Fury_Flechette:
You ignored quite a few things to be able to say
[ QUOTE ]
Further, most blasters get ranged holds, defenses and additional nukes. I think in the 40+ game, stalkers will have to be, oh, I don't know, a bit more skilled.
[/ QUOTE ]
1) All Stalkers have Mez Resistance of one form or another. This completely negates Blasters' ranged holds. So your first point is moot.
2a) While Blasters get some defensive powers in the Ancillary sets, they have absolutely no Mez Resistance except that which is available in the Power Pools. With the sole exception of Force of Nature, any Mez will detoggle a Blaster's Ancillary defensive toggles.
2b) Stalkers' Patron Powers included ranged Mez powers. This means what little defensive powers Blasters have will be rendered more or less moot.
Great_Scott:
Over on the Defender board, you defended Stalkers' killing everyone in sight in PvP because they're "PvP specialists". Here, though, you're saying the problem with villain ATs in PvP is that they're not specialized enough. You did not specifically exclude Stalkers in that analysis in this thread.
Which is it?
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
[ QUOTE ]
Annoyances to Stalkers?
Tanks
Defenders
[/ QUOTE ]
I always thought the annoyances were Blasters and Scrappers.
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The one thing I am happy about is Castle finally realized how dominant stalkers have been across all servers in pvp compared to other villians and heroes.
[/ QUOTE ]
It doesn't help that most of the villains in the zones are Stalkers who hit-n-run on Defenders and Controllers.
------------------------------
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When you keep pressing the hospital button because you are dying to attacks you never saw coming from an enemy who can do massive critical damage at extreme range, your little dinky metal stick will not look as good.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would've first asked if they've ever died to a single base-damage Blaster Snipe. If they said "yes," then I'd have carried on as you did. If "no," which is the most likely answer, I'd have stopped there.
As for the whole Stealth Cap thing? You'll definitely see a Stalker, once they use their Snipe.
[ QUOTE ]
I could be wrong (and hope I am), but I am thinking Stalkers + Snipes = not the brightest idea I have seen.
[/ QUOTE ]
A critical Stalker Snipe deals less damage than a base Blaster Snipe.
Can blasters stop crying that they have it the worst? Dominators get the shortest end of the pvp stick. Every AT with the exception of Dominators has access to some form of non-powerpool mez protection.
Edit: My bad. Thought FoN provided mez protection. Guess not.
Kahoru:
What "non-powerpool mez protection" do Blasters get again?
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
Edited:
Whoops. My bad. Your APPs aren't as godly as I thought. Only demi-god like. Doesn't change my stance that blasters aren't as bad off as doms.
FoN?
Force of Nature?
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!
Try again.
Force of Nature has NO Mez Protection in it. NONE. Zilch. Nada. Rien. Nothing.
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
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Just a minor aside, how long did it take for you to get a response from Castle after you PM'd him? I send him a couple around noon PST regarding the 75% redundancy of the Dominator Patron Pools and I've still not gotten a peep from the guy.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, I just don't have a good answer for you. I didn't design the Patron Powers, so I'm not 100% on the design philosophy used.
Also, I tend to not respond to "Why did you guys do XXXX?" PMs because it rarely does anything but get more "But why...." PMs. Perhaps that isn't fair, but I really cannot spend much time justifying things, especially when I'm not 100% conversant on the topic. I *do* read them, but rarely respond.
[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't really expect a response (but I'm quite glad I got one! Motivated to play my doms again!), so I tried to make my question as simple and direct, (and answerable!) as possible. Any kind of "why" question directed to a dev in a PM will, I suspect, not get an answer.
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
Its hard for me to see the words when they are in red. My bad.
Oh well, at least blasters still have high damage. While holds are a reasonable form of damage mitigation in PvE, BFs are carried by every squishy AT. So you still don't have a right to cry.
I also suppose PFF and repulsion fields are quite handy tools for damage mitigation. Doms get...what? A shield, debuff, and a pet. YAY!
Kahoru:
I love when when you members of the Stalker Defense League come here to troll the Blaster Board, get proven dead-wrong by one of us, and then act like you were right all along.
Face it. I demolished the one sad point you were trying to make.
