dave_p

Earth/TA. Lock thread.

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What is this AV chain you keep mentioning?

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AV = Attack Vitals. As I mention in my reply above, the BF > AV combo is your highest damaging attack chain, and by far, for the vast majority of DB scrappers and tanks. Any other combo you try to run *will* lower your DPS.

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DB isn't really for the ST monster, its much better as an aoe set.

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WM is far better for AoE than DB--DB can be quite the ST monster w/enough recharge (again, see my reply above this one). It is better for ST than WM, but there are other sets even better for tanks if you're looking for ST damage. Of course, those sets suck for AoE... Having said that, if you can fully leverage SS's cone, esp as part of the AV combo, then yeah, you can put out some very respectable AoE numbers. And Typhoon's Edge is only behind FSC and Foot Stomp for tanker PBAoEs. Too bad 1000 Cuts is so damn slow...

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Actually those who PVP

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Stop right there. I'm talking strictly PvE. The OP stated he's not interested in PvE. I don't care about PvP in the slightest and don't build for it--if you do, more power to you, but for the context of this thread, let's stick to PvE, shall we?

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If you consider 2 more attacks "huge"

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Abso-freakin'-lutely, esp if you're building towards something like def cap and max recharge. Every power choice and every single slot matters. A ton.

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then you have to know that with those 2 attacks DB is made whole, as an attack chain combo and overall dmg.

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This is the entire basis of my point that you're more or less "forced" to take all the powers in the set, to set up your AV & Sweep combos. Otherwise, why would you ever bother w/a slow & low damage attack like Vengful Slice (yeah, yeah, knockup)?

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Thats the point, you have all the moves so you can be more devastating.

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No, you become devastating by knowing what few moves are most damaging, and then repeating the process. A running joke for scrappers is that the ideal ST chain is Headsplitter > Headsplitter > Headsplitter.

For DB, the (near) absolute top ST chain is BF > AB > SS > AB, but this is almost impossible to achieve by yourself. You'd need a recharge time of 1.61 for Ablating, 2.87 for Sweeping Strike and 3.17 for BF. I think Shred & Werner showed an even higher DPS chain (involved 3x stacking BF for SS), but that requires even more ridiculous recharge and considerable outside support. What most ppl are "stuck with" is the BF>AV combo, which requires greatly less recharge, and pretty much everyone can achieve a gapless chain with it (and it turns out it's very good at around 155DPS for scrappers, unadjusted for BF stacking, crits (tanks don't get 'em anyway) and AV combo DoT, so adjusted, it should be in the 170-180 range, which is very respectable--lower for tanks, of course). Any other combo lowers your DPS.

Now, for a tank, Sweep is certainly worth it, and of course you want Typhoon's for the AoE, but that should be it. Unfortunately, both combos, BF, and the fact that you're forced to take Nimble makes it every power in the set minus Taunt. Compare that to a Scrapper that can skip the taunt, Nimble & 1000 cuts w/o suffering an ounce (that's actually 3 powers, btw). Huge difference in flexibility and how you can build the toon.

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As I posted before DB is for the tactician, WM is for the hammer types. But dont take my word for it, make an AE with DB enemies and WM weigh the differences of power and speed.

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I have 2 DBs and a WM and more than enough experience w/both sets. What you might want to do is crunch some actual numbers before trying to tell ppl what they should be doing. Please don't take this as being hostile--I simply think you aren't really well aware of the numbers of which you're speaking. I assure you, I am.

Again, you don't need to do any of this to have fun with the game--there just happen to be some of us who enjoy number crunching. However, if you're going to make a solid argument for the benefits of your playstyle, you really need to be able to back it up with some data, not just, "A feels like this, B feels like that."

A bit off topic, but since you mention WP in another post... not needing HS is kinda silly. Maybe it could be delayed til later, but I wouldn't recommend it. Both my WP builds have 45% S/L def and 750-ish% regen w/1 mob in range of RTTC, but I still gnash my teeth that I can't get above 40% exotic defense (okay, that's a bit extreme... ).

RoF is awesome for things like zombie invations, Rikti MS raids, and a lot more situations than you might initially think about. It has excellent DPA, assuming things live long enough to stay in its range, and is good to fire off before Inferno, since the fear effect might keep the survivors busy (and may well kill off those pesky stragglers). I didn't have RoF in my build for the longest time, but once I respecced it back in, it's here to stay!

