Debuff question.
By
9783_Dollar_Man,
Posted on: 2004-10-11 08:30 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Um, no. It's a flat add on debuffs. -40% + -40% on 100% is only 20% left over.
{Tested this several times on a CoT Boss. All Defender SG's work wonders when you have three people with Darkest Night or Enervating Field/Radiation Infection. Wiff-wiff-wiff no damage.}
Still here, even after all this time!
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So in terms of strategy/tactics a bad group says "No, we already have a Kinetics Defender" and a good group adds a 2nd or a thrid. Same with Bubbly Defenders. A group of 3 Kintetic Defends, 1 tank, 3 Blasters/Scrappers and a Controller is probably one of the better groups.
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Not really. . . the best defense in the game is still just killing everything uber fast and defenders and tanks work against that. Plus, one controller does all the support jobs better than a tank or a defender combined and with pets they do better damage output. So your "best" groups are still one good controller and as many blasters as you can find.
But that is from a min/max stand point for maximum xp/time. You can do quite well with any group mix as long as the players behind the heroes are intelligent and work well together and exactly for the reasons you just gave.
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I have to agree with the first post, You might not need 3 kinetics defenders, but if you make one an empath, that is a pretty solid group.
-Peace
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You're going to have to clarify a bit here geko. Enervating field reduces damage dealt by 37.5% to an even level. Does stacking 3 of these cause them to heal you every time they attack?
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Enervating Field does not lessen the damage dealt. Enevating Field lowers a Targets Defenses, and Resistance to damage. So you hit them easier, and do more damage to them when you hit them. It is also a Toggle, so you cannot self stack it regardless.
It will however stack from two different characters. And you can stack it with Radiation Infection as well as the rest of Radiations Debuff line.
Enervating Field does not lower defense. I would guess you are thinking of radiation infection. EF only lowers mob resists (thus increasing damage that mob takes) and the mob's damage.
<stupid English, BAD language! BAD! :Rolls up newspaper:>
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Not really. . . the best defense in the game is still just killing everything uber fast and defenders and tanks work against that. Plus, one controller does all the support jobs better than a tank or a defender combined and with pets they do better damage output. So your "best" groups are still one good controller and as many blasters as you can find.
But that is from a min/max stand point for maximum xp/time. You can do quite well with any group mix as long as the players behind the heroes are intelligent and work well together and exactly for the reasons you just gave.
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That's not true either. If you have 6 blasters in a team, adding just one ~33% resistance debuff is like adding 2 blasters damage to the team. Adding two debuffers is like adding 4 blasters damage. Also depending on their skill sets, odds are 2 defenders/controllers will decrease your down time through healing/end/def buffs.
I think the best min/max team is probably 1 tank, 1 scrapper, 1 blaster and 1 defender hunting in a hazard/trial zone. Let the tank and scrapper both herd up 1 or 2 groups of +2s. Bring both mobs together, apply debuff and let the scrapper and blaster AOE em out of existance in a few attacks. If there's a boss or lt in the group, the scrapper will have em dead in no time.
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By contract, Buffs from the same caster and the same power on the same target do not stack. However, ALL buffs on one target, will stack if they come from a different caster, or from the same caster but a different power.
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Does this mean I should bug Siphon Power? 
It is the same buff from the same caster yet it will stack with itsenf for about 2s. And yes, I have confirmed it with damage numbers as well as the graphics. For 2 attacks after the 2nd Siphon Power they will do more damage than the rest of the attacks which have only one Siphon Power applied which, in turn, has more than the base attack.
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By contract, Buffs from the same caster and the same power on the same target do not stack. However, ALL buffs on one target, will stack if they come from a different caster, or from the same caster but a different power.
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Does this mean I should bug Siphon Power?
It is the same buff from the same caster yet it will stack with itsenf for about 2s. And yes, I have confirmed it with damage numbers as well as the graphics. For 2 attacks after the 2nd Siphon Power they will do more damage than the rest of the attacks which have only one Siphon Power applied which, in turn, has more than the base attack.
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I had not noticed that. I can test it next time I'm on. I might be able to stack siphon powers still. I assumed that each application was a -25% to target damage. If not, I would say it's a bug.
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While folks are looking here regarding debuffs.. does anyone have any idea what the -ACC secondary effect numbers are like on Dark Melee for scrappers?
With all the +DEF and -ACC going on, it's really hard to tell what's what, and I'm trying to find out just how useful it would be to deviate from the standard 1ACC 5DAM setup everyone uses.
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It sure would be helpful to have that info... hell, it would help just to have it confirmed that the debuff duration is tied to the duration of the "dark cloud" effect on the target.