Now you're just flailing around, grasping at straws.
Go troll some other board.
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
I've been had. The secrets out. Now let me go back to headquarters of the Stalker Defense League and plot my next move to infiltrate NCSoft and give stalkers AoE Mag 99 Disorients.
But guess what? Read all my posts in this thread. Not ONE of them tries to defend stalkers. Not one. Way to go and just assume that I'm defending stalkers. I'm asking you whiners to stop making threads going:
"DOOOOOOOOOM FOR BLASTERS!!!!! OMGBBQ WE GOT SHAFTED AGAIN", when there are ATs that are worse off. In these series of posts that I made, I was showing that blasters are far from becoming useless in pvp.
But obviously pointing out Doms are worse off than blasters is a stalker defense post and thus I am trolling.
Heh. Another blaster putting words into the mouth of a guy who plays stalkers. Sometime I wonder whats wrong with the blaster mentality. You guys are like adults who were beaten as children and flinch when a guy waves his hand to say "hi".
When someone who's got a FOTM PvP Stalker Build comes along to the Blaster Board and out-and-out lies about Blasters' capabilities--whether it's claiming that they were one-shotted by a Snipe or that Blasters have Mez Protection--I assume they're doing so on purpose and with the intention to deceive.
I'm sorry, but I've seen far too many of you spreading lies either about your own supposed weaknesses or others' supposed strengths, and I've caught far too many of you actually flat-out, bald-faced lying to others on these boards.
I've spent the last few months debunking lie after lie, claim after claim, myth after myth being put out invariably by people playing Stalkers.
I'm sorry, but as a group, you guys lie too much on the boards. I've caught so many others in exactly your position, Kahoru, that I'm not willing to extend you any benefit of the doubt. You can blame your brethren for that if you were "simply mistaken".
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
[ QUOTE ]
When someone who's got a FOTM PvP Stalker Build comes along to the Blaster Board and out-and-out lies about Blasters' capabilities--whether it's claiming that they were one-shotted by a Snipe or that Blasters have Mez Protection--I assume they're doing so on purpose and with the intention to deceive.
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Weird...I don't recall ever saying that I have been 1-shotted by a snipe...because I haven't, not as a stalker. My assumption that FoN had mez protection was a mistake, and I've corrected myself.
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I'm sorry, but I've seen far too many of you spreading lies either about your own supposed weaknesses or others' supposed strengths, and I've caught far too many of you actually flat-out, bald-faced lying to others on these boards.
[/ QUOTE ]
Interesting. So anyone who plays a stalker must be a liar? Generalize much? I've caught several blasters in outright lies about their own capabilities. For example, 1 said that hitting BU+Aim was the blaster damage cap. The same guy said that BU+Aim+Snipe could not 1-shot a MM, only to be corrected by Zen_Concern right after that. You yourself posted a series of suggested methods of "balancing" stalkers. I've also seen blasters make posts saying that Assassin strike should drain a stalker of all his endurance. Even a stalker hater like you could see how that would be killing the AT. So, do you fit into this category? Should I assume that you underplay the blaster's PvP utility?
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I've spent the last few months debunking lie after lie, claim after claim, myth after myth being put out invariably by people playing Stalkers.
I'm sorry, but as a group, you guys lie too much on the boards. I've caught so many others in exactly your position, Kahoru, that I'm not willing to extend you any benefit of the doubt. You can blame your brethren for that if you were "simply mistaken".
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My "brethren" and I (with the exception of people who bought CoV first), were almost ALL scrapper players. We all had the idea that stalkers were CoV's scrappers, given the almost identical primary and secondary sets. But I can see that blasters also don't trust scrappers. Its this self-depricating mentality that you people have. Justified as it may be, "you people" whine too much.
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Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
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=?
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Oh, are you kidding me? Stalkers are going to get a snipe attack that does critical hit damage....The same damage that's currently NOT resistable in game?
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I could've sworn it was stated that they can crit from Hide. Not that the entire thing was critical damage. So, yes. HALF of it will be the same damage that's currently NOT resistable in-game.
[/ QUOTE ]
1. Stalker crits don't appear to be unresistable. Only Stalker Assassination Strikes have that attribute.
2. It's based around their ranged damage scalar, and as a result, does much less damage than a Blaster Snipe. Even with a crit, it won't be OMGing you.
