Idea to allow players of all levels PVP together
By
abraxas,
Posted on: 2004-12-07 19:20 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I disagree, Bob has not earned any rights by leveling...This is Elitist thinking and is as mind poisoning as racism!
And why does anything bob earn while playing PvE entitle him to any advantages in PvP?
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Hew, dont start flaming me for puting my opinion out here. You want to start calling my way of thinking racist ? Try be a little mature about this, and be a little less harsh on your way of words. I did not attack your comments, nor did I attack anyone elses comments. I was simply giving an example of what might happen, and even used made up names, and instances. I am offended, and hurt, that you would think of me as Elitist, and Racist.
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I just want to point something out here with a few of your points. You are of course entitled to a difference of opinion but hear me out here.
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It makes no sense for a L50 controller to be shot in the back by an L14 blaster with a snipe and a followup, and die. With scaled damage, this is a likely situation.
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First of all by the sounds of it the PvP will be in special zones, these zones will be ranked much like existing zones. So the fact is that you won't find a level 14 running around a level 50 zones which has enemies that can pick them off with ease. They will probably stick to their own zones to avoid being killed by mobs. This is naturally only occour in crossover zones between the CoH part of the game and the CoV but you can bet there will be mobs there. Assuming they survive that gaunlet they might get into the other PvP zone where no mobs are.
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It doesn't make sense in terms of gameplay, and it doesn't make sense in terms of comic books, and it won't be fun.
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From a gameplay point of view it makes great sense, encounters with other players need to be a challenge just like the monsters in the game which now con purple to all players. Secondly in the case of comics it does work, in the books the only thing that seperate the Hulk from Spiderman is that he Hulk is nearly indestructable and Spiderman doesn't have as the same degree of superstrength. However you'd never see the Spiderman die within moments against the Hulk because his super reflexes would keep up with it. This 'even ground' methodolgy works even for the comic books. Lastly. Being placed into an impossible situation is never fun... being forced into one by another player is worse because you cannot escape it. One way or another you're going to have ambushes and deaths as a result. I know you like the security of being level 50 and what you consider 'safe' however consider what its like for lower level characters being actively hunted by level 50s with no way to defend themselves.
Frustration is the reason why PvP in an MMO has never taken the majority of the population, even in SWG they decreased the damage caused by other players to each other by 75% because people were sick of being one shotted. In this game the same will happen unless some kind of means is put in to prevent that.
Sure a 75% damage reduction would be one solution but you're intentionally putting a barrier between players for PvP. Things would be so much more fun if you're after a few PvP encounters and can find it in all zones rather than just being stuck with a few that keep your level of players around. Trust me when I say I hated it in SWG where I wanted a little PvP and couldn't find anyone who wouldn't whup my a*s because I had less combat skills. It got very very boring looking for an fair fight.
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Similarly, an INV tanker by L32, if he is auto-scaled to his enemy, will be effectively unkillable one on one by anyone.
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Every AT and powerset currently has something to counter it. Any tanker could be totally owned by a controller, all it takes is one successful hold and its all over. Even with an 'even ground' system in place. The same can be said for any scrapper and tanker. Even some blasters have ways to drop toggles with a hold or sleep. There is no such thing as someone being undefeatable by anyone just because you made everyone equal in damage ect...
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I don't want to be afraid to stomp around AP or PP with my L45 Scrapper, and I won't want to be afraid of L1-40 villains in CoV, either. It just doesn't make sense to me.
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You'd have no reason to stomp around Atlas Park unless you were ganking lower level players or hanging around the trainer to socialize. Thankfully AP will never be a PvP zone from what they have said. You're speaking from a highbies point of view. Why is it unfair for you to be worried about being in a low level zone while its apparently fair for lowbies to feel hunted and powerless to protect themselves in the lowbie zones?
Isn't it fair to everyone to give all heroes the same risks and rewards?
