Is it just me or is this undocumented change?
By
ddaedelus,
Posted on: 2004-10-18 10:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
You didn't get anything pre-Issue #2.
That was the change.
Not a change. Storyarcs always worked this way, it just wasn't noticeable until the reward screen was added.
Storyarcs work the same way as villains when it comes to the reward vs. difficulty issue.
You only get enhancements for killing a villain if they con Yellow or higher to you. (sometimes white)
The same is true for storyarcs, if you complete them within one to two levels of recieving them you are rewarded with an enhancement, if you wait until it is easier to complete you will not recieve the enhancement, as the storyarc is no longer considered to be of higher difficulty (yellow con).
Basically, it's always been like this. For example, let's say you take a mission at lvl 23, yet you wait until 28 to finish it. Why would you even want the lvl 23 SO (except to sell)?
Here's what I usually do. If I'm nearing the end of an arc and I'm also close to leveling, I don't bother actually ACCEPTING the mission until the next level. That way, I can make sure I don't outlevel the spawn. Your situation is a bit different because you WANT to outlevel the spawn. Remember...risk = reward. Therefore, No Risk should = No reward.
Pinnacle -- Titans of Paragon
Blue 50s: 4 controllers, 3 defenders, 2 blasters, 2 scrappers, 1 tanker
Red 50s: 4 corruptors, 2 brutes, 1 dominator, 1 VEAT
Arc ID# 1427: High School Reunion
Arc ID#: 1671: Positron Revisited
but we still do not get anything and tech support is telling me the error is that we see the reward screen.. According to them all we should see is the mission complete and no DO/SO/reward selection. Now I know I completed the arcs before and I got my rewards (granted this was a while ago on my first hero.. ) So again when did it change that if we outleveled these mission (mind you I was 22 whn I did the Dr Vhaz and 23 whn I did the MR. Po so I am not sure how I out leved the missions..
[ QUOTE ]
but we still do not get anything and tech support is telling me the error is that we see the reward screen.. According to them all we should see is the mission complete and no DO/SO/reward selection. Now I know I completed the arcs before and I got my rewards (granted this was a while ago on my first hero.. ) So again when did it change that if we outleveled these mission (mind you I was 22 whn I did the Dr Vhaz and 23 whn I did the MR. Po so I am not sure how I out leved the missions..
[/ QUOTE ]
Because Dr. Vahz and Mr. Po only go up to 19.
Cut a swath through a bunch of -3 enemies and see how many inspirations/enhancements you get.
--GF
Up with the overworld! Up with exploration! | Want a review of your arc?
My arcs: Dream Paper (ID: 1874) | Bricked Electronics (ID: 2180) | The Bravuran Jobs (ID: 5073) | Backwards Day (ID: 329000) | Operation Fair Trade (ID: 391172)
OK well I did not know this.. But thanks for the answer.. I do suggest you make is of mob is white we get the reward as I an many other controllers can tell you we have a whale of a time defeating oj bosses let along oj Archvillian heh heh... But this is my take on it again thans all for the informaiton..
It was after all jsut me LOL 
[ QUOTE ]
You only get enhancements for killing a villain if they con Yellow or higher to you. (sometimes white)
[/ QUOTE ]
In personal experience I have found just the opposite to be true. Try doing the Positron TF as a lv 14. All the mobs will con yellow, orange, red or purple in most of the TF. But you will get few (if any) enhancement drops. Then on the few missions in the TF that used to be front-loaded where the mobs are blue or less, you get lots of enhancements. I have complained about this before, but no one responded. Something is seriously wrong with the way this is working.
If enhancements are to be dropped Via Risk/Reward model then the Price of Support-AT enhancements like Holds, Heals, and Buff/Debuff enahancements should be lowered further in price AND take over for "Drops" on these very minions and missions that are -1, -2, etc. since the Support Builds weren't made for soloing and were only soloing it b/c a good duo/team wasn't availabale to them at the time.
