Wow, Simply Awesomeness! A bible indeed....
I been playing CoH for along time now and I havent really found a build/hero I loved until now. I having fallen in love with my new DM/DA, Midnite Raven. She is at 12 now and I just having fun with her. Awesome guide. Thank you!!!
Believe it or not I read the whole thing .. except the last section that was about PVE .. I plan on PVP only when I get to 50. Very good guide but coming from a non-scrapper background I got lost with alot of the abbrev. and i didnt' want to keep looking back to figure them out. I will keep it bookmarked and use it as I need a new power selection.
Thanks!
Just wanted to thank you for the time and effort put into researching and writing this fantastic guide. My DM/DA scraptroller is a big and tough 27 now, and I'm enjoying the heck out of him. I started playing about a month ago, so he's my first and only serious character.
I do have one question (though perhaps it should go in the Questions topic). Is there a significant difference between Hover and Acrobatics in terms of knockdown/back protection? I know Acrobatics has the Hold protection as well.
Acrobatics is a better solution for KB/KD overall than Hover, as Hovering does not allow you to completely ignore it. Pre-Ed, Hover was great b/c you could five or six-slot it for Fly Speed and have great fun as well as get reasonable KB protection. Now, Hover is not nearly so attractive.
I used Hover in most of my builds b/c that is how I like to play my DM/DA. I like Super Jump, but not on that particular character. He is a Superspeeder, and I'd like to keep him that way, even in the face of having to work around a problem like Hover being too slow for PvP. I am a min/max'er for the most part, but this is a game with customizable options--character concept still counts, dammit!
In the modern game, unless you don't want Super Jump, Acrobatics is the way to go for the best KB/KD Protection, especially for PvP. Dinosaurs like me will continue to try and fit square pegs into round holes.
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Book I: Genesis
The DM/DA Bible, rev .7
Everything that you never wanted to know about CoH’s most confounding Scrapper—the smoky assassin.
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Hey The_Gamemaster;
I wanna start by sayin' WOW! I LUV this guide. KayConstantine put me up on it and after reading it word for word, I must confess that it was truly instrumental in helping me respec my Dark Scrapper. If you have a few moments to spare, would you kindly critique my final build?
Thanks again for all your hard work!
~V~
Terrific guide. Although long, I was entertained through-out. Having played 37 levels of using Dark Melee, you are spot on IMHO. One question I have though is about hasten. I'm not a superspeed fan(I'm one of the rare Teleport fans) and usually skip hasten altogether. Would you consider hasten an essential part of a successful build? Thanks in advance for the input.
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Terrific guide. Although long, I was entertained through-out. Having played 37 levels of using Dark Melee, you are spot on IMHO. One question I have though is about hasten. I'm not a superspeed fan(I'm one of the rare Teleport fans) and usually skip hasten altogether. Would you consider hasten an essential part of a successful build? Thanks in advance for the input.
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Hasten is not essential by any means, but it definitely makes a difference. The big thing that it does for DM/DA is bring all of those useful "utility" skills back online much more quickly. ToF, SL, DC, SD, and DR are all magnified by Hasten.
This is the best DM/DA guide ever.
Awesome guide, I have many questions. I'll start with Death Shroud. You say NEVER skip it, yet it's not in a build until a 40 respec? I know you then go on to say "this is great at end game, when smashing/lethal is at it's highest"...are you saying NEVER skip at at endgame?
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Awesome guide, I have many questions. I'll start with Death Shroud. You say NEVER skip it, yet it's not in a build until a 40 respec? I know you then go on to say "this is great at end game, when smashing/lethal is at it's highest"...are you saying NEVER skip at at endgame?
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You're right; there is some potential confusion in there. The reason that I don't include DS in the leveling build is b/c my goal is to teach an inexperienced player to learn to use control to develop patience and skill with Dark Melee and to learn how Touch of Fear fits into the system. So many times Dark Melee players hit a performance wall, b/c they try to play like every other Scrapper and just hack away at their opposition until they are all dead, and that is not how the set plays strongest. There is a time to go berzerk and a time to get control...then to go berzerk.
You'll note that I make the comment on that L40 Respec build that the training wheels are coming off. If someone just followed that leveling build and played it out, they would become very adept at controlling and micromanaging combats. When they hit the L40 respec build, they would make the transition really well with just Touch of Fear, b/c they would know how to use it, and they would be skilled enough at changing targets in combat from 40 levels of juggling with Air Superiority that they wouldn't get combat paralysis like some players do as they introduce themselves into a big fight. I am not trying to make players good; I am trying to help them let themselves be excellent.
