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I'd have to disagree. While variance is good thing, I feel there's a significant performance gap between the sets that benefit from the higher magnitude and mez protection and those that come away with mostly just mez protection. Wouldn't it be poor design if, for example, one Scrapper primary was able to crit with much more consistency than another? Don't people often raise this issue with Defenders' Vigilance? The key feature of the AT should function consistently across all sets. The fact that some sets benefit from it very little, Ice Control for example, to me is poor design.

Well, that's one... but that's opposed to /rad, /cold, /TA, /Time, /Therm and soon Dark Affinity. All of which also offer up some -resist and -def (with the exception of DA, -resist only) as well. Doms do have some access to that, Sleet most notably, but for the most part are kind of limited with spawn to spawn -res/def. I could see Ill/Psi/Ice being a monster of a build, but so is an Ill/Cold controller; the dom would pull ahead in AoE though.

So far, I'm still in the camp that Ill on a dom would be no worse than it is on a troller. Of course, given how long it's been since proliferation began, it's obvious the devs aren't there with me.

The thing is the different versions of Shield Charge, etc. have been assigned to different AT's, each power called a different version of the pet because they were different powers. We've even seen different AT's calling on the same version of the pet, like Freezing Rain, for instance. There has been an aversion to creating multiple copies of a power even for the sake of compensating for AT modifiers. However, that may be changing.

Perhaps I am assuming too much, but it seems that TW and the new Assassin Strike are not using modified conditions on existing powers as Domination does. They seem to be calling powers with different values and animations... at least that's what I'm speculating. Before I go on making more wild speculations, I'll have to see if I can get that question answered.

I doubt they'd change PA in this way, but the secrecy and hype around Dark's tier 9 have me wondering if some kind of shadow clone is in the works...

Perhaps you need to examine you unambiguous wording as I'm not the only individual to interpret it as such. And again... this discussion of Mind control has been far from objective from the very start. Obviously, there are things to be said for the utility of Mind's controls in both the early and late game, and you've even commented on Mind's early potential. However, the importance that should be placed on early vs. late game or vice versa is obviously a subjective matter and any discussion of a sets value are going to be tinted by that fact.

I have already addressed my statement about Mind's AoE damage by presenting my view that its confuse powers contribute to its damage potential. Admittedly, that is a difficult measure to make as it varies from mob to mob.

I always think of my old Druid from Diablo 2 when someone mentions a Beast mastermind. I like the wolf/big cat/bear line of thinking. I think they could, rather than have their own tier, place birds in of some sort as a power akin to Hell on Earth, an eagle or similar that would buff a single pets tohit and periodically attack, or Gang War, calling down a flock of ravens for a limited time.

First, I'll address the issue regarding AoE. I'm quite sure you'll disagree on however. If pets can be considered a portion of a sets AoE potential (and you have already included Illusion's) then Confuse (and Deceive) must be as well as it grants Mind (and Illusion) a virtual pet with every spawn. Confusing a single lieutenant or boss in a spawn undeniably reduces the damage contribution need from the player to defeat the mobs. In fact, confusing a boss is sometimes a poor tactic in regards to xp/time due to the amount of damage they can deal to their allies.

A simple examination of the uptime of hard mezzes may favor Fire, however, Mind offers more soft control and the benefit of aggroless control, something which we obviously value differently. For instance, Mass Hypnosis in my experience is not only a soft control, but an aggro management tool that allows the player to shed aggro from himself while temporarily halting incoming damage, similar to Placate. While you may not view that as a significant advantage, I have utilized it regularly, from disengaging ambushes such as those in the SSA allowing me to focus on the mission complete objectives to shaking off pursuers in the Lambda trial.

In your opinion, they do not compensate for mind's weaknesses.

As to psi resists and defenses, Carnies are the only group that actually has inherent defense to Psi across the board; Rularuu Whisps are unique in their faction for having some. There are factions which have significant resistance to Psi among their mobs, most notably Arachnos with Fortunata and Widows and Malta Titans. However, what is overlooked when this argument comes around is how much more prevalent smashing, lethal, and (to a lesser degree) energy resists are (though rarely as strong), which affects Earth, Gravity, Plant, and Electric. In fact, all of the mention mobs have other resistances in addition to their resistance to mind.

On a side note, the old Praetorian robots also highly resisted psi, but have been largely replaced with Clockwork and Warworks which do not. Unfortunately, this has led to the misconception that all robotic enemies have high psi defense.

In my experience, Arachnos are the worst enemy to fight with a Mind Control because of the combination of psi resist found among their ranks and the mez protection many of them possess.

Again, you don't consider Mind's early advantages worthwhile. However, not long ago, the devs released statistics showing that the vast majority of characters created do not reach level 50. In fact, the DFB trial was created to help accommodate the many that rarely even reach level 20. Having that advantage early in the game is quite significant if it maintains a person's interest in playing later on.

Oh, but you did.... bolded for emphasis.

Apart from fun... in other words, setting fun a part... putting it to the side... our goal is to complete content. Let me ask, if we put fun apart, what purpose is there in completing content? Is it a goal in itself?

