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There was a bug found near the end of beta where it was realized that the Upgrade powers did not benefit from Enhancements in the Henchmen powers.
This was fixed and was in the version that was on test last week. Unfortunately the patch note did not go with it, AND no one told me the fix was up there. 
Anyway, long story short is that the fix is now LIVE, and your Henchmen should be fully Enhanced when you use your Upgrade powers.
Sorry about this screw up. I wanted you guys to test it before it went to Live to see if it made MM's too powerful.
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Not sure if this is too powerful but I can solo on relentless (Hardest difficulty) at a decent rate. I am a merc/traps Mastermind.
Edit: I am currently 27 with all of my SO's. Once I hit 32 it may become a blood bath with all my AE's.
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MMs were able to solo at that difficulty during beta with the bug in place. It's just a matter of how fast.
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Yes but now I can clear a relentless mission in the time it took me to clear a heroic mission before the bug was fixed. I just took down a +3 freak tanker (And I am Mercs) VERY fast compared to before. It used to take 5 minutes, now it took like a minute.
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You know what, I'm not sure I believe you. I know you cant do that with robots or undead. Because I've seen those MM's in action. Go do a demorecord and let the devs see it. Before you go sprouting out stuff that gets the whole powerset nerfed.
'If Champions Online is what "CoH was supposed to be", I'm glad that I have what I have rather than "what it was supposed to be".' - The Alt oholic
"I solo'd Hamidon...but I also totally cheated." - Back Alley Brawler
"It is still early. Someone is going to get stabbed tonight I can feel it." - Ishmael (said in Jello Shooters chat)
My Protector Bots' force shields say that defence is in no way inferior to resistance. Those little bubbles held off a +2 Freak Tank. Not for very long, but against something like that even one miss is crucial.
Surprisingly, player skill does still factor into Masterminds. I managed to best that +2 Freak Tank, despite him constantly trashing my bots. The Force Shields DID keep them alive for a little bit, but I still have to do a lot of stalling, kiting, emergency healing and resummoning, and exploiting the three or four times the Freak Tank ran away. No, it was not easy, but it's possible.
That said, not everybody is as good as us forumites. The upper levels are increasingly more difficult for Masterminds, on account of our henchmen losing levels. I'll happily report if I think my bots are too strong, but as fragile as they are to begin with, I don't think that will be the case.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball
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There was a bug found near the end of beta where it was realized that the Upgrade powers did not benefit from Enhancements in the Henchmen powers.
This was fixed and was in the version that was on test last week. Unfortunately the patch note did not go with it, AND no one told me the fix was up there.
Anyway, long story short is that the fix is now LIVE, and your Henchmen should be fully Enhanced when you use your Upgrade powers.
Sorry about this screw up. I wanted you guys to test it before it went to Live to see if it made MM's too powerful.
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Not sure if this is too powerful but I can solo on relentless (Hardest difficulty) at a decent rate. I am a merc/traps Mastermind.
Edit: I am currently 27 with all of my SO's. Once I hit 32 it may become a blood bath with all my AE's.
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MMs were able to solo at that difficulty during beta with the bug in place. It's just a matter of how fast.
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Yes but now I can clear a relentless mission in the time it took me to clear a heroic mission before the bug was fixed. I just took down a +3 freak tanker (And I am Mercs) VERY fast compared to before. It used to take 5 minutes, now it took like a minute.
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You know what, I'm not sure I believe you. I know you cant do that with robots or undead. Because I've seen those MM's in action. Go do a demorecord and let the devs see it. Before you go sprouting out stuff that gets the whole powerset nerfed.
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How do I do a demorecord? I will make one.
thanks for the info pos
[ QUOTE ]
There was a bug found near the end of beta where it was realized that the Upgrade powers did not benefit from Enhancements in the Henchmen powers.
This was fixed and was in the version that was on test last week. Unfortunately the patch note did not go with it, AND no one told me the fix was up there.
Anyway, long story short is that the fix is now LIVE, and your Henchmen should be fully Enhanced when you use your Upgrade powers.
Sorry about this screw up. I wanted you guys to test it before it went to Live to see if it made MM's too powerful.
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*Gasp* a stealth buff! 
I don't know how to react!
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I've played 94 levels of Super Reflexes since Release. Resistance is NOT better than Defense. The powersets that had just defense were inferior to the sets that had Resistance not because of the intrinsic value of either attribute, but because the sets themselves contained too much mitigation.
