Aside from concept, why pick anything over EM?
By
Behold_Gravitas,
Posted on: 2005-12-10 17:03 in Brutes
If you want to min-max you won't take stone...it doesn't quite deal the damage that ss and em do.
That said, one thing you might want to consider is that energy is by far the most played villain melee type (brute and stalker). What does this mean? If there are going to be nerfs passed out, em is first in line.
Another consideration, in terms of pure dmg output, stone lacks, but it's knockdown is excessive. This is a non factor in pvp, since most people have knockdown resistance, but in pve you will dominate mobs. You can cut back on defenses because you don't get hit as much, leaving you other build options.
One final consideration...what do you get when you put together an energy melee brute and a ss/stone brute with knockdown in pvp? Energy melee stun + ss/stone knockdown = dead heroes. Stun knocks off toggles, knockdown makes sure the hero never gets a chance to put them back on. The combination is brutal.
Just a few thoughts on the matter.
You don't SMASH until you play Stone Melee.
Also, some people may get some friends together to make teams for the different pvp zones. SS will do better than EM if you are fighting in BB. If you are building a team for SC or warburg, thats a little different.
I loved EM ... just couldn't get past those shiny purple POM POMs.
I often find I am having better luck with my SS tank in Warberg and most certainly in Siren's Call than I do with my EM tank. Problem with Siren's Call is that you are missing one of your big attacks, Total Focus. When they open up the lvl 50 PvP zone that might be a different story since the give out smashing and lethal damage like candy in this game. But Rage in a PvP zone is invaluable.
Because glowing pompom hands look stupid?
SS is a fun set. It has a great SMASH factor and it's powers are suited to the Brute AT pefectly. Who doesn't like ripping out a chunk of concrete and throwing it in someone's face?
Really, what is the point of this thread? Is anyone going to be able to convince you why they might choose SS or SM over EM?
Play what's fun for you.
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Because glowing pompom hands look stupid?
SS is a fun set. It has a great SMASH factor and it's powers are suited to the Brute AT pefectly. Who doesn't like ripping out a chunk of concrete and throwing it in someone's face?
Really, what is the point of this thread? Is anyone going to be able to convince you why they might choose SS or SM over EM?
Play what's fun for you.
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Yep people did convince me with Super Strength because they made good arguments. I am assuming you only read the first post and not the entire thread because I stated this in a follow up post.
I am still not convinced as to why someone would choose SM over EM other then aesthetic reasons.
SS w/ perma rage ends up having more dmg potential then EM until you get ET. So in a way it is more dmg. I run both and i like them both. Stone is weaker for a differnt reason, that it is harder to make fury with your main attacks having such slow recharges and that its end costs on heavy mallet are disportional to the other sets 6bo attks. Beyond that SS is also a better pvp set since KB can be used in every pvp zone! 
ET can only be used in Warburg making EM overall about that same as the other sets in Sirens/BB.
Hope that helps.
BTW the smashing/lethal isnt as big a deal as you'd think, only at higher lvls in pvp against higher resistant opponents. Even then it isnt everything you fight.
I will agree that taking stone is a tough call, its main strength is its KB on all its attks that aside its dmg is ok, end is to pricey and its recharges to slow.
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SS w/ perma rage ends up having more dmg potential then EM until you get ET. So in a way it is more dmg. I run both and i like them both. Stone is weaker for a differnt reason, that it is harder to make fury with your main attacks having such slow recharges and that its end costs on heavy mallet are disportional to the other sets 6bo attks. Beyond that SS is also a better pvp set since KB can be used in every pvp zone!
ET can only be used in Warburg making EM overall about that same as the other sets in Sirens/BB.
Hope that helps.
BTW the smashing/lethal isnt as big a deal as you'd think, only at higher lvls in pvp against higher resistant opponents. Even then it isnt everything you fight.
I will agree that taking stone is a tough call, its main strength is its KB on all its attks that aside its dmg is ok, end is to pricey and its recharges to slow.
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The only thing I really dislike about smashing/lethal damage is that the developers have created Arch Villains that are immune to that type of damage literally. (IE, Back Alley Brawler)
Even though you'd only encounter him in a team, I think that is a bit unfair to those types.
