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Now you're not only spinning _Castle_'s statements, you're spinning your own.
"...FAR outkilling..." weren't even your own words. They were Lallendos's.
By the way, don't think I did not notice that you edited out the two other times you said Stalkers did not outkill other ATs in Warburg after I called you on that point.
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I don't remember editing out anything. Perhaps you should do as I, and quote things for truth. You can just claim I ghost edited even if I didn't because there is no record of my original post. It would help your arguments and keep your enemy from ghost editing.
As for my spin on my own comments? Umm...I think you are confusing yourself. I had "fixed" Lallendos's generic:
"_Castle_ Has stated that Stalkers are FAR out killing in PVP, versus any other AT. Is it really required for anyone to even argue some of the points after that? "
My fix can be considered my own words can it not? You say "stalkers are always overpowered". I say "stalkers are not always overpowered". So I am using your words just because my statement only added a word?
I like Vort's words. They completely sum up how everyone else should see stalkers, and their mindset. Not that he is the only example. Far from it. And he's not a bad guy, I assume, because the Jerks have a good reputation overall. It was just very easy to see his post on the stalker forum. Kinda flashing at me in neon, and all.
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I like Vort's words. They completely sum up how everyone else should see stalkers, and their mindset. Not that he is the only example. Far from it. And he's not a bad guy, I assume, because the Jerks have a good reputation overall. It was just very easy to see his post on the stalker forum. Kinda flashing at me in neon, and all.
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Of course every stalker thinks like Vort, a "jerk" as you say. People generalize a bit too much.
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All this whining is just funny to me.
Blasters are still going to be one of the better ATs for pvp, but thanks to WW changes hopefully scrappers will catch back up.
You guys have defiance. You have unresistable damage. You have, realisticly, lots of HP for a caster in this game, epic shields, access to PFF or phase, FoN, and Aim + BU.
Blasters are currently and will remain one of the most effective and versatile of the pvp builds, so cut it out with the whining.
In my experience in this game, blasters have been one of the whiniest groups of players in the game, despite regularly being among the most powerfull, both in pvp and pve. I don't know what it is about you guys, but WW and toggle-dropping were both pretty broke. You've been asking for mez protection for 4+ issues now...give it up, it's not gonna happen.
You'll still be highly effective in teams. You'll still be good solo, but will, more and more, fall victim to the old rock-paper-scissors.
Enough with the [censored] crying already. You guys want to cry, go play a tank. That'll make you cry.
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LOL well said. 
Just to add on to this
Ive played every AT COX has to offer. Stalkers and Blasters are quite similar IMO. I love both in PvP
however its a sad fact that stalkers and blasters are PvP on easy mode and thats why you see so many in Sirens. Mad props to the defenders, tanks, khelds, corruptors, etc who do partake in PvP.
Just understand
if youre a blaster
you really do have it just as easy as stalkers do.
We will just have to wait till RV to really complain about anything
I just think PvP will be a whole new ballgame when all said and done.
Just so that my position is understood, i play a stalker and find it really fun. its a nice challenge in PvE to play but as far as PvP, they are over powered, dont even try to argue that.
if they made AS break the -perception of hide like 2 seconds (maybe three, three ust seems a bit too brutal) be4 the attack lands then they would be overpowered at all. make this a PvP only thing.
@TheBro
solo pvp?
Cooler than every single owl EVER.
Hey, it's my opin, and I said should see.....
Oh, and please don't tell me that stalkers require thoughtful, intellectual, and calculating players..... I looked in the stalker boards, and saw everything I hated about WoW, and Lineage2. Sorry, I just don't care to buy into a need for an Ub3r B0y AT in this game. An extreme DPS stealthing class seems to get included in every MMO with PVP. And it ALWAYS spawns issues, real and imagined. And, of course the puberty minded will always migrate to anything that allows them to one (or 1.0001) shot you and/or perpetual gank people.
Don't nerf stalkers! Leave them alone! Just remove them from the game, is all....
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Patron Powers
Villians got some nasty powers for pvp. They can also acess several froms of web grenades (one being a hold, another an AoE Immobilize), which is brutal with -recharge, -speed, -fly, and -jump if the status effect doesn't get ya. All archtypes can get a pet as well.