...Not to mention the Minimum-Level Boss bug such as the "Education Officer", the first Nemesis to show up in a story arc, and the Level 30 Rikti Chief I had to beat in a level 27/28 mission. Bleh... Some people HAVE to outlevel it just to beat those Bosses who DON'T FIT with the level of the mission assigned so Cryptic's argument in that respect is unsubstantiated I'm afriad
You're joking right? Enhancements drop on Yellow Con or higher? I hope that "sometimes white" means only slighltly less chance than yellow.
No kidding, I get enhancements more often on yellows and lower. More often on blue than anything (they're crap but they're there) I've killed lots of guys yellow and above (only thing I won't touch is purple bosses and large groups of purple minions and Lts.(Yes I'm a blaster)). And I hardly ever come across an enhancement.
I really hate those minimum level enemies, that recruitment officer I ignored cause I could, but that lvl 30 rikti boss in a 27 mission was 2 shotting me on ranged and one shotting me on melee, had to come back a level later bust every possible insp and then used my newly acquired short circuit to keep him from doing anything to me. Those things need some fixing.
[ QUOTE ]
No kidding, I get enhancements more often on yellows and lower. More often on blue than anything (they're crap but they're there) I've killed lots of guys yellow and above (only thing I won't touch is purple bosses and large groups of purple minions and Lts.(Yes I'm a blaster)). And I hardly ever come across an enhancement.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm getting few, if any, enhancements from blue-... I get a goodly share on whites and yellows, and every orange and red has been dropping them for me (on Cenobite...he's all I play now).
Just my own personal experience.
[ QUOTE ]
I really hate those minimum level enemies, that recruitment officer I ignored cause I could, but that lvl 30 rikti boss in a 27 mission was 2 shotting me on ranged and one shotting me on melee, had to come back a level later bust every possible insp and then used my newly acquired short circuit to keep him from doing anything to me. Those things need some fixing.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Education Officer's been fixed since the "Purple Patch". Even then, I did him on every alt that's made it to 18 even when he wsa spawning at a fixed level 20. He dun spawn like that no more... 
As to the others, I think anyone who demands they be changed is a wuss... But that's just me. I've done both the Rikti Chief Soldier and the Nemesis "Mysterious Soldier" at between levels 27 and 29 on various alts... Every last time, they were level 30 mobs (because, frankly, that's the lowest level they can spawn...and it's getting pretty tiring having to reiterate that constantly...). It's been like that since release, it's been like that through the "Purple Patch", and I hope it continues to be just like that.
Again, per Statesman's own words, "Sometimes you'll just have to call on assistance" (well...okay, that was a paraphrase...it was more like "you won't be able to solo everything").
I'm looking forward to facing the challenges those 2 particular missions represent once Cenobite reaches them... I hope to all that is holy, and un, that these remain untouched.
[ QUOTE ]
You only get enhancements for killing a villain if they con Yellow or higher to you. (sometimes white)
[/ QUOTE ]
So should I be sending a bug report when I get enhancements from blue-con minions? It happens more often than getting enhancements from yellow-con minions in my experience, so I'm guessing something is wrong.
Got to go with Bladewraith here. While I soloed the Rikti boss with my scrapper first time, but I wouldn't even attempt with my Defender.
My defender has run into a few situations where she couldn't split 2 orange bosses and because they some sort of healing power (like Freakshow) couldn't wear one of them down either. So I went outside asked if someone could help me defeat a couple bosses to finish mission (or a couple times to defuse bomb at same time as me) and so far I haven't been disappointed, someone has always agreed to help.
Of course then you need to make the commitment that when you hear someone ask for help finishing a mission, you go help them if at all possible. If everyone is willing to help this kind of thing becomes a non-issue.
Heck as a controller I would put out a request "Controler seeking partner/group to help with missions." What Controlers are missing solo they more than make up for duo or better. You may not get through a mission as fast with a Controler/whatever duo but you are much more likely to get through alive.
IMO Controlers and Empaths are great toons....for someone else in group to be.
