Both involve clicking a button. I fail to see how one is a skill and the other is not.
If you are referring to Placate being a "skill" of your toon when compared to using a BF, then I kind of see your point.
However I took it that the previous poster was claiming that a player using Placate was skill while someone using a BF was not. That's where I fail to see the distinction...still.
I just tested a Bane Spiders Placate 5 times.
I agroed the Bane and got it to keep attacking me while another player was standing right next to him and me.
Each time the Bane Placated me, I was unable to target him, yet the player next to me was able to target him.
This proves that there already exists in the game code that enables Placate to work on just a single target and not everyone around. So we are indeed being deceived and denied a fix that exists for our power which our AT and DPS is heavily based upon.
Does anyone have a link to a post from a Dev stating that Placate was changed because they didnt know how to fix it to only work on a single target or any quotes from them back when Placate was changed?
Also there is a new IO that gives a Placate effect for anyone who has a Sleep power to slot it in. I wonder if those who slot it will get a working version of Placate. If they do not, im sure the Devs will finally be motivated to fix Placate for then it wont be just Stalkers asking for a fix.
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Both involve clicking a button. I fail to see how one is a skill and the other is not.
If you are referring to Placate being a "skill" of your toon when compared to using a BF, then I kind of see your point.
However I took it that the previous poster was claiming that a player using Placate was skill while someone using a BF was not. That's where I fail to see the distinction...still.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, I see how you took it now. As far as I can see, it was not intended to be taken that way. The distinction between the two is that placate roots you and has an activation time as where a BF does not, it is instant action and does not root.
But yes, having skill to know when to use them is indeed a skill.
It always used to work on single targets and single targets alone.
Problem is, it would provide us with a level of Stealth that was equal to Hide's stealth value, and thus, people without perception would experience a pseudo-Placate, in that they could no longer attack the Stalker. The change to Placate merely nerfed the level of Stealth it gave in PvP -- it now gives Stealth-values.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
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I just tested a Bane Spiders Placate 5 times.
I agroed the Bane and got it to keep attacking me while another player was standing right next to him and me.
Each time the Bane Placated me, I was unable to target him, yet the player next to me was able to target him.
This proves that there already exists in the game code that enables Placate to work on just a single target and not everyone around. So we are indeed being deceived and denied a fix that exists for our power which our AT and DPS is heavily based upon.
Does anyone have a link to a post from a Dev stating that Placate was changed because they didnt know how to fix it to only work on a single target or any quotes from them back when Placate was changed?
Also there is a new IO that gives a Placate effect for anyone who has a Sleep power to slot it in. I wonder if those who slot it will get a working version of Placate. If they do not, im sure the Devs will finally be motivated to fix Placate for then it wont be just Stalkers asking for a fix.
[/ QUOTE ]
Interesting.
I remember seeing a post made by 'Posi?' saying that Stalkers would be fixed, but the were not on the priority list. Maybe this "fix" is the new and *intended* Placate we are seeing on Bane Scouts. If this is the case, then I would be completely happy with Stalkers outside the lack of Damage -A.S.
Them not knowing how to fix it was merely my own (and a few others) interpretation of something we had read. Those were not anyones exact words.
It was one of those, "So what you really meant to say is, you don't know how to fix it."
But the exact link to this is unknown by me. It may not even exist anymore, this happened a very long time ago.
Ok. Well AC says Placate as of now gives Stealth-values. Yet that was changed back when many Heroes did not know how to counter stalkers or spec for +perception.
But we all know now that a Stalker running just Hide is almost certain to be seen by regular hero PVPers these days. They have the advantage to buy IR Goggles in Sirens, stacked CM buffs, and the new perception IO will be added in issue 11 so our Placate should be restored to give the Hide level of stealth with the Defense bonus when used.
I don't have any toons with Invisibility, or know anyone else with it, so someone please tell me..
Invisibility > Hide ?
So if this is only PvP where placate is bugged... then we are unbalanced. Hmm.
To be honest, I say that Placate is restored back to it's original form.... Easy as that. If something's bugged, you "basically" hit the back button to see what was wrong with it, right?
Normally, I would agree. However, have the developers not stated that placate is now working as intended, meaning that when Hero vs. Villain pvp was launched that the placate available then was bugged? If this be the case, then it is a shame that it was not addressed prior to going live.
(Personally, I believe that it could use some adjusting still. Things like ninja blades defense debuffs should not cancel placate. On the other hand, things like stun, impale, and web grenade should cancel it. I disagree with being able to effect someones status, and then being able to placate them. Of course, this is only my opinion, and is open to being challenged by a well thought out rebuttal.)
