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Heck I'd even take option #3.... just make consume do more damage.
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I guess, but still the recharge time of 180 seconds base pretty much limits its potential out of the box as a damage dealing AoE. If the goal is to make the sets more of a trade-off and more balanced, removing some of the uniqueness in powers must come of the deal in the effort to achieve overall sameness. What ends up upsetting most people, is that certain thematics must give a little ground to this overall balance, and I think that is the real reason why some sets just exist; to appease those who only play a power-set for it's theme. Those on the Virtue server come to mind. (before I allienate an entire server, let me add that I have a few toons on virtue, thanks.) Thematically, I'm not sure how burning things would give you back endurance at all, but hey. The devs made that call, not I.
We're just simple Brutes, what do we know? All this talk of balance makes our smallish brains with our sloping foreheads hurt anyways.
SMASH!!
before i deleted my level 32 dm/fire brute my "big aoe nuke" would be me herding up a few groups after eating a few purples.
with blazing aura + soul drain + dark consumption + consume i would kill the entire spawn. of course i would nearly die everytime i did this. sometimes i would die.
if consume had a +regen or +recovery i wouldnt mind it having a 3 minute recharge.
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if consume had a +regen or +recovery i wouldnt mind it having a 3 minute recharge.
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Actually... that's a pretty cool idea.
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with blazing aura + soul drain + dark consumption + consume i would kill the entire spawn.
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Why did you delete this guy? He sounds like a blast to play. Literally. Especially now that you can add burn and ball lightning to your list of aoes thanks to the patron powers.
EDIT: Man, the idea of a suped up fully fury + soul drain + firey embrace + nukage is making me all exciting now. I have too many alts I wanna make lol.
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with blazing aura + soul drain + dark consumption + consume i would kill the entire spawn.
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Why did you delete this guy? He sounds like a blast to play. Literally. Especially now that you can add burn and ball lightning to your list of aoes thanks to the patron powers.
EDIT: Man, the idea of a suped up fully fury + soul drain + firey embrace + nukage is making me all exciting now. I have too many alts I wanna make lol.
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three attacks for 30 levels made me crazy. shadow maul would lock me up at times to the point i would get killed. for some reason i fought a crap load of COT too and they are resistant to negative energy. overall it just wasnt fun for me.
i remade as a fire/fire brute, and i have access to more attacks, and more real AOE attacks.
so far dark melee feels about half as effective as fire melee in putting out damage.
really? i've had the exact opposite feeling. I picked up SP-Sm-SM and Air Sup for my attacks. With those and brawl, i had Fury up and running after about 5 minions and then I'd hit Dark Consuption or Energy Drain and from that point on, my character's name might as well be Steamroller.
my fire/da brute on the other hand, couldn't build Fury nearly as fast as my DM. sure the damage was a bit higher on each attack because it's a tank set, but in the long run, i finish missions faster on my DM.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
I thought Castle said he was working on improving Healing Flames?
Scrapper Slotting Basics
Brute Slotting Basics
The patch notes on test today say that the cast (animation) time was reduced on Healing Flames.
There was no mention of a fix for the fact that it is only healing 17.5% instead of 25%.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
Good news nevertheless!
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The patch notes on test today say that the cast (animation) time was reduced on Healing Flames.
There was no mention of a fix for the fact that it is only healing 17.5% instead of 25%.
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Somethings better than nothing 
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The patch notes on test today say that the cast (animation) time was reduced on Healing Flames.
There was no mention of a fix for the fact that it is only healing 17.5% instead of 25%.
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Somethings better than nothing
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Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy about the animation change. I just think it also needs to be raised to 25% heal like the other 60 second recharge self heals, and was kind of hoping someone else might hop on test to see if it was stealth buffed, since I'm at work.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
well, the Heal % is the same as it was before. The animation is just as long, but you can act again when the flames get to your head instead of at the end of the animation (can't find my stopwatch to time it though >.<
It apears to be a second and a half. Deffinitly help... But its still 17%, which is really beggining to piss me off.
/signed
we need to buff all brute secondarys
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It apears to be a second and a half. Deffinitly help... But its still 17%, which is really beggining to piss me off.
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Agreed. I've PM'd Cuppa and Castle about it and am just asking for a straight up answer : "Are we going to see a fix for the base heal value of Healing Flames or not?"
EDIT : Per a PM from Castle, I believe there are further changes forthcoming. Do not deluge Castle with PM's.
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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EDIT : Per a PM from Castle, I believe there are further changes forthcoming. Do not deluge Castle with PM's.
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Castle really does a ton for my morale.
I need a ::thumbsup:: smiley.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
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Agreed. I've PM'd Cuppa and Castle about it and am just asking for a straight up answer : "Are we going to see a fix for the base heal value of Healing Flames or not?"
EDIT : Per a PM from Castle, I believe there are further changes forthcoming. Do not deluge Castle with PM's.
