houtex
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Yeah, well, sure, not knowing is right... I mean, he stomps around in Japan, not Korea, after all.Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
... or the meetings were interrupted repeatedly by godzilla attacks- we don't know why).
Mike
/No, that abomination with Ferris Beuller and Blue Raja doesn't count, it should have been called "Trexasaur" or something.
//Not real sure the cartoon with Godzuki counts either.
///Perhaps you were thinking of Gwoemul: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468492/ -
Quote:Indeed, and thank you for pointing that out. I apologize for my overreaching blanket statement. But excepting those exceptions (ugh, that's so wrong of me to type...) I'm guessing a majority shouldn't have expected any 'legal obligation' on NCSoft's part.Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
You have to remember that the EULA doesn't trump local laws either. I know that talking as an EU player, that just by shutting the service down, that for any complete months of unused time (ie a subscription) you are entitled to a refund.
Now, if NCsoft had gone bankrupt, then yes, you are at least *mostly* correct. We just then become one of the many people owed money (and to be honest, we would be faaar down the list on those who would be paid back)
I know I didn't.
Mike -
Continue my sub as usual (or however they want me to do that) and be the VIP I am.
And play it.
And be thankful.
Mike
/hopin' the Devs and Mods can be part of it if possible, of course, too.
//Oh, and continue to make new and strangely powered combinations and be successful at it.
///Still lookin' for that AoEinator type character... Not enough End to do it so far...
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90% first try. That was...
Well. Words fail me here.
Mike
/nostalgia is fun!
//Also... creeped out a little. o.0 -
Not tryin' to open a can-o-worms here, but this was makin' the rounds at CoHTitan:
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....ic,5228.0.html
And it's pretty clear what I thought/read/interpreted is true: We *do* own stuff. Not NCSoft.
We don't own the artwork. But we own the assembly process that lets our characters look like they do. We own the Bios. We own our mission texts, and the makeup of our missions.
And without the game client... how can we use this?
A Legality I don't even know how to begin to talk about... this was the bit I was workin' on, but was tryin' to be sure that I had it right in my head... even though I spouted off on that earlier.
I don't wish to start a fire, but... perhaps a smouldering possible... perhaps an injunction is A Thing that needs to be investigated by someone way more lawyerly that I. NCSoft can't prevent our using the engine if we have copyrightable, usable characters... maybe. I dunno. Just a thought.
I'm gonna go off into the corner and rock now. My head hurts...
Mike -
Aw yeah. A 50 BH is going to be an hour to take down. Bring it, and yes, all for Pocket D Arena!
Mike -
"Honor their legal obligations?"
The refund/restitution program is NOT a legal obligation. Go read section 4b of the Agreement, the big bolded part about halfway through.
This is above and beyond their legal obligation, as it were, as we all agreed by playing the game (and/or having an account) they can just say "oh well, too bad, thanks for the cash!" But they didn't. Perhaps our displeasure had something to do with it, but they could have been *real* nasty about it, and perfectly within their "legal obligations" in doing so. And given some of the vitriol against them, I sort of thought maybe it might happen they'd get all huffy and do exactly that: Keep the monies, and say "g'way now, we're done." A small percentage chance, I figured, but it was a chance nonetheless.
I wanted to point that out in case someone decided to pick up that ball and try to run with it. Nope, people, this is not A Thing(tm).
I'm glad to see they're trying to be nice about things... even if they are stabbing us all in the feels with the closure.
But we're not dead yet! Keep on keepin' on people!
Mike -
So... that means we're crazy?
I'm ok with that. Here's to crazy winning the day!
/em victory
Mike -
My nose wrinkled up at this. Does that count?
Mike -
I can't improve on what I sent before (except a couple of typos... grr,) so I resent it to the new address. Hope it helps our cause! *crosses fingers*
Mike -
I'll put in a call to Rupert Murdoch, perhaps he can help, yeah?
Mike
/Who is laggin in his quest for the unspoken accolade here at 82 posts to go AOTP...
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Quote:Oh, yes. Brawling Humiliator can go back to being solo artist. Not that he minds being a tank, it's just the fights at that level are just... *over so fast.* It's way more satisfying to be surrounded and brawl them all into smithereens. Or that time with Chimera... that was epic.Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
If this actually goes down as described, and I truly hope it does, then I'd resub hard.Quote:Originally Posted by Rubberlad
I *think* they're trying to legally uncouple the studio and all its assets from NCsoft/NCwest so it becomes it's own separate legal business entity (assuming NCsoft agree to relinquish "ownership" over several pieces of... "stuff." The negotiations would require a hard separation date between companies (for a variety of reasons) but that August 24th cutoff date for refunds is *very* telling.
Plenty of complications and financial implications arise from this kind of transaction (not accounting for global legalities as well) and there's a chance the game could be "inaccessible" after November 30th until such time as service is restored...
Tricky and I'm oversimplifying all the legalities and risks involved to do something like this, but I think NCsoft's intent to provide refunds is a pretty good reason to stay hopeful.
And then harass the living hell out of Mr. Miller to fix solo incarnate progression. So, hey, he's got that to fight for as well!