If you don't have Fire Breath, there's almost no point in being a Fire blaster. Well, no, you still have Fireball & Blaze, but still...

Why Stone? Because Mud Pots is the best tank aura. Discuss!

/em gets more popcorn

Cones also can smack you down if you're in too close, but not too close for PBAoEs. There seem to be some other attacks that kick your a** for some reasons.

My Fire/Rad, who normally has no trouble w/GMs or most AVs, got killed by the Zeus Titan, and when checking the combat logs, I noticed one of his powers (can't remember which atm) had like a 24% chance to hit me instead of the usual 8.5%. He got in a string of lucky shots before I could RA myself back to full (I always try for no insps) and got me, the rat basterd.

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The important things for me are:

Fireball
Fire Breath
Blaze
Build Up
Aim
Shiver
Ice Patch
Stamina

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You're putting in Shiver in your must haves, but not RoF? For shame! I'd also put in Hasten above BU, since it's Hasten that lets you bring up BU & Aim (and everything else) faster.

Also, I really like Freezing Touch. I especially like FT and, say, Char to lockdown bosses. And Chilblain to keep AVs and the like away from you (and pumping up your ranged def). If you can't get your def in the high 30s or above, I also consider Med pool pretty key.

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It depends Dave, if you pick WP, you can acquire QR and skip getting Stam, ( I have done this and with ease). And get everything else without having to worry.

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No real skippable powers in WP either tho, except for Resurgence and maybe SoW. That's a whole lot of powers to take and not a lot of room for pools, even if you do skip Fitness, which I wouldn't anyway just for Hurdle (Hurdle + CJ ftw) & Health. As for Stam, you *can* skip it, but you have to slot well for end redux. I did it w/my DB/WP scrapper, but had to frankenslot a lot for heavy end redux and it hampered my BF>AV chain when Hasten was down. I was a lot happier when I just took Stam and was able to slot for set bonuses & far higher recharge.

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Lastly, Even as a Macer, I assure you , you will be taking all attacks but one, maybe due to low dmg or what have you, but every tank I see usually has 8 attacks by 50. DB just makes you pick one more.

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I'm assuming most ppl who play tanks don't bother to really crunch numbers, which is prolly all to the well since most ppl don't enjoy that sort of stuff. If they did, and even cared slightly about optimizing their builds, they wouldn't take more than 3 or 4 key powers. Again, there is nothing wrong with not crunching the numbers, but if you're going to be handing out advice based on effectiveness of various powers and powersets, you sorta owe it to the asker to analyze the powers a bit more thoroughly, I think.

Fact is, WM only needs Clobber, Whirling Mace, Shatter & Crowd Control to be effective. Bash is required, so that makes 5, and if you don't have enough recharge, you'll likely want Jawbreaker (or if you want the knockup). However, I consider JB to be totally skippable as its DPA is only slightly better than Pulverize, and I'd much rather fill my gap w/an epic blast (granted, Fire Blast has a slightly lower DPA than JB, but its overall animation is faster and thus reduces your overall DPS less, plus is ranged and opens up Fireball). So that's 5, maybe 6 powers vs. 8 for DB, and 2 powerslots is *huge* in my book.

Skipping passives in Invul is a whole different argument, and one I don't wanna get into here... or anywhere really.

DB is inherently slightly underpowered because it's balanced around the combos. W/a ridiculous recharge (usually requires outside buffs), you can get by w/a BF>Ablating>SS>Ablating chain w/Typhoon's thrown in for the AoE for a pretty high DPS, but for normal play, if you don't take advantage of combos, you're sorta gimping yourself. Not to say there's a rule to say you have to play your powerset to their full potential, but... well, I sure as hell would rather.

BTW, the BF>AV combo doesn't require all that much recharge, esp if you're running Hasten. As long as you get Vengeful's rech down to 4 sec (4.092 to be exact), and assuming you have *some* recharge in your other attacks too, you're perfectly gapless. And if you're surrounded by mobs, you'll likely be doing BF>TE>AV anyway.

Edit:

To MuMuGuy, I never said that Inv/DB was "unplayable", just that I wouldn't wanna play one. Inv is a bit more forgiving than WP or Shields (couldn't do that combo anyway) for power choices, so who knows, it might work out.