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Pre-ED, resistance was much better than defense. Now that ED has hit, someone will have to run the numbers again. But past experience is def starts to break down much faster when pushed, while resistance keeps you alive. Back in the day when we had 90% resist as our cap this was all too apparent. You could tank mobs 10 levels above with some support. The same was not true of ice tankers....
In any event, for PvP defense blows. Accuracy enhancements scale much faster than do def buff. Keep in mind that accuracy wasn't even affected by ED (who slotted more than 2 accs anyway??).
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That's because Damage doesn't scale equally to accuracy. Within the +0 to +4 range (where you should be fighting) it's a non issue. And, yet again, the sets that had +Res just had more mitigation in general. Ice couldn't cap it's +Def, or stack it's toggles when there was still a 90% +Res cap that was easily reachable by tanks.
Accuracy enhancements are actually pretty crappy in PvP, only ToHitBuffs really matter. In addition, base to hit in PvP was lowered to 50% instead of the previous 75%. You should have a look at all the SRs who can run around unhittable in Warburg, where not everyone and their grandma has Focused Accuracy.
And Positrion: Based upon play in Beta and up to 22 on Live, I don't think there will be a major increase in damage potential until post 32, when the final upgrade hands out more powers, or until 27-28 for Mercs/Robots when they get their DPS Henchman slotted. Most of us aren't high enough to test that yet.
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
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Sorry about this screw up. I wanted you guys to test it before it went to Live to see if it made MM's too powerful.
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Thanks for the fix, but Posi we are the weakest of all ATs. It would take a major increas in our damage output to make us too powerful.
The PVP Robot bug is still there though. I tested it earlier. Lasers fire, the victim does the animation of being hit but NO Damage. I can not PVP. This is a PVP game and I cant PVP. There are rewards for PVP I can not recieve. Part of the game is essentially shout off from me. We need this fix REALLY soon.
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Two responses to this.
1. Against that idiot computer, we send good guys packing. In DROVES. The only time my MMs ever die is when they're outside with no henchmen, and they aggro some enemies accidentally. Or in PvP, because other players are too smart to attack pets, and they'll attack you directly.
2. Just because we have a few zones for PvP, and an arena, does not mean this is a PvP game. The PvP is a bonus, not an integral part of this game. You want to see a PvP game, go play WoW and get ganked for a few weeks straight, then tell me what a PvP game is. This game is around 20% PvP, and 80% PvE. Sorry, but I get a bit hostile about PvP, I'm what you might call "opinionated" on the subject. CoH/V is a game with PvP, not a PvP game. Anyway, yes, that bug with your robots should be looked at, since PvP is a decent chunk of content. Until then, try the Gladiator mode for your MM PvP fix, it works pretty similarily, except you need special Gladiator badges for it.
[B]The Once and Future Official Minister of Awesome[/B]
[I]And don't you forget it.[/I]
[URL="http://paragonunleashed.proboards.com/index.cgi"][IMG]http://gamefacelive.com/bre/joker.png[/IMG][/URL]
Defense based henchmen : a lucky hit means you have to reuse the power in question because your hench is now splat.
Resist based henchmen : A Generic hit means you have to use a health restoration ability on your hench.
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Thought this might need some explaining.
To me, I'd rather have to 'work' at maintaining my henches (or, having another hench work at maintaining them) than have to resummon them on a lucky hit.
As a sidenote, I thought Robot henches had resistance as a base (And Defense from the Protector bot buffs)?
Let's Dance!
Resistance is more or less equal to defense.
Imagine for a moment that you have 1000 hit points, your opponent does 100 damage, and hits you 50% of the time (classic minion). If you simply stood there staring stupidly at him, your survivability would be roughly 20 hits (10 out 20 will hit for 1000 damage).
A 10% resistance reduces all damage he does to 90. But he still hits 50% of the time. So your survivability becomes 24 hits (12 out of 24 hit for 1080 damage)
A 10% defense reduces the chance your opponent will hit, but keeps the same damage. You still get hit for 100 damage a hit, but you only get hit 40% of the time. This gives you a survivability of 25 hits (10 attacks are needed, but only 4/10 hit, so you need 10/25 rather than 10/20)
One can argue: But if I raise the foes accuracy by 10%, that negates defense!
