How can a single Night Widow take down a team?
By
Azerrath,
Posted on: 2006-05-16 10:18 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Worse, sometimes on pick up groups you'll have people freaking out "OMG! Invisible mobs are attacking me! My client is bugged! (Character logging out in 30...29...(dead)...28)
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Well yes this is a problem to be fair.
The issue is that there is a severe -- and I mean severe bug in the COH/V client(s) that causes some players (it seems to happen to certain people on my SG and not others) to get the "vanishing mob" syndrome. This is not tactics or mob abilities; it is a bug, and a very, very bad one. If this has happened to you as a bug, you're likely to assume it when it happens to you under correct behavior.
The devs are in part at fault here because in 2 years they still have not addressed this "invisible mob" bug, and so players who have seen this bug for 2 years make the wrong assumption -- but an entirely understandable one.
Before the devs put legitimate disappearing mobs with invisibilty powers into the game, they needed to get rid of this bug completely. That they did not is actually poor IMO. They need to kill this bug. Now. Then the Night Widows are just a tactical challenge.
Until they do, for people who get this bug (I don't but 3 of my SG-mates do on a regular basis), it's going to look like a bug and just what you described will happen. We worked it out on my team and we can usually figure out what is going on (through group chat communication), but it's very disconcerting to people who have seen the bug before. This bug needs to be squished.
F
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funny, my bots have no problem "Seeing" night widows.
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If I were you I wouldn't rely too heavily on this. It screams "bug" to me, and I won't at all be surprised if it stops working that way someday.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I do think that the Night Widows need buffing a little, without their smoke grenade they really do suffer from being medicore. Giving them placate or AS like the Bane Spider Executioners would be ideal.
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funny, my bots have no problem "Seeing" night widows.
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If I were you I wouldn't rely too heavily on this. It screams "bug" to me, and I won't at all be surprised if it stops working that way someday.
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I'd giggle and cheer for days if they did. Perhaps then mobs would stop chasing down my Stalker despite the fact he's clearly "Hidden". NPC characters don't need perception to "see" you once they've "seen" you. A pain for every single AT except MM's IMO.
I like them. I never really noticed them being paticularly hard. The first couple of times I thought it was a graphic glitch that caused them to disappear and was about to bug it :-). After that I figured out the tricks to get them.
The problem is, the Night Widow's smoke grenade is much more powerful than the player version. If a blaster smoke grenade's a group, then attacks them, they'll see him no problem. If a Night Widow smoke grenades a team, not only can they not see her, but they can't see her allies either, even if they attack. As soon as the NPC's attack, you should be able to see them, just as they could see you if you used smoke grenade on them.
Regardless, 1 insight/tactics/any +perception power will resolve the whole issue...
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If you check out your status bar, you'll see an icon for the blinding. Come I7, it may even have a text component, like "Taunted" does.
To Test with you!
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I think it's "SCREWED!" if I remember correctly.
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I do think that the Night Widows need buffing a little, without their smoke grenade they really do suffer from being medicore. Giving them placate or AS like the Bane Spider Executioners would be ideal.
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Masochism.
I would be intensely opposed to this change.
They would do better with a more effective ranged attack chain.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Worse, sometimes on pick up groups you'll have people freaking out "OMG! Invisible mobs are attacking me! My client is bugged! (Character logging out in 30...29...(dead)...28)
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Usually just zoning out of the mission and back in will fix that bug for me.
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The problem is, the Night Widow's smoke grenade is much more powerful than the player version.
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Along with the mob version of Invincibility, Cloaking Device, Flame Thrower, and a whole host of other powers. I'd love for them to address this, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Because I have a /Devices Blaster it pisses me off to no end when I can't hit a Longbow Spec Ops because his cloak is engaged.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Yeah, but who carefully scans their iconbar after every fight?
The text component would help. I still like the idea of putting some smoke effects in front of the camera though.
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Hey, if the enemies suddenly disappear and you think something's fishy, take a gander at the bar. If you see something you don't recognise, then right-click to see what it is.
That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It'd be easier if it blinked and did cartwheels to warn you, sure, but is it really too much to ask for a little presence of mind to spot check it when something's up?