To Liathan, your calculation on the scrapper thread is correct, but your conclusion, while accurate, is a bit misleading. The longest animating attack is the most vulnerable to not having enough recharge, which is why I said you need to bring down VS's recharge down to 4.092. If you do that, the others will almost naturally get down into the 5 sec ranges required for the gapless BV>AV chain.

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3 EndRed and 1 Taunt. It requires nothing else to fulfill its role.

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Again, you should play with Herostats running just once to see how much total damage Pots does. Even unslotted for damage, as you undoubtedly have it, it'll likely surprise you. And considering for 4 slots (the same as your suggestion) you can fully ED cap end redux *and* damage, I see no possible reason why you wouldn't want to maximize its significant damage.

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DB makes you take every power

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Yikes, I hadn't considered the full implication of that. Like I said, as a scrapper, you can get away w/skipping quite a few attacks, esp 1000 cuts, and just do AV over and over. As a tanker, you'd want both the AV & Sweep combos, plus Blinding Feint, which puts you at 6 powers, then you're forced to take Nimble Slash, then if you take Taunt over all that, you're literally stuck w/every power in the set. No wonder I don't see too many DB tanks--I'd definitely go for Mace.

I tend to prefer Mace for tanks (which is to say I don't particularly like DB for tanks, though I love it as a scrapper) as well, but just to play devil's advocate, DB gets the fairly awesome Sweep combo for mitigation, that's actually pretty poor for damage so it's skipped quite a bit for scrappers. For my scrapper, it's all about BF+AV combo repeated to death (the mobs'), which does incorporate a cone, and Typhoon's Edge for when I'm surrounded. Tanks can get a lot of mileage out of Sweep, I think.

Still... I'd take Mace.

Edit: I looked on my DPA spreadsheet and really, WM shouldn't do all *that* much better on the AoE front. WM is actually worse than Typhoon's Edge, and WM's 2 cones are about comparable to DB's 2 cones. Big difference is that Crowd Control is a 180 deg arc which gives WM the edge, though Sweeping Strike does better damage and if you chain it w/the AV combo, you're doing DoT as well. I know Stars' chart has WM way in front of DB so I'm guessing that wider arc and the fact that 1000 cuts is so slow animating makes a big difference.

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I usually do damage, end, accuracy in order of most to least emphasis. The reason I emphasize damage is because Mud Pots attack pulse is about the only damage you have that's not slowed by Granite (because it's a toggle). Yes, it doesn't do tons but it's steady while you do other things.

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Agreed, but I'd cap dam & end redux, both at the same order of priority. Oh and run Herostats and tell me Pots doesn't do a "ton" of damage compared to your other powers, in or out of Granite. Damage auras are always overlooked by ppl who only look for the big orange numbers, but they're almost always among your best attacks for overall numbers and even end efficiency, as long as you're playing correctly (i.e. not concentrating on 1 mob at a time--gather them around you!).

Oh, and single proc comes out to about 16.6% of the total damage an ED capped (for damage) Pots does, which comes out to the same as a single SO, so it's a tradeoff bet. slotting for damage or a proc. Of course, the correct answer is max out damage & end redux, and then proc away.

My slotting at 50:

Multi Strike D/E
Cleaving Blow D/E
Scirocco's D/E, A/D/E, Proc
Eradication Proc

You can also fit in an Impeding Swiftness proc, but it's smashing (as is Obliteration) and I wanted Eradication's energy damage. Scirocco's is lethal, but get's me a bit more neg resistance. Obviously, if you can afford it, stick in the Armageddon proc for a higher chance to hit.

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Generally speaking, you're only really toggling back Rock, and maybe Minerals, and those situations you're reliant on Minerals, you're prolly not getting into Granite in the first place (at least if you build properly). Most ppl bind Granite & Rock to toggle between the two. Still, that's a valid point, as is...

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You would also need to make sure Rooted is on, if you weren't running it already, for some status protection.

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Rooted doesn't toggle off w/Granite. If you were treating Granite as an emergency power (akin to Hibernate, as I describe above), you wouldn't turn off Rooted in the first place.

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1) toggling granite detogles your other armors. You can only switch back stright into one protection leaving a lot of hole opens until you manage to patch the rest.

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Generally speaking, you're only really toggling back Rock, and maybe Minerals, and those situations you're reliant on Minerals, you're prolly not getting into Granite in the first place (at least if you build properly). Most ppl bind Granite & Rock to toggle between the two. Still, that's a valid point, as is...