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I disagree, Bob has not earned any rights by leveling...This is Elitist thinking and is as mind poisoning as racism!
And why does anything bob earn while playing PvE entitle him to any advantages in PvP?
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Hew, dont start flaming me for puting my opinion out here. You want to start calling my way of thinking racist ? Try be a little mature about this, and be a little less harsh on your way of words. I did not attack your comments, nor did I attack anyone elses comments. I was simply giving an example of what might happen, and even used made up names, and instances. I am offended, and hurt, that you would think of me as Elitist, and Racist.
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I'm glad you quoted me completely, I'm sorry you were offended but having said that I stand by my original statement.
This was your statement I found to be elitist:
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What I am trying to get at, is that you cannot make it so a level 2 will have any chance to hit a level 44. That level 44, whatever vice he has with the world, has earned his right at that level.
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This is what elitist means:
Elitism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Elitism is a belief or attitude that an elite (a selected group of persons whose personal abilities, specialized training or other attributes place them at the top of any field) are the people whose views on a matter are to be taken most seriously, or who are alone fit to govern. Under elitism these people are seen as occupying a special position of authority or privilege in a group, as opposed to the majority of people who do not match up with their abilities or attributes. Members of an inherited elite are aristocrats.
I did not call you a racist, I call you an Elitist (which you are) and I compared the Intolerance of Elitistism to racism.
definition of racism:
Racism refers to beliefs, practices, and institutions that negatively discriminate against people based on their perceived or ascribed race. Sometimes the term is also used to describe the belief that race is the primary determinant of human capacities, or that individuals should be treated differently based on their ascribed race. There is a growing, but controversial, tendency to state that racism is a system of oppression that combines racist beliefs whether they be explicit, tacit or unconscious with the power to have a negative impact on those discriminated against on a societal level.
Just replace the word "Race" in the above definition to "Level" and you will see the comparison I'm trying to make.
Does that clear it up for you?
Again I was not calling you a racist and I apologize it you felt insulted but, I still stand behind my statement.
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Which is fine. A higher level should win most of the time. However, most is a key word. Also, a higher level hero should not be able to walk through a group of players with the same ease as they do Green minions. A few lvl 20-30's should give a lvl 50 a run for her money.
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agreed, just think testing may show that the extra hitpoints provide too much of an advantage for a good challenge. What should be the standard? 5 hereoes vs 1 hero 5 times their level should win 50% of the time? I just wonder if that would be feasible or if Tanks would be able to outlast 5 heroes easily and need something like 7 to take them down. Again, may not be a bad thing depending on Cryptic's ideas for how PvP should work.
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Why? A 30% debuff is just the same as fighting an even con which is something the game is designed for. Besides, the debuffers need to have a vital role as well.
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See Tal_N's post above for a good example of how defense would provide an unfair advantage unless other factors are also taken into account.
interesting read. I tried to find the thread I made about 4 months ago regarding the same issue: The equal balance between different level players.
At the time I was also in the beta test of WoW 
and saw the PVP imbalance where one level 50 could decimate an entire village of low level players. one level 50 vs twenty level 5-20.
Now, with this in mind I always envisioned that the level 50 would do serious damage but in the end be taken down due to the amount of people attacking him. This was not the case. The level 50 guy wasn't even touched 
Should a level 10 be able to take out a level 50 one-on-one? I disagree, but if a level 10 teams up a few other players of similar level, they should be able to overcome the single level 50 guy.
Just my 2 bits.
And I stand by my statement that you deliberatly posted remarks to flame me, and try to humiliate me.
I posted examples of a certain situation that may arrise. I did not attack anyone, nor did I embarrass anyone, or hurt them.
If people are to play in a game, that has the ongoing success of becoming a stronger superhero, one who can level up, to become stronger, more powerful, and bettter as they gain experience, that should be a reward. Just like any game out there, it is a reward for experience gained. It should not be a hinderance to those people who can beat him in a fight, even if that person is much lower levels than them.