Be nice to get better iXP for that mah efforts of survivablity and win.
On the whole shebang... Not getting hopes up to far. But this is better news than we've been gettin' in a bit.
Frackin' work. I gotta go. Laters.
Mike -
I'd say your only recourse is to call NCSoft, as regardless of their sunsetting CoH, the fact is you *could* play other things under that account, so it's in their best interest to get your account back up...
..Unless you were flagged as "a bag of Nope" on their end... in which case, the call is still what you'd have to do to find that out, maybe.
It is perhaps a fault of a hacked account, or a really easy password, or just plain dumb blind luck your info was a lil' corrupted.
They'll fix it. Watch. Call 'em.
Mike -
Forget my earlier... I changed my mind, misread, hungry.. distracted. Probably shouldn't have typed all of it.
All hail Paragon Studios, and City of Heroes!
As for NCSoft... well... I'll see what happens.
Mike -
Quote:Nah. All the 'good humans' will get to leave first... or we'll push the telephone sanitizers and the like out and keep the planet for ourselves. Until we die from infections from dirty telephones...Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
Honestly, as much as I would love the idea, the human race as it is (socio-economic) would frighten me to have this kind of power.
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The articles are incomplete, in that, yes, if you believe the eggheads... they have reduced the power requirement to *run the field* from Jupiter to a Voyager 1 mass, which is about a Volkswagen or two.
But what they don't seem to say is how long that will keep the field up. Just that will make the field happen.
You would likely still need about a Moon's worth of fuel to get you to Pluto, I'm guessing. Still, an improvement.
Perhaps it's like the inertia problem with cars and such. Lots of power to get the field started, but once started, you get great MPG...
Especially if you're hypermiling. Which you will be, come to think of it...
So... maybe a Voyager to get the field established, then another Voyager to keep it running until you get to Proxima Centarui: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxima_Centauri
In which case... well, heck, gimme one. See ya!
Mike -
Hm. I can make a 'Bank' on Victory if I don't have one there yet. Although it does seem a little slimy on my part to do that, being a Pinnhead and sometimes Virtue, Champ, and Guardian visitor...
However, if you're just absolutely set on giving away 1 billion inf *pinky finger to corner of mouth*... then... well...
I'mma go with I need/deserve to have it...
>Because.<
Thank you for your consideration of my reason, and good luck to all who enter!
Mike -
Brawling Humiliator will be prowling the maps, all of them, from November 29 through 30. Period. If he happens to be in RWZ during a raid, so be it, and he'll be part of the throng.
But he'll be there. Everywhere. Visiting every map possible. From Paragon to Praetoria to Rogue Isles and back, brawling anything in his path. Including the Shadow Shard, from one side to the other and back. RV. RWZ. Grandville. Both Sewers. And the Hollows tunnels.
All of it.
Nobody will stand before BH... None shall be allowed to stop him. And if they do? He'll go to the hospital, and make his rounds again.. and again.. until he finishes that map, and moves on.
Because that's how it's gonna BE.
Long live CoH!
Mike
/DA in the back might be... dicey. But I'll do mah best.
//Come with! 24-7 brawling action isn't boring... is it?
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Quote:Right on. I don't even freakin' *OWN* a shovel.Originally Posted by jwbullfrog
You know what always makes me feel better?
Logging into Paragon City and beating the snot out of something.
I'll be exercising that option as long as it is available to me.
Who's with me?
We're not dead yet. Put down the shovel.
Brawling them feels so much more satisfying. Especially if there's 10 or so of them, and they all fall down... eventually.Quote:Originally Posted by Unknown_User
Zapping criminals makes me feel good
But with ya, brethren, with ya. Keep on keepin' on the gaming, it'll show we're still THERE.
Mike -
Daaannngg.... That was *creepy*. Very nice!
Mike -
Quote:I kinda hope both work, myself... But yeah, physical stuff having to be dealt with versus email bulk delete... the physical stuff is more impactful.
Think about it. What would impress you personally more. Opening your email in the morning and seeing that you have 10,000 new messages or having the USPS truck pull up and drop off bag after bag of physical letters. Which would you be more likely to ignore and which would you be more likely to start looking through out of curiosity?
Mike -
I'll be there too.
No... wait, I won't.
Because I'mma be running around the entire edges of all the maps from Atlas Park throughout the game, all zones, both sides, Brawling everything in my path until the very last punch is thrown...
...provided there's not a 'we're back!' announcement.
Mike
/Come with me, and let's beat the hell outta things November 29-30!
//I'mma take a day off from work for this. Seriously. 24/7, no-doz on standby.
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We all just lost The Game. Thanks DarkGob. Thanks a metric ton.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game)
:|
Mike -
Quote:If there was a call for the 'stop' from a Redname... it would have been done already. I can tell you right now that Dr. Aeon and Fire Man are both on. They can get a hold of Zwill, and this whole thread is dead before it really even started. And they're not the only Reds watching.Originally Posted by Knightward
I'm extremely worried about this move. Sure, it has the potential to do good, probably; but it also can very easily backfire horribly. I'm not going to go on much about that because frankly it's gone back and forth enough in this thread.
