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The CoT (old school Oranbega) have gone bad and the descendants of Mu have flipped over to being the good guys?
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Not necessarily. Some of the descendants of Mu are heroes, but by no means all of them. As Azuria says:
'To this day, these pantheons and their followersthe Banished Pantheon, the Oranbegans Circle of Thorns, and the descendants of Hequats Muare in a deadly struggle for earthly preeminence and they will use any and all resources, even other villain groups, to achieve this end. We at MAGI are dedicated to defeating them all.'
Dedicated to defeating THEM ALL. So, the Mu line has baddies involved as well as heroes. I'm convinced that the Hequat/Hecate link means that the Muvian villains are the Coven. They would be the 'pureblood' Muvians, the ones in whom the blood of Mu is strongest.
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I think youre right and that pureblood Muvians will end up being bad while Azuria remains lily white.
BUT heres how I would spin it to make it a little more interesting
..
In addition to the part you mentioned, Azuria clearly identifies herself as a descendant of Mu and says And though the Oranbegans and their Circle of Thorns have vowed to hunt us down
we will prevail. We are humanitys last, best hope against these dark gods.
So she says shes protecting us from Oranbegans and by extension the dark gods she refers to would be Ermeeth & his pantheon (who didnt sound all that dark to me).
So she is protecting us
. out of the goodness of her heart or how about in the name of Hequat, the god of her ancestors? Maybe keeping us safe means stopping us from being able to learn magic? I dont remember her renouncing Hequat or the eugenic policies that made her what she is. And Azuria says descendants of Mu number in the millions (how does she know that
she in contact with them? is there a network, an organization of the descendants of Mu?). And they effectively control MAGI.
So perhaps the descendants of Mu are not quite as benevolent as they appear. You thought the CoT was bad
wait till you try to learn a bit of magic and Azuria shows up to put the hurt on you. Perhaps shes keeping you safe the same way that the Malta organization wants to keep you safe by controlling everything you are allowed to do. Theyll sincerely tell you they know whats best for you. How long did the Council lie dormant within the 5th column before rising up and overthrowing them? Theres already precedent for dormant moles....
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edit: I can't believe that I posted in the forums from home (vs immediate log on to the game) instead of while at work. Yeesh... Gil, I hope you're happy with what you've caused! 
I'm really enjoying the interplay of ideas here. Makes me wish I could write whole books about certain things...secret things...forbidden things. LOL
The one thing that the "Beyond Contact" concept allows me to do is impart, as much as I am allowed or able, aspects of the CoH world that remains hidden or under-explored. Let's hope the series has a good long run of interesting stories (I'll do my best). As always, thanks for reading.
-Gil
its appreciated Gil the lore is one of the things keeping me here after all the alts i've made. I'd be curious to see more on Sarafina eventually or perhaps some of the portal contacts.
I smell a future TF brewing from all this.
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I do find it mildly ironic (and somewhat irrational, which makes me lean more towards Akarist's interpretation of Hequat) that in order to destroy the civilization that Ermeeth taught magic to, Hequat taught magic to another civilization that wound up becoming the source for all the people who know magic today. Yep, that worked out real well for keeping magic from the humans.
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No. The deal wasn't to keep magic from humans, it was to keep the gods from being displaced by magic-wielding mortals (who probably wouldn't be mortal after their aquirement of incredibly vast powers), and they're definitly not displaced, so Hequats mission succeeded.
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There is one hero that is no longer mortal, Statesman.
He was old enough to fight in WWI and has not aged. He apparently possesses the power of Zeus in some way as an Incarnate(as per his hero clix figure and several threads here on the boards).
With the pending arrival of the Incarnate EAT, there will be many more humans with power that rivals that of the gods.
Perhaps this is the true reason the old gods feared humans learning their secrets.
There does seems to be alot of grey areas between the good and bad gods. The Oranbegans made their deal with demons for aid against the MU, and paid a great price.
