The Semi-Official Paragon Times Thread II
By
Aaron123,
Posted on: 2005-04-27 17:38 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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He sounds like a mix between Tony Danza and Jack Klugman. Which means I can hate and love him in equal amounts.
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That's actually a pretty good description of ol' Ernie. Thanks!
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Now the question is, which side of ol' Ernie to you love and which side of him do you hate? Jack or Tony?
I would like to know Statesman's shoe size!
Great article as always! Thanks!
Why am I always ending my sentances with an "!" ? 
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I think folks are missing the point. They're all too fixated on the whole "It doesn't sound like it's a sports article"; "It's too OOG"; "It needs box scores and quotes"; and all that. The thing has one simple job--explain the functions of the Battle Terminals. That's it. It doesn't have to entertain you. It doesn't have to talk about other sports. It doesn't have to expose corrupt politicians. It doesn't have to give you Statesman's shoe size. That I chose to invent a sports column as a vehicle--hey, my fun and my choice. It could easily have been a bulleted list.
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Ah, but how much richer it would be if you could squeeze in that stuff. I think it conveys the information necessary quite adequately, despite being hampered by such things as "PVP." Overall I've enjoyed the articles quite a lot, but striking that balance between information conveyance and verisimilitudinous style should always be the highest goal. I think you hit the mark more often when you aren't shackled by the need to explain game mechanics; that need definitely increases the difficulty factor.
My only criticism of the piece is the joking nature of the passing comment about the Rikti invasion. For Paragon City, this has to be one of the greatest tragedies/disasters of all time, and given that a follow-up mini-invasion happened just a year ago, I can't imagine joking about it would be well-received. The Paragon Times would receive numerous letters decrying such a tone, fulfilling the same function these forum responses do.
Say, maybe you should have a forum section called "Letters to the Editor."
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
My objection is not so much the specific terminology used, but it's very little like previous articles. The focus in previous newspaper columns has been squarely on the background - on the city itself - and especially on things we didn't know already, small interesting tidbits impossible to glean from available information.
There's a /little/ of that here, but the lion's share of the article is a regurgitation of Arena mechanics, easily available elsewhere; off of the game world, and on the game. It's a little jarring to have something so different without warning.
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I think folks are ... all too fixated on the whole "It doesn't sound like it's a sports article"; "It's too OOG"; "It needs box scores and quotes"; and all that. The thing has one simple job--explain the functions of the Battle Terminals. That's it. It doesn't have to entertain you.
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If it wasn't supposed to be entertaining, why pretend it's a column by a nonexistent guy in a nonexistent paper about arenas made out of bits not bricks for heroes who also don't really exist? There had to be a reason. It was not the readers who invented, sans evidence, the idea that this article was supposed to be something beyond an explanation of the arena.
OOG vs IG is a shorthand for something that is intrinsic to role playing games as a whole genre, from the pen and paper type to the roleplaying servers of online games. People like to come up with an imaginary space in which their character could be real, to create a fictional existence. The viewpoint of this fictional existence is known usually as IC, for "in character." Actually this notion predates the RPG, and comes from drama where it is known as the "fourth wall."
References outside of that break a certain implicit contract between players, or between author or actor and audience. There are times where this can be done to excellent effect -- but it should not be done accidentally or out of lack of comprehension, which is what you are implying is the case here.
That's pretty funny... when I debuted the first real "fluff" piece--"The Paragon Times Building"--the populace howled that it had nothing to do with in-game play. I mean it was vocal. Then folks got used to these historical articles. Twice now, I've written about things that do affect in-game play and folks now complain it doesn't have enough background story.
So, I'll take whatever is said on this forum with a bucket of salt--and just keep on truckin'.
-Gil
Oh, Old thread went boom. I'm sorry if all our IC/OOC ranting is bothering you Gil. Maybe we should take a softer tone, Mea Culpa.
And you are right we do want our cake and eat it (without a 50% accuracy penalty as well) but I think you'll find that it's different players who want different things. The people playing the game (xp/powers/number crunching) want to know about the game, the people enjoying the setting (heroes/paragon city/backstory) want IC things that their heroes could read and not think "What does he mean PvP?". Different strokes... an all
Although its interesting that this article had a definate brief. I didn't realise you were told to simply explain the battle terminals, with that in mind its a well put together vehicle.
Just wait until they start picking apart your use of punctuation!