@Phillon
Twitter @FiveIronBrony
I haven't checked youtube at the moment, but maybe someone should make a video of placate not working either in a PvP zone or an Arena fight, and do one from the stalkers point of view, and the other half from the person they are fighting. Or... We could have a bunch of stalkers go at it and see if it works on each other.
(I wrote this post in response to the current discussion at This Thread. But I think this is a better place to post my suggestions.)
Yes I think Placate is underperforming. For 1 is it bugged or not working as it should, 2 it is interruptible, 3 it has a long recharge time, and 4 Placate no longer puts you in real Hidden status.
1) Placate is bugged:
Normally if you Placate an enemy, he cant select you. But if you attack an enemy first and leave any status effect such as Stun, -fly, -def, etc then the enemy can still select you and attack, therefore Placate is useless for what its intended to do.
Almost every AT has some form of status effect or extra effect with their normal attack powers. Since all Ats share this commonality, the Stalker AT should not be discriminated against and singled as being penalized for using their attacks which have a status effect and then being denied Placate from working.
If this penalty remains on Stalkers, that forces most of them to Stop using most of their attacks ahead of time otherwise Placate will not work.
Some examples:
It forces Energy Melee to stop using all but 1 of its attacks since all those attacks have a chance to inflict a status effect (thats 85.7% of attacks that cannot be used).
It forces Spines to stop using at least 6 of its 7 attacks (thats 85.7% of attacks that cannot be used).
It forces Dark Melee to stop using at least 6 of its 7 attacks (thats 85.7% of attacks that cannot be used).
It forces Ninja Sword to stop using at least 5 of its 7 attacks (thats 71.4% of attacks that cannot be used).
It forces Martial Arts to stop using at least 4 of its 7 attacks (thats 57.1% of attacks that cannot be used).
No Melee AT should be forced to stop using higher than 57% of its attacks to be able to use a power (Placate) which the AT is heavily based upon, and essential to use its Inherent Power, and which is needed to deliver the damage it is supposed to.
Placate should be fixed so that when you have inflicted status effects on an enemy, the enemy still cannot target you.
2) Placate is interruptible which means the enemy can still attack while you are Placating and his damage will interrupt your ability to land a Critical.
If you click Placate (which has a cast time of 1.5 seconds) slightly before or at the same time the enemy clicks a power (which has a cast time of 3.5 seconds), the enemy power will still damage you.
The 2 purposes of Placate is to prevent an enemy from attacking you (also known as getting agro off you) and to be able to land a critical on your next attack. That means since Placate is interruptible, that it also isnt very effective at preventing attacks and fails to do one of its jobs which is give a Stalker a Critical.
Since the Stalker AT is forced to be in melee combat to use its skills, but with less melee HP compared to other melee Ats, that means even 1 attack that gets past Placate can be deadly to the Stalker. Many Avs can 1-2 shot a Stalker at full health. Many Hero Ats can 2 shot a Stalker and some Scrappers can kill a stalker with just 1 attack if the stalker is at 99% health (which is common due to fall damage taken by the Stalker while navigating).
With the existing penalty to stalkers of lower HP but still having the expectation to be in melee range to perform, Placate should not be able to have its Critical bypassed, and Placate should make any damage or effect of the enemy ineffective IF the Stalker activates Placate Before or at the same time the enemy activates his attack.
To be fair, I think the only power exception to the rule of enemy attacks being ineffective should be Assassins Strike and the Sniper powers of other Ats since these powers have long cast times, have LOS checks, and are interruptible. So if a player has the skill to be in the LOS and position of the enemy to use the power, and is able to click it at the same time as Placate is clicked, then the player using AS or a Sniper power is rewarded.
Placate should also uncue the enemys attack to help achieve its goal of preventing enemy attacks.
The reason for this is, like AS, the timing of Placate is important and susceptible to lag. Even if a player has a perfect connection, he can still experience Power lag from the server due to high levels of players in a zone. If a Player clicks a long range attack, that attack will activate eventually and be effective at dealing damage even during lag. If a Stalker clicks Placate during lag, theres a chance the timing will be wrong and allow the enemy to attack, thus Placate would be ineffective. This gives Placate an additional hindrance.
3) Placate has a long recharge time of 60 seconds. As stated above, Placate is needed to prevent enemy attacks and give the stalker a chance to make a Critical attack. Yet since we must be in melee range to perform, we are attacked many times during the 60 second wait time and are at greater risk then other Melee Ats.
Tanks and Brutes have the advantage of higher HP, Defense, and Resist Values. Scrappers have the advantage of higher HP and Damage so they are able to kill the enemy before being killing themselves.