I am very interested in the reference that Hequat created the mighty nation of Mu in the mid-Atlantic. They had to have been located close enough to Oranbega to wage war. Could this be why Lord Recluse choose the Rogue Islands, which are located in the mid-Atlantic, to be his base?
Keep up the good work Gil! I love these stories!
To me, it seems that over the course of time, the sides have simply changed. Oranbega might have been founded to bring magic to humanity, but in trying to save themselves, made a pact with evil and won, destroying the Mu, but failed to control what they unleashed. Due to the evil forces now in control of the CoT, they are very different from the founders of their civilization.
The current Mu are the same. They are the descendants of the Mu civilization that tried to keep magic from humanity, but are now fighting for humanity. The descendents for the most part likely do not have any loyalties or motivations to keep magic from humanity, they have their own agendas and loyalties. This change is probably because of two reasons. The first simply being time and the current Mu descendents simply forgetting their lineage. The second would be due to what the Oranbegans turned into, the CoT, and their actions against humanity today. The Oranbegans/CoT destroyed the Mu, so the original reason for the start of their conflict has been lost on their descendents, but they still fight against them, whether it be because of the CoTs actions against the Mu descendents today, or the legacy that some of the Mu descendents know of that they should be against the CoT, even if the reason behind it has been lost.
The Banished Pantheon seem the most consistant. They sought to feed of the suffering of humanity, were banished, and now simply seek to return in order to continue.
Grrr, Why most information be held over my head? Alright, i enjoy it, I'll admit it.
Anyway. here's a point no one else has brought up yet. If you click on NPC you discover that there is a new pantheon in town, the Modern Pantheon which most people worship. It's made up of Joule, Grey and Hermes. Now here is something interesting, they are help magic heroes become stronger and the old gods of the Benovalent Pantheon didn't like the concept of people with magic powers. At the moment if memory serves the Benovelent Pantheon is more or less resting and waiting for either the Banished Pantheon or the Ornabegians to make there move. But if they come back how would they treat these new gods, who are A) making magic users stronger and b) taking away thier worshippers.
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June 15, 2004
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4 Pages, and no one noticed the date yet. 
Nice article overall. As usual.
Hey old news is better than no news...
Gilgamesh is a wise one.
I have the feeling that Hequat may not precisely be following Tielekku's orders, at least not the spirit in which they were given. That would reconcile the whole bit about Tielekku being benevolent but Hequat engaging in religious genocide. (This is assuming that these gods are not simply as multifaceted as most humans.)
After all, Hequat is listed as Tielekku's "most promising pupil", and there are plenty of stories about the brightest stars... look at Blizzard's Sargeras, if you will, or for something a bit closer to home, Lucifer.
Going into rampant speculation here:
- Lughebu and the rest of the Banished Pantheon are, well, banished. During the fight, magic as used by Tielekku is seen to be "decisive".
- Ermeeth gets the idea that to prevent anything like the Banished Pantheon from ever rising again, it might be best to teach humans to move away from gods. Thus, he teaches magic to humans for the express purpose of making them self-sufficient.
- Tielekku tells Ermeeth to stop, since if humans no longer needed gods, then all the gods would die, having no worshippers. Ermeeth refuses. As such, war is declared.
- Tielekku puts Hequat in charge of her armies, and Hequat defeats Ermeeth. Ermeeth flees to North America, and creates Oranbega, in an attempt to try again.
- Hequat finds out about Oranbega, and creates Mu in response, in true fanatic fashion. She specifically trains and indoctrinates the Muvians to make war on Oranbega, as a sort of semi-proxy war. (Presumably Tielekku is not around to supervise anymore.)
- Mu attacks Oranbega, and Oranbega loses. Close to defeat, the Oranbegans ask for demonic help, and the demons give them the Thorn Blades, among other "gifts".
- With the demons' help, Oranbega destroys Mu. The Muvians are scattered, their culture presumably lost. Both Ermeeth and Hequat disappear, if they haven't already.
- The Oranbegans degenerate from their utopian society, thanks to the corrupting influence of the demons.
