mercykilling
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Posts
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Joined
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For those of you that say, "Every game must die" I point to the oldest MMO's I know. EQ and EQ 2. STILL going. Still have people playing them. Little to no support, or development...but they're out there still.
CoX could become like that easily. A revenue stream for NCSoft that isn't burdened by developer and support salaries. Well...some support would be necessary. Have to at least skeleton crew police the boards and game.
Point is...there's a LOT that could've been done, but instead it got the plug pulled. Rather suddenly.
And yeah...everyone that has paid subscription time beyond the projected shutdown date SHOULD contact credit card companies and dispute the charges from Nov. 30th forward. Absolutely.
I've been saying ever since the announcement...the only way to truly make your voices heard is to impact what matters. NCSoft profits. Money.
Until that happens....they'll just shut the game down. And likely give no other announcements beyond what they have already. -
Quote:Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
When the EU forums were merged with the US ones, her US ban should have been retained. She was banned for a VERY good reason.
Edit: She's not worth it.
GG was banned from the NA boards? Since when? I've been popping in to read the defecation that occurs on these boards for....years now. I've always seen his/her/its posts here. -
Guild Wars 2, from what I can see of gameplay trailers and the like on YouTube is a -beautiful- game. It seem that yes, some of the ideals that were founded and refined in this game are in it, along with others that are simply amazing.
However...it's on www.ncsoft.com and that means....no matter how much it might appeal to me...I'll never pay money to play it. No game I see there will get my money.
And I do agree with the "let's not do this" people. It's not time yet. We're still trying to get NCSoft to agree to sale of IP and license. However, those same people need to understand this true fact: The best way to get a corporation that only cares about profitability to listen is to cut into it. Deeply. We as a community need to be prepared to do just that if it is what is needed to be heard and taken seriously.
So, for now...be civil. Be nice. Be respectful. -
....you see threads like this one and go...
"NO SUCH THING." -
As I've said...having tried DCUO and CO.....I'll take CO as filler until something else comes along.
That said....City of Heroes is what...8+ year old now? And CO is three + ?
Champions was only made after Jack Emmert got canned from this game. To me, CO will always be the redheaded stepchild of this game, even after this one goes away. (IF)
That also said...there's things that CO has that CoH doesn't. Holy god. Lairs. And a TAILOR IN THE LAIR. Some pretty damn good costume pieces that aren't direct copies. I've seen a couple heads that made me have to look twice. Wait...three times. Okay, four. But no more than five. Six?
I still hope and pray that our efforts will save this game so it can go on and perhaps see some of those things come to life in CoX.
CO's graphics are still way too cartoony and WoW-ish for me to really like. It's not a matter of superiority...it's a matter of realism. CoX just looked more...lifelike, even with mittenhands. *sigh* I hate comparing games...but after CoH? Yeah....everything will have this huge candle held to it. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Airman_America
Yet more obvious trolling. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Airman_America
Obvious troll is obvious. -
Yeah. BLOCK. Which.....I'm still going WTF about. It's like.....they wanted to make it as different as they could and harder!!
Also...I've noticed that just about every costume piece is a direct port from here. They've got -celestial armor- pieces, for crapton's sake!!
Oh. And just passed by a billboard earlier that could've come STRAIGHT from this game except the name "Chris Jenkins" isn't on it.
It's a shoddy copy.....but...it might very well be all there is for a long time. -
First and foremost...thanks to the community there for the offer of acceptance. And yes....they're serious about it. I've made a character there.
However...the graphics look like 80yearoldass. And pretty much all the costume options are direct ripoffs from here. Which is to say a good thing...but when combined with those godawful graphics.....no.
Also...the tutorial....I must suckhairydonkeyballs because I cannot solo the last mission's bad guy. When everyone else seems to be able to.
Here...powersets galore. There....railroad "builds" with powers that -must- be taken or you've a gimped build.
For the most part....I can get past the graphics. And...if I want a superhero game..it's CO or the cesspool that is DCUO or Marvel's attempt.
No thanks.
So....bitter pill that it is, I'll take it. Until something else comes along. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Mazey
Yeah, that makes sense... It's always a good idea for a company to ignore the laws and court orders of a country they operate in just because their headquarters are located somewhere else...
Actually....companies have moved their corporate HQ's /out/ of US soil to avoid environmental and labor law restrictions...why not other US laws?