[/ QUOTE ]
1. Assassin Strike applies a 6(?) bonus of unresistable damage, not unresistable critical like scrappers. For example, if a stalker can normally AS for 110, and 10 points are resisted, then the hit will look like:
Stalker hits you for 100 points of damage!
Stalker assassin strikes you for 600 points of damage!
2. A stalkers other attacks are twice damage after resist, so if a stalker hits normally for 100 and 30% is resisted, it would look like:
Stalker hits you for 70 points of damage!
Stalker critical hits you for an additional 70 points of damage!
Scrapper criticals are different. If they can hit for 100 and 30% is resisted, then it will look like:
A scrapper hits you for 70 points of damage!
A scrapper hits you for an additional 100 points of damage.
Basically a scrapper get's full unresisted damage on the critical and the damage after resisted.
To the two above duking it out...chill out.
My take on this..... someone said you will see the stalkers if you have FA and whatever plus perception.... I would have to say I doubt it.
My biggest issue here is that stalkers will have access not to just a snipe, but moonbeam. moonbeam has insane range, i believe only psychic lance from psi blast has it outdone and only by 10 yds.
Now, the theoretical 8 man stalker snipes.....worst case scenario, they all have moonbeam, they all put two or maybe even 3 range SO's into it. I dont care what +perception you have, you will not see this gank squad.
I dont think a solo stalker will be more then an annoyance with a snipe. The snipe wont KO you, but someone mentioned "you will see them after they snipe" well, maybe, but only briefly while they SJ/SS away and re-hide. Problem is, if it is a 8 man squad, it wont matter that you see them you will be on the way to the hosp. If 8 of them eat a red or two, and hit build up, I am not sure a tanker would hold up against that.
But, like someone else said, when it is on test some of these scenarios can be played out and we wil see. My experiance in pvp is people play not dirty, though it can be seen that way, but people play to win. And if this tactic becomes easy kills, people will migrate towards it. "lft for stalker sniping" or some such phrase will start showing up in broadcast.
On the side, I can see the thinking behind it...in pve it fits well, you are an assasin, sniping (like headshots) fits the concept. bBut this game is continually being "balanced" for pvp, and i just cant see how snipes and min/max can live together this time.
Liberty server
Eldagore lvl 50 Inv/ss, co-founder of The Legion of Smash
3.5 servers of alts....I need help.
May the rawk be with you.
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93496 A Pawn in Time
You have a good point there Eldagore.
Unless my math is wrong, its actually more beneficial to use the inherent ranged attacks in the primary powers than to use Moonbeam. One strategy my team employs is using ventrilo to spike certain targets with several ranged criticals. Few ATs can survive 8 criticaled Impales and focuses.
While the sniper powers have longer range, they do just as much, or even less damage, than impale/focus. In the end, the range doesn't make up for the benefit focus/impale get from being uninterruptible and fast animating (focus, anyways).
So, the heroes won't have to really worry about sniping gank squads. The good pvp zone villain teams won't need to rely on the snipes. Impale and focus are just as good, or even better.
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I'm sorry, but Stalkers should not be getting access to any Snipe powers.
They certainly should not be able to critical with them.
The best ranged "epic" powers the hero melee ATs get is no powerful than the Power Blast / Lightning Bolt / Ice Blast level (tier 2?), and Stalkers already have Assassin's Strike available to them.
This isn't just profoundly unfair from a Blaster's point of view. If I were a Tanker or a Scrapper, I'd be righteously pissed off.
[/ QUOTE ]
Considering how Stalkers have less HP than a blaster it doesn't bother me at all. I have a better chance taking out a stalker than I do a blaster as a tank, with or without a snipe.
Good point...however, I think you underestimate just how far a two or three range SO moonbeam will carry. The other non interuptable attacks are more effective dmg wise, but if a line of stalkers fires off 8 moonbeams, it will be possibly LESS effective for dmg, BUT, will be effective enough to do the job, WITH ZERO RISK!! By the time the poor sniped souls team sees where the snipes came from, much less travel the distance to close for combat, the whole squad of stalkers can be hundreds of yds away and rehidden setting up the next target.