If this is the case, then I guarantee you, that people will be building a character, just about every two days, with the sole purpose to take out higher level characters. Why ?
Because this is "Fun" to them. May not be "Fun" to others, but this is reality, and many people get their kicks just from picking on other people. I stated my opinion, and even said so.
Like I said, you had no right to attack me, nor my comments here. I used general statements, without attacking other people.
Lets play a game of....
'[i]Whats the worse that could happen?[i]' (please don't sue me for copyright infringment Dr Pepper)
Standard PvP system
- Players will be able to defeat enemies they're own level with a decent challenge and crush weaker players with ease. They'd have a feeling of power in their PvP situation.
- Lower level players feel vulnerable in PvP while higher level players feel mainly safe.
-Some high level players will intentionally hunt low level players for the fun of it reguardles of penalities or lack of in-game benefit. Low level players will drop out of PvP due to debt incured from such things.
-Supergroups will form to specifically hunt lowbies. This will cause people to quit the game and cancel accounts since they are frustrated however the supergroup is allowed because its part of the games natural systems.
- High level players will stick to high level zones for PvP, low levels to low level zones for PvP. A devide forms in the community.
- Transition from seperate level PvP zones will be hard, someone who just turned level 31 might be too high for the level 20-30 zone for PvP however they will struggle with the new 30-40 PvP zone.
- Some players will find it is hard to locate other players around their level for PvP encounters. The PvP base as a whole will be limited by the number of players within fixed level ranges. Naturally low level PvP will be very active, mid-level moderately active and high level PvP will be quiet.
- Elitest attitudes are known to form in PvP because of the leveling system. This creates friction within the community and breeds animosity.
'Even con' PvP System
- Players of all levels when they consent to PvP will be at equal risk and gain equal rewards. High level characters will feel the same pressure from PvP as low level characters.
- Players will be unable to defeat any hero with utter discrimination, they may feel that they are weaker than a lower level hero if they lose.
- High level players and low level players will interact in PvP zones since they are on a more even footing. This helps the social aspect of the game greatly and brings the community together.
- There will be no hard transitions for leveling that effect PvP in vast ways, all PvP zones without mobs will be viable for all players.
- Locating potential PvP encounters will be incredibly easy as any player that has concented to PvP will be a worthy opponent.
- Elitest attitudes will not develop as all heroes are on even footing aside from powers. A level 50 can fall to a level 10 simply because they didn't play well.
- Combat will be based solely on skill rather than stats, when you win or lose you know its because of your personal skills and power usage rather than the fact you were outleveled.
-More of the player base will be involved in PvP since there is very little risk of being unable to defend yourself against high level characters should they attack you.
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The battle field needs to be leveled to get the most enjoyment out of PvP.
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Nothing truer ever said. Hehehe. 
If you take any competition-based game and intentionally give one player a big handicap, you ruin the game flat-out, because there's no game to that. Competition is based on skill and luck, though... I have to say I prefer skill. Heh, if a team had a handicap in a first person shooter game, it'd never be tolerated. :P Scrabble is PVP too!
...I just personally lean toward a non scaling-system. I guess the whole arguement is the extent to which levels do make a difference in PVP, where PVE is currently 100% and scaling would be 0%, so to speak. I kinda like 15% or so.. Hehe.
And about the exact differences between defence and resistance.. Goshglies, I dun have a clue how they work their numbers really, they seem to do a good job balancing stuff though. I'm just kind of assuming that they'd keep it balanced and good no matter what system they actually use.
