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Werner

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  1. Werner
    I'm not sure and it's an interesting question. I agree that what Super Reflexes really needs is resistance (and healing). We don't normally build for resistance, though, because beyond Tough, it's so hard to get so little. What we typically do instead is push hit points, which in a sense are functionally equivalent to resistance.

    It's also difficult to quantify the actual in-game resistance of a Super Reflexes. Sure, there's what Mids' tells you, but that's only your resistance at 60% health or above. Below that, it starts going up quickly. So depending on what you're fighting, you might functionally have much higher resistance than that. While survivability testing with some defensive powers turned off, I probably averaged 40-50% negative resistance, and my smashing/lethal (irrelevant in that particular "fight") would have been higher still. But yeah, kind of pointless to discuss, so I understand why you're just looking at base resistance.
  2. Werner
    Adding Concealment and using the powers as Luck of the Gambler +recharge mules is fine if you're just trying to do a quick and dirty I19 respec. I did a quick and dirty I19 respec on one of my mains, and I'm happy enough with the results to not bother with a complete redesign.

    But if you're actually planning a build around I19, I think "which three powers can I add without needing slots" is just the wrong way to think about it. You're not adding three powers to an existing build. You're creating a new build with 31 (or whatever) powers. Tear it down and start over. Tabula rasa.

    Hmmmm, it's like you have a 1500 square foot house, and you want another 300 square feet of living space. Yeah, you COULD convert the garage, but if you actually designed a new house from the ground up to be an 1800 square foot house, it would be nicer, better integrated, more efficient.
  3. Werner
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by _Elektro_ View Post
    They pretty much make fun of people like 'us'.

    The forum is full of 'min maxers' and don't get enough out of other aspects of the game
    ...

    'We' are definitely in the minority... IMHO.
    Everyone has fun in different ways. Different people enjoy different things. We're not "you" living in different bodies. We're different, often VERY different. I am amazed at the vast number of people who don't get this basic fact about human nature.

    It doesn't bother me at all being in the small minority of players that min/max. But it does strike me as almost willfully ignorant of human nature that people somehow think we're doing it wrong, as if there's a wrong way to play a game. If you're having fun and not ruining everyone else's fun, you're doing it right, whether that's min/maxing, picking powers only because they sound cool, role playing, speed task forcing, pick up groups, farming, marketeering, whatever. I'm having fun.
  4. Werner
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Santorican View Post
    I'm more curious about the hypothetical. So would I still only need 55% defense to all positions with the very rare? What about the uncommon?
    Well, I'm glad you're curious, because I'm curious too, but lazy.

    If to-hit is 64%, the soft cap is 59%, the very rare might provide around 3%, so you'll need around 56%. The uncommon would provide (15%*20%*2/3+20%*1/3)*21.03% = (2%+6.6667%)*21.03% = 1.82% defense. So you'll need around 57%. And you'll probably want another percent or two over that to handle debuffs.
  5. Werner

    Stun Capability

    POST-ACTION

    I'm thinking Martial Arts/Dark Armor. You get three attacks with stuns and you can stack them with Oppressive Gloom. No idea how well it works in practice, though.
  6. Werner
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
    If 60% to all positions is required for the new "softcap" in the new world order, I think my days left playing this game are numbered.
    Won't surprise me at all if some of the incarnate levels give you defense. Won't surprise me at all if the 64% to hit on a few things is simply 64% on a few things, and not a hint of what's to come. I wouldn't worry.

    I think about it, in case it does come to pass, but I don't really worry. There are lots of options. Hitting 59% to all positions will be doable on defense-heavy secondaries. Should be pretty easy on Super Reflexes, and at least possible on Shield Defense. Then Broad Sword and Katana at least make that or higher quite doable for melee and lethal. There were also plenty of solid builds out there before people started, for instance, soft-capping Dark Armor. Additional to hit in the end game won't make us obsolete. If the game gets harder in this or in other ways, we can adapt.

    But I think it's way too soon to be planning out builds for 64% to hit unless you're curious about hypotheticals and just want to know what's possible.
  7. Werner