The only way to do that is to ease them into the chaos and let them navigate it at their own pace. Giving someone Death Shroud before they are ready for it will not make them a better player; it will make them lazy, and they will not learn the importance of spreading the control wealth (AS and ToF) around combat. Additionally, they will be weaker strategists in managing their endurance by not having to worry about picking the correct attacks for finishing off weakened targets. AND...they will never master Shadow Maul, and that will most definitely come back to haunt them in the late game.
A novice player who follows the guide would probably settle into DM/DA and achieve a relative level of mastery in the L25-35 range (or so they would believe), and they would develop the confidence to depart from the prescribed build and go their own way, which would hopefully include the mighty Death Shroud.
I don't necessarily expect anyone to take everything in here as the one, true gospel, but if they do, they will not be disappointed with their performance.
The short answer to your question is that you should take Death Shroud when you are skilled enough that it will not hurt your development as a Dark Melee player. In the endgame, Death Shroud is what lets you solo effectively in the Crash Site and handle the hordes that you will face in the late story arcs (without it, you will be chipped away at and eventually overwhelmed). You must be battle hardened before you take it though, or you won't be as effective as you can/should be.
That explanation makes perfect sense to me :P
My big turn off with COH has ALWAYS been trying to make builds. Part of the problem is that there are SO many choices for powers and slotting. Another part of the problem is that with every issue just about every build listed on the forums is broken. And the biggest problem is the diversity of builds; everyone has their own opinion. And and even BIGGER biggest problem is choosing powers that fit concept. For example, my Dark/Dark/Dark scrapper's outfit is completely black, so the glow effect of Hasten completely ruins that blacker than night look I'm going for. I'm SO glad you have Flight in your build, I just hope I can find a way to keep flight in my build and not have hasten :P
My next question was going to touch on the choice of having Air Superiority, Flight AND Hover in the builds. But I believe I understand it now. Hover is there for knockback defense, no? I think you said acrobatics would probably be a better choice? Conceptually, I could probably live with either. I didn't have a lot of love for hover with my blaster, just wasn't what I thought it would be.
For newbies who have always been lost in this game, THIS is the guide I would recommend them to read. I just hope you plan to update it when Issue 8 comes out; I've tried to rely on I3 guides for a lot of concepts I've wanted to play, and they just don't work anymore.
I'll be glad when I get to the point to where I can make my own logical choices, I figure it takes one toon to 50 to even understand game mechanics. I've had the game for over a year now and there are STILL things about the game I don't understand :P
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I'll be glad when I get to the point to where I can make my own logical choices, I figure it takes one toon to 50 to even understand game mechanics. I've had the game for over a year now and there are STILL things about the game I don't understand :P
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That's one great thing about the forum community--there are plenty of experienced players (many of whom learned their lessons the hard way) willing to share their insights and experiences to make that journey much more pleasant.
I'm going to have to agree with what others have said, best word for word guide I've seen on here. I havn't been registered on the forums that long heh, but I've been reading and playing long enuff. Very nice write up.
I just had a friend make a DM/DA character and I'll have to get him to check this out.
I can say though that I remember a while back when I played around on my level 40 Brute who was SM/INV that I always had fun fighting scrappers. Using my stupid little tactic of low end. attacks and brawl until I got full fury to unleash on all the claw/regen or spine/inv scrappers, was awesome. But I always remember I got owned using that tactic against the dark meleer's lol. But awesome guide, awesome.
I said that I would report back here after trying out the ol' Scary Scraptroller build, and update everyone with my results. To recap- the idea was to take ToF and CoF, and also Intimidate and Invoke Panic from the Presence pool to have theoretically quad-stackable fear, and the ability to immediately lock down every mob in a spawn. As one teammate called me, a walking boogeyman.
My Scary DM/DA is now level 49, and I'll be pushing him to 50 over the next week or so, so I have spent enough time with the concept to have a pretty good feel for it. My expereince with the Scary Scraptroller build can be mostly summed up in one word- overkill. (Exactly as The Gamemaster said it would be three months ago, but did I listen? No!)
A well slotted CoF will lockdown every minion in a spawn pretty reliably. ToF+CoF will lock down any lt. or boss except a few of the rare fear-resistant mobs (Nemesis). Even then, CoF+ToF+ToF can cower a Fake Neme or Warhulk! I also found that multiple applications of ToF can sometimes cower Elite Bosses, and even when not cowered the -Acc effect is noticible and helps my survivability. In, short I came to love fear, and got very used to micromanaging targets to keep my victims... err... targets in a state of terror.
