Official Thread for Recluses Victory: PvP Zone


Adam7

 

Posted

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Wait, this means my BS/SR is finally FOTM? Huh. Who knew? And here she is, having been low on the totem pole since Beta.

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Nah, I don't care what the FOTM is, we still own the zone.


 

Posted

Could we maybe do something about NPC attacks like how a lvl 50 longbow warden or Fake nem (also talking PvE but since there are sooo many Longbow bosses in RV...) have a force bolt doing like 500 damage...and the MM/Defender Force bolts do like 50...with Fulcrum Shift...and Red pills....and Aim....combined....

If it weren't for debt in PvP zones I'd be all for playing more PvP...atleast halve the debt since there's such a risk of player PVP griefing debt...


 

Posted

well we all gotta get that 4th debt badge sooner or later, right?


 

Posted

My Thug/Dark MM was able to take out an unattended neutral pillbox which was being guarded by four level 54 Boss turrets. However, I was unable to do the same in taking out an unattended hero pillbox which was being guarded by four level 50 Boss turrets. Why are four level 50 turrets doing a significantly larger amount of damage than four level 54 turrets?


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Posted

Maybe there was a cloaked hero inside the pillbox with Leadership.


 

Posted

even that wouldnt make enough difference i think

pretty weird, im sure there was some player-caused reason for his ease with the 54's or his difficulty with the 50's


 

Posted

geom that is far from a joke man,I in all honesty was doing amazingly i had 2 scraps and a blaster jump me and dropped them all.They were completely amazed lol and congradulated me on my playing (Maybe one of the ones will happen along the boards and comment). My characters name was Fire Flie.


 

Posted

those 3 heros must have been pretty bad then, lol


 

Posted

its not very often i come across someone that was actually compotent with their character build for pvp. I guess that would be the effects of Mass pling kicking in. seriously, i dont care if you have two accounts completley filled with level 50's only a month after you started playing. learn to [censored] play your toon before you come up and start something with me in a pvp zone


I believe in quality, not quantity. also i have a short attention span...

Guardian
Main: Goomba: 50-Tank Inv/stone...2892 hours
33-Brute
Pinnacle
Secondary Main: Captain Battleship: 22-Tank Inv/SS

 

Posted

I disagree witht he tone, but the content of Bo^3's post is spot-on.

And I say this as one of the people that HAD trouble getting to know the ropes of their "brand new 40", too. I know I was far from optimally-efficient with builds I hadn't at least played up to level 10-ish, so that I knew the basics of how to play it.


 

Posted

These people that act like their is that much skill involved crack me up. Yet they are from basically the same ATs hmmm

anyway

I don't understand the devs reasoning with the heavies

The spider isn't that good. The ranged attack is very weak and even though it looks like webbing it doesn't act like a web grenade or anything like that. For it to do decent damage you have ot put it in melee range but anyone can get out of it's range easily as it is slow.

The heroes have a better heavy not only does it's ranged attack do devastating damage but it also causes an effect where your toon cannot act for several seconds.

So maybe I'm missing something but why did the heroes get a superior heavy to villains? Couldn't they have just made them the same but with different looks?


 

Posted

Turrets dont "Jump out of melee" ...I'm guessing that's the logic anyway... That they're really only meant for one thing and that's taking Pillboxes ...depite the Hero Heavy OTH being a wicked-cool pet for ranged Villain-Ganking.

Case in Point: The Heavy Blaster spider is basically an E.B. of the Arachnos Disruptor, which I'm guessing represents Scirrocco in the same way Fortunatas and NightWidows represent Ghost widow, and Huntsman/ToxicTaurants represent Scorpion. ...where as Longbow are just well... really generic like EPP/APP's, thus somehow better???

I dunno, I'll never understand that whole deal since Positron told us it would be one thing and then it turned out to be the complete opposite ...nor should I be expected to understand the "logic" there.


 

Posted

I dunno maybe they werent so great ,but the point is all these ppl saying they were getting owned as soon as they stepped out of the base are way off.I didnt always win against multiple attackers obviously,but there were quite a few times i did.Also I managed to hold a pillbox solo against three different attacks from a team of heroes the AT's i am unsure of but they finally got me on the fourth try.