    Kat/Inv

    POST-ACTION

    As already stated, typed defenses and perma Dull Pain. I would personally use Divine Avalanche to cover lethal defense, and leave myself with a ranged and AoE smashing hole. There isn't a lot of it, and when people do throw boulders at you, you still have high resists and capped hit points, so it shouldn't be too bad. That lets you focus on fire, cold, energy and negative defense. You're probably shooting for 45% to those with several enemies in range. How many is up to you. For maximum survivability, pick up Aid Self as well. Yes, you want resistance, but the set bonuses for resistance aren't very good, so that's pretty much down to taking the right powers. I'd personally try to work in all my passives, and supplement with Tough.
  8. Werner
    My standard Regen boilerplate with quick and dirty I19 update (someone please correct me if I've missed something):
    “There are definitely other approaches, but here's what I'd consider a basic plan for the Regeneration secondary using SOs or common IOs:
    • Fast Healing at 1, 3 heals
    • Reconstruction nice and early, 3 heals, 3 recharges
    • Quick Recovery nice and early, 1 endurance modifier at first, add 1 or 2 more as necessary (Edit: With inherent Stamina, this should now only be when you find you need it.)
    • Dull Pain when or shortly after when available, as there is a lot to squeeze in at that level, 3 heals, 3 recharges
    • Integration at 16, 3 heals, possibly 1 endurance reducer
    • Resilience when and if you can work it in, 1 resist
    • Instant Healing when or shortly after when available, 1-3 recharges, no heals unless you're swimming in slots
    • Skip Revive
    • Moment of Glory when or shortly after when available, 3 recharges
    • Hasten when convenient, 3 recharges
    • Tough when convenient, 3 resists, 1 endurance reducer
    • Slot Health when convenient, 3 heals
    • Slot Stamina with extra endurance modification only if and when you start having endurance trouble, which may not be until 30 or later, only add 1 or 2 more slots as necessary"

    If it were me, I'd also try to get some basic defense, but it will use up even more power and pool choices. Combat Jumping or Hover, but don't worry about slotting for defense. Weave with 3 defense. Maneuvers with 3 defense. The Steadfast Protection unique in Resilience or Tough. With even-level SOs, that will give you 14.3% defense to all. Not great, but not bad."
    For Broad Sword/Regen, your attack chain should be Head Splitter -> Parry -> Disembowel -> Hack -> Parry. That takes some recharge, though, and more than Hasten provides. The cheapest and most effective way to get that recharge is to frankenslot, but at that point, we're talking about set IOs, even if we're talking low budget. So I'm not sure we want to go that far yet. So you'll probably just be punching attacks as they recharge until you work up some influence and are ready to dip your toes in the world of IOs.

    Don't slot Swift heavily like that. Probably don't slot it at all.

    Flavor of the month epic pool for Regen is Soul Mastery for Shadow Meld.

    If you plan to use Whirling Sword, it's worth six slotting.

    Hopefully that'll get you started, though you may want to know a whole lot about WHY I'm making various recommendations, like with your question about Parry. Let me know.
  9. Werner
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Santorican View Post
    Lets say I am going for extreme survivability and I am aiming for 60% defense to all positions. Would I still only need 56% defense bonuses?
    Probably around 57% total before you factor in the very rare. I gather you've concluded that the 64% to hit from tip mission Devouring Earth and task force Battle Maiden represent the coming new world order instead of just specific enemies? 60% gives you soft cap to that plus a little fudge factor for debuffs.
  10. Werner
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Santorican View Post
    How would the Nerve tree help with getting more defense?
    How much defense it adds depends on the build and slotting obviously, but we can make an example. So let's say you're going hard core on defense, so you have all your powers, Weave, Combat Jumping, Hover and Maneuvers. All of them are enhanced up to with the equivalent of three SOs. Let's see, that's 21.03% enhanceable defense. Each power is 60% enhanced before ED, so 56% after ED, and any further enhancement is fully ED-capped, giving only 15% benefit. The very rare gives 20% defense enhancement, 2/3 ignoring ED. So you get 15%*20%/3+2*20%/3 = 1% + 13.3333% = 14.3333% enhancement of 21.03% defense, or 3.0143% defense.

    The maximum I think you could possibly get would be if you weren't hitting the ED cap at all, which is unrealistic. But in that case, you'd be getting a 20% enhancement of 21.03% defense, or 4.206% defense.

    So 3% defense from the very rare, up to 4% if we have unrealistically bad slotting, less from lower levels in the tree, less if we don't take every defensive pool power available. So not very good. But depending on the build and the challenge, every little bit might help.
  11. Werner
    Planning for my Dark Melee/Super Reflexes, I tried to figure out at least passable chains that spammed Siphon Life at around 300% recharge, figuring I'd be taking advantage of the Spiritual alpha. These are what I came up with:
    57.44 DPS: Smite -> Boxing -> Siphon Life (+299%)
    58.76 DPS: Smite -> Shadow Punch -> 0.25 gap -> Siphon Life (+301%)
    62.37 DPS: Midnight Grasp -> 0.25 gap -> Siphon Life (+301%) -> Smite -> Boxing -> Siphon Life (+299%)
    63.04 DPS: Midnight Grasp -> 0.25 gap -> Siphon Life (+301%) -> Smite -> Shadow Punch -> 0.25 gap -> Siphon Life (+301%)
    The Boxing chains do a little less damage and benefit less from further team recharge boosts, but DO save an attack, which could be a concern. The chains with Midnight Grasp obviously do noticeably better, but that's yet another attack and some additional complication. I've always been a fan of attack chain minimalism, so it's a hard decision for me.