- Baron Zoria discovers Oranbega, and stuff happens that is mostly covered in the Library of Souls story arc. Meanwhile, some Muvians remember their heritage and preserve it, while others forget. And the Banished Pantheon cultists turn up in Paragon City for whatever reason, be it the location of Oranbega or whatever Dark Astoria is all about.
I still don't know how to tie all this in with the Cavern of Transcendence, which involves Karsis (formerly of the Circle) and Talshak (who I presume could be an Akarist-like deserter from the Circle, or a Muvian, or maybe even a Banished Pantheon representative).
And as for the Magic Entities of the SOs, while Hermes is pretty much an old god (even if his domain of messages and speed is very much relevant today), Joule and Grey strike me as representative of the concepts of modern science and knowledge (including the unknown). Humans still have myths and legends today, even if we stick an "urban" in front of them.
Any comments?
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
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The current Mu are the same. They are the descendants of the Mu civilization that tried to keep magic from humanity, but are now fighting for humanity. The descendents for the most part likely do not have any loyalties or motivations to keep magic from humanity, they have their own agendas and loyalties.
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Boy, Hequat's not likely to be happy about that if she ever comes back. (And wasn't the Envoy hinting at something along those lines...?)
Neither is Tielekku, come to think of it. How happy is she going to be when she gets paged for help from those magic-using mortals she was trying to prevent?
For that matter, if the Envoy wasn't just making up threats about Hequat coming back to convince the CoT to deal with him (and this is looking more likely if the Coven is a Hequat-led Mu group), could Tielekku have sent Hequat back after receiving the page in the Scroll arc?
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Hey old news is better than no news...
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But isn't no news good news?
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Well, actually the end of the article mentions that the MAGI folks as well as the magic origin heroes are the descendants of Mu. The coven makes sense too, though.
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"The blood of Mu shall rise, and it shall wash across the ocean and the land. The power that lies dormant within these humble rocks cannot remain so forever."
Does that sound heroic to you?
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The blood of Mu is very simply explained.
It is the descendants of the Great Diaspora. Indeed, it has washed over the oceans and the lands, and their bloodlines have spread across the world, a gift for the arcane and the mystic that has created an army of the supernaturally aware who battle against that which is hidden in the darkness and hungers for man in his ignorance and tranquility.
Pretty darn cool, all things considered.
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The blood of Mu is very simply explained.
It is the descendants of the Great Diaspora. Indeed, it has washed over the oceans and the lands, and their bloodlines have spread across the world, a gift for the arcane and the mystic that has created an army of the supernaturally aware who battle against that which is hidden in the darkness and hungers for man in his ignorance and tranquility.
Pretty darn cool, all things considered.
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Actually, I'm not sure I like the idea that every non-CoT, non-BP magic user has to be a descendant of Mu. Seems a little too much like midichlorians. I'd like to be able to have a character who, say, learned magic through years of careful study, without having the Story Team come in and say "No, it's really because your great-great-great^10-grandfather came from this lost civilization."
Oh I don't think they're saying that specifically. I think they're saying more along the lines of people who work for MAGI etc. are the descendants of what we've been discussing. But the story I believe is still intended to be flexible enough that you can have your own dang histories, origins, family trees etc. Without having to be a descendant of something.
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Oh I don't think they're saying that specifically. I think they're saying more along the lines of people who work for MAGI etc. are the descendants of what we've been discussing. But the story I believe is still intended to be flexible enough that you can have your own dang histories, origins, family trees etc. Without having to be a descendant of something.
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I don't know.
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Nearly every magical hero, seer, mystic, wizard, witch, sorcerer, medium, and channel is one.
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They seem to be pushing it pretty hard. Yes, it's "nearly every", not "every", but it's still rather restrictive. It's like if they had another Rikti War event, and said that "nearly every" hero died in it. There's room to explain why your hero is an exception, but explaining away exceptions like that is an ugly kludge.
Or you can just ignore what's said and go with your own thing.