Mainly dominators arent as bad as everyone is letting on if they get a mass dmg buff like everyone is calling for they will be nerfed shortly after.Balancing an AT capable of dmg and control is a fine line,either they have so much dmg u dont have a chance when they hold u or they dont have anywhere near enough.



(I apologize for the bad grammar/punctuation im in a hurry)


 

Posted

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I dunno maybe they werent so great ,but the point is all these ppl saying they were getting owned as soon as they stepped out of the base are way off.I didnt always win against multiple attackers obviously,but there were quite a few times i did.Also I managed to hold a pillbox solo against three different attacks from a team of heroes the AT's i am unsure of but they finally got me on the fourth try.

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OK... that first sentence seems to have nothing to do with the rest of what you were saying.

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I dunno maybe they werent so great ,but the point is all these ppl saying they were getting owned as soon as they stepped out of the base are way off.

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... at least to me sounds like coming out of *their* base, where the rest of the statement sounds like you're referring to pillboxes.

And yes, it did happen coming out of the base. Come up, head to Heavy platform, get hit by EM stalker, get stunned, lose toggles, get killed, go back with 1HP/1END and now... no rest.

Funny thing is, I still sort of accomplished what I was trying to do - protect the - think it was a troller - there from stalkers, as they managed to get away. Just not the way I intended.


 

Posted

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Mainly dominators arent as bad as everyone is letting on if they get a mass dmg buff like everyone is calling for they will be nerfed shortly after.Balancing an AT capable of dmg and control is a fine line,either they have so much dmg u dont have a chance when they hold u or they dont have anywhere near enough.

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Yeah... OR WE COULD... Step back into reality(This event was a Fluke) where everyone brings Breakfrees to PvP and this garbage of taking 10-13 attacks to kill anything or build domination becomes pretty apparent for what it really is... Garbage. And yeah, Doms are a lot better with a lot of Buffs on them from teammates... but they don't become Gods like Stalkers, Corrs, and Brutes do when they recieve the same buffs.


I thoguht it was hilarious during the event, because I watched several scrappers all Log out once a Dom held them with domination. They still had the full 30 seconds to logout and escape the extra long 45 or 60 seconds it would have taken the Dom to kill them. Now Castle said he was going to do something about Low-Damage AT's taking this long to defeat people... But it looks like that compramise remains unfulfilled.


 

Posted

i guess the solution is to team

which i dont mind, but when my control is half-[censored] and my damage is half-[censored], i wonder what im supposed to actually be good at. a ice/dark corrupter can get 3 ST holds by lvl 30 (i think?) which is great for stacking mag, and they get good damage and debuffs too


 

Posted

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These people that act like their is that much skill involved crack me up. Yet they are from basically the same ATs hmmm

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Which AT would that be? I play controller, Defender, Scrapper, Tanker, Blaster, Mastermind, Dominator, Brute, Corruptor, and Stalker. Yes, that's everything except the Kheldians (don't have a 50 yet, sue me).

And it's not a matter of SKILL - it's a matter of familiarity with the powers your character has. When you're playing a healer at level 40, but are NOT familiar with ranges and the like for your powers ...? When you're playing a buffer, get handed level 40 in one click, but are NOT terribly familiar with the timers on your upper-level buffs? When you're playing a combat character, and are NOT practised with stringing together many of your powers into an efficient attack chain ...?

All that and more happened to me during the Event. And all because I simply had no experience with those powers prior to those nights.

If I'd stuck with the pedestrian and familiar for every character I tried - say, a Robo/FF Mastermind, like my main - I'd've done just fine. Maybe better than "just fine". I certainly did darned well with my DM/Regen Scrapper ... but then, I'm familiar with the lower-level range of that exact build, so the upper-level stuff was easier for me to grasp quickly.

...

IOW, it's not skill thatt he "poof, it's yours" crowd lacks. It's practise and familiarity. Efficienty is simply NOT found while fumbling inexpertly for controls one is unfamiliar with.

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The spider isn't that good. The ranged attack is very weak and even though it looks like webbing it doesn't act like a web grenade or anything like that. For it to do decent damage you have ot put it in melee range but anyone can get out of it's range easily as it is slow.

