[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ballista is a Toggle Dropping *******!
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, he is. He was designed to be as close to a Player Hero as we could make him. How do you guys like the Toggle Drop on him? Is it too nasty or does it add a nice challenge?
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't much like it. You need to keep PvP mechanics, especially ones that are highly controversial, out of PvE no matter what.
[/ QUOTE ]
Quoted yet AGAIN for emphasis. Toggle-dropping in PvP is annoying and bad enough, but when a boss stacks mez effects on you, and THEN drops your mez protection toggles, that's just low. We can't toggle-drop them to turn off their innate resistance, defense, or mez protection in return, so really, what you did her was give them an edge without giving them the drawbacks that come with it. Bad implementation. Now if you were to actually make them like another AT, WITH ALL THE DRAWBACKS OF THAT AT, that would be another story. Blaster-level melee and ranged, give the NO mez protection, NO defenses or resistances, and comparatively lower HP.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ballista is a Toggle Dropping *******!
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, he is. He was designed to be as close to a Player Hero as we could make him. How do you guys like the Toggle Drop on him? Is it too nasty or does it add a nice challenge?
[/ QUOTE ]
He's absurdly over powered. Why should we expect a PvE foe to have powers that work in a PvP manner?
In PvE, your toggles are only supposed to drop if you''re stunned, held, or slept. Every other mob I've encounted in my history of CoH and CoV (both betas) behaves in this fashion. How the heck is it fair for me suddenly find out that a mob gets the benefit of his powers working in a PvP fashion? I mean, are you going to start giving Blaster's 30% unresistable damage in PvE now?
Either make the force bolt he uses a stun attack, or drop the toggle dropping ability from him. Having random toggle dropping appear magically in the PvE game is very annonying.
Heroes
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Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ballista is a Toggle Dropping *******!
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, he is. He was designed to be as close to a Player Hero as we could make him. How do you guys like the Toggle Drop on him? Is it too nasty or does it add a nice challenge?
[/ QUOTE ]
Toggle Dropping in PvE is wrong. Period. I understood why you had it PvP w/ I4. But it is no longer needed now, not since the Nerfs with I5 and ED. I do not like playing the "put the toggle back on game". It is not fun. Not at all. Toggle Dropping in PVE is plain stupid. On the fun scale of 1-10 I rate it a Minus 12.
No offense intended. I just do not like Toggle dropping. Once a toggle drops all you do is try and reapply the toggles, as more drop. Toggle dropping is WAY to powerful in PvP, and one of the things that makes me HATE PvP. Now your bringing it to PvE?
I love the game but your driving me away.
[color=gold][b][size=5]♪ Sometimes you feel like a Tank, Sometimes you don't! ♪[/size][/color][/b]
[url=http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=114726][color=black][b][size=5]Moon [color=red]Hazard [color=black]Zone![/size][/color][/color][/color][/b][/url]
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You have previously mentioned that placate removes you completely from a mobs hate list. for how long? will you build hate back up by being too close before you run away?
[/ QUOTE ]
I have never had the mob re-acquire me as a target while the placate icon was in my effects list. That is, unless I attacked it.
Is there some bug here I have simply never enccountered?
[ QUOTE ]
The hide 'attribute' from placate, is there any plans to do something to stop mobs using a quick attack after you start to placate and nullifying the effect. (stalker placates mob -> mob attacks stalker -> placate effect hits mob, mob is now passive, stalker is now hidden -> mobs attack hits stalker, stalker is now unhidden, mob is now agroed)
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, the placated mob has never done this to me. Other mobs which were aggrod on you remain that way, but being revealed will not aggro the placated mob unless you attack it. At least it never has for me.
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Is it intended that placates (+hide) is near worthless when facing 2-3+ targets ?
[/ QUOTE ]
While it is risky, I use placate in groups of 2 or 3 mobs all the time to great effect. A typical cycle would be: AS a mob, pause to allow surrounding mobs (possibly including the original target) to alpha (beta?) strike me, placate, attack target of choice (not always the placated mob) while hidden. By pausing after I am revealed I let all the mobs perform their usually synchronized intial repsonse and then Placate + follow up attack in the resulting pause in their attack chain.