My character is a Faerie who got bored and wanted to see what was happening in the land of mortals. She is basically here to have fun.
Fighting evil, while good and all, is only good when it is fun.
I loved the between-the-lines suggestion that there may (or may not) be something sinister brewing under the benign surface of MAGI. Gave me shivers down the spine.
All in all, good article!
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
But it didn't explain why she keeps losing the Arc of the Covenant, the Holy Grail, etc.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. --- Thomas Jefferson
Formerly known as YFNDBA
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But it didn't explain why she keeps losing the Arc of the Covenant, the Holy Grail, etc.
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Oh, was she looking for those? My bad. I have been using the ark as a decorative planter in my living room for a couple of years since I bought it at a yard sale. I managed to talk the guy down to $12.00 on it!.
Bravo! Gil, I believe the proper spelling of the Mother of Magic's name is Tielekku, but history and translation has a way of making exact spellings and pronounciations sketchy at best anyways.
As my main is the head priest of a revival of Tielekku's worship (and still miffed that the Banisher badge is so hard to get 
), it's good to get to hear more of her story. Kudos! 
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- Mu attacks Oranbega, and Oranbega loses. Close to defeat, the Oranbegans ask for demonic help, and the demons give them the Thorn Blades, among other "gifts".
Any comments?
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Right, right, thats the part I was not remembering. Making deals with Demons and then being locked underground (with them?) for a few thousand years is bound to generate a few revisions to the Code of Ethics handbook.
Ok, so now I understand the change from Oranbegans to CoT and the CoT not being on the side of good at all, but it still seems like Ermeeth was looking out for humanity and that Tielekku her pantheon was not.
Even if Hequat was operating outside of normal mission parameters when using selective breeding & eugenics on an entire empire of people which Hequat founded solely to destroy Oranbega, by all accounts Tielekku still did not want humanity to learn magic but rather wanted humanity to stay depended on / worshipers of the various pantheons of gods.
They (the former nature spirits) ascended to additional power and she a) did not want humanity to have it and b) wanted humanity to continue to worship as required to keep her energizer batteries charged up.
Whether or not Tielekku supported the creation of what was effectively a race of slaves fanatically devoted to Hequat and brought into being for the single minded purpose of destroying (peaceful?) people who were in the process of being enlightened, shes still not starting from a very benevolent position. (*)
Plus I still really think that it would keep things lively if there was a vast conspiracy amongst the descendant of Mu. Instead of creating new content by adding brand new villain groups, evolve or change some of the things that form the bedrock of our assumptions (ie Azuria & MAGI = side of good; weve had the assumption since level 1)
So... I'm back to how does Azuria know that there are millions of these descendants? That means that there must be some way of telling who is a descendant of Mu and who is not. More importantly, per her own statement she is actively sorting out who is and who isnt a Muvian (she knows who is who at MAGI). Now why would she be doing that? And with so many of these Muvians working at MAGI, how can everything get stolen so easily?
Or are artifacts really being stolen? How about if Azuria is actually farming them out to her clique for use as or when needed and then shes sticking the Banished with the blame. To wrap up her deception, she sends Heroes off to recover the artifacts. This also has the nice ancillary effects of simultaneously beating up on the Banished and keeping them in check while strengthening her cover story. And the Banished are left sitting there wondering why they are always getting the snot beat out of them by an enthusiastic band of Heroes every time a FedEx truck comes by and makes a delivery
. Azuria completes a covert mission with whatever object of power is needed and then uses the very fact that the object was taken from the MAGI vaults to weaken her enemies via subjecting them to a Hero SWAT team. Classic! Shes even smarter than the Malta or the Council.
(*) Assuming, of course, that the godhood packages do not come marked with cancer warning labels and that you can still operate heavy machinery after ascending. Could be that she was trying to save us from ourselves, but with the information revealed to-date this does not appear to be the case.
Thanks, Gil, for responding so rapidly to our request for this article. It raises more questions than it gives answers, but hey, it's magic- mystery is the most important element.
wrong article
sorry