----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You only get enhancements for killing a villain if they con Yellow or higher to you. (sometimes white)
[/ QUOTE ]
So should I be sending a bug report when I get enhancements from blue-con minions? It happens more often than getting enhancements from yellow-con minions in my experience, so I'm guessing something is wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]
I could be wrong, but I believe he's talking about the enhancement awards for story arc completion, not for individual mobs found in the story arc.
Controllers aren't supposed to be able to solo, you keep forgetting that. You need to group for all your missions, thats just the way it is.
D00de don't tell me bad news like that. I WANT to group but other ppl slow me down.
I just rolled through 3 missions in an hour here and cleared all mobs in them 
WHAT'S MY CONTROLLER DOING WRONG!?
[ QUOTE ]
Not a change. Storyarcs always worked this way, it just wasn't noticeable until the reward screen was added.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you're saying it's not an undocumented change, but it is an undocumented "feature"? Pardon me if I sound negative, but I ran into the same situation as the original poster (and too often can't find related information on the official site).
One storyline was challenging to my controller all the way through to the end, as was another storyline to my healer. I may have "outleveled" the missions according to some arbitrary database number, but nevertheless the villains maintained an appropriatly challenging level throughout and therefore rewards should be issued in all cases.
I would like to suggest that only when the final mission pits the hero(es) against opponents who provide no experience will there only be be some minimal reward reward given.
Alternately, or in addition to the above "smarter" reward system, each mission should note the levels for which they were designed, to better allow players to manage their missions and time.
[ QUOTE ]
Controllers aren't supposed to be able to solo, you keep forgetting that. You need to group for all your missions, thats just the way it is.
[/ QUOTE ]
All archytypes, including Controllers, are supposed to be able to solo. However, Controllers are not designed to be the best characters for soloing.
I find it hard to believe Statesman makes a comment that all characters should be able to solo, when XP reward is totally based on damage output. Too bad they don't reward AT's for their strengths, instead of of the non-sensical design they used.
OK got to go along with the yes I know controllers solo slower i mean duh.. An that does not bother me.. As I said above... Its not hard to get a grp to help when I need one, its just some times I perfer to solo and I have no trouble doing it with my conteoller... My error was not realsing I could out level the special reward offered for Story Arcs heh heh.
[ QUOTE ]
Got to go with Bladewraith here. While I soloed the Rikti boss with my scrapper first time, but I wouldn't even attempt with my Defender.
My defender has run into a few situations where she couldn't split 2 orange bosses and because they some sort of healing power (like Freakshow) couldn't wear one of them down either. So I went outside asked if someone could help me defeat a couple bosses to finish mission (or a couple times to defuse bomb at same time as me) and so far I haven't been disappointed, someone has always agreed to help.
Of course then you need to make the commitment that when you hear someone ask for help finishing a mission, you go help them if at all possible. If everyone is willing to help this kind of thing becomes a non-issue.
Heck as a controller I would put out a request "Controler seeking partner/group to help with missions." What Controlers are missing solo they more than make up for duo or better. You may not get through a mission as fast with a Controler/whatever duo but you are much more likely to get through alive.
IMO Controlers and Empaths are great toons....for someone else in group to be.
[/ QUOTE ]
What kind of Defender are you playing? I can solo reds - minions, lieutenants, or bosses - with my Rad/Rad, and have been able to for some time. Currently level 32, should hit 33 in the next couple of days. Granted, I use 'divide and conquer' almost exclusively, and am pretty good at single pulls, but I'd think most Defender builds could duplicate my technique.
Sir Sean the Starknight
How did this get turned into a "Can controllers solo?" thread? Can we stick to the topic or move to the proper forum, please?
Sorry for stepping on your job, CuppaJo.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Got to go with Bladewraith here. While I soloed the Rikti boss with my scrapper first time, but I wouldn't even attempt with my Defender.
My defender has run into a few situations where she couldn't split 2 orange bosses and because they some sort of healing power (like Freakshow) couldn't wear one of them down either. So I went outside asked if someone could help me defeat a couple bosses to finish mission (or a couple times to defuse bomb at same time as me) and so far I haven't been disappointed, someone has always agreed to help.