Stalkers only advantage is a power which takes too long to recharge and isnt reliable at doing its job correctly. We have lower HP and damage modifiers than Scrappers, which is the AT we are derived from.
AS has a recharge time of 15 seconds but since Placate is usually needed to use AS again during a battle, we must still wait 60 seconds. Or we must wait 10 seconds and not attack or take any damage so that we are re-Hidden. So that is 15 +10 = 25 seconds we must wait to use AS to perform a critical. Stalkers already do less DPS than Scrappers, so Stalkers must make use of all opportunities to use AS and critical attacks just to ATTEMPT to perform as well as Scrappers do at dealing damage.
Heres a comparison of default recharge times of AS powers to high damage or high tier Melee powers:
Scrapper Melee:
Head Splitter: 14 seconds
Eviscerate: 8.38 seconds
Midnight Grasp 15 seconds
Golden Dragonfly 12 seconds
Eagles Claw 12 seconds
Ripper: 11 seconds
Stalker Melee:
Assassins Strike: 15 seconds
Shown above, most Scrappers must wait less than 14 seconds to perform their highest damage attacks, some of which are capable at 1 shoting (when used with BU and enhanced for damage) a Stalker with 99% health, just like AS can.
But Stalkers must wait either 15 (AS recharge) +10 (regain Hide) = 25 seconds or wait 60 seconds (Placate recharge) to use their highest damage attacks again. When not Hidden Assassins Strike only does Moderate damage which is pathetic for a power which has very high End cost, is interruptible, has 2 LOS checks, and has a 4 second activation time.
Also look at the recharge times for Scrapper Confront: 3 seconds and Tanker Taunt: 10 seconds. Those Ats are known for those powers and reliant on them to perform all that is expected of them. Yet Stalkers Placate time is 60 seconds and needed to deliver high damage and prevent enemy damage to survive, and these 2 things are expected of Stalkers.
Since Placate has a long recharge time and is needed by AS to make a critical, and AS criticals are needed by Stalkers to try to make up for the low DPS they have, I think the recharge time should be reduced for Placate. I do not 100% support this change yet it would improve Stalker performance; Perhaps Stalkers should be improved in other ways. But definitely the suggestions from parts 1), 2) and 4) should be made to Placate.
4) Placate puts you in pseudo Hide but no longer puts you in real Hidden status as it used to do. Placate only gives 380 stealth where true Hide gives 500 stealth. This change was made long ago during a time when many players were still learning how to deal with enemy stalkers or did not care to invest in +perception powers.
But a lot has changed since then. Most educated players know now that a Stalker running just Hide is almost certain to be seen by regular hero PVPers these days. They have the advantage to buy IR Goggles in Sirens, get stacked CM buffs, and the new perception IO will be added in issue 11. So if most enemies can see past Hide, they can surely see past 380 stealth which makes the change to Placate an unnecessary penalty. And even at the stealth cap (maximum) a Stalker can still be seen and have his Stealth bypassed using the Stealth Bug.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat....e=0&fpart=1
Stalker Placate should be restored to give the Hide level of stealth with the Defense bonus of Hide when used (3.75% Defense (ALL except AOE) and 37.5% Defense (AOE). By having Placate put us in real Hide with the same defense as Hide, this will help prevent AOES and random damage from ruining our Critical attacks and this change will make Placate useful again to an AT which already has so many restrictions, penalties, hate, and neglect.
To reiterate:
Placate is underperforming for 1) is it bugged or not working as it should, 2) it is interruptible, 3) it has a long recharge time, and 4) Placate no longer puts you in real Hidden status.
Since it is underperforming for the reasons explained above:
<ul type="square">[*]Placate should be fixed so that when you have inflicted status effects on an enemy, the enemy still cannot target you.[*]Placate should not be able to have its Critical bypassed, and Placate should make any damage or effect of the enemy ineffective IF the Stalker activates Placate Before or at the same time the enemy activates his attack.
(the only power exception to this rule should be Assassins Strike and the Sniper powers)[*]Placate should uncue the enemys attack to help achieve its goal of preventing enemy attacks. [*]Placate should have its recharge time reduced. [*]Placate should be restored to give the Hide level of stealth (500) with the Defense bonus of Hide when used (3.75% Defense (ALL except AOE) and 37.5% Defense (AOE) . [/list]
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I haven't checked youtube at the moment, but maybe someone should make a video of placate not working either in a PvP zone or an Arena fight, and do one from the stalkers point of view, and the other half from the person they are fighting. Or... We could have a bunch of stalkers go at it and see if it works on each other.
