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Majority rules in this game and the majority of noob PVPers are villians (stalkers mostly) that hang out in Sirens Call getting ticked whenever a stormer shows up. They complain, the Dev's start listening.
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Sadly I find this to be truth in most things. And any good service provider will listen to the majority when they are clamoring for changes. Even if they are whimsical or detrimental to overall service.
The bottom line is retaining and growing your net revenues.
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Yeeeup, bingo. I run a chain of Subways and if I get enough calls demanding we start selling something like Milk (which we don't, just using an example), by god I'm going to start carrying it.
Silly example, but remember this is a business. Do they want to cater to a group of 30 big-time PVPers or the 100's of 10-15 year olds that give up easily?
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I've said pretty much the same thing in a few other threads. Any power that takes a newbie more than a billing cycle to figure out... is going the way of the Dodo. If PvP doesn't become that easy, newbs will go back to playing Counter Strike and yelling BOOM HEADSHOT every 10 seconds.
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue
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pretty much true for all MMO's except guild wars. In GW the devs actually are out there playing with the players and getting feedback from the experienced players on what's too much, and what needs a boost. The devs there are always watching the playoff/championship matches to see if any certain powers are out of hand. if only the devs did that here, pvp balance would be going in the right direction.
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Maybe that's why they are changing assassin strike, amongst other things? 
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the fact of the matter is that there is something of a consensu among informed people who routinely pvp that hurricane was not overpowered because of the number of available counters.
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Independent of whether or not that group IS correct, consensus doesn't equate with correctness. Historically groups have come to form a consensus incorrectly quite often.
I've seen arguments from this group, and I haven't found myself moved by them so far. The fact that there's a consensus within that group doesn't add persuasive force to it. It's clear you and that group disagree with me, and I'm fine with that, but saying, "We're right because we agree," isn't persuasive, particularly since I can think of psychological reasons why such conclusions would be reached.
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not that we're right because we agree.
we're right because we're aware of the legitimate counters.
we've seen them work enough times to know that they do work...unlike many of the people supporting this nerf.
i submit that if you have a consensus among your best-informed pvp population that a power is or is not overpowered, that is some pretty strong evidence. i would weigh this strongly against the opinions of casual pvpers who limit their pvp involvement to PUGs in Siren's Call.
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pretty much true for all MMO's except guild wars. In GW the devs actually are out there playing with the players and getting feedback from the experienced players on what's too much, and what needs a boost. The devs there are always watching the playoff/championship matches to see if any certain powers are out of hand. if only the devs did that here, pvp balance would be going in the right direction.
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[censored] Guild Wars....
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Maybe that's why they are changing assassin strike, amongst other things?
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Besides the one-shot fix what are they chageing about AS?
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue
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Actually, I bet the power in itself never really bothered any of the Dev's.
What did bother them however is the hundreds of whiny posts coming from non-storm users who couldn't AS through the hurricane.
Seriously, that's all it comes down to. Majority rules in this game and the majority of noob PVPers are villians (stalkers mostly) that hang out in Sirens Call getting ticked whenever a stormer shows up. They complain, the Dev's start listening.
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I don't think so. I'm sure you've heard of datamining.
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Actually, I bet the power in itself never really bothered any of the Dev's.
What did bother them however is the hundreds of whiny posts coming from non-storm users who couldn't AS through the hurricane.
Seriously, that's all it comes down to. Majority rules in this game and the majority of noob PVPers are villians (stalkers mostly) that hang out in Sirens Call getting ticked whenever a stormer shows up. They complain, the Dev's start listening.
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I don't think so. I'm sure you've heard of datamining.
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yeah, we've all heard of datamining.
doesn't mean anyone is doing it.
we have no evidence whatsoever as to what informed the devs and prompted them to begin playing with hurricane.
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I completely agree with your wisdom: Hurricane was a melee safe zone. I'm also thankful for you teaching me how Lightning Storm is an immobile ranged-attacker rather than a mobile ranged-attacker. The rest left me feeling a bit embarassed for you; I can only assume your ego forces you to claim things you don't really believe. Which is fine.
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What in the hell are you talking about? Hurricane is FAR from a melee safe zone, your assessment of the Storm set is so offbase it is embarassing. You are arguing points that don't even matter, just to avoid admitting you are wrong about the crux of the argument.
Who gives a [censored] about Snowstorm and whether it is a "ranged" or not? All it does is -speed, and has very limited application in the PvP game anyway. Same with Freezing Rain, who gives a [censored]? The range on it is negligible and it is easily avoided in PvP......the only real application for Freezing Rain is PvP is for the stormer to cast it in his/her immediate vicinity once someone has been immoblized or pushed into a wall or otherwise held.
