessary' thread about a year ago, I've had this exact argument with a few others since then. I now have a post to refer them to rather than waste my time typing that all out again. Plus I was waiting for my MP3 player to recharge.
"Necessary" Powers
In this FAQ I discuss the words "Necessary" and "Need" with respect to City of Heroes character builds.
Why this FAQ?
The most commonly asked kind of question on the forums is of the form: "Do I need..." such-and-such a power, or is such-and-such power "... necessary?"
Communication always requires interpretation and context to convey meaning. This is not a reminder to explain yourself carefully-- it's an absolute observation about communication. Context and interpretation are critical for anyone to communicate even the simplest idea.
Bad faith posters frequently jump on such questions with misinformation-- they take it as an opportunity to brag about how much they enjoy (for whatever idiosyncratic reason) a build without such-and-such a power.
This guide is for the rectification of such posters' attitudes, because they're not being useful.
"Necessary" not meaning "Only Possible"
When somebody asks "Is such-and-such power necessary," or "Do I need such-and-such a power," they are not asking:
How do I know this?
Consider that there are only four powers on any given character that cannot be excluded from the build:
And nobody ever starts threads to ask if it's necessary to take one of these four powers. (75% of all such questions pertain to Hasten and Stamina).
People asking these kinds of questions are not confused as to whether they can in theory avoid choosing certain powers. They recognize that it's possible to put together even TERRIBLE builds-- which is something they're trying to AVOID, which is why they asked.
People sane enough to seek advice from others are also not confused about the fact that different people are prone to liking different things. They recognize it's possible for somebody to call fun a TERRIBLY un-fun build-- something trying to AVOID building, which is why they asked.
This is all rudimentary context that must be used when interpreting questions about what powers are necessary or needed.
Anyone who answers a question about whether such-and-such a power is necessary, as though they were answering the question "Is it theoretically possible to build a character without this power," is a Troll.
Anyone who answers the question as though they were answering "Does anyone out there have fun in the game without such-and-such a power," is a Troll.
What "Necessary" means in-context
People asking whether certain powers are necessary are asking their question in a community of relative experts because they're interested in an informed consensus opinion on how useful a power as far as two closely related goals go: making progress (experience-wise), and having fun.
Since "make progress and have fun" is the default assumed goal of every player-- you know, unless they say something otherwise, this is how all "necessary" and "needed" questions should be answered by anyone who is *not* a troll.
Simple rule: With re: to builds, "necessary" means "most effective/fun."
Build Choices: Not all powers are created equal
Across a to-40 build, there are far more powers to choose from than you can fit in a character's build. You can't take more than 20 out of the 52 possible (after primary, secondary not including inherent or prestige powers).
Not all powers are created equal for fun/progress; indeed some powers facilitate FAR more fun/progress than others.
Viewing the possibilities of a build from this PoV, at *least* 32 possible powers have to be excluded from the to-40 build.
At least a few of those exclusions can be made purely on the basis of style, and 20 will be excluded by the limitation of 4 power pools. But the better part of 12 powers will remain to be excluded by the player. Picking those 12, as well as the exclusion of the other 5-8 power pools, is where the "what's most fun/useful" comes in.
Under these circumstances, there *are* right and wrong answers to which of these powers and pools are at the top or bottom of a list in ranked on effectiveness/fun.
Hence, there are right and wrong answers to the question "Is such-and-such a power necessary," including many powers re: which the answer will be "yes."
Relative vs. Absolute
If you're still struggling with this concept, it may also be useful to remember this rule of thumb: People who like to have fun, like to have *more* fun.
IOW, people don't have an enjoyment cap. If a build choice will make their character more effective/fun, they *should* make that choice.
Traditional Form of Argument
The traditional form of this argument from good faith posters has always been:
"Well, you don't *need* anything, but you're going to be a lot happier with your character if you take such-and-such a power in this build."
That's what people asking the question wanted to know.
It is also sometimes legitimate to say:
"No, you can be as effective and have as much fun as you could hope to be, under this build, without that power, or so nearly so, the difference is negligible."
It's also legitimate to have a genuine difference of opinion with somebody in a thread:
"Pilcrow is a nutcase-- you should never take deceive; it steals XP, does no damage, and gets you killed instantly. Don't take it!"
It is NOT legitimate (at least, not without extensive explanation) to answer this question with remarks like:
"I have fun without the power."
"I can still do something, without the power."
"I can get 'the job' done without the power."
"You're stupid if you don't take that power."
"I would kick you if you didn't have that power."
Contemporary Form of Argument
From now on, feel free to Substitute:
"Yes, such-and-such a power is necessary in this build. (See also 'Guide to the word Necessary.')"
for the deprecated:
"Well, you don't *need* anything, but you're going to be a lot happier with your character if you take such-and-such a power in this build."
Choosing a Controller V2 | Splattrollers | Plant/Rad | Fire/Storm | Mind/Emp & Mind/Rad
Weird Controller Powers | Conf & XP/Time | Controller Damage
Being a Healer | The word Necessary | Natural Concept Characters