I predicted this

Foget about PM's, go gather your team if ya have the balls. My global is @thorizdin, don't forget it nub.

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I absolutely agree that kill-to-death ratio is not necessarily a reliable indicator of an imbalance.

[/ QUOTE ] If the balance metric is "risk vs reward," a philosophy that Statesman has preached is one of the fundamental guidelines for changing CoX...then K is probably one of the best metrics to use.

More importantly it shows (depending on when they started keeping score) that despite heroes teaming, they are unable shore the gap between stalkers and say scrappers and blasters.

People are sick of K because it basically throws all the bogus logic and claims they've been making right back in their face. It shows conclusively that "blasters" and scrappers are not doing the same thing as stalkers..not even close.

If stalkers were "balanced" for PvP then why would their K be so much higher "it isn't even funny"?

When you give a toon Stealth, massive unresisted damage, Scrapper level defense, and status protection, and combine it with the escapability of something like Super Jump, you have to be brain dead not to see how it's going to turn out.

The saving grace for the devs is that this was not designed for PvP, but a consequence of PvE. PvP has to deal with mechanics that are necessary for PvE. They devs then go back and try to fix PvP after the fact. Depending on the nature of the imbalance, like 1v1 PvP...somethings are seen as higher or lessor priority. How long has it taken them to stop Hurricane from pinning people in a corner?

The other justification the devs could claim is that their first objective was to create the "stalker experience" and then their second objective is to reconcile that with the rest of the game.

That fact that the K ratio is so massively distorted for stalkers is a undeniable proof that the problem was just what people said it was. It also shows that stalkers were/are in denial and were completely biased in presenting comparisions (surprise surprise). Nobody was doing what stalkers were doing and the devs see it as a problem. That is now a fact and not subject to debate.

K may not be the final tool for fine tuning, but it is spot on at this stage of the game.

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go gather your team if ya have the balls

[/ QUOTE ] No, this is one on one my friend....my skill versus your skill. No leaning on your friends to bail you out.

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go gather your team if ya have the balls

[/ QUOTE ] No, this is one on one my friend....my skill versus your skill. No leaning on your friends to bail you out.

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Level 40 fight, all other options standard, ie nothing checked, sound good?

Let's work this out in a PM.

Grrr as a stalker i hate the idea of having to team in RV, but when the zone opens i am sure it wont be a problem. Stalkers are resourceful and will find a way to solo a ceratin combinations of power or a AT/AT type that will rise in RV and be FoTM. Like lets say IH stalker or mandatory powers for soloing i think of Nin as skipping those not so great PPP options taking caltrops, blinding powder, smoke flash along with common placate should get the job done just not as sneaky as i would like.

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It's mostly dependant on you choosing to solo(and the number of opponents in the zone, of course).
Your experiences of a great deal of kills one night vs. running for your life the next would even out if you were consistently working on a balanced team.

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Actually, I team more than I solo. The point is, even in a team, my MM will be killed some nights on a near constant basis (2-3 minutes spent summoning and buffing, then 30 seconds of play before a blapper 1 shots me). Being in a team doesn't change the fact that on some nights I die with apalling frequency and other nights I can survive massive battles and come out ok. The difference is the AT and build of my opponents, and their skill level. There are a couple of blappers who seem to specifically target me, and will kill me instantly. There are others who actually go out of their way to avoid me in the zone. Being teamed doesn't really change my survivability, because nobody can prevent my being 1 shotted.

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Being teamed doesn't really change my survivability, because nobody can prevent my being 1 shotted.

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Sure it does, get a /Cold Cor for Frostworks and a /Son or /Thermal Cor for shields. *poof* you aren't nearly as squishy as you were a few seconds ago.

yeah and how often do you see those in SC?

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yeah and how often do you see those in SC?

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/em looks at sig

Every night dude.

Ok, I'll give you a shout some night this week and we can meet up in Siren's. Bring your Stalker and I'll show you how I can punch through your defences as if they aren't there. Both with my Tank and my TA/A.

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Grrr as a stalker i hate the idea of having to team in RV

[/ QUOTE ] Yeah..imagine how the heroes feel in BB, SC, and Warburg.

Hamidon 50's have a significant power advantage when compared to 50's only using SO's,and a substantial power advantage vs a level 40 villain. Why deny this? You don't need to crunch numbers to figure this out. If you actually play the game, you're going to see this, so why put things on paper as if attempting to contradict reality??

I'm going to call "shenanigans" on the stalker not using ANY stealth powrs at all and getting 5 kills for every death. Massive kill stealing? Or an EM regen attacking solo defenders?

Much respect if you can seriously do this, but understandably i'm abit skeptical.

SO's are generally slotted at +2 or better.
HO's are slotted at even levels.
SO's are more powerful in regards to raw power.
HO's give more flexibility because you have more slots available.

most folks slot SO's and use HO's for status effects n such.
Like range, mez, etc.

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I'm so tired of hearing the prase "kill to death ratio". This has NO bearing on anything, because any K ratio is relative to not only to your AT and build, but also to your skill and the number of opponents in the zone, their builds, and their skills.


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This is only true on an individual basis - with a large enough statistical sampling over time, it is very meaningful, because skill and numbers can be averaged/normalized out. It is faulty reasoning to assume that an AT dominates PvP due to the skills of its players. To be honest, those ATs perceived as more powerful tend to attract the poor players as they need the extra crutches to survive. Yet those ATs continue to dominate PvP - so there is obviously an imbalance.