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But yeah, I do check it consistantly.
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I have much too large a screen to constantly shift my eyes up to that corner. If it were undockable from my health/XP meter, that would make it more useful.
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Heheh. This sounds like, "my mansion's too big to walk all the way to answer the front door!" 
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Along with the mob version of Invincibility, Cloaking Device, Flame Thrower, and a whole host of other powers. I'd love for them to address this, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Because I have a /Devices Blaster it pisses me off to no end when I can't hit a Longbow Spec Ops because his cloak is engaged.
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Yes, one thing that annoys most players is when the NPCs don't "play by the rules." Those spec ops guys do tons of things that'd drop my Stalker's hide instantly, and their hide stays up. That's frustrating... because you think to yourself, "Ah, I have had my cloak dropped by this, so I'll do it back to them" and it doesn't work... Which screams "cheat!" (or at least, "fudge!") quite loudly.
Too many elements of this game are kludgey hacks designed to paper over all the massive inadequacies. Villains getting uber-versions of player powers is one of the worst kinds.
F
This kind of reminds me of the first time I encountered a fake nemesis and I saw a force bolt headed my direction. I had tried FF defenders before and was a bout to laugh... then it hit and did like over 200pts of damage.
But, yeah... mob versions of powers are ridiculous compared to player versions...
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Worse, sometimes on pick up groups you'll have people freaking out "OMG! Invisible mobs are attacking me! My client is bugged! (Character logging out in 30...29...(dead)...28)
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Well yes this is a problem to be fair.
The issue is that there is a severe -- and I mean severe bug in the COH/V client(s) that causes some players (it seems to happen to certain people on my SG and not others) to get the "vanishing mob" syndrome. This is not tactics or mob abilities; it is a bug, and a very, very bad one. If this has happened to you as a bug, you're likely to assume it when it happens to you under correct behavior.
The devs are in part at fault here because in 2 years they still have not addressed this "invisible mob" bug, and so players who have seen this bug for 2 years make the wrong assumption -- but an entirely understandable one.
Before the devs put legitimate disappearing mobs with invisibilty powers into the game, they needed to get rid of this bug completely. That they did not is actually poor IMO. They need to kill this bug. Now. Then the Night Widows are just a tactical challenge.
Until they do, for people who get this bug (I don't but 3 of my SG-mates do on a regular basis), it's going to look like a bug and just what you described will happen. We worked it out on my team and we can usually figure out what is going on (through group chat communication), but it's very disconcerting to people who have seen the bug before. This bug needs to be squished.
F
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This bug has also been getting worse, it seems. I regularly have to exit and re-enter missions in order to see the enemies (which is a stellar pain in the behind if you're an MM).
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This bug has also been getting worse, it seems. I regularly have to exit and re-enter missions in order to see the enemies (which is a stellar pain in the behind if you're an MM).
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Right, and this is my point. They have a BUG, that has existed since beta, that looks EXACTLY like the super-powers of this villain type. How in the world does one expect the players who regularly experience this bug from mission to mission, to magically know that this one time it's now villain powers and not a bug?
They need to fix this bug. The bug should have been fixed before they ever introduced a villain with powers that look just like it. That they haven't done so is rather sloppy on their part.
It's also pathetic that this fundamental and very serious bug (whole entire missions full of mobs being present but not visible to the end user??) has not been addressed in any way in two years. That's SOE quality bug-killing, that is. (Which, if you know SOE, means 'crappy'.)
F
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This kind of reminds me of the first time I encountered a fake nemesis and I saw a force bolt headed my direction. I had tried FF defenders before and was a bout to laugh... then it hit and did like over 200pts of damage.
But, yeah... mob versions of powers are ridiculous compared to player versions...
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Paragon Protector MOG vs. player MOG. 'Nuff said.
F
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This sounds like, "my mansion's too big to walk all the way to answer the front door!"
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Well, yeah! 
I want the damn door to come to me!
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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They need to fix this bug. The bug should have been fixed before they ever introduced a villain with powers that look just like it. That they haven't done so is rather sloppy on their part.