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I thnk if a few /devices or /traps folks peppered you with Web Grenades and Caltrops (enough to build magnitude and defeat resistance, natch), and/or a /Dark slapped down some Tar Patch lovin' ... or even some TT-joy ... you mgiht not be so quick to say that anyone can easily get out of it's way.


 

Posted

My first problem was, the longer I played, the worse my framerate got. After about 45 minutes, I'd have to restart the game. Nobody else claimed to have the problem, but I have it every time. The same actually happens on the live servers, but it takes 3-4 hours in Siren's before I get to the point I must restart.

Second, occasionally when taking the teleporter from the lower level of the base to the upper, I would appear on my screen visually stealthed or invis (a couple of times, I was totally absent from my own view). I wasn't actually stealthed or invis; it was just a visual error (Radeon 9k w/Catalyst 6.5).

Third, after playing for a while, my MM started getting a pop-up when I tried to take control of a heavy telling me you can only control one at a time. But I had none. I had successfully used heavies a number of times before. /release_pets didn't clear the problem. Nor did logging out and back in, or changing instances of RV, or even switching characters then switching back.

Next, I was really disappointed at the so-called "pillboxes" themselves. Technically, pillboxes are small fortifications designed to provide cover for defending forces. I had this wonderful dream that zone PvP was being opened up for the many hero/villain builds that aren't well-suited for City of Grasshoppers. Now, invaders would have to enter small enclosed structures to root out defenders, where getting away if you made things rough for 'em would require more than simply hitting the space bar.

Instead, the "pillboxes" turn out to simply be small frames with a few perceptionless turrets and an itsy bitsy forcefield. Structures, I might add, my henchmen had trouble navigating around. I even found Mako running back and forth a 4' path, over and over and over. The -teleport of the forcefield is nice, but it offers no protection from disorient or hold as people have come to expect from aoe fields. I'm actually fine with that, but if I am required to stay in the itsy bitsy bubble for defense, it needs to also provide protection from knockback and repel. I shouldn't need a pocket kinetic to keep from being ejected from a fully-functional fortification.

Also, while I agree you shouldn't be able to heal turrets, there needs to be some mechanism for them to be repaired. More than once I saw a pillbox taken from a superior group of defenders because the attackers simply ignored the players and attacked the turrets. Yes, they were killed many times while doing it. But they didn't care about debt, and neither will the level 50s on the live servers. As is, the game mechanics allow the attackers to win, but not the defenders.

Perhaps the turrets could regenerate slowly while in passive stance. Or the heavies could have a power to repair the turrets. This would force people to choose between using their heavies for offense or defense. Though the heavies would probably need to be resistant to +speed buffs.

And neighborhoods are named "Zone 1", "Zone 2", etc. Why not Sector Alpha, Sector Echo, and such to correspond with the pillbox located in them?

And now, with Atlas Park being relatively flat, it's become apparent on day 2 of the Rv event that people have recognized the wonders of taking Superspeed along with the Leaping pool. So now, when hit with an Entangling Arrow or Web Grenade, they don't just Sprint away, they can run like The Flash.

Also, I noticed you can't view the builds of opposing players. I don't like that change at all. But if it is going to stay, it should not happen until after the lackluster combat log is upgraded. Too often I look at the log to see how I was killed, but all I see is something along the lines of, "You were smashed for 500 points of damage." By whom? And with what power? And I don't believe powers that do no damage will show up in the log at all. And many powers with a secondary effect show no indication of it in the log. E.g., the sonic attack's disorient power records the damage, but nowhere does it tell you it disorented you.

PvP in CoX has always had the feel of being added as an afterthought. Unlike the PvE experience where you can assemble a team of whomever's available and find a way to make it work. In PvP, success is predicated upon having the "right build"; and moreover, having the "right team" of the right builds.

I don't think RV "breaks" anything new with PvP in CoX. I just think it exposes even more of what I feel are the core problems in the system (such as the overwhelming utility of the Leaping Pool) that prevent so many builds from feeling like they bring anything to the table in a zone PvP fight.

And unless changes are made to close the gap between the few good "PvP builds" and everything else, I think the PvP experience will continue to be like a cheap whiskey... You drink it because you have it in your cabinet, but you know it's not very good.