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SS w/ perma rage ends up having more dmg potential then EM until you get ET. So in a way it is more dmg. I run both and i like them both. Stone is weaker for a differnt reason, that it is harder to make fury with your main attacks having such slow recharges and that its end costs on heavy mallet are disportional to the other sets 6bo attks. Beyond that SS is also a better pvp set since KB can be used in every pvp zone!
ET can only be used in Warburg making EM overall about that same as the other sets in Sirens/BB.
Hope that helps.
BTW the smashing/lethal isnt as big a deal as you'd think, only at higher lvls in pvp against higher resistant opponents. Even then it isnt everything you fight.
I will agree that taking stone is a tough call, its main strength is its KB on all its attks that aside its dmg is ok, end is to pricey and its recharges to slow.
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The only thing I really dislike about smashing/lethal damage is that the developers have created Arch Villains that are immune to that type of damage literally. (IE, Back Alley Brawler)
Even though you'd only encounter him in a team, I think that is a bit unfair to those types.
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you serious? Back Alley Brawler is immune to Smashing/Lethal?
Yes he has 100% resistance
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Yes he has 100% resistance
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*shelves his stone Brute*
damn that, I'm not playing a character that only does Smashing/Lethal, if there are mobs in the game that are 100% Immune to it. that's just not right.
EM is BORING.
There.
In time, I'll come to forgive you.
You have obviously never herded Dreck and accidently hit a huge stack of mobs with Energy Transfer then. SUISIDE IS FUN!
I do like EM, btw. There is not much more satisfying than hitting a mob with ET right in the FACE. Which is why I chose EM for my stalker.
back alley brawler only has 100% s/l resistance when unstoppable is up. but damn that is a long 3 minutes 
Proud captain of BOSS
The Altruist, Lvl 50 (+3) INVUL/SS Tanker
Omega Centauri, Lvl 50 SS/INVUL Brute
My HeroStats numbers bear out just how much a set-changing experience finally getting ET is.
Before ET, Death Shroud was my most damaging power (because I try to maximize my AoE's anyway, and DS is always on). After ET, it's not close, ET is far and away my most damaging power. Makes TF look like a joke, damage-wise. In spawns of 3, ET instantly removes one. So DS has 1/3rd less targets. End cost and recharge are low enough that it's there to use a LOT.
Pre-ET I can see how SS might be liked more, but ET makes all the difference. I hope to get to 40 before it gets nerfed. :P
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I am still not convinced as to why someone would choose SM over EM other then aesthetic reasons.
[/ QUOTE ] You may want to look at the attacks SM has.
1)Great Cone attack available early (Shadow maul)
2)A heal in its Attack line (Siphon Life)
3)An Endurance Recovery in its attack line (Dark Consumption)
4)Damage/Acc Buff-Enemy Debuff (Soul Drain)
Throw in the the fact that the attacks have a side-effect of debuffing enemy accuracy and the damage type is less resisted than smashing/lethal and you have a recipe for a very deadly villian. The rest of the powers can have some pretty nifty applications as well. Screw aesthetic reasons. 
Honestly, for me Shadow maul alone is enough to validate the entire set, the rest just gravy
To be honest, each brute set is pretty darn good beyond aesthetic reasons, Stone & SS can smash mighty good, Em has decent disorients/ single target damage, SM is the swiss army knife of the set & Fire is the low resist issues with both a cone + AoE + dots to boot.
Thats just my take however 
Well so far I am lvl 30 with my Stone/Inv brute. While I do notice some EM brutes outdamaging me, its not a significant amount. I still deal out massive amounts of damage, while knocking everything flat on their [censored] with FOUR knockdown effects(2 Mallets, Air Sup, Fault), And of course the whole reason why I picked stone is still there. It looks the coolest. By far. Nothing beats the graphics and sound of stone melee, it just feels brutish.
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I am still not convinced as to why someone would choose SM over EM other then aesthetic reasons.
[/ QUOTE ] You may want to look at the attacks SM has.[snip][/snip]
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Pssst... SM is stone melee, what you're thinking of is dark melee or DM 
You are absolulty correct 
For some reason I read SM to be Shadow Melee
Mind you , candlestick brough up some great points as well. Knockback/down + a means of tagging someone with ranged is a pretty nice validation for a set in my eyes
Well let's look at it like this.