Of course then you need to make the commitment that when you hear someone ask for help finishing a mission, you go help them if at all possible. If everyone is willing to help this kind of thing becomes a non-issue.
Heck as a controller I would put out a request "Controler seeking partner/group to help with missions." What Controlers are missing solo they more than make up for duo or better. You may not get through a mission as fast with a Controler/whatever duo but you are much more likely to get through alive.
IMO Controlers and Empaths are great toons....for someone else in group to be.
[/ QUOTE ]
What kind of Defender are you playing? I can solo reds - minions, lieutenants, or bosses - with my Rad/Rad, and have been able to for some time. Currently level 32, should hit 33 in the next couple of days. Granted, I use 'divide and conquer' almost exclusively, and am pretty good at single pulls, but I'd think most Defender builds could duplicate my technique.
Sir Sean the Starknight
[/ QUOTE ]
The Rikti purple to me not red. I can solo a red but even then you have to get the "drop" on them, use a bunch of inspirations and get Rad infect, etc off before they 2 shot/stun/hold you. I play a Rad/Psi Defender and there just is no way I am soloing a purple indoors.
With most scrappers all you need to do is put up a few luck and accuracy and wade in with some health inspirations to fall back on. It is a very different situation.
----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
Ok so last night I was a L21 tanker, and I had just selected the Dr. Vahzilok mission. I did not sit on this mission and wait to outlevel it, I recived it at L21.
I took two people wit me to see the famous Archvillan, A scrapper L16 who I sidekicked and his wife a defender also L16.
Dr. V conned red to me. He was Level 19 even tho there were plenty of L20 mobs on this mission. Why were there no 21s? After this was the level of the mission taker, me.
Well I was happy to hear that they both got SOs for helping me complete this mission. There was no way with my damage output and Dr. V's healing factor I would have won this fight solo.
Why did I not get a SO? The challenge was clearly there. And those who helped me got theirs.
Is it just me? Ok I am not one to cry wolf so I bring this to the experts The Players I play a fire / storm controller we all know these solo slow. No problems (for me anyway). Now to my question.. I recently finished 2 story arcs. One was DR Vhaz One was TSoo Chain with Mr. Po in it I got the reward screen so I seleted a r3eward each time but got no DO. So I petition them.
Tech support tells me:
Thank you for contacting the City of Heroes in-game support team. There is a known bug that will allow a player to select a reward after completing a Story Arc that they have already out leveled. The bug allows the reward selection screen to appear, but the Enhancement is not rewarded. Because the Story Arc was out leveled by the character, the reward selection screen should not be appearing and no reward should be delivered. We apologize for this inconvenience.
Please let us know if you have any further issue.
To which I responded
Ok so when did this change go in I was not aware I could out level an reward for a mission I have accepted. For one I am a controller and some of these missions are impossible to solo. So I was leveling up to beat them..
this seems hardly fair at all.
Response from them was:
Thank you for contacting us. My apologies for the confusion. The reason why reward is not given is the level of that enhancement would not be in the correct level range for that player to use. All enhancement levels are respective to the level of the mission
I sent back:
Oh I understood that what I want to know is why / when we were warned that we could in fact out level these and then loose the enhancement.. Heck I could have still sold it or adder to one I had that was yellow.. again once we have the mission it does not seem fair we can out level it.. only do it once yes and you could the choose reward as a trigger for that so it is not needed as exploit defeat...
Latest response:
These features were added during Update 2. Before, when you would out level contacts, you would not get an reward. The only difference is that now you will get a reward menu and the reward will not be received. This will change soon to not show the reward menu when the Story Arc is out leveled. Please let us know if you have any more questions regarding this issue.
Now I looked all over the issue 2 notes and did not see this mentioned..
Did I miss something?
Has this been the way it has always been and I am nutz?
Was this a undocumented change?
I can live with out the DOs thats not my point. My point is had I known I could out level the reward I would have made sure to do the missions sooner so as not to miss out on a free DO / SO..