See....THEY have the billions...so THEY can afford to say to their consumers "Frell you in the poopchute." (being inventive with words to avoid filter, YAY!) -
Quote:I am indeed referring to the possible choice to not refund monies spent on subscriptions that extend beyond the cutoff date. And....because they're a corporation? They've got the money to make sure they don't have to refund.Originally Posted by Obitus
If you're referring to NC's potential decision not to refund money for undelivered CoH subscription services, then that may or may not be within their rights to do, depending on a whole host of factors.
And yeah, regardless, consumers have a right at least to fight against the latter decision, to whatever degree they deem worthwhile.
Likely what NCSoft will do is offer credit towards another of their products and no direct refund. And if you refuse....too bad.
That isn't a 100% sure scenario...but I'll bet my left !testicle! it's what will happen. -
Why does this news not surprise me in the least?
And there will STILL be people trying to say "don't blame NCSoft" /despite/ this total ***** move.
And yes, it's totally within their rights as a company and corporation to do.
However, it's totally within the rights of the consumer to dispute the charges as a service paid for but no longer offered. Might be tough, though. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
I didn't say you weren't trying to help. I said that an overtly hostile attitude towards NCSoft could wind up having you **** in someone else's cornflakes. That, in and of itself would NOT help.
If you wanna be angry, fine. Just know where to draw the line.
So, in order to "help", I need to stifle my first amendment right to free speech. Not happening. I /will/ express my displeasure with what's been done. Just as you're free to tear down what I say. Or try. End of the day comes, and I'm looking in the mirror, I still feel good about the guy looking back. I can say I've done everything I can to help, /AND/ have voiced my honest opinion about it all rather than cowtow and buttlick for popular opinion.
That last sentence is NOT implying that you do, Hyper. It is however, saying that it does happen in these forums. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
*snip*
A corporation, as you state, is a legal concept. It was a person or group of persons that choice to lay off everyone at Paragon and kill this game. I see no reason to continue supporting that person or those people financially.
Actually Bill....wrong. Here, read this.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...dered-a-person
Corporations twist law so that it favors them to be considered individuals when it suits them. NCSoft is a person. That person is the CEO. I hate NCSoft for doing this underhanded move.
Quite a few people paid subscriptions for the whole year, and to date...nobody has received word on their money and what will be done about it. Quite a few people spent money on points to stock up for the new issue release and powers and such. That's gone now. No word of refund forthcoming.
Granted, all this is a "yet" caveat...as NCSoft might very well release to the aforementioned people what they intend to do about this, but..so far?
Diddly and squat. Or, as Bruce Campbell said in Army of Darkness, "Brother...right now you're in charge of Jack and S*H*I*T*. And Jack's left town."
That's wrong. Very much so. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
If you wanna be angry, more power to you.
But please try to be somewhat civil. Otherwise, you could do or say something that could severely hurt others' chances for helping the game and community out.
Totally left out the part where I said I have done -everything- suggested so far to help save this game. Way to go. I've even printed flyers with the site addresses for the petition and titan network's plea and the call to boycott NCSoft products and handed them out at PAX in Seattle recently.
So...do NOT accuse me of not trying to help.
But!! I'm not going to simply keep my displeasure at what they've done secret, either. I've also been far more civil (lately) than a boatload of posters decrying NCSoft.
I will admit to being angry right after the news, and posting inflammatory remarks. This I do apologize for.
BUT...nothing in the post you quoted was uncivil, sir or ma'am. Kinda like this one.
I'm over the original outrage, but still displeased enough to plea with others to not buy NCSoft products and not purchase them myself. After all, as you've so eloquently put...a corporation is out to make money. Quickest and easiest way to show them they've made a mistake? Cut off revenue. Pragmatic solution, nothing more. -
Quote:Originally Posted by StrykerX
NCSoft may have done a lot for us in the past, but they also shut down Paragon Studios and tossed all of their employees out the door without notice. They didn't just decide to close down the game, they fired everyone on the spot and shut down everything but the actual servers without notice. That isn't something I'm prepared to forgive... not just because I'm mad that the game is ending, but because I feel for the entire studio of people who showed up to work on August 31 only to find out that they no longer had a job.
Maybe that's normal procedure for large scale layoffs. I neither know nor care. I just know that I would be angry with any corporation who did it ("everyone else does it" is not a valid reason for being total jerks) and when it also means my favorite MMO is going away, then yes... I'm even madder.