Clearly this is extremely hard to do in an extended group melee, after mob actions have become more randomized. In such cases I only placate mobs to get them off me or if I am off separated from the main battle and feel sure I won't be attacked. It also won't work well if foes use DoT attacks, since those will prevent you from using interruptable attacks like AS.
[ QUOTE ]
Are there any plans to do something to stop mobs using a quick attack after you start to AS and interupting the AS, or just outright killing you before the AS lands. (stalker is hidden, approaches mob -> stalker begins AS of mob -> stalker is now 'unhidden'
[/ QUOTE ]
Woah, stop there. For 31 levels this has never happened to me. I am revealed when AS is resolved, not when it starts. If this is happening to you it sounds like a bug...
[ QUOTE ]
Can something be done about how often AS interupts because of momentum/server lag.
[/ QUOTE ]
How I would love to see this. It also affects all sniper shots and the powers of the medicine pool, as well as clicking on mission glowies.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
How do you guys like the Toggle Drop on him? Is it too nasty or does it add a nice challenge?
[/ QUOTE ]
Neither. Toggle dropping is simply annoying, it isn't too hard or a challenge, it just makes us stand there and keep turning our toggles back on while we get pounded, and have them knocked off again.
If the goal is to allow this NPC to threaten the defensive ATs, I'd prefer you gave him a damage type that isn't resisted very easily by anyone, like toxic or cold.
Please keep Toggle Dropping out of PvE, it's a horrible, horrible game mechanic.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
[ QUOTE ]
[quote}Ballista is a Toggle Dropping *******!
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, he is. He was designed to be as close to a Player Hero as we could make him. How do you guys like the Toggle Drop on him? Is it too nasty or does it add a nice challenge?
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I never had to worry about him as a Mercenary Mastermind grouped with another. I know this may not be the correct forum, but Ballista didn't provide much of a challenge for me.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ballista is a Toggle Dropping *******!
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, he is. He was designed to be as close to a Player Hero as we could make him. How do you guys like the Toggle Drop on him? Is it too nasty or does it add a nice challenge?
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I never had to worry about him as a Mercenary Mastermind grouped with another. I know this may not be the correct forum, but Ballista didn't provide much of a challenge for me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which only serves to show it's a suck mechanic. It devastates the ATs that rely on toggles to survive but is more or less 'meh' to the others.
And as others have pointed out, toggle dropping made far, far more sense in the I4 world when Tankers and others could have 75-90% DR ratings. Honestly I don't think it makes sense in PvP anymore and it has positively no place at all in PvE.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Castle,
A little off topic. But when did the BI for Thunder Kick change? It did probably did need to decrease, but it is a major change to the MA set for both Stalkers and Scrappers.
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Stalkers are at a 100% value, while Blasters and Scrappers are at a 125% value. From your perspective, that really doesn't change things, but I wanted to be clear on what is going on.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is this for real? I have to go test this out. That's a pretty big change, and I knew nothing about it.
Edit: It's a big change to Scrappers and Blasters. Their Build Up used to be +100% damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
that's not really what he meant.
a build up value of 100% is apparently a damage buff of 80%. scrappers and blasters get 125% of 80, or a 100% dmg buff.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
[ QUOTE ]
Castle,
A little off topic. But when did the BI for Thunder Kick change? It did probably did need to decrease, but it is a major change to the MA set for both Stalkers and Scrappers.
[/ QUOTE ]
It did. See this post.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have previously mentioned that placate removes you completely from a mobs hate list. for how long? will you build hate back up by being too close before you run away?
[/ QUOTE ]
I have never had the mob re-acquire me as a target while the placate icon was in my effects list. That is, unless I attacked it.
Is there some bug here I have simply never enccountered?
[/ QUOTE ]
scenario plays out like this.