A storm has NO debuffs against ranged attacks. Zero. A spines scrapper will eat a storm for lunch everyday all day. Same with a spines stalker. Blasters, same story if they're good with plenty of BF's.
Hurricane's debuff before to hit debuff enhancements were nerfed was negligible post 40. Hell, for some builds, before that even....You speak as someone that has MAYBE gotten a storm to mid-20's and now all of a sudden you are an expert. It's obvious you never have had Lightning Storm because you thought it follows you around, LOL. Dude, shut the hell up, you are a wanna be know it all.....You are wrong, stop posting....deal with it. You don't know what you are talking about. Your posts are a waste of space.
At your experience level regarding Hurricane, yes it is much more useful in the 20's and low 30's. However, it quickly becomes outstripped in power as soon as powers like Focused Accuracy come into play....Then, it is just basically a -range and that's about it.....the melee component is gone, people kite through it all day long. Hell, Inv/Em tanks just walk right up and kick your [censored] and Spine stalkers and scrappers could care less, they'll just critical you to death from outside the Hurricane's range. All the other scrappers like Katana and Martial Arts, that Hurricane once affected, now kick your [censored] with Focused Accuracy....and the Ice/Eng blasters just hit build-up/AIM drop your toggles with Total Focus and light your [censored] up in two seconds.....
If anything, Hurricane should INCREASE with level, so that it scales somewhat as other archetypes become stronger.
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Actually, I bet the power in itself never really bothered any of the Dev's.
What did bother them however is the hundreds of whiny posts coming from non-storm users who couldn't AS through the hurricane.
Seriously, that's all it comes down to. Majority rules in this game and the majority of noob PVPers are villians (stalkers mostly) that hang out in Sirens Call getting ticked whenever a stormer shows up. They complain, the Dev's start listening.
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I don't think so. I'm sure you've heard of datamining.
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yeah, we've all heard of datamining.
doesn't mean anyone is doing it.
we have no evidence whatsoever as to what informed the devs and prompted them to begin playing with hurricane.
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The only thing I can think of is base raids. Currently they're a joke. I have a feeling that they're going to try and make them the focus of the next update.
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue
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not that we're right because we agree.
we're right because we're aware of the legitimate counters.
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And I feel the number legtimate counters, combined with what the power did when uncountered, resulted in a power that wasn't balanced in compared to the vast majority of other powers in the game. Something can have counters and still be unbalanced, particularly if the effect is as severe as Hurricane's effect was if it were to go UNcountered.
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we've seen them work enough times to know that they do work...unlike many of the people supporting this nerf.
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I've seen and delt with Hurricane quite a bit. I know your counters work, but in my eyes that's simply not sufficient given how potent it was. Ultimately no amount of repeating, "But there were counters," necessitates that it was balanced. People usually complain for a reason when they do, and things that are much complained about often ARE complained about correctly. It pleases the ego to stand in the face of such complaints and say, "Pfah, I know how to counter such things, you're just not GOOD enough, the game is fine!" That's why so many DO it, after all. Game balance goes beyond simply the inclusion of counters, though. Fun factor is important: being able to spam holds to hold someone forever isn't FUN, even if it's not unbalanced in well prepared team PvP. Thus supression. Being able to kill someone in one shot isn't particularly horrifying in well prepared team PvP, but it isn't FUN, thus the one shot fix. And being repelled against a wall indefinitely (while having your Accuracy and Range debuffed, and possibly knockback effects on top of it) isn't fun, thus this. Proper game balance is clearly intended to involve a fun factor that goes beyond YOUR particular fun. I'm sorry that bothers you guys so.
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i submit that if you have a consensus among your best-informed pvp population that a power is or is not overpowered, that is some pretty strong evidence.
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I feel evidence and consensus never, ever overlap. Evidence is in the fact, not in what people feel about those facts. This is particularly true in light of the fact that the people you are talking about aren't exactly representative of the vast majority of players, having taken PvP to an extreme most people don't want to. Given this game is a product meant to bring about enjoyment, that fact needs to be taken into account also.
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i would weigh this strongly against the opinions of casual pvpers who limit their pvp involvement to PUGs in Siren's Call.
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And that's why I'm very skeptical of your opinion; ultimately you simply don't care about the majority of players and how the game affects them. I do.
To Psypunk (sp?): Your post was pretty hostile within the first sentence or two, so please forgive me for not reading it, much less replying to any potentially very good points you may or may not have made. I'm here for interesting discussion, not to be berated by people angry over a game or what has been said about a game. Sorry. 
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[but I'm sure I'll keep getting insulted anyway because I dared to go against the Consensus.
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Or maybe because all of us MORE experienced PVPers are right?