You can't please everyone ... and some folks in the Forums seem to think that all content and all in-game changes are meant solely for them, and then take it as a personal affront if they don't like what they see. And then are often slow, or even completely reluctant, to give kudos to the things they do like 
Keep up the good work!
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It doesn't have to give you Statesman's shoe size.
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We demand to be told Statesman's shoe size!
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/sign
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It is 9 1/2. Someone asked him in the third house of commons chat.
The Dark Blade
"I've felt your mouse on me before, you perv...." - Troy Hickman
Paragon Wiki
Who says "PVP" stands for "Player vs. Plaver" in this case anyways? It could just as easily be, say, "Personal Victory Points". 
And great article, Gil! I wish I could write for you guys.
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References outside of that break a certain implicit contract between players, or between author or actor and audience. There are times where this can be done to excellent effect -- but it should not be done accidentally or out of lack of comprehension, which is what you are implying is the case here.
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I don't get that implication, at all. The author was constrained to convey OOC (out-of-character) information and chose to do so in his routine, newspaper format. So, we see a mix of OOC and IC voices---generally seamless and entertaining. Yeah, sure, the sudden appearance of 'PvP' in the story did jar my brain back into game information nomenclature---but what other term could he have used that would instantly convey the concept? I don't think he has enough space to include his own lexicon with every story, eh?
Cal2
Personal Victory Points sounds good. I look forward to reading these articles. It can be difficult writing in the journalistic style, and I think that these Paragon Times articles are handled great.
I would have expected some poor roleplayers to have complained about OOG statements long before this one. Alot of people have a really hard time telling the difference between in game and out of game comments.
For example, yesterday I heard someone on my team say ((it was great, but I have to head out now, see you later)). They figured that had to be said out of character.... why? The hero doesn't spend 24 hours a day on a single team, maybe he had to go to work and hang up the cape for a bit... there are alot of explanations, and things like this confuse the people who want to roleplay but have a hard time with how to do it. There are VERY few things that need to be said out of character. I've even seen people who think everytime you make a joke you should do it out of character...
In this case, PvP could be still very appropriate. You could call each of the arena heroes warriors, like they did a long time ago, but that has kind of a violent feel to it. The point of a hero arena is that you're just practicing - why not call them players? The arena is just a game after all. The heroes in the arena are playing that game. So Player vs Player is appropriate - in opposition to Team vs Team...
Zeus - god of a little understanding
I think it is an expectations issue. Some of us have become used to seeing an article laid out like a newspaper and finding that it contains content of a roleplay type nature.
There is nothing wrong with "OOG" info, it is just jarring when it is in the same wrapper as the "IG" stories.
Gil,
First, let me say that I am sorry if my earlier post came off as too negative or targeting. I certainly didn't mean it as a personal attack of any kind. As I said at the end of it, I really do appreciate the time and effort you guys put into these things, and I look foward to more of them.
Really, all I wanted to convey in my last post was that it was the least favorite of the articles for me, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I could have just said that, without the specific reasons, but I thought that wasn't productive. I figured just posting "I didn't like it" doesn't really help much, whereas, "Here's some things that made it not as compelling" is at least productive.
It appears, though, that I may have been too harsh, so again, I apologize. They are your articles, so please, write them as you see fit. And believe me, you are doing a nice job, because for the last month or so, I have been looking foward to Wed. and the article update, which is more than I can say for most games I've played. 
Hey no personal offense taken. You dangle your work out in front of a few thousand people... you get opinions, you get advice, you get everything from "it's great" to "it sucks so hard that light can't even escape."
I do my best. I try to learn. I try to do better. I try different approaches... else it all becomes writing by rote.
Sometimes you fail by a small margin. Sometimes by a chasm. But you still have to try. Or you stop being a writer and get a real job...
I appreciate the passion all of you have for CoH. The fact that folks are so vocal means, to me, that you care. And that is a very good thing.
-Gil
Well said Gil, well said.
(especially love the "sucks so bad light can't escape" line, almost spit up soda )
If there are any in-game anniversary celebrations, find me, and I'll buy ya a drink!
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That's pretty funny... when I debuted the first real "fluff" piece--"The Paragon Times Building"--the populace howled that it had nothing to do with in-game play. I mean it was vocal. Then folks got used to these historical articles. Twice now, I've written about things that do affect in-game play and folks now complain it doesn't have enough background story.