As everyone has said Rage is the main reason why I pick SS over EM. Rage has the longer effect than build up. In a PvE purpose, perma-knockdown is much better than stunning. I can care less for PvP. SS and Stone can chain knockdown bosses which is a life saver. Also as probably previous stated, SS gets KO blow at lvl 8. That's 10 levels of early boss owning.
I think, NOT counting rage, Stone out performs SS. I may not be right, but I think it does. Stone powers are a true SMASH set. The screen shakes, the sound effects, and the fact that you completly knockdown mobs is a given. Pick up Air Superioty as a filler attack and you will be much safer than EM since EM stuns still allow mobs to run around dazed.
We all know EM has the best single target damage powers but come on, be original and not boring with the pom poms.
P.S. Does anyone else think that Fire isn't really a SMASH set? I mean come on it's lethal/fire damage heh. Every other brute set has some SMASH ing in it.
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Smashing damage is very resisted in the end game.
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Not really.
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
Energy might have better damage i guess but Stone Melee is very controller-y. With all its inherent knockback (it's got alot) your enemies will spend quite a bit of the fight on their backs. That's a major defense because they can't do anything while they're falling down. Some people don't always go for the most damaging set.
I don't know about Super Strength.
My DeviantArt
Extraplanar 50 Mind/Kin
Argos the Beast 50 Stone/Stone
Everblaze 50 Fire/SS
Falcon's Fury 50 Kat/Inv
Heirloom 50 BS/DA
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If only stone melee had rage.... *sigh*
Oh, and something like KO blow instead of fault. Grr.
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Fault is part of what makes Stone Melee what it is.
My DeviantArt
Extraplanar 50 Mind/Kin
Argos the Beast 50 Stone/Stone
Everblaze 50 Fire/SS
Falcon's Fury 50 Kat/Inv
Heirloom 50 BS/DA
First I will answer the post two above mine. You can nearly run build up perma well with just three recharge SO greens in Rage it IS perma. Not just three or four attacks with build up but a couple minutes of rage then a few seconds of no attacking and endo drop. That's right only three recharges and I don't believe you can slot build up for +acc but you can for rage...I fight reds and purples a lot and constantly get comments about how I'm hitting and damaging them.
Now as to the OP. I will start with SS. You have allready said that SS is convincing you, thats good cause the leader of my SVG is energy invuln and I'm SS invuln and he is constantly two to three levels above me and I keep pace with him and with damage on his missions time... he is jelouse lol. My Damage is fine late game so far (level 36) no noticible drop off in my SMASHINESS at all. Only the freak tanks and a few other bosses make me wish I had something other than smashing damage at times but they all fall eventually so no complaints
Rage definately makes SS well on par with EM and boy I can't tell you the number of times a mob is at half hp and an EM player runs up and procedes to do that LONG SLOWMOTION over hand attack smashing them on the head and I just hit Knockout blow as they are winding up and the mob dies before they even land on them...serriousely KoB is so much faster and I get yelled at sometimes for kill stealing my own team mates sometimes...lmao.
As for stone melee... I just started one and man all I can say at level 16 is that its tooo fun! my SS brute does not have hasten but my stoner got it at level 6! lol good thing I wanted hasten and flight cause I also got flury and air superiority both do same damage one is yet another knock down and both do more damage than the other pool attacks like the ones in fighting. Stone will have you hooked with a single swing of the hammer! Early damage attacks that do SUPERIOR DAMAGE!? oh man its droolable I tell you. Its mostly style I'd say but stone is the SMASH of the SMASH attack sets. Slow recharging attacks but man you can make up for that easily with hasten and even some recharge enhancers if you want... I kill fast trust me. not to mention all the comments about how big my hammer is...
the AS and flurry allready fill in my attack chain and i have had other stone brutes freak out when they see I have flurry and especially AS but then they compliment me when I'm juggling a boss all day long and killing it in half the time they do with only SM attacks...of course thats outside of SM but I had to mention it cause I really do get strange looks shortly after followed by compliments. Hell with those two attacks I hardly use the hasten I got anymore lol but it comes in handy whan I need to up the DPS on a target for sure. Stone is not weak I assure you maybe the numbers and things are lower but that does not mean its weak on its own trust me.