Someone explain something to me! (spoilers)

Didn't you just spell out the plot behind Time Squad?

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Holsten Armitage is not a confirmed time traveller -- it is entirely possible given the facts that he could just be crazy.

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Good point, I keep forgetting that. But the way he is introduced, as a scientist with high-level enhancements and intimate knowlege of facts normally unatainable is pretty convincing.

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That really tied my brain into a knot. Not because it doesn't make sense, but because I can never figure out who is an older version of who, because the evidence in the arc is conflicting. What you say makes sense, but when I try to figure it out, I keep drawing a blank. My brain works in an odd way, so that when I know there is an error somewhere, I just cannot think straight over the data. Let's hope we get some confirmation

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Didn't you just spell out the plot behind Time Squad?

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I always liked that show. But the theme is true, history must be kept in order or there may never be anyone to keep it in order.

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But you can keep the past in line.

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No. Because if you didn't go back in time then the vase was still stolen. If you went back and stole it would change nothing as your timeline would be the exact same.

In this theory if you went back and tried to kill your grandfather then reality would stop you. Or it wouldn't and the whole time line would collaspe.

Anyway COH seems to use the alternate timelines theory.

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CoV does indeed hold to the whole 'alternate timelines' thing. Dr. Echo was, as per the Souvenir Text, was attempting to deliver a warning about YOU.

And when you catch the two guys speaking to each other in the mission, (when in range, but before they actually spot you. This is easily seen when stealthing/flying through the mission straight to them.)

Dr. Echo: "I know the world you came from was destroyed! It doesn't have to happen again!"

And he had an old photo of you.

The Alternate-reality Dr. Aeon looks at you and says, "But you're dead! Or maybe that hasn't happened yet..."

So, Obviously in some alternate timeline, you have a hand in destroying that world, possibly getting killed, and Echo was quite afraid it was going to happen again.

And in the end, when the old Dr. Aeon runs, Echo says...

"Get out of here, Aeon. This is my fight.

Just remember...

When it's your turn..."

And dies against your character. The whole "Just remember... when it's your turn..." is him telling Dr. Aeon to remember what is at stake, when the time comes to fight you.

Good writing.

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Dawnslayer on Virtue.

Out of curiosity...does anyone actually LET Aeon run? Just to sully the timeline even further I always do what I can to take out the runner first.

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The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.

Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?

A: You crash into another one.

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And when you catch the two guys speaking to each other in the mission, (when in range, but before they actually spot you. This is easily seen when stealthing/flying through the mission straight to them.)

Dr. Echo: "I know the world you came from was destroyed! It doesn't have to happen again!"

And he had an old photo of you.

The Alternate-reality Dr. Aeon looks at you and says, "But you're dead! Or maybe that hasn't happened yet..."

So, Obviously in some alternate timeline, you have a hand in destroying that world, possibly getting killed, and Echo was quite afraid it was going to happen again.

And in the end, when the old Dr. Aeon runs, Echo says...

"Get out of here, Aeon. This is my fight.

Just remember...

When it's your turn..."

And dies against your character. The whole "Just remember... when it's your turn..." is him telling Dr. Aeon to remember what is at stake, when the time comes to fight you.

Good writing.

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I wondered if Dr. Aeon let loose the demon in the PTS and that's the horrible fate he's warning himself about.

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The best explanation I've heard about why we can't change the past came from The Time Machine:

If you decide to go to the past to kill Hitler before WWII, to prevent the Holocaust, you remove your present day impetus to travel back in time, so you don't go.


Works for me.

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In this theory if you went back and tried to kill your grandfather then reality would stop you. Or it wouldn't and the whole time line would collaspe.


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If you went back in time and killed your grandfather then you have to become your own grandfather...c'mon they taught us that in Futurama!

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I agree that "Dr. Aeon?" shouldn't be described as a younger Professor Echo. Or maybe Prof. Echo should be bald instead of looking dark-haired and spry.

Anyway, here's a sort of timeline. Consider the set X1, X2, X3, X4, etc. to be an increasing set of integers, and Y1, Y2, Y3, Y4, etc. to be the same.

Present day - Y4: Fr. Henri seals Bat'Zul inside Mt. Diable.

Present day - Y3: Dr. Egon is "executed" and gets reborn as Dr. Aeon, working for Arachnos.

Present day - Y2: Dr. Aeon, under pressure from Lord Recluse, breaks Bat'Zul's containment field and taps his heart to power the Rogue Isles.

Present day - Y1: Dr. Aeon invents a "time deflector", which can be used to reroute a time traveler.

Present day: Echo Down the Aeons happens. Professor Echo makes his last stand. Virgil Tarikoss prevents an attempt to unleash Bat'Zul with some mercenary assistance.

Present day + X1: Dr. Aeon's power tap opens up a channel for Bat'Zul to break free of his ancient imprisonment. Giant flaming rocks fall and nearly everyone dies, including you.

Present day + X2: Dr. Aeon finishes work on a single-point time machine, and returns to the present day, trying to figure out how the crisis might have been averted. In the process he meets a future version of himself and receives a time deflector and a picture of you.

Present day + X3: Dr. Aeon gives himself a youth treatment to become Professor Echo, and incorporates the time deflector into his existing machine, so he can diffract himself around various periods near the present day.

Present day + X4: Professor Echo travels back to attempt to reveal the truth of what he'd done in the past without tipping off Lord Recluse that he's a time traveler. In the process he fights against you to toughen you up, and tells you to meet with Tarikoss. On the final jaunt he passes the information to himself, and circle complete, dies.