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2) all those arguments just would lead the devs to make granite have a higher recharge after de-togling or another sort of nerf than allow the rest of the set to be sub par, should they decide to look at them.

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Which is why I already mix in some recharge IOs in Granite, because the recharge time bet. Granite can already kill you if you're not careful. But I agree, I'd rather the devs not think about this too deeply, so I at least will stop talking about this matter. Like I said very early on, I like Stone just fine the way it is.

Capped for S/L def only, and w/o seriously gimping the toon in any way, I don't think. I gave up any recharge more than is necessary for a seamless AV combo, so no Hasten is necessary. I never use it, but even have the Sweep Combo set up if I really need it. End management is only an issue if a fight goes over 2 min, so pylons and the like might be a problem. Still considering swapping out Stamina for SoW, but that would crimp my end management even more. Global acc is a touch low, but as long as BF hits, I should be okay.

Anyway, I got my S/L def to 45.7% and regen w/just 1 mob in range to 725%. Shouldn't be *too horribly* expensive either w/no expensive purps to buy--prolly well under 500M (not exactly cheap either, but what are you expecting?). Comments and critiques are welcome.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

San Te: Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dual Blades
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Darkness Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Power Slice -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(48), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(3), Numna-Heal/Rchg(3), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(13), ImpArm-ResDam(13), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(36)
Level 2: Ablating Strike -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(34)
Level 4: Fast Healing -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(7), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(7), Heal-I(43), RgnTis-Regen+(45), Mrcl-Rcvry+(46)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(37)
Level 8: Blinding Feint -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 10: Typhoon's Edge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(11), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(11), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Oblit-%Dam(34)
Level 12: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 14: Mind Over Body -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(15), RctvArm-ResDam(15), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(17), Numna-Heal/Rchg(17)
Level 18: Vengeful Slice -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 20: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 22: Quick Recovery -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(23), EndMod-I(23)
Level 24: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 26: Sweeping Strike -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Oblit-%Dam(33)
Level 28: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(31)
Level 32: Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 35: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(36), RctvArm-ResDam(36), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 38: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(39), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(39), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Petrifying Gaze -- UbrkCons-Dam%(A), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(42), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(42), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(42), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(43)
Level 44: One Thousand Cuts -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(45), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(46), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Oblit-%Dam(50)
Level 47: Health -- Heal-I(A)
Level 49: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit

Stars, while I greatly respect your analysis and reasoning, I still disagree with some of your conclusions re: Stone. The foremost reason is that I treat Granite as more or less a Hibernate-like power, to be toggled ON/OFF as needed, not an all-or-nothing beast. Therefore, I find looking at Stone in Granite vs. Fire or Stone out of Granite vs Fire (or any other set, really), somewhat misleading.

Let's take for example your Immortality line--I think we can agree that Granite has a far higher threshold for pain and still be "immortal" than all other sets for most occasions (there are a few obvious exceptions re: psi). Out of Granite, that threshold crashes downwards, which is the crux of many arguments on both sides. But if your playstyle was to be out of Granite until you were too hurt, then slip into Granite to recover, then back out, you could maintain immortality at far higher thresholds than normally, and in fact higher than most other tanks could sustain, at the cost of intermittently debuffed offense & mobility. The frequency of your debuffed state would vary greatly on the situation and your build, but on the whole, I find Stone balanced predicated upon this playstyle.

This is even better for for your Alpha measurement since you can always plan to take an Alpha in Granite, then simply toggle out of it once the return fire passes. All in all, I think you need to treat Stone as a whole with Granite, instead of as a binary case w/ or w/o. Of course, if it's your argument that Stone is woefully underpowered pre 32 compared to other sets, I agree. Then again, most tanks are under-armored pre 22 (SO levels) anyway, so really, we're talking about a 10 or so level discrepancy which I, at least, can live with. And these days, those 10 levels can go very fast.

Another option is recharge for full on DB goodness w/o bothering w/combos.

Speaking of which, Werner or others, how much global recharge (so Hasten + set bonuses only, not the actual IOs in each power) do you need for a gapless BF > AS > SS > AS chain? Can it even be done w/o outside buffs? I tried maxing out my recharge w/o gimping and I still have a 0.158 sec gap bet SS & AS.

For practical purposes, it's prolly better to for max S/L def and then HPs.