Stalker vs Three mobs
Stalker sneaks then AS one mob killing it --> Stalker starts running away, placating the 2nd mob while doing so --> 2nd mob is placated stops running, 3rd mob keeps running --> stalker breaks LOS with 2nd mob, turns and scraps against 3rd mob killing it --> stalker rehides then approaches 2nd mob.
this is where it gets interesting ...
a) sometimes --> stalker approaches remiaining hidden then AS's killing the 2nd mob
b) sometimes --> when the hidden stalker gains LOS with 2nd mob, then mob agros and launches attacks that break hide
c) sometimes --> the placated mob is passified for a while, wanders around, then decides to run after the the out of LOS stalker and attack him.
I beleive a) is the correct AI and that b) and C) are bugs that need to be fixed, but who knows.
[ QUOTE ]
that's not really what he meant.
a build up value of 100% is apparently a damage buff of 80%. scrappers and blasters get 125% of 80, or a 100% dmg buf.
[/ QUOTE ]
Uhhh. My god that's perverse. Why would we/they ever refer to it like this?
While it seems thematically strange to me that Stalkers would share the BU effectiveness of Tankers and Defenders (again refering to Power Build Up for them), I can't say it is causing any problems.
I do find it a little wierd that no one in CoV seems to share the damage scale (Brawl Index) of Blasters. (Note my possibly incorrect information that Stalkers are 0.9, Corrupters and Dominators are 0.75, and Brutes are somewhere in the 1.1 range, all relative to a Blaster being 1.0).
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
While it seems thematically strange to me that Stalkers would share the BU effectiveness of Tankers and Defenders (again refering to Power Build Up for them), I can't say it is causing any problems.
I do find it a little wierd that no one in CoV seems to share the damage scale (Brawl Index) of Blasters. (Note my possibly incorrect information that Stalkers are 0.9, Corrupters and Dominators are 0.75, and Brutes are somewhere in the 1.1 range, all relative to a Blaster being 1.0).
[/ QUOTE ]
i agree, and yes, those numbers are correct.
it does make sense for us to have the higher value, but would it be overpowering? dunno yet.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
[ QUOTE ]
a) sometimes --> stalker approaches remiaining hidden then AS's killing the 2nd mob
b) sometimes --> when the hidden stalker gains LOS with 2nd mob, then mob agros and launches attacks that break hide
c) sometimes --> the placated mob is passified for a while, wanders around, then decides to run after the the out of LOS stalker and attack him.
I beleive a) is the correct AI and that b) and C) are bugs that need to be fixed, but who knows.
[/ QUOTE ]
Based on my experience with the game, I describe what happens like this. The placated mob remains "marked" as aggro'd, but the placate prevents this.
Depending on how far away you got while fighting the "3rd" mob, the placated mob sometimes forgets about you (due to a mix of your stealth and the distance between you). This creates condition A. I find this condition very rare and never count on it.
Condition C is the normal case. You are within aggro range or have refreshed aggro on the mob by killing his buddy (as we all know this sometimes aggros "same group" mobs and sometimes doesn't). He comes looking for you.
Condition B is an edge case. You partially lost aggro on the mob - it's like when you get just close enough for a mob to see you, but not so close it attacks right away. Typcially such mobs turn and look at you for a bit, and then attack. I explain this as you getting far enough away long enough to almost lose aggro. This case may be a bug. I don't think the other two are.
I never run from guys like this anyway except to play hide-and-seek and refresh my hide status and kick them to the moon, so that's probably why I don't mind these conditions much.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
Based on my experience with the game, I describe what happens like this. The placated mob remains "marked" as aggro'd, but the placate prevents this.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats also how i preceive the system to work. but according to Castles statement, Placate works by flat out removing you from their hate list, not suppressing it for the duration of placate.
[ QUOTE ]
Condition C is the normal case. You are within aggro range or have refreshed aggro on the mob by killing his buddy (as we all know this sometimes aggros "same group" mobs and sometimes doesn't). He comes looking for you.
