Debuff question.

Chiyoko · 10-11-2004 08:30 AM

Hello all!

Question for those in the know, does a debuff from the same power stack with itself?

I believe buffs don't stack, but debuffs do however I am not certain so I'm asking, thanks in advance.

-C

NinjaMonkey · 10-11-2004 09:13 AM

You have to be more specific. Some debuffs do stack. For example, with kinetics, I can siphon power multiple times. If I hit a target twice they get -50% dmg (-25 plus -25). It also stacks the buff for +40% dmg (+20 plus +20) to me and those near me.

Chiyoko · 10-11-2004 09:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You have to be more specific. Some debuffs do stack. For example, with kinetics, I can siphon power multiple times. If I hit a target twice they get -50% dmg (-25 plus -25). It also stacks the buff for +40% dmg (+20 plus +20) to me and those near me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that kinda basically answer's my question. I was talking with my roommate and I said that if I took a radiation defender, I would try out taking the first fast attack they get and 6-slotting it for defense debuff. It has like a 1 sec act. and a 1.5 sec recharge, so I would just spam that defense debuff. Then he says thats pointless because debuffs do NOT stack from the same power. And I said, yes they do, Geko even posted that they do. But alas the post has expired. So are there any DEBUFFS that do not stack with itself.

One other point, as far as I know, Parry stacks with itself and its a personal buff. Is that true? I was under the impression that buffs from the same power do not stack with themselves. But I may be wrong about this.

-Peace

NinjaMonkey · 10-11-2004 11:59 AM

I'm not sure about parry.

The rad attacks might stack debuff but the debuff duration is so short I think it's be a waste. In that specific situation you'd probably be better off with damage.

I'm not positive but there may be some debuffs that don't stack. However, I can't think of any right now. You might just have to search the AT specific forum for your question on a specific power.

geko · 10-11-2004 01:44 PM

In general, Debuffs stack, even debuffs from the same caster and same power on the same target (there may be a few exceptions, but I cant recall any at this moment). All debuffs stack if they come from a different caster, or from the same caster but a different power.

By contract, Buffs from the same caster and the same power on the same target do not stack. However, ALL buffs on one target, will stack if they come from a different caster, or from the same caster but a different power.

Backstab_NA · 10-11-2004 01:50 PM

For examples:

Debuffs:

You can use Smoke Grenade and debuff an enemy's accuracy, then use it again. If the first debuff's timer is not out by the time you cast the second one, you will have two accuracy debuffs running until the first one runs out.

If 2 heroes use smoke grenade on the same mob, then the mob will be debuffed twice. If 8 heroes use the same debuff, then it will get 8 stacking debuffs, etc.

Buffs:

If you use accelerated metabolism and buff your group and another hero uses accelerated metabolism to buff your group, then they will stack.

If you use accelerated metabolism and then (by using hasten and acc metabolism in conjunction) recast it before the first one wears off, it will restart the timer for the buff (so it lasts the full buff length) but you cannot have the two buffs overlap for those few seconds.

Zodnom · 10-11-2004 01:56 PM

SG stacks???

Glugankhamen · 10-11-2004 02:01 PM

While folks are looking here regarding debuffs.. does anyone have any idea what the -ACC secondary effect numbers are like on Dark Melee for scrappers?

With all the +DEF and -ACC going on, it's really hard to tell what's what, and I'm trying to find out just how useful it would be to deviate from the standard 1ACC 5DAM setup everyone uses.

I've heard that it's too low for slotting to matter, but any info helps.

theHasbeen · 10-11-2004 02:05 PM

You're going to have to clarify a bit here geko. Enervating field reduces damage dealt by 37.5% to an even level. Does stacking 3 of these cause them to heal you every time they attack?

Tibrogargan · 10-11-2004 02:06 PM

It really seems that villains FF stack from the same caster. If anything gets 2 bubbles on it, don't bother trying to attack it.

hexcore · 10-11-2004 02:18 PM

I might be wrong here but I thought that a Debuff can only be apply once per caster.

IE the sg from earlier post. no matter how many times "Blaster A" tosses his nade it only debufs it X amount. Not X time number of nades

Were as "Blaster A" and "Blaster B" each toss a nade then you have X plus X

This stops a "Blaster A" from Debuffing a Arcvillan down to what ever the Minimum To hit chase(5% Or somethis I herd)

Replace Blaster with Your archetype of choice and Nade with debuff of choice. Your mailage may varie

Kazarak · 10-11-2004 02:31 PM

So in terms of strategy/tactics a bad group says "No, we already have a Kinetics Defender" and a good group adds a 2nd or a thrid. Same with Bubbly Defenders. A group of 3 Kintetic Defends, 1 tank, 3 Blasters/Scrappers and a Controller is probably one of the better groups.

Kaphtor · 10-11-2004 02:36 PM

There are caps on the amount any variable can be buffed/dubuffed. I believe the cap on damage resistance debuffing is -75%, so when you reduce an enemy's resistance to 25%, it takes 4* the normal damage but never more than that. On damage, I think the same -75% cap might be in place (no less than 25% of normal damage). I can't recall that cap specifically. The caps on defense and accuracy are well known, you always have a 5% chance of hitting/being hit. As far as I know, it is possible to have 100% chance as well (by buffing accuracy/debuffing defense). Damage resistance caps out at +90%, so 10% of damage always will get through.