The examples you posted are among the extreme ones in the game. Very few ppl can tank the STF w/o outside help, and they prolly chew insps even w/a fully IO'ed build (though I can think of a few that could do it w/o). And what blaster thinks they "need" AB or Transference after a nuke? Sure, one would be nice, but most I think can play the game very well w/o them by chewing a blue or two. I think Munki's point is that for everyday play, just normal teaming and stuff, you shouldn't have to rely on a buff to function at an acceptable level. In fact, you shouldn't have to rely on any single power to get your job done--that includes Taunt, Hasten, Stamina (well, maybe Stamina...), whatever, because you should have a variety of options. If your only option as a Stony is to get SB'ed to function, yeah, I'd call that a failure in design & execution. I do not think you are arguing for this point, but your arguments are going in that direction.

I also don't see joining a team as necessarily gaining some dependency on your teammates. Sure, good team play will make things go smoother, but frankly, one of the last remaining challenges in this game (silly custom critters in MA missions aside) is keeping a bad PuG going strong w/your mad skillz. My tanks (Stone or otherwise) don't need anything from my teammates. Missions will go much faster if they add buffs, debuffs, damage, etc, but my 50s can most solo 8-man missions by themselves. Does that make me "dependent" on my teammates? For faster completes (and let's face it, more fun), yes, but not as a matter of necessity.

On the flip side, refusing the even take SB just to spite ppl who cry for it seems a bit extreme too (not saying anyone has taken this stance... maybe some have, I really haven't read the thread in full...). SB's a good buff--if you get it, be thankful, but don't play around the idea of it. If you can give it, try to, but not at the expense of having fun. Somewhere, there's a happy middle ground for us all.

I was gonna give this thread a total pass, and I did for a while, but I just played my Ill/Kin for the first time in a while, steamrolling through a LGTF. We had a Stone tank in the mix and he was very grateful for the SBs when it came his way, but never whined about not having it. He did remind me exactly once when it wore off the first time, but not again since.

My Ill/Kin is nearly def capped, can start (and finish) fights on 8-man teams, can tank w/ or w/o PA, is an AoE monster w/FS'ed Fireballs, etc, etc. And yet, I tried to dole out SB (among other buffs) whenever I could, esp. to the Stone tank. It was a non-stop button mashing fest--there was almost never a time to do nothing the whole TF. And yet, I let SB expire quite a bit--not from intent, I just sometimes had better things to do (like end draining an EB or capping FS on the blaster) at the time, and eventually I got around to it, at least if my teammates were in range. Oh, occasionally, I'd throw a heal out there, but honestly, there wasn't a huge need, and even if there were, it's too much of a bother to figure out who's hurt and target what mob they're standing near that won't be dead in the next 2 seconds anyway.

Bottom line, no one complained, no one really suffered from the lack of SB (or heals), and we wiped the floor w/everything that came into our lines of sight. It's not a playstyle I like all the time--sometimes, I like the more relaxed (read, lazy) approach of a /Rad, but if you're going to play Kin, I figure you may as well be ready for a busy night. If you're not going to take SB though, I can at least empathize, if not sympathize with that stance. And from a receiving end, SB is a treat, not a right, though it's a mighty tasty treat, esp if I'm on my Stone tank.

You can max out Dam & End redux by frankenslotting w/ lvl 50s and still fit in 2 procs. Dam/End x 3 and 1 Acc/Dam/End w/o purples, Dam/End x2 (one purp) and 2 A/D/E if you have the inf. I like mixing up my damage types so I'd slot the Eradication proc for En damage for one of the 2 procs (2nd can be the Armaggedon proc, again, if you can afford it, otherwise go w/Scirocco's Lethal proc since you do smashing damage w/Imps and the like).

Leveling up, you'll need to 5-slot for Dam & End redux (3x D/E, 2x A/D/E) so you'll only have room for 1 proc. And no, procs are not affected by buffs, but debuffs (Son, Rad, etc) always kick in.

I have Fire on my Ill/Kin, Psi on my Fire/Rad and Ice on my Ice/Storm. My thoughts on the three:

Psi - Least offense, by far, but offers mez protection. My Fire/Rad is specifically built to solo anything and everything the game can throw at me so mez protection is a must (even at a silly high def, you will get hit, and you will get mezzed, more on this later, and /Rad has more toggles that drop when mezzed). Otherwise, I'd prolly go Ice for the superior ST damage (more on this later). The 2 damage powers are rather pathetic compared to Fire or Ice, at least from a DPA perspective, but a whole lot better than nothing.