However, I found that I only RARELY needed the Presence Pool Intimidate to Fear from range- the only mob I used it on routinely was the Malta Sapper just to make sure he was good and scared before I closed to melee range. Invoke panic was just unnecessary- by the time I got it into my build I had gotten so used to micromanaging and applying CoF and ToF that I never really needed another AoE fear to lay on top of it. In addition, the fear magnitudes stack, but the durations don't (durations run concurrently)- so my bread and butter fears seemed more reliable for most situations. Also- the presence pool fears do NOT have the -Acc component of the DM/DA fears, and so were less useful, and less used. The concept can work, but in 95% of fights, the extra pool fears were just plain unnecessary. (But I am now thinking of ways I might squeeze soem fears into my Regen's build... )
The other downside to this build was the painful sacrifices I had to make to fit the three presence pool powers into the build. I wasn't too terribly tight on slots, and was pretty happy with the way things got slotted out- but the power choices got very tight. For starters- I'm a level 49 DM/DA with NO KNOCKBACK protection. No Acro, no hover, nada. Am I crazy? Have I gone mad? Well, probably- but in truth I have survived fairly well without it. KB/KD is annoying- very annoying at times- but it is rarely deadly and there have only been a handfull of times (2 that I can recall) when I was chain-KB'd to death- once by Striga Wolves and the other by Sewer Ritki. There was also at least one occasion when I got knocked off a balcony into the 2nd spawn waiting below- with predictably ugly, messy and painful results. Otherwise it was always get up, dust off, and go back to the fight. Yeah, when I respec I'm going to fit Acro into the build, but I am proof that it is possible to live without it... it is just a pain in the hindquarters sometimes. (I could have taken Acro instead of hasten, and I had originally intended to do so. But the build without hasten was just too slow for my tastes and I needed the attack slots for endred more than for recharge.)
I also have no death shroud and no OG- as those would have impacted the fears I was laying down, and there was just no way to fit them into the build.
All in all, it was an interesting experiment, and was fun to play. But as fun as it was, I'm going to respec into a more "conventional" DM/DA build soon. I plan to keep my DM/DA fears because I have grown so accustomed to using them, and I still want fear as part of his character concept. But I am really looking forward to some KB/KD protection and in the RV PvP environment, Acro will be more necessary than it was for PvE. I'm also going to pick up either OG/DS or maybe both- both have excellent reputations.
Sorry for the long rambling post. If, after reading this, anyone is still considering the old Scary Scraptoller build, good luck to you. Despite all the drawbacks I really did have some good fun with the toon. (Making the Envoy of Shadows cower in terror: Priceless!) And playing a non-minmax toon to 50 (or 49) is a fun challenge in itself, and it taught me a lot about the DM/DA set and how to get good use out of the Swiss Army Knife of scrappers. But I also know that he will be a lot more powerful and deadly after the respec. 
"Don't unravel them-- your ears were meant to be that way."
-Steve Aylett
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I think in all my time on these forums, this is the best guide I've ever read.
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QFT. Awesome! (It helps with the Dark Brutes!)
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
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I said that I would report back here after trying out the ol' Scary Scraptroller build, and update everyone with my results. To recap- the idea was to take ToF and CoF, and also Intimidate and Invoke Panic from the Presence pool to have theoretically quad-stackable fear, and the ability to immediately lock down every mob in a spawn. As one teammate called me, a walking boogeyman.
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So you followed through with the experiment and finished it. Impressive.
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My expereince with the Scary Scraptroller build can be mostly summed up in one word- overkill. (Exactly as The Gamemaster said it would be three months ago, but did I listen? No!)
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The good news is that you did exactly what I told you to do--Don't listen to me (or anyone else) if you want to try something out yourself, b/c I (they) could easily be wrong (either way you end up taking my advice; how's that for hedging my bets?). Since you had a lot of fun, it sounds like a successful experiment.
Once you hit L50 you can respec into a real build and get out there and kick some butt! 
Guess this is the best place to ask about about a DM/DA Scrapper. 
Awesome guide BTW!
I have just started a DA/DM Scrapper (currently level 5) and would like your opinion on how to build it (using your suggestions), if it were to include the following:
Hurdle at level 6
Combat Jumping at level 8
Super Jump possibly at level 14
Acrobatics at level 24+
Health probably at level 16
Stamina at level 20
All the other powers would be from DM, DA or Epic Pool.
Thanks in advance!
I sent you a PM with a sample build based on your requirements; feel free to respond via PM or here.
Wow. I have played for a little bit, have toons of all ATs, and of all the guides this is easily the best one i've read. I'm always interested in learning new stuff about any and all ATs i am playing and was really impressed with the info in yer guide.
I just started playing my DM/DA again after a long break. I decided it was time to push him the rest of the way up to 50, and I have become reinvigorated about playing scrappers again, even more so after reading the Bible.