I enlarged and bolded the pertinent statement here.
This is the reason why we should start fighting back. Because it's common practice now for corporations to commit social injustices, environmental atrocities, and even yes...kill. Perhaps not go out, buy the gun and the bullets...put it to a head and pull the trigger...but yes, through actions and policy...kill. Perhaps not people...but certainly end things for assorted species.
And the ONLY justification a corporation can give for doing all of these things is MOAR MONEY FOR ME.
/WE/ can change this. /WE/ must change this, for corporations certainly won't change it for us. Not as long as we're content to sit aside and let them get away with it.
Edmund Burke said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Let that sit for a second. Digest it. Then look back over the last thirty years...(if you've lived that long...if not...check history)...and see that corporations have been crapping on us for AT LEAST that long.
This event? Straw. Camel's back. For me, at least. I'm tired of being walked on. Yes, I want my game back. Yes, I've done -everything- suggested in these forums to help.
But I'm -also- gonna take the radical approach and boycott. Blog. Tweet. Hand out flyers at game cons and anime cons and such. Because the more people that know....the more chances there are of someone else doing something to make a difference. -
Y'know...this is all well and good...the game might just be fan-freaking-tastic and all...but I can go to www.ncsoft.com and STILL find advertising for GW2 there. That's all the proof I need to convince me to not play the game.
Never mind that NCSoft pulled the plug on Paragon Studios pretty much without warning. Ten days before the announcement, a new powerset was released. We had all kinds of announcements and news on i24. That evidence alone tells /me/ personally.....NCSoft didn't care to let Paragon Studios know it was canning them until the final day. THAT....is why I'm not buying anything I can find on NCSoft's page.
The ONLY way this would change is if NCSoft sold off the licensing or game engine or both to continue this game....or if it reverses its decision to shut it down and continue the game. That's it. And I -still- might not get GW2. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
And I do care about the community and the game. But I'm also willing to let it go if it comes to that. Maybe I'm just heartless, maybe I'm not "devoted enough," I don't know. But the way some people are acting? No, not even City of Heroes is worth that, and quite frankly, it detracts from what the game "means" to us all to stoop to that. As my version of Commander Shepard said to Earth high command when explaining why not causing genocide to the Krogan cost them the Salarian fleet: "The price was simply too high."
As I sit here trying to support what's left of City of Heroes, I ask myself... What, exactly, is it that I'm sticking out for? An intellectual property? A business? Vengeance? And the truth is that... No. None of the above. I stand for people losing their jobs with no warning, that's something worth being upset over, but that we can't really change, not at this point. But when it comes to City of Heroes as a "thing," what is it that we're fighting for, really?
All I know is what I want out of it more than anything else. I want my imagination back. Games come and go, but City of Heroes represented an idea and an ideology. To me, the message that Paragon Studios left us with is one of creativity, one of communication, and one of chasing our dreams. Despite all the fighting and the villainy and the world-destroying, I never logged on because I wanted to kill stuff. No, I logged into City of Heroes because a group of very cool people put in their blood, sweat and tears to let me live out my dream, and then kick me on the *** and force me to think up a better dream.
City of Heroes is where dreams are born, and I feel those dreams will live on far beyond the game itself. Even if we fail to save City of Heroes - and we probably will - I want to cherish those dreams and those experiences as they were. To start insulting people and ruining business is, to me, to trample what the game meant to us. Paragon Studios left us with a legacy of creation. Just what is it that we're saving if all we care about is making NCsoft pay? That's not what City of Heroes is about.
Y'know Sam....I've disagreed with things you've posted...and I've agreed. You're quite eloquent where usually what I have to say is all diluted with emotions and feelings and such.
But you nailed it there. THAT is why I want CoX to continue. Those people in Paragon Studios were pioneers. I hope they stick together and move forward.
I still hate NCSoft for the dick move, but hey. It's corporate greed. My response is to never again support their products and to warn people away from them.
Kudos for eloquence. -
Quote:Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
1. GW2 is developed by ArenaNet who, much like Paragon Studios, are WESTERN (they actually operate in Washington State) MMO developers in the same position with NCsoft being their publisher.