But it doesn't. It just makes BOTH targets easier to hit. The defense guy gets hit 50% of the time (for a survivability of 20 hits again), but the resistance guy gets hit 60% of the time (for a survivability of 10/20 again). Accuracy kills, even if you use Resistance. Unless we're talking +60% accuracy, in which case, the Defense guy's bonus literally vanishes (as both get hit 95% of the time, and the defense guy drops to a survivability of 10, where the res drops to 12)
Otherwise, about the same. Resistance will protect you better against one shot deaths (it's harder to GET that one shot hit on a high defense character, but you have no warning to get back and heal like you do with a high res character), but Defense protects you better against status effects (if you can't hit me, you can't stun me). There are plenty of threads you can read some pretty educational debates on it, and it's not a perfect set up, but it's not a situation of one "clearly superior" to the other.
The problem with most defense sets isn't that they use defense... it's that they use it EXCLUSIVELY. The best defenses are layered. A high resistance character, for example, benefits a great deal from a little bit of regen or a little bit of defense. But the sets you point to have only one type of defense: Defense. Invulnerability, the much vaunted defense set, isn't great because it has resistance... it's great because it has BOTH Resistance and Defense.
Regardless... I think this has NOTHING to do with what the poster was discussing. His point wasn't that ninjas suck, but that their secondaries seem to make less of an impact, so the difference in enhancements would be harder to see. If one guy has 10 pieces of pie and the other has 20 pieces of pie and you increase the size of all pies by 10%, the guy with 20 pieces of pie will have noticably more pie than the other guy. This has nothing to do, however, with the quality of their bakeries.
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Defense based henchmen : a lucky hit means you have to reuse the power in question because your hench is now splat.
Resist based henchmen : A Generic hit means you have to use a health restoration ability on your hench.
[ Edit / Add ]
Thought this might need some explaining.
To me, I'd rather have to 'work' at maintaining my henches (or, having another hench work at maintaining them) than have to resummon them on a lucky hit.
As a sidenote, I thought Robot henches had resistance as a base (And Defense from the Protector bot buffs)?
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Against anything aside from Smashing (Zombies), Lethal (Robots), or Smashing/Lethal (Mercenaries), Ninjas have the upper hand. They have some mitigation vs other set's None. They also can get some sweet stacking going on with Force Fields.
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
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The PVP Robot bug is still there though. I tested it earlier. Lasers fire, the victim does the animation of being hit but NO Damage. I can not PVP. This is a PVP game and I cant PVP. There are rewards for PVP I can not recieve. Part of the game is essentially shout off from me. We need this fix REALLY soon.
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Funny, this is how my ice tank felt with issue four, when the arena was a no-go zone. An entire issue of 'content' unavailable to me since anyone with any sort of buff OR debuff would just make a joke of her. And it took until issue SIX for some sort of half-attempt at fixing this was put into place.
I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
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First off: thanks for the fix, Positron. Now, on the pvp bit I can safely say you're not the only one suffering, Naufragus. Robots will do fine once the lasers are working properly, but have you tried a merc MM? You'll suddenly realize how crappy it is to have a smashing/lethal based character when you focus fire on a scrapper/tank/defender and his HP doesn't budge at all. There's just too much damage resistance to it, and the worst thing is that the second equip upgrade doesn't come in time for Siren's Call. Unfortunately, we're stuck as 'bait' until Warburg.
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There was a bug found near the end of beta where it was realized that the Upgrade powers did not benefit from Enhancements in the Henchmen powers.
This was fixed and was in the version that was on test last week. Unfortunately the patch note did not go with it, AND no one told me the fix was up there.
Anyway, long story short is that the fix is now LIVE, and your Henchmen should be fully Enhanced when you use your Upgrade powers.
Sorry about this screw up. I wanted you guys to test it before it went to Live to see if it made MM's too powerful.
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Not sure if this is too powerful but I can solo on relentless (Hardest difficulty) at a decent rate. I am a merc/traps Mastermind.
Edit: I am currently 27 with all of my SO's. Once I hit 32 it may become a blood bath with all my AE's.
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MMs were able to solo at that difficulty during beta with the bug in place. It's just a matter of how fast.
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I can't. I tried Relentless after reading these posts and had to abandon the mission. Robots/FF.
Quixotik
"I did not say this. I am not here." -Guild Navigator
[ QUOTE ]
There was a bug found near the end of beta where it was realized that the Upgrade powers did not benefit from Enhancements in the Henchmen powers.
This was fixed and was in the version that was on test last week. Unfortunately the patch note did not go with it, AND no one told me the fix was up there.
Anyway, long story short is that the fix is now LIVE, and your Henchmen should be fully Enhanced when you use your Upgrade powers.
Sorry about this screw up. I wanted you guys to test it before it went to Live to see if it made MM's too powerful.