~Tyroie
People keep talking about why a high level person should have advantages a low level person doesn't have just becuase they've played longer. Well, I'm gonna play analogy boy again; let's take a look at the workplace. You have George. He's been an employee for 17 years. He's kept up to date with changes in the industry, he's always on time, works late, is an all around good employee. He has put in his time. The company hires Larry, an 18 yr old highschool graduate. Should Larry make the same money as George? Why not? Why should GEORGE make so much more money then Larry? Just becuase he's been around longer? Well, YES. He's put his time in. He has learned his field. He has paid his dues to the company. Now, how does this translate to the game? First off, remember that we play CHARACTERS. This isn't like say, Tribes2 or Castle Wolfenstien where you log on, grab a weapon, and go forth to frag. This is a ROLE PLAY game. Whether or not people decide not to roleplay is inconsiquential. So you have a high level hero, he has been around for a long time, has learned the ropes so to speak. He has learned combat tricks and had his lumps force fed to him. Why should some kid who hasn't even read the instruction manuel on the power-suit he found in the alley be able to hold his own against this hero? Remember that levels denote KNOWLEDGE, not time spent playing.
Now, one of the major complaints about RvR is the fear of high level players ganking low level players. Yes, that will happen. But it's a self-policing situation, becuase there are other high level players who will go out of their way to protect lower level players from these 'villains'. Frankly, the low opinion some of you have for your fellow gamers is appalling. I mean, heck! Seems like some of ya'll beleive every single one of your fellow gameplayers is some mysogynistic cowardly psuedo-murderer just waiting to beat you up while cackling insanely. Have some faith in your fellow man, ok?
Tyroie brings up a good point. Look at all games in the world that are really successful and are PvP related. Even simple things like boardgames, cards and dice games try to keep all of the players at the same advantage or disadvantage as much of the time as possible.
Sure you do have games that people like that make the winner stronger and the losers weaker (counterstrike) and people like them but on the whole those games never let one player get a vast lead over the others. I have experienced PvP systems before and frankly it is not enjoyable to know you cannot win from the start.
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Have some faith in your fellow man, ok?
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Yeah... cause we all now that it wasn't the players fault that the lawsuit from Marvel was filed. As for comparing real life to games, it doesn't work. Realism is totally non-compatible with good gameplay, ask anyone who has any dealings with game development.
Ooh, though a little off subject that's something I've thought soooo much about, Kamui. Half the reason I love City of Heroes is because it has a similar viewpoint about gaming as me - it's for fun, not work or accomplishment. Games are meant to be taken lightly, which is why I have only one character and he's level 32, heh. Enjoying PVP with both casual and hardcore players in an even STRUGGLE battle is more important than 'realism' or 'accomplishment' or whatever enjoyment someone might get out of feeling like their hero is more of a hero than others'.
I prefer to think of it from the gameplay point of view. If a PVE battle is too hard or too easy, it's not fun. PVP's no different. I will be happy even if they implement something were I can only PVP with players around my own level. That suffices for me, so long as the battles are even and fun. If they implement a DAoC cap level battle thing, or if I need to find a level 50 sidekick to play at a measley level 49, I would not PVP.
I'm personally for the original idea, er, what Shadowbane used, heh. Where attacking anyone is like attacking an even con. High levels end up with an advantage but, like I could still fight with level 50s and kick some butt. :P
~ Tyroie
"Yeah... cause we all now that it wasn't the players fault that the lawsuit from Marvel was filed."
Heh, I said FELLOW MAN, not Lawyers. Lawyers aren't people afterall but instead a lower lifeform....<LOL>. Personaly, I'd love a system that was purely skill (twitch) based. Problem is, how would you institute a skill based system in CoH? I don't think it's possible without completely recreating the game, in which case it is no longer CoH. Now, take Vendetta-Online, they use a purely skill (twitch) based system where a complete noob could beat an ace if he has the inherrent skill...but that is a space combat game, not a superhero game.
I dunno, personaly I think people are knee-jerking like 1920's flappers doing the Charleston. When CoV comes live, you won't have to worry about some lvl 50 bully marching through the streets of Atlas or Kings Row laying down havoc. It's already been stated there will be zones for PvP after all. If you don't want to PvP, then you don't. Like in Dark Age of Camelot, don't want to PvP, then you never go into the frontier. But there is something to be said for matching your skills against another person.