So, I'll take whatever is said on this forum with a bucket of salt--and just keep on truckin'.
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Yep. Absolutely true. I was one of the more vocal people about the first article not having anything to do with in game play. It's important to always take anything said over the internet with a large amount of salt, like you said.
I personally prefer the articles that DO talk about things that affect in-game play, and don't mind it when there is less background story there. I like background story, but I come to this website to find otu about changes to the game. I would far prefer more stuff in game that held more background story. The badges, plaques, missions, task forces, et all, are vastly enhanced by the story associeated with them.
Infinity:
Ellen, 50 MA/Inv Scr
February Night, 14 Ice/Ice Blstr
Guardian:
SilverSwordmaid, 29 Kat/Rgn Scr
Vicious Killer, 33 Emp/Enrgy Def
Electromagness, 40 Rad/Rad Def
Sense of Humor, 50 Fire/En Tank
Virtue:
Kickfest, 50 MA/SR Scr
Freedom:
Glorious Ending, 29 EM/DA Bru
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I think folks are missing the point. They're all too fixated on the whole "It doesn't sound like it's a sports article"; "It's too OOG"; "It needs box scores and quotes"; and all that. The thing has one simple job--explain the functions of the Battle Terminals. That's it.
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Sigh... you know, Gilgamesh, you're just a victim of your own success. You've done such great "hard news" and "historical reporting" articles in the past that people begin to expect the same stuff out of you time and time again, and they start to feel uneasy when you do something different. I myself like the tone and content of the article. The "sports writer" voice was a great addition to the feel of Paragon City. I wouldn't mind hearing more from "Doc" in the future!
Here's another fluff peice for you.
When you first enter Brickstown from IP you coem to this big bridge. See if you can find otu what this bridge is for.
It doesn't actually bridge over anything. The only thing underneath it is a couple of freeway underpasses and a park-N-ride parking lot. The bridge doesn't actually serve any purpose. There's nothing under it, and there are access roads on either side of it.
Is it an old peice of art the residents don't want to tear down? A prototype bridge design for the large bridges in IP? What's that bridge for?
That would be a decent fluff peice.
Hmmm...interesting. I think it's a job for Jackson. Thanks!
-Gil
Doc may be a nice enough guy. I get that from the article. I wonder where he developed such an appreciation of architecture, though... probably took a lot of 'easy' classes in college while he was on the sports team and, unlike some jocks, actually retained the information. Personally, however, I mistrust anyone who is entirely unilateral on an issue. There was nothing of any kind Doc disliked about the arena. I find it suspect.
Of course, it's possible that Doc is actually a rather simple guy and all his beliefs are one-sided. Maybe his thinks his favourite boxers simply cannot be defeated and that the 'good old days' were without exception better than modern times. But this doesn't simply the total analysis overmuch.
Where is his editor? Why didn't they collect any opposing viewpoints, provide more statistics, or even one hero interview on what they thought about the arena ("Statesman rues arena's construction!" would be a great money-maker headline!). Either Doc is so well-respected that nobody can edit his articles any more (Stephen King has the same problem with his books, sometimes) or the editor himself wants a completely informational, non-controversial article about something that is almost undoubtedly controversial in Paragon City.
Are they being pressured by the city? After all, a lot of money has gone into this project, and a frosting piece might be sought by the mayor, or even the governor of the state, to help mollify the public. It could easily be that the only reason Doc was invited for his preview was because of his tendancy to print pieces of that nature... it's not Doc that was pressured (though they would still have to get to the editor), but it's still motivated by dishonest PR efforts.
All in all, the article leaves me with more questions than it answers. I am not a normal person, though... I overthink everything. The 'cracks' may belie either something that could use a bit of adjustment in writing or sinister occurrences behind the scenes. Or a paranoid-delusional framework on my part.
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I'm Doctor Why and I approved this message.
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Sometimes you fail by a small margin. Sometimes by a chasm. But you still have to try. Or you stop being a writer and get a real job...
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I will trade you one real job for your current position.
For serious, let's talk turkey.
For some reason I really like the above "Doctor_Why" post. Questions, questions, questions... I'm longing to answer them. Call it a challenge. Grist for the mill. Whatever. I think "Doc" Lardner may just turn out to be quite a character if given half a chance. Thanks.
-Gil
Thank you!
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It doesn't have to give you Statesman's shoe size.
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We demand to be told Statesman's shoe size!
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/sign