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Not that I disagree that it should be fixed, but the reason it hasn't been fixed is probably that they simply have no idea what causes it. I know I have no idea personally. I used to randomly have it happen every mission, then it went away, then it randomly happened an average of 1:5 missions. I got a new machine and it stopped completely. Then I had a mission that did it again, but haven't seen it since. My guess is the devs are pretty clueless as to what causes it.
And that's EXACTLY why everyone needs to /bug it every single time they see it, as soon as they see it. I know it can be hard to think about /bug when you're being slaughtered by invisible foes, but it's really the only way the devs are going to get the data to fix it. Otherwise it's almost impossible to fix a bug you can't even reproduce (and if you try, there's no way to know whether or not you actually fixed it).
Yeah, FWIW, I have seen this bug exactly once in two years. I've seen it affect my regular gaming buddies one other time.
Which I don't say to make less of the problem. Indeed I just mean to point out how terribly variable it really is.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I've had it happen a few times; usually when there's an in-mission ambush that attacks as soon as you enter the mission. The odd thing is, I was able to see a regular spawn of enemies just fine, behind where the attacks were emanating from. Still, they should AT LEAST have a smokey cloud around your head to indicate this, or make smoke grenade a targetted AoE instead of somethign that sticks with you (which I think is kind of odd)...
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Yeah, but who carefully scans their iconbar after every fight?
...
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I carefully scan my iconbar during a fight...with my Kheldians. It can be the difference between dropping Dwarf form and laying the hurt on a boss, or turning yourself into a sitting duck. Kheldians the one AT that voluntarily turns off Tanker level mezz protection in combat. Go figure.... 
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Yeah, but who carefully scans their iconbar after every fight?
The text component would help. I still like the idea of putting some smoke effects in front of the camera though.
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Hey, if the enemies suddenly disappear and you think something's fishy, take a gander at the bar. If you see something you don't recognise, then right-click to see what it is.
That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It'd be easier if it blinked and did cartwheels to warn you, sure, but is it really too much to ask for a little presence of mind to spot check it when something's up?
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Nope. Not at all
In fact, I'd say it's the mark of a decent player.
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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This sounds like, "my mansion's too big to walk all the way to answer the front door!"
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Well, yeah! I want the damn door to come to me!
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I feel your pain, UberGuy. Running 1920X1200 on a 24" wide means that I have to actually turn my head to see from one corner to the other.
Hmm.. perhaps I shouldn't sit so closely.
With all the menus still at 100%.
Looks like
this. Don't let browser resize image.
Be well, people of CoH.
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If you have a quick way of telling which of those icons are negative or "bad stuff", please tell me!
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For the most part, it's a combination of things. If I see an attack animation coming for me, I glance over to see if it's going to hit (the icon is there or not) and if I have enough HP to survive it (if not, pop a green). Additionally, if I see something new occuring in the line, I check to see if it's a buff I'm familiar with, or something new. If it's something new, I'll right click it if I can, and check it out.
I kind of have a memory for that kind of thing, so I don't know how easy it is to just remember these things. Like, did you know that when the Lost / Rikti use their energy sword, it's the same "status effect" symbol as the plasma rifle? The picture is the same, but the description, damage, and effects are different. Just something I've picked up from knowing.
And even the symbols themselves can tell you if it's a negative effect. If you see a "down arrow" in the picture, it's most likely a negative effect. If you see an "up arrow" in the picture, it's a positive effect. Think of Healing Aura and Twilight Grasp. If you see the Healing Aura icon show up, you know you're getting healing. But it also has an "up arrow" in the picture behind the plus. If you see the Twilight Grasp icon, you could be getting healed, or debuffed. That's when you use a little common knowledge. Is there a Dark Corruptor or Mastermind on the team? Are you fighting the CoT? Would you normally expect Malta to have Twilight Grasp? Things like that. Smoke Grenade is an easy one as well. If your allies use it, you won't see the icon there. If the enemies use it, you will. Infact, that's how most of the powers are. Things like Holds, Debuffs, attacks, etc you won't see there unless they're being used against you.
Also, someone mentioned they would look there more often if it was in an easier spot to see. The bar I look at is the one in the expanded Team menu. That way I can see mine, compared to everyone else's, and have the HP bar right there.