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Check my Sig. There are two videos that plainly show my Placate not wroking. Especialy the last clicky. I have more videos with even better examples. If what you see in my vids are not proof enough, I can post a link to another vid of mine that has undeniable fact showing how Placate is bugged.
Just let me know if you need to see more examples and I will post the link.
To add to this The Placate bug is also in the DBs wish i tested today on a dual with a friend on his brute (Db/nin vs Stone/Stone) Bouth of us talking on the phone to see if it happend with the dual blades. Not a big shock cuz Abalating Stike that gives a player status of -def. So Basacly if u do BU+AS+sweep+Placate in pvp ur [censored] cuz that last chain left u looking like a fool. His target dint drop and i was fully visible on his screen.
Little Help here devs..Cuz im new to forum dont mean im new to the game tink im new here cuz some stull got me mad and wanted to know why they where the way they are. Making a new set and having the chains usless is not fun at all. Well pvp wise.
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Yes Bossman, the amount of intelligence and information the Stalker Community seems to dig up out of nowhere compels you to put your [ QUOTE ]
...
[/ QUOTE ] doesn't it?
This bug has been talked about so much and has been around so long that it's going to be a miracle if it ever gets fixed. I am seriously thinking about dropping placate completely from my builds. I would venture to say that for me in PvP placate works about 1/15th of the time... maybe, and all the devs have EVER said is "working as intended".
This horse no longer looks like a horse. Just a soft pile of horse parts.
Don't give up. Remain strong. The night of the Stalkers will come.
Perhaps you can write a PM to Castle providing your user experience and explain how a working power for an already debilitated AT is important to you. This would serve as a friendly reminder that you Stalkers have waited your turn for fixes and would now like to cooperate with suggestions and feedback.
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Normally, I would agree. However, have the developers not stated that placate is now working as intended, meaning that when Hero vs. Villain pvp was launched that the placate available then was bugged? If this be the case, then it is a shame that it was not addressed prior to going live.
(Personally, I believe that it could use some adjusting still. Things like ninja blades defense debuffs should not cancel placate. On the other hand, things like stun, impale, and web grenade should cancel it. I disagree with being able to effect someones status, and then being able to placate them. Of course, this is only my opinion, and is open to being challenged by a well thought out rebuttal.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, 'cus it's really harder to enter a blindspot to attack an weak part of an opponent who is stunned or immobed!
Flawless logic!
I play my stalker in pvp almost every day and i find it to be the most iritating thing that i can run up to someone hit them with ET and them be stuned hit placate while they are stuned and can't activate any powers and then they pop a break free and are able to attack me even though i have JUST placated them.. it wasn't always this way.. and it was much more enjoyable before.
Anyone who wants to tell me that this isn't an issue for stalkers because the "pwn hard enough as is" obviously has never played a stalker in a pvp zone .. placate is most definatly broken.. if it's working as intended then it's intended for it to be broken and to that i say </3
Also.. with the new blaster buff.. now you can stun a blaster with ET or BS (nrg transfer /bone smasher for you non EM ppl)
placate them imidiately and run up to AS them.. and they can simply hit a tire 2 power through stuned sense they can target you after being placated and break your hide.. anyone with a break free more or less has stalker protection suposeing they don't stand still in a pvp zone so as to alow a stalker to lead with assasin strike.
Yes I said it if a stalker kills you it's YOUR fault.
[ QUOTE ]
I play my stalker in pvp almost every day and i find it to be the most iritating thing that i can run up to someone hit them with ET and them be stuned hit placate while they are stuned and can't activate any powers and then they pop a break free and are able to attack me even though i have JUST placated them.. it wasn't always this way.. and it was much more enjoyable before.
Anyone who wants to tell me that this isn't an issue for stalkers because the "pwn hard enough as is" obviously has never played a stalker in a pvp zone .. placate is most definatly broken.. if it's working as intended then it's intended for it to be broken and to that i say </3
Also.. with the new blaster buff.. now you can stun a blaster with ET or BS (nrg transfer /bone smasher for you non EM ppl)
placate them imidiately and run up to AS them.. and they can simply hit a tire 2 power through stuned sense they can target you after being placated and break your hide.. anyone with a break free more or less has stalker protection suposeing they don't stand still in a pvp zone so as to alow a stalker to lead with assasin strike.
Yes I said it if a stalker kills you it's YOUR fault.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good point about the new defiance. The only time I use placate in pvp now is to avoid the blaster who comes running up hitting aim and buildup.