What I don't understand is why Stalkers get Snipes. I can see them getting a medium blaster attack (i.e. Slug) or a heavy damage attack (hello 20 footers!), but not snipes. That takes abilities away from other ranged villians against powers such as hurricane or force bubble. But I doubt they will crit from hide or there will be a lot of very angry corrupters.
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I PMd Castle asking fore some reassurance that Stalker Snipes would NOT be better then a Blasters and this is his response.
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The Sniper Blast Stalkers get is less than half the base damage of Blaster Snipe attacks, so with Criticals they are almost as good.
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So yes they will be able to crit from hide after a BU but we still have BU and AIM.
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Just a minor aside, how long did it take for you to get a response from Castle after you PM'd him? I send him a couple around noon PST regarding the 75% redundancy of the Dominator Patron Pools and I've still not gotten a peep from the guy.
Maybe I should put 'Stalker' in the subject, he seems to pay attention to that stuff.
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Got lucky and he must have logged on just after I sent it.. abotu half an hour.
Oh, forgot to add:
I don't PVP, never have. I am open to it, but i've learned that only stalkers and only EM/EA or EM/Reg is worth the effort. I don't like losing, and being a lone stalker has the least potential for it. Until I can beat them, i'd only join them.
So I don't PVP ;-)
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Hey, it's my opin, and I said should see.....
Oh, and please don't tell me that stalkers require thoughtful, intellectual, and calculating players..... I looked in the stalker boards, and saw everything I hated about WoW, and Lineage2. Sorry, I just don't care to buy into a need for an Ub3r B0y AT in this game. An extreme DPS stealthing class seems to get included in every MMO with PVP. And it ALWAYS spawns issues, real and imagined. And, of course the puberty minded will always migrate to anything that allows them to one (or 1.0001) shot you and/or perpetual gank people.
Don't nerf stalkers! Leave them alone! Just remove them from the game, is all....
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Heh, wasn't going to tell you that stalkers required thoughtful, intellectual, and calculation players. In fact, I've said the opposite
However, that is just one playstyle, the ones that the puberty minded go to.
I like to challenge myself and start off with an attack like focus, since it makes the fight more enjoyable for both me and my opponent. If any of you have played a stalker using that play style, I can tell you its quite challenging and requires "thoughtful, intellectual, and calculating players". Don't judge me just because I happen to play a stalker.
I will not argue that stalkers are all kiddie minded, unless it's to inflame you. I have to argue though, that those few intelligent, calculating Stalkers will be the absolute most unstoppable force in RV with these patron powers.
I mean it: Balancing a high frontloaded damage, stealther is hell. On everyone.
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I will not argue that stalkers are all kiddie minded, unless it's to inflame you. I have to argue though, that those few intelligent, calculating Stalkers will be the absolute most unstoppable force in RV with these patron powers.
I mean it: Balancing a high frontloaded damage, stealther is hell. On everyone.
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Skillful, calculating stalkers are already hell on everyone...for the heroes in freedom anyway. We are called Lords of the Dead. Nothing like spiking an emp with 6 impales and 2 focuses. Yummy.
If the competition is good, we field a stalker/corr team. If the competition sucks, we whip out our corrs and retake Siren's Call.
I play mainly brutes, but I also have 2 30+ stalkers and play a couple different corruptors so I thought I give my perspective on this.
First off, most villians agree that the patron powers are garbage overall and not nearly as good the hero powers. Why is it we can see this, but you can't? Besides stalker's patron powers all the other's are lamo. What does my brute need a pet for? A ranged attack? BAH. Unless these pets have a 100% rate of buffing us with something useful, are somewhat tough and have a decent recharge timer for when they inevitably get killed fast then they completely suck buns and are more a hassle than anything.
Dominators get royally shafted again.
Corruptors? Sure don't get as good of powers as the closest equivalent of a blaster.