Fire - Best AoE damage. Keeping things in place for Ice Storm is trivial for a controller, but Fire Ball recharges far faster for greater AoE output. For /Kins, this is really sorta ideal and I couldn't pass it up for my own Ill/Kin. Having said that, even at near def cap, he gets mezzed quite a bit. Of course, at near def cap, it's not a big deal getting mezzed, and frankly, I don't need any other colored pills, so I keep a long supply of BFs handy.

Ice - best ST damage. Yes, best, as in better than Fire. Ice Blast has higher DPA than Fire Blast. On test, my Fire/Rad/Ice took down a pylon in 4:10, which if you're familiar w/pylon times is ridiculous. By comparison, Fire/Rad/Psi on live does it in about 5:35 (to be fair, that 4:10 time was by far the best w/avg times closer to 5:00 flat). And Ice Storm does have higher #s that Fire Ball and has greater utility to boot (slows). Hibernate's a great, great oh sh** button, or if you just need an end boost. In fact, w/a Stormy, you can just cast all your powers (FR, Tornado, Lt Storm), hit Hibernate and enjoy the carnage. Hell, I even briefly tanked LR w/all the towers up... until Hibernate ran out.

The armors in all three sets are good placeholders for the +Def Steadfast IO, or a very small amount of +res for Fire & Psi (Fire Shield is prolly the best of the 3 for this). Ice Shield, at least for my high positional def builds, is completely useless except as an IO mule and I never turn it on.

Bottom line, for a Fire/Rad, it really depends on what you're going for. If you're not planning on heavy IOs in your build and want superior survivability, go Psi. If you want lots of AoE damage for farming or whatever, go Fire. If you want a decent compromise of the two, though w/a heavy bias towards offense, go Ice, but the armor is totally skippable unless you're building for S/L def. Just remember, RI & EF shut off when mezzed, and I think when you're in Hibernate too (or they just suppress, can't remember which).

[ QUOTE ]
And in other news, the world isn't flat either.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is only technically true in that the great turtle, A'Tuin's shell is slightly curved. However, rest assured, the disc carried on his back by the elephants is perfectly flat. So your argument is mostly moot.

What? Stone Armor? Fine as it is. Hey, if you want to give me small hopping abilities while in Rooted, far out, but I'm happy w/the set. Yes, custom Granite graphics would be hella sweet.

Two words: Fire. Ball.

Wait, no, three workds: Rage. Fire. Ball.

(Actually, they're all pretty good. I took Arctic on my Stone/Ice--BU+Ice Storm works pretty darn well w/Mud Pots already slowing things down. Energy Torrent is KD, not KB, so just in case you didn't have enough mitigation, there's some more for ya. And I hear Earth is very good too, though I've never played w/it. I happen to really like my ST holds (Char, BoI) for annoying Sappers and the like, though w/Rooted, you can sorta laugh at them.)

Ran out of space so 2nd build here:

And the second:

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Blazing Fist: Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(3), RctvArm-EndRdx(19), S'fstPrt-ResKB(34), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(43)
Level 1: Barrage -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(34), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(45), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 2: Energy Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9)
Level 4: Healing Flames -- Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(7), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(19)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(31)
Level 8: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 10: Blazing Aura -- C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), Sciroc-Dam%(15), Erad-%Dam(15), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(13), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(37)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Whirling Hands -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(17), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(17), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Oblit-%Dam(39)
Level 18: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(50)
Level 20: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(A), Efficacy-EndMod(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23), DefBuff-I(23)
Level 24: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(45), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(45), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 26: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), RctvArm-ResDam(27), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(40)
Level 28: Build Up -- AdjTgt-Rchg(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(29), RechRdx-I(29)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(31), DefBuff-I(31)
Level 32: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(33), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(33), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(33), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(34), Mocking-Rchg(40)
Level 35: Energy Transfer -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Total Focus -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Amaze-Stun(43), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(46)
Level 41: Char -- UbrkCons-Dam%(A), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(42), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(42), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(42), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Melt Armor -- AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(A)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Posi-Dam%(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg(50)
Level 49: Consume -- Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet

Again, 45% S/L def, 28.8% global rech, 33% global acc. Lower ranged & AoE defenses. I'm sorta leaning towards this one.

(Edit: Still no Hasten, which I'll really miss, but sorta necessary to get to S/L def cap.)