So defence has an unfair advantage because in Scenario 1:
Hero 1 dies in two hits and Hero 2 needs to attack only 8 times.
and in Scenario 2:
Hero 3 dies in two hits and Hero 4 needs to attack only 8 times.
So.... the end result is identical, yet somehow this is hugely skewed in favour of defense?
Oooh, I'm not worried about that, I know everything will be consentual. I just would reeeeeally like to see it done well, because I DO love a good PVP system and the potential is soooo blatantly there. Final Fantasy 11 had a -great- battle system and ruined it with pointless little RPG rules and things, it's a serious shame. FF11 had the serious potential to be -fun- and so does CoV's.. I'm excited. :P
Personally, I think a lot of the skill that will be involved in this game's PVP will be positioning. I'm looking forward to tactics, and how player's high movement speed will make things interesting. I can picture people hiding, taking cover behind things, luring and flanking, or spreading enemy forces apart. Indoor battles would RUUUULE... Hehe. That's where this game's skill would be I think. I'm not gonna just stand there and trade attacks.
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I dunno, personaly I think people are knee-jerking like 1920's flappers doing the Charleston. When CoV comes live, you won't have to worry about some lvl 50 bully marching through the streets of Atlas or Kings Row laying down havoc. It's already been stated there will be zones for PvP after all. If you don't want to PvP, then you don't. Like in Dark Age of Camelot, don't want to PvP, then you never go into the frontier. But there is something to be said for matching your skills against another person.
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I don't know about everyone else, but personally I'm trying to continually mutter (rutabega rutabega rutabega) about the "monster con" system precisely because I'd like to try PvP, so I'd like a system where I can get my friends to join in. Since most of them don't play quite as regularly as I do and haven't acheived the same high level, a system which makes it difficult for them to join me in the battle against evil (or good, for that matter) is going to make me unlikely to participate. Now, sure, I could roll an alt, but to use the other side's language on this - I think I've earned the right to play my main after investing the time to gain all those levels.
This isn't "omg PvP teh evul!". I'd just like a system of PvP that I would be able to participate in.
@Mindshadow
An even-con system is sort of an interesting concept. It could work. Higher level characters would *still* have an advantage. Here's an example.
Low level tanker has
Resist Physical Damage, 2 white training enhancements (+10% res)
Temporary Invulnerability, 1 white training enhancement (+5% res)
Jab, 2 white training enhancements (+8% acc, +8% dmg)
High level tanker has:
Resist Physical Damage, 5 white SO enhancements (+100% res)
Temporary Invulnerability, 1 white SO end recucer (33% less end use per tick)
Unyielding Stance, 5 white SO enhancements (+100% res)
(lets just leave the defenses at that)
Jab (4 white SO enhancements, +33% acc, +99% dmg)
Punch (6 white SO enhancements, +33% acc, +165% dmg)
Haymaker (6 white SO enhancements, +198% dmg)
And a lot more hit points.
The high level tanker is going to win that fight. More hp, more damage because of the significant difference between slots and enhancements, and more defense -- in fact, well beyond the 90% resist cap, so the damage he takes is, basically, in the decimals.
The thing is, that low level tanker will not be useful taking on a high level tanker one on one -- but he *might* be useful in a group fight against a defender or an assault rifle blaster.
It certainly gives both characters more *options* when they fight. But it would also give the high-levels the upper hand, in a big way.
I don't have much experience with PVP, but I think this is a really interesting idea.
Scrapper Jack (SJ/WP Brute), Sky Commando (WP/SJ Tanker), Curveball (Rad/DP Defender), and a bunch more.
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And I stand by my statement that you deliberatly posted remarks to flame me, and try to humiliate me.
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Lets agree to disagree then. OK?