Everyone carries BF's in pvp, and if they don't then that's their problem. I think all the BF talk is mute. My friggin brute carries a half tray of BF's because blasters come and 1-2 shot my toggles off and stun me in about the span of 1-2 seconds leaving me in big trouble. 1-2 controllers drop my toggles in a couple seconds etc. Only way I can beat a blaster in melee is if I have BF's on hand. If said blaster wises up and uses a few ranged attacks first or after initial melee attack they can still beat me even with my BF's used.
I've been killed by blasters with all ranged attacks. Sure, it wasn't almost instant death, but they can do it.
As for stalkers, well I believe hide is being dropped to 75% strength or perhaps its placate's strength. Either way it will take less perception to se a stalker so far as I know, at least after initial attack and placate.
Stalkers can drop anyone 1 vs 1. Yes, they are easy to kill others with 1 vs 1, BUT, they're very hard to play against any effective team. I can't count how many times I've gone agaisnt a team of heroes or villians stackign +perception powers and been totally ineffective. So these points you make about not seeing stalkers is kinda mute in a team setting. And if you think you should be able to kill stalkers out of a team setting, my argument is who can and why should you be able to? Stalkers against teams are almost totally worthless. 1 vs 1, well that's the risk you take being the AT you are. My brute at least once or twice a night gets 2-3 shotted in war. I deal with it.
How many times do you see 8 man stalkers teams running around? I have never seen more than 3-4 together and these were players that knew each otehr well. It's not a team oriented AT.
Based off what I see, so long as both heroes and villians keep BF's handy in the 40+ zones then heroes overall have the decided advantage in a big way. My /EA brute will be cannon fodder to scrappers with FA. Blasters get FoN and Temp Invulnerability and PFF if I remember right?
Take an honest look at the villian APP's and tell me in a completely honest way that our powers are as good as the heroes. The real answer is you can't because they aren't.
With alot of your hero powers they work regardless of BF's at helping you. Look at the villian APP's closely.
I'll take my brute for example. Ranged attack, big deal, without full fury probably does medium damage meaning not much.
AoE Immobilize, that's kinda cool, BF's will negate that power. You can;t negate FA with a BF. OR CP for that matter, of FoN, or Temp INV etc etc etc.
3rd power in anything other than pve setting, big deal
Pets. Unless they are like what I previously stated they will be trivial and not worth using most of the time and certainly not what my brute or most any other villian AT needs. Who knows. Maybe they will be fairly tough, do decent damage and 100% buff us with something useful. MY opinion? I seriously doubt it.
Compare scrapper epic to brute APP. Scrapper>
blaster to corruptor. Blaster>
Controller to dominator. Controller>
any Coh to MM. >
I would take FA, CP or other powers over what we are getting any day of the rest of time as we know it. Or FoN, PFF on corruptors/dominators for that matter.
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Patron Powers
Villians got some nasty powers for pvp. They can also acess several froms of web grenades (one being a hold, another an AoE Immobilize), which is brutal with -recharge, -speed, -fly, and -jump if the status effect doesn't get ya. All archtypes can get a pet as well.
What I don't understand is why Stalkers get Snipes. I can see them getting a medium blaster attack (i.e. Slug) or a heavy damage attack (hello 20 footers!), but not snipes. That takes abilities away from other ranged villians against powers such as hurricane or force bubble. But I doubt they will crit from hide or there will be a lot of very angry corrupters.
[/ QUOTE ]
I PMd Castle asking fore some reassurance that Stalker Snipes would NOT be better then a Blasters and this is his response.
[ QUOTE ]
The Sniper Blast Stalkers get is less than half the base damage of Blaster Snipe attacks, so with Criticals they are almost as good.
[/ QUOTE ]
So yes they will be able to crit from hide after a BU but we still have BU and AIM.
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Just a minor aside, how long did it take for you to get a response from Castle after you PM'd him? I send him a couple around noon PST regarding the 75% redundancy of the Dominator Patron Pools and I've still not gotten a peep from the guy.
Maybe I should put 'Stalker' in the subject, he seems to pay attention to that stuff.
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LOL
Subject: WOW Stalker PPs are great! Quick question though....
Post: WHY ARE THE DOM PPs SO REDUNDANT?!?!?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In all seriousness I wouldnt expect a quick respone--he's probably getting HAMMERED with PMs right now.