[/ QUOTE ]
each of these examples happens with at least tripple normal agro range between myself and mob 2. mob 3s death 'should not' be refreshing the aggro over that kind of range.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Based on my experience with the game, I describe what happens like this. The placated mob remains "marked" as aggro'd, but the placate prevents this.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats also how i preceive the system to work. but according to Castles statement, Placate works by flat out removing you from their hate list, not suppressing it for the duration of placate.
[/ QUOTE ]
My guess is that's just a matter of his choice of words. Hopefully he'll clear it up for us.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Condition C is the normal case. You are within aggro range or have refreshed aggro on the mob by killing his buddy (as we all know this sometimes aggros "same group" mobs and sometimes doesn't). He comes looking for you.
[/ QUOTE ]
each of these examples happens with at least tripple normal agro range between myself and mob 2. mob 3s death 'should not' be refreshing the aggro over that kind of range.
[/ QUOTE ]
Qualitatively I can agree with you on how this should work, but I'm guessing that the "link" between mobs that says they get mad when you wax their buddies has nothing to do with range. Consider the effect of TP foe. I've seen the enemy mob a) do nothing when the PCs obliterated their stolen buddy, b) come running the moment the buddy was stolen, and c) come running only after their buddy was smashed, even over pretty extreme range.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I just fought Ballista yesterday. At first, my friend and I attempted to duo him -- myself as a 20 Brute, Lackeyed up to my 35 stalker friend. The two of us got him down to half HP without any significant problems, and then SHAZAM! Suddenly, we both died. Right before I went down, I realized that both of my toggle shields were down when I was about to be hit, and the knockback of his force bolt followed by his energy blast thoroughly did me in, without chance for recovery.
I'm torn on this issue -- on the one hand, if you take his toggle dropping off, I don't think he'd be very difficult -- I think the two of us could have taken him if he just had knockback, damage, and HP. On the other hand, the toggle dropping killed us multiple times.
I think you could reduce his HP to a more reasonable level and leave him with the toggle dropping -- that would present a unique challenge that was not insurmountable. Also, the damage on his force bolt should be that of an actual force bolt (negligible, Brawl Index of about 1), not nemesis staff damage as it currently is.
Alternately, leave toggle dropping only on force bolt, and take it off of his energy melee.
[ QUOTE ]
Uh....
Since when are players in PVP even remotely close to....
Having Elite Boss HP 24/7
Having Blaster level Melee attacks
Having Blaster level Ranged attacks with toggle dropping and status effects
[/ QUOTE ]
Well my Kin Defender sure the heck ain't, and he's only got 2 Blasts. But just with Tough, Repel, and Tactics, he's solo-defeated more Stalkers than have defeated him. I think that speaks volumes to any "melee" class that has no magnitude of resistance to Knockbacks of any kind. ...I can definintely tell you my Illusion Scraptroller and MA/DA Scrapper(who both play quite a bit like a Stalker) are always hating life when facing larger groups of Nemesis and Council simply because of the helplessness of being knocked around (and that's without toggle dropping issues). ...At that point it really doesn't matter how much damage you can do because you can't focus a real attack-chain to save your life
Regardless of if you decide to keep toggle-dropping on Ballista-1 or not, it would be nice to have a little message pop up when one of your toggles gets disabled. Something original like, "Toggle Dropped!" or maybe "You're about to get pwned, sucker!"
It's not cool when you discover that last Force Bolt disabled your mez protection only because you've started doing the drunk walk off towards your doom.
Here's a question for you _Castle_. Is the fact that Stealth is currently required for a Stalker to be playable in PvP being looked at? What other class requires a certain power pool selection or their entire purpose is nullified vs a majority of opponents?
Perhaps picking stealth as a powerpool would not be so painful if it weren't completely redundant and useless for a stalker in PvM. Please look into this situation.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ballista is a Toggle Dropping *******!
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, he is. He was designed to be as close to a Player Hero as we could make him. How do you guys like the Toggle Drop on him? Is it too nasty or does it add a nice challenge?