2. Attempting to do any harm to GW2 means you're only putting more Americans out on the street.
3. This continues to tell NCSoft the West in unprofittable and further discourages them and other publishing game companies from bothering with the West.
4. You only HAVE to buy GW2 once anyway. You can get just about anything from their cash shop in game through playing, even the currency for said shop.
1) www.ncsoft.com Go there. What games d'you see? I see that Guild Wars 2 is listed on the main site as one of their products. Not blaming it, but it'll get no support from me. NO NCSoft product listed there will.
2) It's already been made clear that NCSoft favors the Korean market and is pulling out of the NA and EU markets anyway. Likely the company will shift its developing and production out of america, because self respecting americans won't work for what amounts to pennies anyway.
3)I refer to the previous answer. They're already pulling out. Which your father should've done.
4) No. A thousand times no. NCSoft is never getting another dime of mine UNLESS....and this is a big if still......UNLESS they sell off CoX license, game engine or otherwise make sure the game can continue. Otherwise? No deal. Ever. At all. -
Quote:Originally Posted by General_CoH
I'd love to make this a poll, but can't find how, so I'll just ask.
If all your characters were deleted, your veteran status, everything (even forum posts), and you had to start from scratch, would you still continue to play this game, or would it be too much of a setback?
From scratch? As in, day one? It wouldn't affect me in the least. I'd happily start over if it meant I could keep City of and my friends. Hell, some of the ones I've made recently would appreciate it too. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Starsman
It's not really racism, although it is greed. It's just business. The Asian market is much different to the American one. In Asia, MMOs are still heavily enjoyed by people in Cyber Cafes, not out of necessity but because it's some form of social activity to do so.
Here they pay by the hour; and the cybercafés license the titles not as purchases but on a monthly lease.
CoH, not being of interest in Asia, has no way to expand in the market the owners of the company are familiar with.
No trying to defend them, but the racism card should not be tossed around so lightly.
To be perfectly honest....America and the citizens thereof aren't exactly loved worldwide. And I can't blame anyone. Our government is kinda dicking the world over. Which bleeds through in public opinion.
It's not fact, no. But I'm fairly certain there's some hate there. It happens. That much, at least is fact. Might not be the -deciding- factor...but it's a factor. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Feycat
No.
I'm saying that going out of your way to hurt Anet isn't going to help Paragon. And you attacking other members of this community doesn't help, either.
And that blaming Anet makes as much sense as blaming Paragon. They're both studios that published under NCSoft, with their funding.
But you have never EVER ONCE seen me defend NCsoft or say that NCsoft didn't do a terrible, stupid, awful, unwise, cruel, callous, idiotic thing.
Nobody ever said they were blaming ArenaNet. At least....I haven't seen anyone do so. Methinks you are mistaken.
Besides, ArenaNet has tons of other games for revenue. If I can go to www.nscoft.com and see a game advertised there....it's blacklisted. Never going to let it see one red penny of mine. The -only- way this could be avoided is if NCSoft doesn't kill CoX entirely. If they are magnanimous and sell off the license and developing rights....perhaps I'll check out some titles of theirs. But nothing with a sub fee, that's for sure. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Brillig
I would not. CoH has been marginal for quite a while now.
CoX may have been marginal, but it wasn't bleeding money like Aion. Nor as poorly managed. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Starsman
As long as it appeals to the korean market, they will not shut down games.
Unfortunately, Dungeon Runners, Exteel (oddly), Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault and City of Heroes all are game that didnt appeal too much to the asian market. I still not sure why Exteel didnt fit there.
Which is quite a low thing to do, totally exclude other markets in favor of one. It actually reeks of two things to me.
Greed and racism. One for sure, the other is just a feeling, no actual facts to back it up.
Oh, I bolded and changed the color of the relevant statement here. -
Advertisement isn't the /game's/ fault, though...it's the advertisement department's fault. And the parent company's fault. NCSoft is the big bad responsible for closure. Not the game. The game was a steady source of income. Just not how much NCSoft wanted. It was profitable, but not profitable ENOUGH. So, instead of cutting another more recent game that bled way more money that CoX EVER did....they ax this one because it's older.
Simple math and greed is the reason for the death of this game, nothing else.
Nothing about the game itself was bad. It''s weathered EIGHT YEARS of ups and downs. EQ and EQ 2 are probably the only games I know of that're older and still going and MMO's. Let's hope CoX can go where they did.