Even con scaling instead of target level scaling would still be horribly ineffective if level difference was large as in the case of a 40th level against a 10 level.
Assuming both are blasters Level ten would hit level 40th for about 100pts, while level 40th would have about 900 hit points.
Conversely level 40 would hit level 10 for about 400 hit point but the level ten would have about 400 hit points
Under the even con code the 10th level hero would still be one shotted 75% of the time assuming 75% base acc
While the 40th level would have to be hit more than 9 times before the 10th is hit even once for the 10th to win. The reason I'm saying more than 9 times is because the 40th level blaster is healing during this time.
This is not even taking into account that the 40th level will have 5-7 attacks available for them to use and probably perma-hasten and a fully slotted stamina to really increase their DPM
The 10th level player will only have 3 attacks at the most, hasten unlikely and no stamina.
I think the damage must scale also if you want any PvP contest that include players of very different levels, one on one this might not be a problem, but team on team it will be, so scaling level to target would produce better results IMO
I think level 20 is probably a good starting point for PvP balance.
That's when the archetypes come into their roles.
Just a point.
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Should Larry make the same money as George? Why not? Why should GEORGE make so much more money then Larry? Just becuase he's been around longer? Well, YES. He's put his time in. He has learned his field. He has paid his dues to the company.
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Kamui, you're comparing apples to oranges here, but even so, in real life the companies I have worked for will gladly pay the 18-year-old high school graduate more money if he has more skills. The fact that Larry has been around longer doesn't entitle him to anything more - he got what he was due for all those years, or should have (a steady paycheck).
This sense of entitlement that people have has got to go. You work hard, play well and whatever rewards you have coming to you for that shouldn't have to wait for PvP; you should already have received them, so the game doesn't owe you any more distinction.
What is the difference if a pair of level 20's beats a level 50 versus a level 10 SK'd to a level 48 beating a level 50?
Before the OP's suggestion is dismissed, it should be given a fair try on the test server.
Since people love throwing analogies around on both sides, I'd like to toss in on of my own, though it's a bit radical, because it's actually about *playing a game*
I'm a half-way decent chess player, but if I were to challenge a Chess Grand Master to a match, guess what would happen? He'd wipe the floor with me. Every time. I don't need to test this theory, it's just a fact of life. Is it because he has more pieces than me? No. Can his bishops take out 5 of my pawns at one go? No. In fact, We both have the same exact pieces and they all follow the exact same rules, so what possible advantage could the Grand Master have, that would make me so confident in his victory?
Oh, that's right. He's a better player than I am. That's the reward he gets for his years of playing, combined with his natural ability - he gets to out-play all but a limited and select group of players.
Now, there's already a long-standing tradition of "leveling the playing field" It's called handicapping. If I play Chess against a higher level player, he'll generally spot me a few pieces. In Go, the low level player gets to place a number of pieces on the board before the high-level player places his first. In Golf, the better player will start with a certain number of strokes. In running, the faster runner will give the slower runner, a head start, the list goes on and on.
Only in MMORPGs do you hear players arguing for it to be the other way around, that the low-level players should be handicapped against the high-level players.
I imagine that's because being level 50 isn't a reward for being a skillful player, simply a question of patience, and even that can be circumvented through power-leveling. If skill had anything to do with it, high-lvl players would be screaming for an "exemplar" system for PvP in order to increase the challenge.
Unfortunately, CoH isn't really designed to reward skill, but rather to reward people for continuing to subscribe month to month. To do this they need to preserve the player's feelings of increasing "uber-ness" regardless of whether this is accompanied by any increase in actual ability. We can't have a 3-powered lvl 5 hero wipe the floor with a lvl 50 villian through sheer skill because that would clearly and publicly demonstrate the lvl 50 players lack of skill (at least in comparison to the lvl 5). Being lvl 50 suddenly becomes a hollow accomplishment for the player in question. To paraphrase Recluse, if there's not some distinct advantage to just showing up repeatedly then, "what's the point?"