I'd also like to know the amount by which secondary effects debuff defense (for rad) and accuracy (for dark), but I do recall seeing that it is a very short effect, usually only as long as the recharge on the attack or a bit longer ('attacks' like twilight grasp, which don't actually do damage, are longer). I doubt many people slot these attacks to enhance secondary effects, because they wear off so quickly.

Pennelope · 10-11-2004 02:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]

By contrast, Buffs from the same caster and the same power on the same target do not stack. However, ALL buffs on one target, will stack if they come from a different caster, or from the same caster but a different power.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure that there are exceptions, right? I'm 99.9999% sure that Clear Mind stacks from a single Empath. At least, based upon the list of icons next to the target on the team window....

La_Tortuga · 10-11-2004 02:59 PM

Actually, I am fairly certain Siphon Power stacks from the same caster too - My kin controller pairs with another kin controller and we routinely see 4 Siphon Power icons on us at the same time. From limited testing, the amount of damage our pitiful attacks do does appear to grow with each successful application.

So, I think there must be some exceptions (or are the exceptions bugs?).

Kagenushi · 10-11-2004 03:04 PM

Yes Syphon Power from the Ken line does stack. At one time I had done a few missions where it was My Ill/Ken and 2 other Kenetics (A controler and a Defender). We where able to lower the NPCs damage to such a point that we could withstand a few hits and our damage was not unotiably low as usual. We by no means Pwned the mobs but they where much easier.

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9783_Dollar_Man · 10-11-2004 05:15 PM

Clear Mind stacks, too. You can get a ton of little Clear Mind icons next to a teammate if you are persistent.

Lord_Entropy · 10-11-2004 06:13 PM

Hey Geko, I think it's time you changed your sig. No one is complaining that acc has been nerfed anymore, except some of us DM scrappers here.

Idioteraser · 10-11-2004 06:24 PM

They allowed clear mind to stack since it is a protect buff and doesn't really buff up the person being clearminded. No increased damage or reduced damage just that status attacks don't do their secondary on the hero. They do damage however. Smoke grenade from the same user was not allowed to stack.

Most debuffs do not stack and most buffs are the same. Would be too powerfull if they can stack from the same user.

Greyhawke · 10-11-2004 06:26 PM

I really would like official clarification on whether the Acc Debuff of smoke grenade stacks from the same caster. I know at one time they had decided it should not stack, but maybe that was before they 'fixed' it.

Backstab_NA · 10-11-2004 06:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So in terms of strategy/tactics a bad group says "No, we already have a Kinetics Defender" and a good group adds a 2nd or a thrid. Same with Bubbly Defenders. A group of 3 Kintetic Defends, 1 tank, 3 Blasters/Scrappers and a Controller is probably one of the better groups.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. . . the best defense in the game is still just killing everything uber fast and defenders and tanks work against that. Plus, one controller does all the support jobs better than a tank or a defender combined and with pets they do better damage output. So your "best" groups are still one good controller and as many blasters as you can find.

But that is from a min/max stand point for maximum xp/time. You can do quite well with any group mix as long as the players behind the heroes are intelligent and work well together and exactly for the reasons you just gave.

Synfoola · 10-11-2004 11:01 PM

I could have sworn someone important saying that Freezing Rains from same caster won't stack. I'd like clarification on this cuz if they DO stack, then I'm 6 slotting that mother with recharge.

Blaster_Zzzt · 10-12-2004 12:20 AM

I suspect the rule on combo debuff/buffs is...

If a buff requires an atk, it's self stacking.

Can't think of anything that violates this rule.

Storm_Revenant · 10-12-2004 03:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
In general, Debuffs stack, even debuffs from the same caster and same power on the same target (there may be a few exceptions, but I cant recall any at this moment). All debuffs stack if they come from a different caster, or from the same caster but a different power.

By contract, Buffs from the same caster and the same power on the same target do not stack. However, ALL buffs on one target, will stack if they come from a different caster, or from the same caster but a different power.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sprry Geko, but your information on buffs needs an amendment there...

Siphon Power stacks both ways. On a good timing of shots I can stack up to 4 times on myself and imps.... and from the same targeted villain.

-Storm Revenant-

Fires Within: Lvl 50 Fire/Kinetics Controller (Champion)
Steamed: Lvl 50 Thugs/Dark Miasma Mastermind (Freedom)

Sihada · 10-12-2004 03:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You're going to have to clarify a bit here geko. Enervating field reduces damage dealt by 37.5% to an even level. Does stacking 3 of these cause them to heal you every time they attack?

[/ QUOTE ]

You probably know the answer to this, and are just being silly. However, in case you are not...

Let's say the MOB's base damage is 100. Hero 1 hits it with Enervating Field. Now its base damage is 62.5. Now Hero 2 hits it with Enervating Field. The 37.5% is applied to the MOB's current damage (i.e., 62.5) and the MOBs damage after the second EF is 43.75.