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You're going to have to clarify a bit here geko. Enervating field reduces damage dealt by 37.5% to an even level. Does stacking 3 of these cause them to heal you every time they attack?
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You must not have read previous patch notes that stated that all debuffs are capped at 90%
If you reduce a target's damage by 18000000% (through any combination of powers) they will do 10% of their original damage.
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By contract, Buffs from the same caster and the same power on the same target do not stack. However, ALL buffs on one target, will stack if they come from a different caster, or from the same caster but a different power.
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Does this mean I should bug Siphon Power?
It is the same buff from the same caster yet it will stack with itsenf for about 2s. And yes, I have confirmed it with damage numbers as well as the graphics. For 2 attacks after the 2nd Siphon Power they will do more damage than the rest of the attacks which have only one Siphon Power applied which, in turn, has more than the base attack.
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Please note that geko said that these were general rules, there are exceptions. Siphon power will always stack with itself (6-slot it for recharge and perma-hasten and nearly cap your team's damage in a long fight)
I think this may be the case because Siphon power is not just a buff, it's a debuff as well, and one that has a chance of missing. Anyone know if Siphon Speed stacks with itself?
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So in terms of strategy/tactics a bad group says "No, we already have a Kinetics Defender" and a good group adds a 2nd or a thrid. Same with Bubbly Defenders. A group of 3 Kintetic Defends, 1 tank, 3 Blasters/Scrappers and a Controller is probably one of the better groups.
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Not really. . . the best defense in the game is still just killing everything uber fast and defenders and tanks work against that. Plus, one controller does all the support jobs better than a tank or a defender combined and with pets they do better damage output. So your "best" groups are still one good controller and as many blasters as you can find.
But that is from a min/max stand point for maximum xp/time. You can do quite well with any group mix as long as the players behind the heroes are intelligent and work well together and exactly for the reasons you just gave.
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If you have ever grouped with one good Kinetics defender, You'd know how much they can increase the whole group's offensive abilities. With 3? That's insane. Really, really insane. You'd be oneshotting minions with brawl.
Smoke Grenade does not appear to stack from same caster. Is this by design geko?
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If you have ever grouped with one good Kinetics defender, You'd know how much they can increase the whole group's offensive abilities. With 3? That's insane. Really, really insane. You'd be oneshotting minions with brawl.
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Except you will have hit your damage cap... Now, 2 kins and a Rad w/ EF will allow for the mob to take more damage than the cap.. Or even 1 FF and 2 Rads.
mmmmm, Radiation.. Glhlhlhlhhlhh...
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You're going to have to clarify a bit here geko. Enervating field reduces damage dealt by 37.5% to an even level. Does stacking 3 of these cause them to heal you every time they attack?
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You must not have read previous patch notes that stated that all debuffs are capped at 90%
If you reduce a target's damage by 18000000% (through any combination of powers) they will do 10% of their original damage.
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Wow! Capped @ 10% and not 25%? For EF/FR if you debuffed their resistance down to 10% you are doing a 1000% damage bonus!
4 Storms or 3 Rads should do it.
I seriously doubt resistance debuffs use the same caps as dmg debuffs.
I'm also not entirely convinced resistance debuffs aren't delt with as dmg buffs for capping purposes. Meaning even with uber reist debuffing, you still can't exceed 4x base dmg.
Just giving it a little bump, Can't have Geko's responses go the way of the expired threads.
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I seriously doubt resistance debuffs use the same caps as dmg debuffs.
I'm also not entirely convinced resistance debuffs aren't delt with as dmg buffs for capping purposes. Meaning even with uber reist debuffing, you still can't exceed 4x base dmg.
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I think that they do actually, use the same caps
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In general, Debuffs stack, even debuffs from the same caster and same power on the same target (there may be a few exceptions, but I cant recall any at this moment). All debuffs stack if they come from a different caster, or from the same caster but a different power.
By contract, Buffs from the same caster and the same power on the same target do not stack. However, ALL buffs on one target, will stack if they come from a different caster, or from the same caster but a different power.
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How come Envenom does not stack then? Is it a bug or only a few powers like Envenom does not stack?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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(there may be a few exceptions, but I cant recall any at this moment)
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I think Envenom falls under this category.
Also, you are really really late to the party.
Mission Arc: Metatronic Mayhem (Id 1750): A tale of robots gone wrong, rogue robots gone right, and madmen gone every which way but loose.
Well, they never were clear on the SG fix about allowing stacking from a single blaster but the real change was the mistake where it provided -50% ACC instead of -5% ACC allowing it to effectively get the ACC to the 5% floor in two hits....even if it does stack now, you are only getting the 5% ACC each time - which is great if you have patience and it does stack