Like I said in my other post, PvP is a zero-sum game. If Dominators as a whole have a K ratio of 1:5, then they are likely mechanically disadvantaged, and need to be adjusted if they are to provide any role other than 'victim'. Because folks want to feel effective in PvP. If they are incapable, they don't tend to have fun. If they don't have fun, they don't play that character in PvP - thereby reducing the variety and fun in PvP.

Likewise, if Stalkers have an average K ratio of 5:1, then they are likely mechanically advantaged, and need to be adjusted to allow other folks to have fun too. Else after side switching occurs, all you will see in RV will be 3, maybe 4 hero/villian builds, and neither side will look much different. This does not lend to the vibrant diversity in characters that we see in the PvE game.

What about an Empathy Defender or a Storm Controller? Are they disadvantaged because they are going to have a low kill count while being high priority targets? Of course not, K fails to account for teams (remember what PvP balance is based on).

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Grrr as a stalker i hate the idea of having to team in RV

[/ QUOTE ] Yeah..imagine how the heroes feel in BB, SC, and Warburg.

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You so took a piece of my sentence and turned it into a cheap one upper. after RV was a comma and this is the important part "but i guess it wont be a problem" because in highly active PvP zones like SC for one finding a team even as a stalker is an option. So when RV is crashing from the amount of 50's in the zone finding a team will be an easy task.

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SO's are generally slotted at +2 or better.
HO's are slotted at even levels.
SO's are more powerful in regards to raw power.
HO's give more flexibility because you have more slots available.

most folks slot SO's and use HO's for status effects n such.
Like range, mez, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]Actually, at the point of 50 most SOs are 53s, the HOs are combined for +2. The SO will out perform the HO by a small margin, but the ability of the HO to do two things at once over comes this.

Here is an example, using six slots in a ranged attack. I can slot the first three with damage/accuracy HOs. I can slot the remaining three with range/acc, end/damage, and range/recharge or some other similar combination. The secondary acc and damage effects (though lessened due to ED) are enough to overcome the +1 SO advantage. This would leave me with more damage and accuracy than a hero with three damage/three acc 53 SOs, as well as having the benefit of a recharge, range, and end reducer. And if endurance on the power is low, I can slot more for range and recharge instead. Either way, I'm going to come out on top, even if I don't use the extra damage and accuracy in the forth spot, I still have a better deal due to the other improvements in speed and more frequent attacking.

In short, I can slot four 50++ HOs in one power with dam/acc and that should (if I recall) out do a six slotted three dam/three acc 53 SO combination. If four won't cut it, I'm sure five would, either way, I come out on top for sure. For a level 40 villain, who has even less slots in general, this is going to hurt a fair amount. Now once villains get to 50, it won't be so bad for them, and when they start getting their HOs from Recluse's SF, they will be on even ground, but it's going to take a long time.

Remember that when HOs were nerfed they were given the ability to stack like SOs.

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Grrr as a stalker i hate the idea of having to team in RV

[/ QUOTE ] Yeah..imagine how the heroes feel in BB, SC, and Warburg.

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You so took a piece of my sentence and turned it into a cheap one upper. after RV was a comma and this is the important part "but i guess it wont be a problem" because in highly active PvP zones like SC for one finding a team even as a stalker is an option. So when RV is crashing from the amount of 50's in the zone finding a team will be an easy task.

[/ QUOTE ]I didn't do anything "cheap" with your comment. It was not an attempt to potray you as a whiner, but to show others how unfair the teaming situation is to the heroes in BB, SC, and Warburg. You don't want team in RV...because you dont' have to team in any other zone. Too bad heroes by and large don't have that option.

You expressed a desire that Stalker feel should only apply to them...the desire to solo effectively. The changes we've seen so far, will barely make a dent in the K ratio in places like SC and BB....expect more nerfs.

Question about invis if anyone cares to answer..
What is the perception with Hide + Invis? Would that stop most any heroes from seeing you in the upcoming PvP zone? I understand you cannot attack while Invis is on.

The answers you seek are Here

Whoa. If folks are willing to take 3 dam/acc and combine them into one 52 HO you are right. That is wild.
Do people really do that?
I called the ho combo thingy a secret nerf. It is the fastest way to destroy the most difficult enh to get.
Nowadays it seems a raid takes about an hour.
So they do 3 raids for 3 hours and combine it into a 52HO.
yikes.
THose folks are ccccrrrazy....
I will never combine a HO! lol

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Question about invis if anyone cares to answer..
What is the perception with Hide + Invis? Would that stop most any heroes from seeing you in the upcoming PvP zone? I understand you cannot attack while Invis is on.

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Invisibility is rated at -611 perception. Until you pass level 45, it pushes you to the Stealth cap when combined with Hide.

Because the Perception cap is always 10 feet greater than the Stealth cap even with max Stealth you can be seen at 10 feet away by someone with maxxed Perception.

You can never be totally invisible to someone willing to go all out on perception powers.

No, you should never combine a HO. EVER!! I have seen too many bad things happen to those that do.

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No, you should never combine a HO. EVER!! I have seen too many bad things happen to those that do.



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Yeah i knew guy who knew a guy who did that, Boom ten years later his wife left hmmm.

*Derived from family guy, and editied for a less disgusting read*