You entered this thread with a dismissive tone and claimed to offer a "more objective description" of mind control. It was, perhaps, more objective than ES's enthusiastic description of the set, however, it is skewed by your own preferences and playstyle. The matter of Mind's various advantages and disadvantages is, obviously, up for debate. To present yourself as an objective authority is a charade. While from your perspective, hard numbers may be a reason to play a set for many, and dare I say most, the subjective fun factor is why they play.

That's a nice dig you attempted to get in there, but unfortunately it missed its mark. I thoroughly enjoy Mind for what it is and have used it on several characters; however, my attachment to those characters isn't strong and two are slated for retirement once I've stripped their IO's. Now do you wish to imply that I'm somehow emotionally invested with the set itself?

A simple case of YMMV. What you find irrelevant, I find highly useful for those scenarios and will actively seek them out far more often. Sky Raiders, Trolls, and Destroyers are all groups where I appreciate Mind's ability to circumvent positional defense. Paragon Protectors also come to mind. Also, tightly knit Cimerorans.

I disagree. Empathy carries its own bias as well. It's buffs definitely alter the performance of any set with a pet. More importantly though examining a primary alone provides little insight because it will never be acting on its own.

Ice/kin or Mind/kin? Neither set is stellar for damage, but I prefer Mind/Kin for previously stated reasons. Fire/Emp or Mind/Emp? I'll definitely go with the Mind/Emp; low aggro means I'm safe to buff and heal. Mind is a natural pairing for buff oriented secondaries if your primary goal is a support role.

I'll agree that Mind does lose out when it comes to Interface powers. Without a spammable attack or numerous pets to trigger the procs, it loses not only damage but also the debuffs from those powers. Unfortunately, I think that speaks more to how unbalanced some of the Interface choices are rather than an inherent defect in Mind control. Sadly, with the newest batch of Interface powers, rather than bring Reactive in line, they've added more DoTs.

Obviously, your prime metric is how fast a character can defeat the enemy, a nice objective measurement. However, you're setting aside how much faster your allies can defeat the enemy with your support which is a more difficult metric to measure, especially with the inclusion of how much safety/uptime between defeats coming into play and non-peak performance. The importance placed on spamming the AoE immobilizes for damage also fails to recognize how dangerous this is for a large part of the game until you've built enough recharge for a reliable spawn to spawn control or the defense to survive uncontrolled mobs. Unfortunately, those objectives include investing in the invention system or utilizing epic power pools, which tend to come in effect late in the game. Unfortunately, this is also the point when most of your teammates have achieved their own survivablity via the same means, depreciating the value of control and shifting the preference towards damage. However, the end game is not the full game and an objective analysis will consider performance at all levels. TL;DR version: Your objective analysis is biased towards end game content and non-standard play (playing alone at x8).

More importantly, your dismissal of fun should stand as a warning to anyone who looks toward your advice to take it with a grain of salt. When we return to the OP's question "Why play mind control?" fun is very much a factor and objective analysis of dps and survivability do not address his question fully.

Then there are 5 or 10 people that will see that price, think to themselves "too high", and pass on the item without ever saying a word. It doesn't require a majority to sustain this business model. Fewer customers willing to pay much more will buoy those that won't.

Why are the setting these price points? Because they're still fresh to the market is my assumption, as are their consumers. I know I spent quite a few of my points during that initial month and have felt some buyers remorse. Now that I'm buying extras with the monthly stipend (as opposed to the large amount given at Freedom's launch) I'm much more cautious with the points. How long until that sort of behavior comes through in the data?

No mad here. We'll just wait and see how things balance themselves.

Any of the self buff, such as Decimation: Chance for build up, will only fire on the first target. Procs that affect the enemies seem to work just fine throughout the chain, which includes damage procs and the chance to hold/stun.

Does this mean unlikable people are bad? That would be bad news for you, GG.

But jibes aside... you're pretty far off. A lot of very bad people are very likable and very charismatic and that is why they're able to get away with doing bad things and find success in convincing others to do bad things for them. Conversely, there are good people that are quite unlikable because their dedication to "the good" puts them at odds with a larger, more morally neutral majority.

This is incorrect. The proc from contagious confusion will not cause aggro. I have used it on both my mind and illusion controllers, in confuse and deceive respectively. It will never notify enemies.

It's not like it needs to be a brand new, awesome animation. Give it the Air Superiority animation and a particle effect. BAM! It's done. Don't like that? Then there are plenty of other melee attacks that could have the rad particle effect attached to them.

A Munitions assault set, though not my cup of tea, could probably be easily pulled off. I'd love to see a Whip assault, but I doubt that's in the cards.

First, allow me to direct you to the suggestions forums.

Secondly, you may need to consider what doms are as well. Their primary is control, just the same as controllers. Their secondaries are a mixture of melee, single target ranged attack, one or two AoE attacks, and generally a self buff. All of your powers are AoE's. As others said, without the damage in a few of those, it would be a potential debuff set (but even too AoE heavy for that role).

I'll agree it is. It is the only control set that benefits from domination in 8 out of its 9 powers. However, being better for a dominator doesn't at all mean it's bad for a controller.