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I love you.
In a manly kind of way, of course.
I promise you'll hear from me if it winds up being too strong, although I would expect this only in the 35+ levels, where SO's are prevalent.
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Against anything aside from Smashing (Zombies), Lethal (Robots), or Smashing/Lethal (Mercenaries), Ninjas have the upper hand. They have some mitigation vs other set's None. They also can get some sweet stacking going on with Force Fields.
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First of all I thought robots were energy (says so in character builder). Also explain the mitigation? Is this in their attacks? All sets have bonuses against certain damages. Bots have the best overall against lethal/smash and hefty psionics among others. Perhaps I am not following well enough.
Since I never played CoH before this, last week, I talked to the Fateweaver, and inadvertantly set my difficulty to the highest level. I mostly soloed from around 12-14 doing this with my Bots/Dark MM, and while it was tough, it was doable. I'd die 2-3 times usually on the purple bosses, but loading up with inspirations I could do it eventually.
When I finally figured out what the problem was, and changed back to the 2nd level, it was too easy, so right now I'm doing missions on the 3rd level. It's a challenge, but not impossible, and I'm up to lvl 20 3/4 now.
This was all before the fix but I logged on for a while this morning and did one mission, against Freakshows. The orange tanks would eventually run up, hit one of my battle drones and take it down to about 1/3 life, but then I'd be able to fire off twilight grasp for 103 healing and get it most of the way back up.
So, if a n00b (to CoV, not MMORPGs) can do missions on the highest difficulty, you'd have a hard time saying the MM is the weakest AT.
If you want a pet control challenge, trying playing a shadow knight in EQ where your only pet controls are "pet attack" and "pet back off" and there's no passive mode. I'm using the numeric keypad binds, and it's heaven, let me tell you.
What's overpowered?
With my Necro/Dark MM, I took on by myself, with no problems, red bosses and a yellow elite boss.
However, that's when I controlled the environment, was prepared, and got the drop on them. Whenever I accidentally agro'ed a red boss and didn't run from the fight, I died.
It's only with strategy in place that I feel quite uber. I can't charge these types of foes willy nilly. And no noob could do what I do since I have a very cleverly min/maxed build with synergistic use of powers. Nor can I own live opponents in PvP with my build... they wouldn't fall for my tactics like the AIs do.
So, is this overpowered?
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
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Against anything aside from Smashing (Zombies), Lethal (Robots), or Smashing/Lethal (Mercenaries), Ninjas have the upper hand. They have some mitigation vs other set's None. They also can get some sweet stacking going on with Force Fields.
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First of all I thought robots were energy (says so in character builder). Also explain the mitigation? Is this in their attacks? All sets have bonuses against certain damages. Bots have the best overall against lethal/smash and hefty psionics among others. Perhaps I am not following well enough.
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He was referring to their innate resistances.
Also Bot attacks only do energy/smashing. And they absolutely 0 smashing resists (cold/lethal/psi).
To be honest, I haven't noticed any difference. My Mercs/Poison Mastermind has been soloing on Relentless since level 5 (now 24). I was doing fine before the stealth-buff, and I've noticed no real change after.
Note that the ONLY power I have from my Poison secondary is the single-target heal.
I lance through minions a lot easier, but I'm not head and shoulders stronger than I was before. There's less of a difference since I'm still using DOs, but I doubt I'll be overwhelmingly powerful.
Against groups like Arachnos who primarily dish out Lethal damage - which my bots resist - it's a piece of cake. Against enemies who do lots of damage my bots don't resist - Shivans and Clockwork, for example - they totally trash my robots. Running on difficulty 2, five even con Shivans were tearing my poor bots to pieces. And the boss...!
So, it is heavily dependant on who I go up against. Enhanced damage isn't any good if my robots are dead, so "Achilles Heel" enemies still give me a run for my money. I'll see if that changes once I have a full stock of SOs, but knowing how much harder enemies get at 20+, I'm sure Masterminds won't dominate things. They are definitely the 'quick and easy' path to power.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball
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Sorry about this screw up. I wanted you guys to test it before it went to Live to see if it made MM's too powerful.
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What's truly screwed up is that within two weeks of game launch you're already eyeballing who gets nerfed first.
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Sorry about this screw up. I wanted you guys to test it before it went to Live to see if it made MM's too powerful.
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What's truly screwed up is that within two weeks of game launch you're already eyeballing who gets nerfed first.