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My sentiments on the dom powers too, I don't see any reason to get them on my dom, unless they do something utterly fantastic. They seem like a total waste.
On Justice
ya, same thing with a group of blappers.
Anytime you have good players playing, some1 is going to die lol
For as many times as a stalker has killed me, i killed them 2 times. waht makes me mad about them is that they can so easily and mindlessly kill other players.
to combat this feeling of impending doom, i made a stealth blapper.....they wont know what hit them.
@TheBro
solo pvp?
Cooler than every single owl EVER.
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stalkers should never be doing blaster damage...
Blasters are the damage juggernauts.
I dont want any freakin mez protection or anything, just want to be the most damaging AT again.
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Stuff like this is just stupid. "omg, someone took my lolipop from me!" Dude...the villians needed a high-damage AT to counter blasters. Get over it.
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_Castle_ Has stated that Stalkers are FAR out killing in PVP, versus any other AT. Is it really required for anyone to even argue some of the points after that?
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Ooooh, ooh, I can! *waves hand!* Because most pvp atm occurs in Sirens Call, which is the kiddy pool of pvp and is most especially NOT balanced. I've been lambasted at times for calling SC "not real pvp", but I stand by that claim. If everyone wants to hang out there and be stalker food, that's their business. See my sig for more thoughts on this.
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We will just have to wait till RV to really complain about anything
I just think PvP will be a whole new ballgame when all said and done.
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Me too! Thank you! SHeesh!
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Once you admit that Stalkers are broken, i'll quit saying it. They are broken. Wlecome to the world of Issue 2 regen scrappers.
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Someone needs to read the post in my sig.
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Oh, forgot to add:
I don't PVP, never have. I am open to it, but i've learned that only stalkers and only EM/EA or EM/Reg is worth the effort. I don't like losing, and being a lone stalker has the least potential for it. Until I can beat them, i'd only join them.
So I don't PVP ;-)
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So....shut the hell up about pvp balance?
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to combat this feeling of impending doom, i made a stealth blapper.....they wont know what hit them.
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Unless they brought perception to the zones to deal with stalkers...in which case they'll be all "look at this blapper trying to sneak up on us...let's pound him!"
HIghly entertaining thread for me...some random whiners, some ppl who think they have good points, and a few voices of reason. The 2-page discussion over how to spin Castles comments was very funny.
In general, I have to repeat my earlier sentiment, Blappers are still the #1 or #2 duelists in the game CoH side, it's time to stop whining about the #1 pvp AT villian side.
* crosses pvping off his to do list *
*crosses the 400 rep badge from his to do list *
your are 100% right in saying that the villain side needs a high damage AT, I play a stalker and I love them. the problem is that they have scrapper-level defence and mez protection as well as the best stealth ability in the game.
Also, to say that one shouldnt go into SC because of stalkers...well, that just proves my point more, thank you for that.
All in all youre spouting random crap and trying to make it sound like ligit info.
/debunked
@TheBro
solo pvp?
Cooler than every single owl EVER.
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Let them come. My BS/Reg scrapper has Focused Accuracy and Tactics.
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It is so funny it makes me cry. Even if you get to the perception cap, a stalker at the stealth cap can only be seen from like 10 feet away. Stalkers in their 40s will be at the stealth cap more often than not. Snipes generally have a range of 150 feet. When you keep pressing the hospital button because you are dying to attacks you never saw coming from an enemy who can do massive critical damage at extreme range, your little dinky metal stick will not look as good.
I could be wrong (and hope I am), but I am thinking Stalkers + Snipes = not the brightest idea I have seen.
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I think you missed the post below the OP where _Castle_ was quoted as saying that the Stalker snipe will do less than half the damage a blasters snipe does and almost as much with a critical. That just isn't alot of damage. I don't think the snipe will have any effect on PVP. I don't think it would be a good idea for a Stalker to give away his position, that would go against their strengths.
ya, ive come to terms with the snipe, If i can get personal force field and FoN then they should get crappy snipes.
@TheBro
solo pvp?
Cooler than every single owl EVER.
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All in all youre spouting random crap and trying to make it sound like ligit info.