Its not the tactic itself I am against, its the zero risk factor. the devs have basically eliminated the zero risk stuff from pve, introducing somthing like that into pvp at this point is asking for trouble.
Liberty server
Eldagore lvl 50 Inv/ss, co-founder of The Legion of Smash
3.5 servers of alts....I need help.
May the rawk be with you.
Arc #'s
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93496 A Pawn in Time
This is bull **** not only did the devs over nerf toggle dropping, they nerfed WW too. After Statesman the politician subtly vaguely hinted that there was something speical about WW in the mean time blaster problems still persist. To top it off they gave stalkers snipe powers so now they dont even have to be in melle to do thier incredible damage what kind of monkeys are coming up with these ideas.
It's their game it's thier rules we just play in it I guess, screw promoting AT diversity in pvp zones time to roll up a stalker and add one more stalker to the 1 gazillion population of the AT
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Fury_Flechette:
You ignored quite a few things to be able to say
[ QUOTE ]
Further, most blasters get ranged holds, defenses and additional nukes. I think in the 40+ game, stalkers will have to be, oh, I don't know, a bit more skilled.
[/ QUOTE ]
1) All Stalkers have Mez Resistance of one form or another. This completely negates Blasters' ranged holds. So your first point is moot.
2a) While Blasters get some defensive powers in the Ancillary sets, they have absolutely no Mez Resistance except that which is available in the Power Pools. With the sole exception of Force of Nature, any Mez will detoggle a Blaster's Ancillary defensive toggles.
2b) Stalkers' Patron Powers included ranged Mez powers. This means what little defensive powers Blasters have will be rendered more or less moot.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry CB, but I just see things differently. Blaster + empath > stalker. If it's a skilled team, blaster + empath > multiple stalkers. I've seen it done.
Being able to mez isn't that great unless you can stack lots of them quickly. In the duration of the single break free, a skilled blaster can take out that mezzing stalker who is now out of hide. Blasters don't have to worry about toggles, they just pop the pill and fire back.
Also, stalker mez protection can easily be dropped. The same technique used to detoggle that scrapper can be used on a stalker. Throw a hold, detoggle the mez protection, hold takes effect, finish him off. I've seen it done countless times.
Fire shield, temporary invulnerability, body armor is far from junk. It means that the AS that is meant to kill you doesn't.
The problem with those APP shields are that blasters are so very easily mezzed and down goes those toggles, bf's run out quick and empaths are not always available to team with. I dont have a problem with alot of the changes even the major toning down of togle dropping but the nerfing of WW is definately going to severily screw up my survivality.
I have a dumb question though if AS happens to drop the shield does that mean I get full damage or I'm still protected from the full damage since AS occurred a split second before the shield got toggled off. And also I thought that AS was 100% unresistable so in this case having the shield really doesn't matter.
All this whining is just funny to me.
Blasters are still going to be one of the better ATs for pvp, but thanks to WW changes hopefully scrappers will catch back up.
You guys have defiance. You have unresistable damage. You have, realisticly, lots of HP for a caster in this game, epic shields, access to PFF or phase, FoN, and Aim + BU.
Blasters are currently and will remain one of the most effective and versatile of the pvp builds, so cut it out with the whining.
In my experience in this game, blasters have been one of the whiniest groups of players in the game, despite regularly being among the most powerfull, both in pvp and pve. I don't know what it is about you guys, but WW and toggle-dropping were both pretty broke. You've been asking for mez protection for 4+ issues now...give it up, it's not gonna happen.
You'll still be highly effective in teams. You'll still be good solo, but will, more and more, fall victim to the old rock-paper-scissors.
Enough with the [censored] crying already. You guys want to cry, go play a tank. That'll make you cry.
[ QUOTE ]
All this whining is just funny to me.
Blasters are still going to be one of the better ATs for pvp, but thanks to WW changes hopefully scrappers will catch back up.
You guys have defiance. You have unresistable damage. You have, realisticly, lots of HP for a caster in this game, epic shields, access to PFF or phase, FoN, and Aim + BU.
Blasters are currently and will remain one of the most effective and versatile of the pvp builds, so cut it out with the whining.