Frankly, I'm not arguing for an "exemplar" system in which the higher level player is stripped of all powers above the low-level. (though it's interesting to think about) I do think having access to a greater number of powers with more slots, DO or SO enhancements and more inspiration slots, should be more than enough advantage for any high-level player going up against a low-level toon. Combining this with the skill that comes from playing the game at the edge of your abilities should be more than enough to demonstrate you skills as a player, and earn yourself a real reputation in the game. That should be reward enough.
Having the hit-points, accuracy and damage potential to enable a powerleveling noob to one-shot the most skilled player in the game on a low-lvl character isn't rewarding anyone for anything.
Why would an uber-skilled player have a low-lvl toon? One of the hallmarks of skilled players is their willingness to explore different strategies and tactics against their opponents. In CoH, that would include trying a variety of AT/Powerset/Power/Enhancement combinations to test their effectiveness. Another reason would be to fit the tradition of handicapping. Grand Master player spots newbie one or two or ten or thirty) levels to "even the playing field" and make the contest a challenge instead of an opportunity to gloat over having the best FOTM power-build.
But then again, lest we forget...
John Gabriel's Greater Internet F-wad Theory: Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total F-Wad
So I'm not terribly optimistic we'll see much "true" competition once CoV rolls around, but who knows? I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.
[b]Frost Lightning - lvl 50 Ele/Ice[/b]
Kick Asterisk - lvl 43 MA/SR
Frigid Bridget- lvl 20 Ice/Cold
GrammaRadiation lvl 20 Rad/Rad
Helena Ann Baskett lvl 29 Necro/Poisen
The Very Bad Seed lvl 6 Plant/Thorn
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I think the damage must scale also if you want any PvP contest that include players of very different levels, one on one this might not be a problem, but team on team it will be, so scaling level to target would produce better results IMO
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regarding damage scaling... I agree, I think, sort of. I *don't* think that enhancements should scale, though, and that will still make a noticeable difference.
If a level 10 attacked a level 40 char and hit, that would be a level 40 attack... but modified by training enhancements. A 4-slotted +32% damage 40th level energy blast against the 40th-level blaster, and a 6-slotted +192% damage 10th level energy blast against the 10th-level baster. 40th still has the advantage there, I think.
And yes, it *would* be possible to one-shot a low level if the difference were big enough -- but it also gives the lower level characters teeth, especially if they banded together.
Back to the tanker example, I dimly recall jab doing something like 9 points of damage at level 1. So if a 50th level Regiment six-slotted jab with SO's he'd be doing 26, 27 points of damage to the 1st level tanker, before the tanker's resistances kicked in, so maybe 18 a hit if the tanker chose Temp Invulnerability. So haymaker would probably take a 1st level tanker out.
But you know, 50th level vs. 1st level should be sort of ridiculous. 20th vs. 35th level would be a lot closer -- the 35th level character would still have the advantage in slots and powers, but it wouldn't necessarily be a cakewalk.
Scrapper Jack (SJ/WP Brute), Sky Commando (WP/SJ Tanker), Curveball (Rad/DP Defender), and a bunch more.
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Kamui, you're comparing apples to oranges here, but even so, in real life the companies I have worked for will gladly pay the 18-year-old high school graduate more money if he has more skills. The fact that Larry has been around longer doesn't entitle him to anything more - he got what he was due for all those years, or should have (a steady paycheck).
This sense of entitlement that people have has got to go. You work hard, play well and whatever rewards you have coming to you for that shouldn't have to wait for PvP; you should already have received them, so the game doesn't owe you any more distinction.
What is the difference if a pair of level 20's beats a level 50 versus a level 10 SK'd to a level 48 beating a level 50?
Before the OP's suggestion is dismissed, it should be given a fair try on the test server.