If and when you complete Tarikoss's task force you'll have done what Echo wanted you to do. Circle complete.

--GF

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Up with the overworld! Up with exploration! | Want a review of your arc?

My arcs: Dream Paper (ID: 1874) | Bricked Electronics (ID: 2180) | The Bravuran Jobs (ID: 5073) | Backwards Day (ID: 329000) | Operation Fair Trade (ID: 391172)

As per the souvenir text, Echo isn't there to warn the other Dr. Aeon about the PTS - he's there to warn him about you.

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Dawnslayer on Virtue.

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Out of curiosity...does anyone actually LET Aeon run? Just to sully the timeline even further I always do what I can to take out the runner first.

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Huh? I've never had him run, every time I've done the arc they both attacked me together.

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But you can keep the past in line.

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No. Because if you didn't go back in time then the vase was still stolen. If you went back and stole it would change nothing as your timeline would be the exact same.

In this theory if you went back and tried to kill your grandfather then reality would stop you. Or it wouldn't and the whole time line would collaspe.

Anyway COH seems to use the alternate timelines theory.

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Uhh... that's what I said.

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Yes, but you said it with malice and hate, so no one listened.

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No. Because if you didn't go back in time then the vase was still stolen. If you went back and stole it would change nothing as your timeline would be the exact same.

In this theory if you went back and tried to kill your grandfather then reality would stop you. Or it wouldn't and the whole time line would collaspe.

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You know, I always wondered if you could force a time loop by going back, leaving the plans for your time machine and instructions saying

"If you don't want the universe to explode, build the time machine in these plans, go back to this point, kill <insert your grandfather's name here>, and leave a copy of these instructions in the same place and time where you found them."

then killing your grandfather. Your grandfather dies, you cease to exist, somebody helpful comes along and follows your instructions, younger version of the helpful guy comes along and reads the instructions HE left--bam, it's not altering the past anymore, the new guy is just following a time loop that (as far as anyone could tell) always existed.

(You could leave the machine itself, but that runs into some problems when you realize the machine has to survive an infinite amount of trips...)

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FYI, Echo Down the Aeons was recently discussed in this thread.

IMHO, for reasons articulated, I think that Egon = Aeon = Echo but I don’t think necessarily that Echo needs to be considered to die a final death at the end of the arc… could be more of a loop that he goes back through and then spins out of. Even Ubelmann (the one confirmed actual time traveler that I know of) was still alive at the end of his arc. In the hospital and dying fast, but still alive.

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This is what happens when we mess with time... And let a bug go live.

The models for "Professor Echo" and "Dr. Aeon?" were accidentally reversed. Professor Echo should be the white-haired old man. This is fixed on the next update, the one that we're working on, but that fix wasn't propogated back to the branch on the live servers. I'll see if I can get this pushed forward.

btw - The time line you guys worked out is half right. While Bat'Zul is a threat, the beast beneath the mountain isn't what Professor Echo fears. All will become clear once Operation: DESTINY begins...

Constellation

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Thank you for somewhat clearing that up.

*mumbles something about damn cryptic hints...*

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The models for "Professor Echo" and "Dr. Aeon?" were accidentally reversed. Professor Echo should be the white-haired old man. This is fixed on the next update, the one that we're working on, but that fix wasn't propogated back to the branch on the live servers. I'll see if I can get this pushed forward.

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I was right! Thanks for the info.

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The Dark Blade
"I've felt your mouse on me before, you perv...." - Troy Hickman
Paragon Wiki

And there I was, thinking that Echo was Praetorian Aeon. Hm. Well, that makes more sense, now.

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Thanks for the clarification, Constellation. We hardly ever see ya.

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Be well, people of CoH.

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Out of curiosity...does anyone actually LET Aeon run? Just to sully the timeline even further I always do what I can to take out the runner first.

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He lets you win. Professor Echo pulls the same trick in the PTS arc; at near death he appears to kill himself, presumably activating his escape teleporter early.

Okay, so Echo is supposed to be the old man. That clears up quite a bit of confusion. I figured that dangling plot thread would get brought up again sometime in the 40-50 range. I wonder if this has anything to do with Seer Marino's cryptic warning that Recluse's victory might not be your own?

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Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball

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The models for "Professor Echo" and "Dr. Aeon?" were accidentally reversed.

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I knew it! I knew it, I knew it, I knew it. When I did the story arc, my first impression was that they were reversed. However, as Echo took part in another story arc, I didn't think it possible. But after all, HE has the old painting, HE acts with hindsight in knowing where the dimentional thingy is, HE is here to deliver a warning. In a time when I didn't even consider dimentional travellers (and maybe there sitll aren't in this case), it's the only thing that made sense. So, consequently, dispelling that idea, I was left confused and dumbfounded.

Glad to know it's getting fixed. And given how the Blood of the Black Stream reference goes completely unreferrenced in favour of future content, I'd be pretty happy to have this explained in another arc later on.

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The models for "Professor Echo" and "Dr. Aeon?" were accidentally reversed.

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I think it's pretty clear what he fears: our character doing the arc. The more interesting question is "why?" Or maybe the old picture doesn't mean what we all assume it to mean. And for some reason he wants me to "defeat him after I defeat him," to paraphrase his words. Curious, and very well written. Be sure to tell us which contact gives the sequel to that arc when it's out

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Thanks for the update!

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