 

Posted

that invis bug happend to me too, cant remember how i fixed it


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
My first problem was, the longer I played, the worse my framerate got. After about 45 minutes, I'd have to restart the game. Nobody else claimed to have the problem, but I have it every time. The same actually happens on the live servers, but it takes 3-4 hours in Siren's before I get to the point I must restart.

Second, occasionally when taking the teleporter from the lower level of the base to the upper, I would appear on my screen visually stealthed or invis (a couple of times, I was totally absent from my own view). I wasn't actually stealthed or invis; it was just a visual error (Radeon 9k w/Catalyst 6.5).

Third, after playing for a while, my MM started getting a pop-up when I tried to take control of a heavy telling me you can only control one at a time. But I had none. I had successfully used heavies a number of times before. /release_pets didn't clear the problem. Nor did logging out and back in, or changing instances of RV, or even switching characters then switching back.

Next, I was really disappointed at the so-called "pillboxes" themselves. Technically, pillboxes are small fortifications designed to provide cover for defending forces. I had this wonderful dream that zone PvP was being opened up for the many hero/villain builds that aren't well-suited for City of Grasshoppers. Now, invaders would have to enter small enclosed structures to root out defenders, where getting away if you made things rough for 'em would require more than simply hitting the space bar.

Instead, the "pillboxes" turn out to simply be small frames with a few perceptionless turrets and an itsy bitsy forcefield. Structures, I might add, my henchmen had trouble navigating around. I even found Mako running back and forth a 4' path, over and over and over. The -teleport of the forcefield is nice, but it offers no protection from disorient or hold as people have come to expect from aoe fields. I'm actually fine with that, but if I am required to stay in the itsy bitsy bubble for defense, it needs to also provide protection from knockback and repel. I shouldn't need a pocket kinetic to keep from being ejected from a fully-functional fortification.

Also, while I agree you shouldn't be able to heal turrets, there needs to be some mechanism for them to be repaired. More than once I saw a pillbox taken from a superior group of defenders because the attackers simply ignored the players and attacked the turrets. Yes, they were killed many times while doing it. But they didn't care about debt, and neither will the level 50s on the live servers. As is, the game mechanics allow the attackers to win, but not the defenders.

Perhaps the turrets could regenerate slowly while in passive stance. Or the heavies could have a power to repair the turrets. This would force people to choose between using their heavies for offense or defense. Though the heavies would probably need to be resistant to +speed buffs.

And neighborhoods are named "Zone 1", "Zone 2", etc. Why not Sector Alpha, Sector Echo, and such to correspond with the pillbox located in them?

And now, with Atlas Park being relatively flat, it's become apparent on day 2 of the Rv event that people have recognized the wonders of taking Superspeed along with the Leaping pool. So now, when hit with an Entangling Arrow or Web Grenade, they don't just Sprint away, they can run like The Flash.

Also, I noticed you can't view the builds of opposing players. I don't like that change at all. But if it is going to stay, it should not happen until after the lackluster combat log is upgraded. Too often I look at the log to see how I was killed, but all I see is something along the lines of, "You were smashed for 500 points of damage." By whom? And with what power? And I don't believe powers that do no damage will show up in the log at all. And many powers with a secondary effect show no indication of it in the log. E.g., the sonic attack's disorient power records the damage, but nowhere does it tell you it disorented you.

PvP in CoX has always had the feel of being added as an afterthought. Unlike the PvE experience where you can assemble a team of whomever's available and find a way to make it work. In PvP, success is predicated upon having the "right build"; and moreover, having the "right team" of the right builds.

I don't think RV "breaks" anything new with PvP in CoX. I just think it exposes even more of what I feel are the core problems in the system (such as the overwhelming utility of the Leaping Pool) that prevent so many builds from feeling like they bring anything to the table in a zone PvP fight.

And unless changes are made to close the gap between the few good "PvP builds" and everything else, I think the PvP experience will continue to be like a cheap whiskey... You drink it because you have it in your cabinet, but you know it's not very good.

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While I am getting more and more into PvP, I have to say this really hits the nail on the head.

What's more, there isn't any need to create new artwork for a better pillbow. Use the ones in Bloody Bay. They're much better than the ugly looking bull's eyes that we have now.