That said, I will be writing an email. However, I will give a couple days to mull it over. For obvious reasons, I do NOT want to screw it up. So I need to make absolutely sure that I do it right. And, admittedly, in case a redname jumps on saying something to the effect of "Guys, not cool. STOP!" I'd rather not have contributed to the final nail in the game/community's coffin. Again, I'm thinking it over so I can do this the most effectively.
Further, Zwill would have probably banhammered TonyV, regardless of his involvement, the very minute the post came to his attention, if it was a problem. Forum tweaks such as these are trivial matters on vBulletin. It apparently is not a problem. Yet...?
I'm thinking at this point, the only ones who will protest would likely be the three whos emails are out there... and they are unlikely to do so. Doing so would be... bad PR.
As silly as 'bad PR' sounds there... it's the truth.
Mike -
Exactly correct. Any and all code belongs to NCSoft. Also, all artwork. And any created just for the game sound. As well as the copyright of the mission texts, and the coding to make them happen.
Basically, everything in the game is theirs, with these notable exceptions:
Your character's or characters lore.
Your character's or characters specific assembly instructions.
The assembly instructions of any Mission Architect arc you created, as well as any lore you wrote for it.
Any custom character(s) lore or assembly instructions for any MA arc.
With these exceptions, everything... **EVERYTHING**... else is either theirs, open source, or a couple of other outfits such, as Cryptic, and you can't have it unless you buy the whole kit and kaboodle.
'You' there being any entity that wants it, that is. Not YOU... you can't afford it anyway, yeah?
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In reading the Agreement between you and NCSoft, there is wording that indicates that YOU allow THEM to use your creation(s) as they see fit.
The wording also... well... sort of... kinda maybe... implies that you do have rights to these creations, as listed above. The specific words in the agreement are "To the extent you claim rights to..." Which clearly, in legalese, says that no matter what came before or since, you have a claimable right on something the game has in it.
But what is that? The categories above. Basically, copyrightable BY YOU information.
The character's lore... its background, aka, the Bio. YOU made this. YOU own it. YOU get to keep it and YOU get to use it as YOU see fit. You simply also agreed that THEY can use it however THEY see fit... but YOU OWN IT.
Now, apply this to the mechanical portion... You made the character using their pieces. You created a look for this character. THAT IS COPYRIGHTABLE.
The pieces themselves, however, are not. ONLY the information needed to create the assemblage of the character's various pieces are owned by You. This includes the colors, the sizes, possibly the placement (if it can be moved, that is) and the particular pieces and art out of the library they allow you to choose from.
This assemblage data IS YOURS. You get to keep it. How? I dunno. And how can you use it? Again, no clue. But you can haz it all you wantz.
Now apply these concepts to the Mission Architect and the custom critters you can make, and those are yours too.
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In other words, if you can print it out as a description, text, or instructions, that is a copyrightable, owned by you with full rights "thing", no matter what the creative process/engine used to make it with. In this case, the City of Heroes Engine is used to make these creations 'work'.
And in this respect, NCSOFT has no obligation to keep the Engine working for you to use the creations... but sure, you can have them. Enjoy.
:|
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I've been reading the agreement a little, but I'm not fully done with analyzing it. There may be something that, while I'm not sure would work, might stop the closure. Possibly. WAY TOO PREMATURE TO SAY, DON'T ASK. Won't save the studio. Just save the ability to use the characters by keeping the servers alive.
But seriously, SERIOUSLY... DO NOT hope on this. It's just something, an angle, and I'm not even sure it's possible to do. Legalese is interesting stuff, and interpreting it is... tough. Especially since...
>>>IANAL.<<<
So take all that up there with a small grain of salt. But I published software, and code copyright in the states is what it is. We own the character's traits, it would seem. Ditto MA arcs and critters traits. But that's about it. NCSOft owns the rest, and we explicitly allow them to do with our stuff whatever they see fit, including deletion if need be.
And that last is... well, the nail that will sink my possible idea, but... I'm going to explore it anyway. The wording on the 'delete/modify' is pretty explicit regarding a breach of agreement in regards to a few specific factors... none of which apply, ostensibly, to what's going on with the closure.... Let ya know laters when I figure it out, if that's possible.
Mike -
The bracer on the right arm is different than the right. I'm gonna go with some sort of CGI effect with an "impossible to really be real gun" is possibly gonna be used on that hand, so they don't mind it being 'naked.' Perhaps like a nanobot-gun or something that makes itself as needed, so there's no internal thigh holster.
Just a guess. I'm probably wrong.
Also, I am *positive* they used the Co* creator for that costume. Isn't that the Enforcer chest armor with some Praetorian Clockwork leg armor? And that hemlet is a non-lighted Arachnos Crab helmet.
/This proves it: Co* is so awesome, movie studios is using it as a prototyper for costuming. How cool is THAT?!
//Oh, and... that is a lame lookin' Robocop. Seriously. Way disappointed. Looks more like a streamlined Dredd or something.