In my experience in this game, blasters have been one of the whiniest groups of players in the game, despite regularly being among the most powerfull, both in pvp and pve. I don't know what it is about you guys, but WW and toggle-dropping were both pretty broke. You've been asking for mez protection for 4+ issues now...give it up, it's not gonna happen.
You'll still be highly effective in teams. You'll still be good solo, but will, more and more, fall victim to the old rock-paper-scissors.
Enough with the [censored] crying already. You guys want to cry, go play a tank. That'll make you cry.
[/ QUOTE ]
it's to my understanding that scrappers are at the top of the pvp food chain if not one of the top ones so go cry somewhere else.
Btw I think you got that back words sir blasters are not the whiniest AT, I think scrappers and tanks are the masters at that. And really from all the results so far I'm quite convinced that this is true.
Ohh and yeah we asked for mezz protection and got ignored back in I1 or I2 scrappers b1tched like little girls got crits and became boss killers and just recently got a boost to thier base damage yet you forgot to mention that jack.
Tankers whined for more damage and got it, then turned around and b1tched at the fact that blasters got unstoppable which lead to it's watered down version of FON. So please stop with the hypocrisy
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Further, most blasters get ranged holds, defenses and additional nukes. I think in the 40+ game, stalkers will have to be, oh, I don't know, a bit more skilled. I think that will be good for the game and hopefully we'll see something other than just stalkers in the PvP zones.
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I agree with you, this will seperate the skilled players from the wannabes who run their mouths in the pvp zones because they feel uber.
A stalker should be skilled at what he or she does, it should not be a simple go to boom your dead type of build.
I personally like the 1 shotting now, but I hope they do fix it soon so it takes at least 2 shots, giving everyone a chance to heal up.
That way we will see how good most of these stalkers are, when it requires more then one push of a button.
[/ QUOTE ]
It does take 2 shots to drop my blaster. I just don't have enough inspiration slots to hold that many respites. Nor do said respites matter when I can't do anything (ie patron holds or EM).
On another note:
1vs1
Who is affected by these powers: Defenders, Controllers, Blasters
Who is not: Scrappers, Tanks
Who can hurt a stalker?
Blasters (Who in the end game against any stalker, sans possibly DA, running their lvl 38 power will loose. yes ive been AS'd in an ice storm)
Scrappers
Controllers (see blaster)
Annoyances to Stalkers?
Tanks
Defenders
My 1 ingrained to the set defense I had against stalkers has just been taken away. Thanks Devs.
Also of note ALL villian sets recieved an immob or hold in their patron sets. I sincerely hope hero ancillary sets get looked at for usefulness.
At this rate I see PvP zones being more and more populated by Scrappers and a few defenders buffing them. Occasional tanks and trollers (mostly storms)
The one thing I am happy about is Castle finally realized how dominant stalkers have been across all servers in pvp compared to other villians and heroes.
[/ QUOTE ]I am somewhat a little concerned at how Stalkers will be in the 40+ game, there are already far too many Stalkers in SC and WB, it will get just as bad in RV and those /SR Stalkers with snipe, stealth and GI (from someone else) are going to be the most annoying because: they are hard to hit, they are hard to see and keep targetted, they have perma-PB, they have elude and quickness.
I also learned that things like immob, hold and KB (and even confuse, taunt and fear) protection is becoming pretty much a requirement to PvP with no matter what AT it is, so I have been picking up CJ, acro, assault and tactics on all my toons (except Scrapper, certain Brutes and Stalker) that I plan to PvP with and unfortunately that kind of hurts the versitaility of powers I can choose.
Here kid...*tosses Bikini 2 influence*...go buy yourself some punctuation.
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Also of note ALL villian sets recieved an immob or hold in their patron sets. I sincerely hope hero ancillary sets get looked at for usefulness.
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Yea, I know those hero APPs sucks. [censored] them for putting in useless powers like PFF, Force of nature, repulsion field. My Corr would love FoN, but I get a cheesy hold and a pet. Whoopdedoo. Fear the uber fortunata mistress.
I was also hoping for body mastery-like powers for stalkers, mostly for FA. Would give my limbs for FA.