 

Posted

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The -teleport of the forcefield is nice, but it offers no protection from disorient or hold as people have come to expect from aoe fields. I'm actually fine with that, but if I am required to stay in the itsy bitsy bubble for defense, it needs to also provide protection from knockback and repel.

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I'd seen reports of Telekinesis being able to push a pillbox/bunker occupant out. Clever, I like the tactic, but maybe the forcefield needs to make it a little less trivial -- grant just a little resistance to mezzes and KB, enough to require a modest amount of mag stacking but still entirely feasible.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, while I agree you shouldn't be able to heal turrets, there needs to be some mechanism for them to be repaired. More than once I saw a pillbox taken from a superior group of defenders because the attackers simply ignored the players and attacked the turrets. Yes, they were killed many times while doing it. But they didn't care about debt, and neither will the level 50s on the live servers. As is, the game mechanics allow the attackers to win, but not the defenders.

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Indiscriminate healing of turrets isn't something I can get behind. But, suicide rushes for characters that don't care about debt anymore shouldn't be encouraged. Maybe if turrets could heal a small amount for each foe defeated by them (or just in the area?).

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Also, I noticed you can't view the builds of opposing players.

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If memory serves, you can't view enemy powers in any PvP zone. I think that's a good thing, actually. I do wish that the combat log would list more consistent info. Anything that affects you should list who generated the effect, what it did, and exactly to what effect (hard numbers please).

One of my major gripes with CoX PvP in general is that it isn't conducive to classic comic book battles. Squishies are too squishy and are instantly singled out and defeated in mass combat. The "real" heroes are apparently tankers and scrappers, because they'll be the last ones standing and the squishies' jobs are simply to buff them and maybe, if they're lucky, lock down some opposing squishies. Yes, I know some defender and controller builds are far more durable, but they seem to be the exception. It never feels heroic to me when I'm playing a squishy in PvP.


 

Posted

I'm going to throw out a few things that I'd like to see changed about the zone.

1) The turrets on pillboxes should regenerate after X amount of time.

2) Decrease Hero/AV resistances a little bit.

3) Improve Hero/AV AI. Many times I've seen the Heros/AVs not attacking anything when they're by a pillbox.

4) Decrease the effectivness of people's perception powers. The signature ability of a stalker (the ability to hide) is severely "gimped" at high levels. I have a stalker, and when I play in RV I no longer feel like a stalker. I feel like a scrapper with low hp.

5) So far I'm going to say thumbs down on the patron power's utility compared to powers like FA for heroes. I need to experience the patrons more though before I can have any real concrete opinion.

6) Seems like there are Longbow Wardens all over the place. I'd rather see small groups of minions/lieutenants than a boss every 50 yards. Maybe mix it up a little bit.

Also, it seems that the heroes have a huge advantage on test. I don't know where to point my finger at for that.


 

Posted

Anyone else getting the "you may only have one heavy at a time" message when you try to get a heavy and you do not already have one? Obviously a bug. Any way around this?


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else getting the "you may only have one heavy at a time" message when you try to get a heavy and you do not already have one? Obviously a bug. Any way around this?

[/ QUOTE ]

It happens when you log out with a heavy still under your control. Just try logging back out, then back in.


 

Posted

The problems I see in PVP:

problem - solution
TP foe - increase animation so caster cant do anything when foe appears.

NRG melee too strong - something as damaging as energy transfer should not stun also. Reduce the damage or eliminate the stun.

Jousting still works - jousting (ie superspeed by with an attack que'd up) still works and sucks. Nuke suppression and add back heavy acc penalties.

Too many tough NPCs - at one I point, I broadcasted "to heck with the heros, worry about the wardens". Too many high level tough mobs in PVE in RV. Worst are the heros/Avs. They are way too strong unless a massive group is in PVP to fight them.

Turrents too slow - a squishy in a turrent is a dead man. A blaster can joust in and kill you and not take a single attack from the turrents as far as I can tell.

Spines scrappers range damage is too good - compared to a dom, they do more damage at range, as well as having mez protection and high health and high defense/resistance.

BFs nuke controls - change BFs to resistance which reduces effect time, not get out free like now.

Controls miss defense toons - not only do they get mez protection, but they cant be hit to overcome it. Mez attacks should not get attack type defenses (like le/sm, fire/ etc).