As many people have stated and as i well know, there are so many different ways to build a DM/DA and so many that work great. The build on mine was solid, needed a bit of streamlining powerwise and slotwise and i wanted to do it instead of waiting til 50(48 atm). I gotta tell you, I was blown away by that psychotic Focused Accuracy build you posted as your lvl 50 respec build. I was a bit hesitant at first, I have a blaster with Devices and did something similar but was too nervous to go all the way without Acc enh in my attacks(talkin' Targeting Drone here). I tried 6 different build/slotting schemes last night on test, 3 I got from the Bible, and loved 'em all. Ultimately I am settled on the Focused Accuracy build with OG. It totally rocks hard tasty abs washerboard style!! Lots of fun. So I am throwing the book and my old build out the window in favor of it. That's it! Kudos to you for a great guide!
I would be psyched if you talked about Focused Accuracy a bit more in it. That was the only thing i wanted more testimonial/info about. How it works, how good it is with no Acc enh, end costs, etc.
Also noteworthy-When I got to the section on the Weapon Mastery I absolutly laughed my face off. That whole bit was hysterical, couldn't stop laughing and my chest and stomach were starting to hurt. Very funny and true. Again, great guide and thanks.
-Mohlvie
Actual Location: Inside the system itself.
"When the most exciting thing about Mace is AceMace's avatar, then it's time to get realistic."
Shield Guide
The only thing anyone in this game is "supposed to be doing" is having fun. Everything else is negotiable. -Jet Boy
Firstly Gamemaster, thanks for the guide. I agree with others, it's the best one I've read so far.
A question, have you tried the other scrapper primaries with DA? Do any of the others combine as well with DA as DM?
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Firstly Gamemaster, thanks for the guide. I agree with others, it's the best one I've read so far.
A question, have you tried the other scrapper primaries with DA? Do any of the others combine as well with DA as DM?
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I have at least tried (at least played into the teens) every primary with DA except for Claws. I currently have a Spines/DA in the 30's that is glorious fun. The combination of Spines with Death Shroud, Dark Regeneration, and Oppressive Gloom is sick, to say the least. The sword sets' ability to stack Defense (from Parry and Divine Avalanche) with Resistance and Dark Regeneration is frightening in terms of the sustained survivability level they can achieve. Martial Arts doesn't really get that much special from DA until L35, when it can stack Disorients with Oppressive Gloom (I have not played it that high).
IMO, despite the strength of some of the other combinations, Dark Melee has a leg up on the other Primaries with respect to comboing with Dark Armor simply from the potential power of stacking Fear and Healing (Touch of Fear and Siphon Life on CoF and DR) and adding the "ToHit" debuffs of Dark Melee to the Control, Resistance and Click Healing layers of Dark Armor. Looking at the big picture, Dark Melee has the ability to shut down single targets, and Dark Armor can neutralize weak groups; combined, they are a virtual, combat pause button.
Okay, first, AWESOME guide, Gamemaster! I'm helping a friend with his dark/dark build and this is really insightful! In fact, it's given me a couple ideas for my Warshade, too...
Second, I have a question...the two things I'm a little worried about for my friend are knockback and immobilizes. He doesn't want superleap as a travel power for concept reasons, so we were thinking Hover to help mitigate the knockback, as you suggest. However, in the sample builds I don't see any immobilize protection apart from what's in Cloak of Darkness, unless I'm missing something...in your experience has that proven sufficient? Also, do you just use it "as needed" kind of thing or keep it running?
Thanks!
Story Arcs:
"The Joy of States-mas", #533168
"A Mosaic of Shattered Dreams", #497506 (2011 Players Choice winner!)
"Television Presents: Attack of the Toons!", #373710
"Lightning in a Bottle", #376222
Thank you for the kind words.
Cloak of Darkness generally provides sufficient Immob protection for most game content, although I have had those moments where I really wished I had something more, say when I have a horde of Thorncasters or Possessed Scientists locking me down. Of course, I have not noticed much difference in those scenarios when playing builds with both Combat Jumping and CoD, but as a wise Scrapper, I do carry at least one Breakfree, just in case something overcomes my Status Protection in a dangerous situation.
On the topic of Status effects, in general, in the modern game, Obsidian Shield is not strong enough to keep you from getting mezzed in the face of groups that can stack them. It is a good idea to carry a breakfree or three. The Scrapper's conventional wisdom should read something along the lines of: Breakfree's...they're not just for PvP anymore.
Great, thanks for the advice! (And I totally agree about your thoughts on break frees, as well. It felt funny having to start carrying them on my own scrapper, but we've all been in one of "those" fights...)
Looks like my friend will be off to the test server soon!
Story Arcs:
"The Joy of States-mas", #533168
"A Mosaic of Shattered Dreams", #497506 (2011 Players Choice winner!)
"Television Presents: Attack of the Toons!", #373710
"Lightning in a Bottle", #376222
Thank you for this guide.
) and your guide has cleared up some slooting questions and long-term viability issues I was facing.
I've reached level 20 just recently with my DM/DA and play him like a tank (I play all my toons like tanks...
Excellent.
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