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As usual, someone has gone and made the point even better than I have, in far far fewer words.
And I forgot all about SK'ing!
MentorBots(tm) will be the greatest thing since the TaxiBot and give all those bored 50's something to do.
"Been challenged to a fight? Call MentorBot and we'll send a lvl 50 hero to stand on the sidelines while you fight your nemesis!"
Of course, the villians, once hip to this, will do the same thing. In the end, all PvP battles will be even-con - One artificially upleveled lvl 49 vs another.
Now, how is that better than building an even-con system for PvP in the first place?
[b]Frost Lightning - lvl 50 Ele/Ice[/b]
Kick Asterisk - lvl 43 MA/SR
Frigid Bridget- lvl 20 Ice/Cold
GrammaRadiation lvl 20 Rad/Rad
Helena Ann Baskett lvl 29 Necro/Poisen
The Very Bad Seed lvl 6 Plant/Thorn
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I forgot all about SK'ing!
MentorBots(tm) will be the greatest thing since the TaxiBot and give all those bored 50's something to do.
"Been challenged to a fight? Call MentorBot and we'll send a lvl 50 hero to stand on the sidelines while you fight your nemesis!"
Of course, the villians, once hip to this, will do the same thing. In the end, all PvP battles will be even-con - One artificially upleveled lvl 49 vs another.
Now, how is that better than building an even-con system for PvP in the first place?
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Ha, I love it! 
5 stars for you...
I hope MentorBot is not already taken, because I'm starting that tanker tonight. 
You have given me my WarCry to "MentorBot here to save the day" HeHeHe
ROFL, I can't stand it...I'd give you tens stars if I could 
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Conversely the 40th attacking a 10th will still wipe the floor with him, damage wise, but if that 10th level had defence buffs (SR scrapper with bubbles - for example) then the chance to hit him would get "floored" rather than getting jacked because of level.
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Now see the problem here is that you're only taking accuracy and defence into consideration which is giving any powerset that boost defence an unfair advantage. As it stands consider this set of stats which will point things out more clearly:
Hero 1 (level 10) (martial arts/super reflexes) 400 hitpoints
Hero 2 (level 50) (assault rifle/ice manipulation) 1400 hitpoints
Hero 1 is attacking for 50 points of damage a hit with 50% accuracy. He also has a 25% ranged defence buff.
Hero 2 is attacking for 200 points of damage a hit with 50% accuracy. He has no defence other than the base.
With four attacks Hero 2 causes Hero 1 only 200 points of damage. (thats 800 - 75% for defence) Hero 1 dies in two hits and Hero 1 needs to attack only 8 times.
With four attacks Hero 1 causes Hero 2 only 100 points of damage. (thats 200 - 50% for defence) He'd need to attack 56 times to win.
Naturally we see here that the SR scrapper dies with ease, thats what you'd expect from what you're saying. However now consider this.
Hero 3 (level 10) (martial arts/invulnerability) 400 hitpoints
Hero 4 (level 50) (assault rifle/ice manipulation) 1400 hitpoints
Hero 3 is attacking for 50 points of damage a hit with 50% accuracy. He also has a 30% resistance to damage.
Hero 4 is attacking for 200 points of damage a hit with 50% accuracy. He has no defence other than the base.
With four attacks Hero 4 causes Hero 3 around 280 points of damage. (thats 800 - 50% defence less 30% damage) Hero 3 dies in two hits and Hero 4 needs to attack only 8 times.
As you can see because the damage isn't scaled but accuracy and defence is anyone with resistance rather than defence suffers very baddly in PvP because they'll take more damage. That is naturally unacceptable. If you're going to create an 'even con' system for PvP then it needs to take damage, accuracy, defence and resistance into account or else its unfair. The same can be said for hold/mez/sleep ect.. magnitude which usually effects lower level foes more than equal level ones.
The battle field needs to be leveled to get the most enjoyment out of PvP.