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Oh Christ, take the joke for what it was subway boy. You take yourself far, far too seriously.
you're trying to make the game like guild wars, dumbed down basic fighting. you're trying to argue that no one wants to think they just wanna sit and press their powers and have their win button. this game is not PvP based so nerfing powers cause people who dont put in the time and dedication others do to figure out tactics is bull and should not be the basis of all PvP powers.
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you're trying to make the game like guild wars
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I'm not trying to make the game like anything, I have no executive control over what does or doesn't happen. Calm thyself.
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you're trying to argue that no one wants to think they just wanna sit and press their powers and have their win button.
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No, no I'm not. Arguing that my case is made because I "don't want people to have to think," is a fallacy.
Hell, if anything you can look at it as Stormers needing to think a bit MORE, eh?
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you're trying to make the game like guild wars, dumbed down basic fighting.
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[censored]? Did you mean to say what you posted? If so, you have no clue about high level PvP in GW.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
i was in beta for a while and hated it and from all the recent stuff ive seen about it you can cahnge from one complete build to another and its target group of gamers is the people who have very little time to play which means everythign must be dumbed down
On that note, I think I am going to depart this conversation. I certainly enjoyed speaking with at least some of you on this matter, but ultimately the bulk of people who I am championing here simply don't come to the forums in the first place, and those that might post in agreement have been shouted down sufficiently at this point to have ceased, so I'm left more or less being lambasted by some very angry, spiteful individuals who simply aren't interested in discussion (with an exception or two, obviously). That, on top of the total ridiculousness of some of the assertions -- such as being told "Stormers dont have ranged powers," and the ridiculous attemps at justification that followed; good for a laugh, but not interesting conversation -- I'm left feeling a bit uncomfortable.
I really am sorry so many of you are so angry about this matter. I'm sorry that you can feel so much anger over a game in the first place. I'm not sorry for feeling the focus of the game's balance should be the majority of players rather than you, however, or for feeling Hurricane simply didn't line up with other powers in terms of effectiveness to counterability ratio. I'm not sorry for thinking it's not FUN for people to be pinned against walls and sitting there, even if in elite team PvP, it can be avoided effectively.
If you are as skilled as you assert to be, however, I've no doubt you will adapt to what happens, and to that extent these angry complaints will be nothing but a slightly embarassing memory for you soon enough, and you'll be asserting once again, "Everything is fine as it is," and getting angry over whatever large change comes next. Good luck, and enjoy any further discussion.
P.S. TerpMan, please stop forum stalking me. It's creepy; you seem to hate me for some reason, fine, but honestly, cut it out, because people shouldn't have to see it. Feel free to send me angry PMs if you really want to.
one more thing, lightning storm is a summoned power so basically the ranged attacks it has are not those of a stormies
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i was in beta for a while and hated it and from all the recent stuff ive seen about it you can cahnge from one complete build to another and its target group of gamers is the people who have very little time to play which means everythign must be dumbed down
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I'll just be polite and say that you are way off base. The tactical depth and competitiveness of GW PvP exceeds what is in CoX by several orders of magnitude. The only thing that CoX has going for it over GW is the speed and freedom of movement.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
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one more thing, lightning storm is a summoned power so basically the ranged attacks it has are not those of a stormies
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didn't you know that lightning storm follows you around and that tornado is a ranged attack? sure it has to get in melee. yeah, your fire imps, thats a ranged attack too! 
no doubt i will adapt, the thing I'm trying to tell you is to not really talk about how storm should be played or how it's supposed to be played if you don't even know what you're talking about. You don't seem to know how any of the powers work, and you're trying to tell someone who's been a stormer from day 1 how the set works. Just walk along, newbie
if i use o2 boost on someone that doesnt want heals does that count as a ranged attack?
omg are you asking me a question? Don't you know i played this game for 2 months i know everything! how dare you adress me!!!!!!!!!!
but i sacrificed a virgin and everything....damn......another missing kid from the neighborhood, im gonna have some questions to answer
I still don't understand why Repel just doesn't generate Suppression.
Changing the tic frequency reduces the effectiveness of Hurricanes DeBuff. Repel fields are probably a little too strong atm, but Storm requires it's Acc and Range debuff to function effectively.
I do NOT consider being required to take a specific Travel Power (Teleport) or bring a buffer of a single powerset (Kinetics) to be an reasonably effective way to counter it.
4 Break Frees is probably a little excessive too. That's 1/5 of the inspiration tray of a level 40+ character, and an even greater proportion of a lower leveled character.
Seriously though, what's wrong with Suppression, or improving the effectiveness of Break Frees on KB and Repel powers?
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
if i have someone locked in place they can pop some BF's and walk away......
freezing rain has a pretty short distance to place it from yourself but summoning it somewhere does not make it a ranged debuff, it makes it a immobile targeted debuff
i can run by someone with a blaster and start TF and hit from range, so is my total focus ranged now?