/debunked
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Gee...you want them to balance the game around a level cap of...30? So...given that the actual level cap is 50, high level duelers should be really, really unbalanced just so Sirens Call can be fair?
Yeah...makes sense. *rolls eyes*
Think you debunked yourself there, actually.
Check the sig thread if you want serious reading on stalkers, kid.
I thought about this a bit today, and i still hold to my point that a solo stalker will not be more then an annoyance with a snipe. teams of them will be able to gank whole teams risk free though.
That said, whole teams of stalkers will not be that common. It's like the discusions about all defender teams/sg's. Someone started an all kinetics corruptor/brute only sg a while back, and they can blow through anything pve with no effort. However, that isnt all that common.
I think it was Koharu that was giving examples about how their sg would spike players with 6 impales etc....these groups do exist, they arent the most common but they exist.
In general, I dont think the stalker snipe gank patrols will come to rule all of pvp....but there will be a few sg/friends list teams put toghther that will use the tactic, and reape the no risk rewards of it. Just as there are a few all defender sg's, there will sprout a few all stalker villain groups.
The real question is, how much can one of these groups hurt the pvp balance/player experiance/etc? I think it is a bad idea myself, giving stalkers some range to use to finish off people AS didnt get etc would be fine. Giving them a ranged attack with high inherant acc and a range enhancable to 10x the perception range of their foes is a little much.
Oh and to whoever was asking what good some ranged atacks would do a brute... its all about the attack chain and building fury. Being able to hit foes at range will make building the bar all the easier.
Liberty server
Eldagore lvl 50 Inv/ss, co-founder of The Legion of Smash
3.5 servers of alts....I need help.
May the rawk be with you.
Arc #'s
107020 Uberbots!
93496 A Pawn in Time
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teams of them will be able to gank whole teams risk free though.
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That's already the case in Siren's and BB with teams of 3 spines/ stalkers.
It's nuts - 3 spines/SR stalkers end PvP - it just becomes a bounty-harvest for the team. You come to expect no resistance. And the squishy heroes aren't even aware that the PvP has stopped, because they're only dying one-at-a-time and they may even have superior numbers. It gets to the point where you deliberately leave the Stormie alive, to keep the heroes from scattering - to keep them thinking they have some protection.
They(the squishies) only live until the stalker trio chooses to kill them. They don't have the perception to see them. They don't have the means to stop them. It's a joke.
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That said, whole teams of stalkers will not be that common.
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Does that even matter? 3 spines/ stalkers don't need a corruptor, brute, dominator, or MM. Go make a stalker. What do you lose in PvP? What's the trade-off?
Nothing.
You have 100% invisibility past 10 feet.
100% defense to all.
100% range debuff to all enemies(with stacked GIs).
And the burst damage to kill 3 of 5 ATs instantly.
Teams of three Spines/ stalkers aren't that common yet in BB and SC - and they won't be - not with stalkers getting snipes.
Everybody becomes a Spine/ in RV.
Where does that leave brutes, MMs, and Doms?
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All in all youre spouting random crap and trying to make it sound like ligit info.
/debunked
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Gee...you want them to balance the game around a level cap of...30? So...given that the actual level cap is 50, high level duelers should be really, really unbalanced just so Sirens Call can be fair?
Yeah...makes sense. *rolls eyes*
Think you debunked yourself there, actually.
Check the sig thread if you want serious reading on stalkers, kid.
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on some alternate plane of exsistence, that may (just may) have made sense.
I also love how you put the phrase "I want them to balance the game around a level 30 cap so that lvl 50 duelers are unbalanced" into my mouth.
*shrugs* maybe you were just a little confused. lol
@TheBro
solo pvp?
Cooler than every single owl EVER.
Ah...I see you're one of these people more interested in forum dueling and rhetoric than the actual point of the conversation.
I have a feeling I was perfectly understood...but keep feeling good about your witty comments.
To put it in Dick and Jane terms for you:
PvP balance based around = Teams + High level players.
No amount of whining, witty repartee, or clever dialogue is going to change these facts as laid down by the Devs.
See my above post. Cryptic has to do something to keep potential WoW players. God knows that the 14 yr old mentality is totally ADHD.