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Whoa settle down there cowboy. It's a valid concern since it ended up being put on test without a patch note or letting Positron know it was up there to tell us. A couple of us hopped onto test and gave it a whirl, and stuff on Training Room usually cooks for 2-3 weeks before going Live.
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Against anything aside from Smashing (Zombies), Lethal (Robots), or Smashing/Lethal (Mercenaries), Ninjas have the upper hand. They have some mitigation vs other set's None. They also can get some sweet stacking going on with Force Fields.
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First of all I thought robots were energy (says so in character builder). Also explain the mitigation? Is this in their attacks? All sets have bonuses against certain damages. Bots have the best overall against lethal/smash and hefty psionics among others. Perhaps I am not following well enough.
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He was referring to their innate resistances.
Also Bot attacks only do energy/smashing. And they absolutely 0 smashing resists (cold/lethal/psi).
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Yeah, I was referring to the damage that the Henchmen can mitigate. Ninjas have Positional Defense (like Super Reflexes) of 7% for the Tier 1, and 14% for the Tier 2 and 3. So even though against the foes that the Mercs/Zombies/Robots have resistance to (primarily Smashing, Lethal, or both) Ninjas have far superior mitigation against pretty much every other damage type, since they recieve their +Defense no matter what.
The damage that henchmen are capable of DOING...
Necromancy - Toxic, Negative Energy, Smashing, Lethal. AFAIK, all Necromancy pets are capable of doing Negative Energy since they all can get Siphon Life or Drain Life with Dark Empowerment.
Mercenaries - Smashing, Lethal, Fire. (Smashing only comes from Medic's Frag Grenade and Commando's M30 Grenade. Fire only comes from Commando's Flamethrower)
Robots - Energy, Smashing, Fire (Assault Bot can have Ignite)
Ninjas - Smashing, Lethal, Fire (Oni)
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
I really don't think that MM's are overpowered compared to say... Illusion controllers.
Matter of fact, my ill/rad can walk through missions much easier than my mastermind can, although considering the level difference (26/24) and the fact that she has full so's (my mm has been able to afford...2) probably makes the biggest difference, but i figure Illusion is probably the closest CoH equivalent to a mastermind.
As it stands, even with the upgraded enhanced attacks it doesn't appear as if the masterminds have exceeded, in PvE, any other archetype in dealability
Yes, stalkers die more often (they can also one-shot a red boss) Brutes with a purp and a few greens can run through missions WAY faster, corrupters are WAY more team-friendly, and dominators can control the flow of battle far better. i don't think this has changed much.
Now, if only my robots could actually damage another player...
Merc/FF
L25 (pre-Commando)
2 Acc/3 Dam SOs in Soldiers, Spec Ops
Tactics, Assault, Dispersion Field
I ran a bunch of missions last night in groups, with 1 partner, and solo.
The improvement was noticeable but I do not yet feel overpowered. +1 mobs (2 levels up on the difficulty scale) are still the best I can solo before my pets start dropping like flies. The nice offense of my henchmen still seems to be offset by their frailty. On a team it's not as noticeable because Mercs don't draw much aggro, but solo they get trashed quickly even with bubbles. Anything with lethal resistance is hard, anything with stun resistance is hard, and anything that does fire/cold/energy/neg damage is hard.
Again, I don't think this is currently overpowered compared to my Brute, Dominator, and Corrupter friends of the same level. They are much more flexible in what they can do and when and don't have to worry about transporting pets or pet aggro. I die less in that I get little aggro myself, but I see this as a tradeoff for the prep work at the beginning of every mission (currently up to 85 seconds of summoning, upgrading, resting, and buffing).
Whether or not the Commando will tip the scales into overpowered, I can't say yet. If he does I'll report it honestly...
Remember, all games must be designed around the tactical and play abilities of the highest-skilled and most experienced players. Screw the ordinary schmuck.
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I've played 94 levels of Super Reflexes since Release. Resistance is NOT better than Defense. The powersets that had just defense were inferior to the sets that had Resistance not because of the intrinsic value of either attribute, but because the sets themselves contained too much mitigation.
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Pre-ED, resistance was much better than defense. Now that ED has hit, someone will have to run the numbers again. But past experience is def starts to break down much faster when pushed, while resistance keeps you alive. Back in the day when we had 90% resist as our cap this was all too apparent. You could tank mobs 10 levels above with some support. The same was not true of ice tankers....
In any event, for PvP defense blows. Accuracy enhancements scale much faster than do def buff. Keep in mind that accuracy wasn't even affected by ED (who slotted more than 2 accs anyway??).