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Specifically, I said "One step at a time." The animation time was, technically, a bug I could fix (a number in the animation file was set too high.) The value of the heal on Healing Flames is a balance issue, which has to be dealt with as a team. So, we're looking at it, but no change is currently being made.
I thought this was the other way around?
I thought Healing Flames was supposed to be 25% and was bugged at 17%, while the animation time was working as intended but was being looked at to see if it was worth changing.
As I recall, he thought it was bugged, but checked with some other devs and found out it was working as intended.
Always a pleasure to see your name in a thread with good news Castle. The animation fix will 'really' help. I PvP with a few /FA Brutes and this fix will heavily impact the effectiveness of Healing flames in the middle of a combat.
No longer will I use my heal and have to sit and watch as my opponent basically nullifies it as I am forced to watch and do nothing because of the animation inaction.
As far as the 25% heal vice 17% heal being a balance issue, I agree, it clearly is. Simply, it needs to be raised to the same level of every other self heal. The fact that it provides toxic resists in a click form is not sufficient enough of a boon to keep it at 17%. Dull pain by comparison provides so much more mitigation, it isn't really even a valid comparison.
For the sake of balance, HF needs its increment bumped to 25%. I'm sure that it's plain enough to see, that no huge debate will be neccessary, and a forthcoming "buff" to the power will be in the works shortly.
Again, thank you for your constant work on behalf of the players. We really do appreciate every bit of work you do for the community.
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As I recall, he thought it was bugged, but checked with some other devs and found out it was working as intended.
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Ahhh, thank you.
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The value of the heal on Healing Flames is a balance issue, which has to be dealt with as a team. So, we're looking at it, but no change is currently being made.
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Do you need analysis sent your way? Because players have already ran very detailed numbers to show that even if Healing Flames is raised to a 25% heal, you'd need to do considerably more to bring Fire up to par with I7 Ice or Invuln.
I don't have a Fire Tanker or Brute, by the way.
Edit: and where are my manners? Thank you very much for the animation change, and for at least posting this response.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
*from the Amen Corner*...AMEN
All I ask for is knockback protection and/or immob protection. Oh yeah, give a me a good reason to take Temperature Protection...at least throw some KB/Immob protection in it. It tears me up that I MUST take CJ and Acro for these especially when I want my toon to have fly. And dont tell me "take hover, it works just as well"...hell's naw!
BTW...it's real effed up that /FA's are corralled to take Super Jump...and it takes a bajillion seconds to bring up a half zillion toggles...If you have the Devs ear Deus, please beg on our behalf 
I can survive with HF being only 17% base heal (altho' any boosts will be accepted). That along with a well slotted Siphon Life and I can do some things.
Thank You 
"Behold I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents and harmless as doves" - Jesus the Christ
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As far as the 25% heal vice 17% heal being a balance issue, I agree, it clearly is. Simply, it needs to be raised to the same level of every other self heal. The fact that it provides toxic resists in a click form is not sufficient enough of a boon to keep it at 17%. Dull pain by comparison provides so much more mitigation, it isn't really even a valid comparison.
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almost all the self heals and dull pain powers give +res(toxic).
healing flames USED to be fiery auras disorient protection. that i think is the only reason for the base to be 17% instead of 25% except healing flames is no longer the disorient protection for FA.
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both of them require a tohit check. dark consumption is like 8 feet radius and does moderate neg energy damage. consumption is 20 feet and does minor fire damage.
the problem is they are on 3 minute recharges
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My goal in bringing up Dark consumption was to note that it is the ONLY attack(non-defense) based power "anyone" has access to that does damage while giving back endurance. No other power from any other primary or secondary in any set available to any AT does that, other than consume. Any other power that effects endurance for a player, such as the upcoming Electric Melee for Brutes, drains endurance.
Consume, is exactly like dark consumption. It is unlike any other of the Defensive based endurance management tools. Whether it's an Ice tanker's Energy Absorption, or an EA brutes Energy Drain, or the upcoming /ELA brute's power sink. None of those powers require a "to-hit" check. And each of them "drain endurance." This is far more preferable to dealing the absolutely meaningless brawl level damage that consume does. (1.111 BI)
I'm not saying make consume drain endurance, what I am saying, is that instead of making it similar to Dark Consumption in that it requires a "to hit" check, make it auto hit like every other secondary Brute Endurance management power. It is a secondary Brute power after all. Dark Melee should be the exception. As it stands there is more of a direct comparison between DC and consume, than consume and Power sink, or energy drain.
Since the overall goal is to bring FA to the same levels as the other secondaries, it seems only fitting to make consume follow these other defensive power-sets methodology when it comes to endurance management powers.
If the devs really wanted to totally redeem themselves, then they could make it drain endurance as well, I wouldn't be mad at them for it, but hey...I'd settle for the auto hit, or the endurance drain - take your pick - one or the other would make me happy. Both would require me to wake up and realize i'm dreaming again, I 'm already aware of that pitfall.
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Heck I'd even take option #3.... just make consume do more damage.