[/ QUOTE ]
It is utterly ridiculous. I was coming to the forums to check for posts about this overpowered uber-boss when I caught this post. He is not even close to a "real" player, since no player can have that combination of powers, toggle-dropping, and hit points.
One attack should not drop every single toggle I have, whether in PvP or PvE. (Had four dropped simultaneously at one point.) If a PvE opponent has a status-affecting attack, he should not _also_ be able to drop my protection against that attack. And if he can do both these things, he should not be able to 2-shot someone with a Brute's hps.
The first time I encountered this monstrosity, it was when a poor Stalker a level or two approached me, begging for help, since this way-overpowered "elite boss" appears in a _timed_ mission. Died once as soon as I saw him, since I didn't realize his abilities were off-the-scale compared to most Elite Bosses that I'd encountered. Got the "Gurney unvailable" bug and reset to try something different. Popped every Defense Insp I had, and with the level difference it was enough to get him down to 1/3 or so with little problem, but he eventually got a lucky combo and dropped me. I suprised the hell out of the Stalked by just popping back up where I stood with full hps to finish the job.
Then I got him in my own arc. This is the only time I've hit the debt cap in this game. I got fed up because there was little I could do tactically, and just kept bouncing up every time I died (Gurney bug again) until I finally wore him down. Didn't enjoy that at all, but it was over with.
Then I met him again in my current arc. Yep, you get to see him again later down the road, folks. So here I am almost at the debt cap again. I've tried combinations of Break Frees and Defensive Insps, various ways of getting to him with a high Fury to start, and although I'm the stubborn type, I'm probably going to have to resort to pulling some teammates into the empty mission or something similar.
Difficult, I don't mind. Being defeated, eh, it happens. But having more trouble with this one mob than I've had with any Arch-Villain/Hero?
Just some of my 50s on Pinnacle... wave if you see:
Doctor Geist: Grav/FF Controller | Fighting Spirit: MA/Inv Scrapper (1250+ badges) | Bird of Paradise: Sonic/NRG Blaster | Pretense: Ill/Rad Controller
Gothic Horror: Dark/Stone Brute | Technophobe: Bot/Dk MM | Snow Leopard: Ice/Ice Dom
Gothic Horror: Dark/Stone Brute | Technophobe: Bot/Dk MM | Snow Leopard: Ice/Ice Dom
[ QUOTE ]
Ballista's toggle dropping should switch to ONLY be from Force Bolt and nothing else. I hate when people whine "Keep PvP out of PvE" on something like this. Take a challenge for once and move on.
Having TD from multiple attacks hurts. If it was only Force Bolt, it'd be more tolerable challenge but not too easy
[/ QUOTE ]
So you're complaing about people complaining about this, and complaining about it yourself in the SAME PARAGRAPH?
Interesting.
As far as Ballista is concerned...
I liked him. I was about 25 when I ran across him, as MA/SR I stood almost no chance solo. So I grabbed the only SG friend who was on (High teens corrupter, Dark/Thermal I believe.) and we whipped him good. It was a fun fight, with a bit of healing and his accuracy debuffed we handled the encounter with him mostly attacking me. Course I placted a couple of times and the corrupter got slapped around...but he lived so it was all good.
I dont think he should change. And the temp power in the final mission was awesome in the final mission of the 20-25 strike force. I'll totally run this arc again. (Unless maybe I have fly...so many arcs, so little time)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Toggle-dropping is annoying as all crap. Keep it out of PvE, and, pleasepleaseplease, look into replacing it with something else in PvP, too!
[/ QUOTE ]
AMEN!
[/ QUOTE ]
Amen II
(We could make a series, like the Omen films...)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Smoke Flash is a "Get me outta here!" power, not a setup for another crit power.
[/ QUOTE ]Ok, so why does it have a (from what I hear) 4 second cast time? That's not something you can use when the chips are down.
[/ QUOTE ]
OooO. Molded?
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