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
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I play my stalker in pvp almost every day and i find it to be the most iritating thing that i can run up to someone hit them with ET and them be stuned hit placate while they are stuned and can't activate any powers and then they pop a break free and are able to attack me even though i have JUST placated them.. it wasn't always this way.. and it was much more enjoyable before.
Anyone who wants to tell me that this isn't an issue for stalkers because the "pwn hard enough as is" obviously has never played a stalker in a pvp zone .. placate is most definatly broken.. if it's working as intended then it's intended for it to be broken and to that i say </3
Also.. with the new blaster buff.. now you can stun a blaster with ET or BS (nrg transfer /bone smasher for you non EM ppl)
placate them imidiately and run up to AS them.. and they can simply hit a tire 2 power through stuned sense they can target you after being placated and break your hide.. anyone with a break free more or less has stalker protection suposeing they don't stand still in a pvp zone so as to alow a stalker to lead with assasin strike.
Yes I said it if a stalker kills you it's YOUR fault.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good point about the new defiance. The only time I use placate in pvp now is to avoid the blaster who comes running up hitting aim and buildup.
[/ QUOTE ]
In RV, it's just the funniest thing just hitting a PFF'd Blapper with Brawl, seeing them pop Powerboost, Aim, and Buildup, and then Placating them to sit there with their Bonuses wasting away....
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
I play my stalker in pvp almost every day and i find it to be the most iritating thing that i can run up to someone hit them with ET and them be stuned hit placate while they are stuned and can't activate any powers and then they pop a break free and are able to attack me even though i have JUST placated them.. it wasn't always this way.. and it was much more enjoyable before.
Anyone who wants to tell me that this isn't an issue for stalkers because the "pwn hard enough as is" obviously has never played a stalker in a pvp zone .. placate is most definatly broken.. if it's working as intended then it's intended for it to be broken and to that i say </3
Also.. with the new blaster buff.. now you can stun a blaster with ET or BS (nrg transfer /bone smasher for you non EM ppl)
placate them imidiately and run up to AS them.. and they can simply hit a tire 2 power through stuned sense they can target you after being placated and break your hide.. anyone with a break free more or less has stalker protection suposeing they don't stand still in a pvp zone so as to alow a stalker to lead with assasin strike.
Yes I said it if a stalker kills you it's YOUR fault.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good point about the new defiance. The only time I use placate in pvp now is to avoid the blaster who comes running up hitting aim and buildup.
[/ QUOTE ]
In RV, it's just the funniest thing just hitting a PFF'd Blapper with Brawl, seeing them pop Powerboost, Aim, and Buildup, and then Placating them to sit there with their Bonuses wasting away....
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, just don't get caught laughing at them while they hit Inferno after aim and buildup while standing next to you.
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
I play my stalker in pvp almost every day and i find it to be the most iritating thing that i can run up to someone hit them with ET and them be stuned hit placate while they are stuned and can't activate any powers and then they pop a break free and are able to attack me even though i have JUST placated them.. it wasn't always this way.. and it was much more enjoyable before.
Anyone who wants to tell me that this isn't an issue for stalkers because the "pwn hard enough as is" obviously has never played a stalker in a pvp zone .. placate is most definatly broken.. if it's working as intended then it's intended for it to be broken and to that i say </3
Also.. with the new blaster buff.. now you can stun a blaster with ET or BS (nrg transfer /bone smasher for you non EM ppl)
placate them imidiately and run up to AS them.. and they can simply hit a tire 2 power through stuned sense they can target you after being placated and break your hide.. anyone with a break free more or less has stalker protection suposeing they don't stand still in a pvp zone so as to alow a stalker to lead with assasin strike.
Yes I said it if a stalker kills you it's YOUR fault.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good point about the new defiance. The only time I use placate in pvp now is to avoid the blaster who comes running up hitting aim and buildup.
[/ QUOTE ]
In RV, it's just the funniest thing just hitting a PFF'd Blapper with Brawl, seeing them pop Powerboost, Aim, and Buildup, and then Placating them to sit there with their Bonuses wasting away....
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, just don't get caught laughing at them while they hit Inferno after aim and buildup while standing next to you.
[/ QUOTE ]
Blasters take Inferno for PvP? Since when? I thought they were only limited to 4 power from their Primary 
[ QUOTE ]
Wait a minute. Clicking Placate is a skill and clicking a BF isn't? How again do you make the distinction?
As far as I can see, both require the same amount of work to be done by the player.
Click - Placate activated
or
Click - BF used
Neither one is a "skill".
[/ QUOTE ]
Anyone can twist facts to make any situation favorable to their argument. But the fact remains, no matter how you try to weave a rebuttal, Placate is a skill and a BF is not.