    Of course a better answer the vast majority of the time is to just use the top chain and spam Siphon Life situationally, allowing you to do drastically better DPS:
    71.81 DPS: Smite -> Midnight Grasp -> Smite -> Siphon Life
    But I think there's something to be said for continually topping off your hit points. I might do one of these chains eventually just to see what it's like. I suspect I'd miss being able to do damage, though.
  12. Werner

    Assault

    POST-ACTION

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Syntax42 View Post
    Just be aware that there are far better options for increasing your damage.
    Yep. I look at it like "once you've exhausted all other practical options for increasing DPS, consider Assault."
  13. Werner

    Assault

    POST-ACTION

    I have it on several Scrappers. As I recall, the endurance cost is high for the damage done solo, but if you can figure out how to afford it, every bit of damage helps.
  14. Werner
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Santorican View Post
    I need the lowest recharge requirement chain for Dark Melee, does anyone know what it is?
    I'm sure we could figure out a chain with a million attacks that doesn't require any recharge enhancement at all. But I assume you mean something more like "I'm not taking Hasten and won't have recharge bonuses except for what accidentally appears while working on other goals. What's the best chain for me?"

    I think your best DPS option is just the low-recharge version of the classic chain, which only lags behind by about 6.5% DPS:
    Midnight Grasp (128%) -> Smite -> Shadow Punch -> Siphon Life (49%) -> Smite (90%) -> Shadow Punch
    If you happen to want the Dark epic, Dark Blast makes a good substitute for Shadow Punch, delivering pretty much the same DPS but giving you a ranged attack at slightly lower recharge:
    Midnight Grasp (119%) -> Smite -> Dark Blast -> Siphon Life (43%) -> Smite (82%) -> Dark Blast (82%)
    DPS continues dropping off as recharge goes down. If you really can't get much in the way of recharge bonuses at all, I'd consider the following chain, about 13.5% down from the top DPS:
    Smite (82%) -> Midnight Grasp (93%) -> Siphon Life (26%) -> Smite -> Shadow Maul (19%)
  15. Werner
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mauk2 View Post
    ...whuh?

    How is this "compromised?"
    Heh. Well, top end Fire/Shield puts out nearly 300 DPS with sustainable endurance. If I recall, I'm down around 200 (can't keep Against All Odds fodder around since I have AoE in my chain), and at least with I18 my endurance wasn't sustainable. I've added quite a bit more endurance consumption since then, but the cardiac alpha might be enough to offset it and then some, so I really should make another pylon attempt. Survivability is also much lower than it could be due to low regeneration and a lack of heal. So it's no AV soloer, and I think I only get through the RWZ challenge with a combination of luck and doing so much AoE that I can finish it before One with the Shield drops.

    AoE is the least compromised aspect of it, but could still be improved if it wasn't for concept. I haven't tried to work out any specifics since I won't be doing it, but you'd drop Hover for Combat Jumping, get endurance under control without the cardiac alpha, and then go with either musculature for the straight damage boost or spiritual to spam Build Up and all the AoEs even more often.

    I tried to do all that I could given my concept constraints, but a build without those constraints could do much better DPS, have much better survivability, and have a little better AoE.

    I also assume that if I rebuilt it around I19 fitness and the alpha slot instead of just tacking them on at the end, that I could make some noticeable improvements that way as well. I probably won't touch it any further until at least I20, though, as I'm satisfied for now.
  16. Werner
    I get away with Fire Blast and Fire Ball because, y'know, demon. But it should put out decent AoE even without Fire Ball, and it'll certainly be more survivable with the greatly increased regeneration. It's hard to recommend a build like this, because it's a gigantic sum of influence for something so terribly compromised, but I DO so love mine.
  17. Werner
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Werner View Post
    Whoah! RWZ challenge on the first try!

    Mind you, I spent half the fight in the red, and even had to deal with the One with the Shield crash detoggling me, but I made it. Unexpected!

    I think with some practice, it might be possible to finish a spawn before the crash, because there was only a badly-injured boss and a drone left at that point. A little more target switching between bosses to take better advantage of all the AoE, and I could do it. On the other hand, a little more target switching between bosses and I might have been dead before I got a chance to crash.

    The build has been almost complete for a while now. Most of the Hamios are still level 50. That's the only issue at this point, but it means my melee defense is 44.59% instead of 45%, so I'm getting hit almost 10% more often in melee than I should. I need to finish it up and maybe do some RWZ challenge runs specifically for speed. Surely I can get under 2 minutes.

    No video. I certainly wasn't expecting success, and probably got lucky.
    Well, with the I19 build with Assault and a little better tactical planning, my second shot at the RWZ challenge was also a success and came in at 1:40. I'm pretty confident I could get it down to 1:30, as the spawn was more spread out than some are, and I made several mistakes. Alas for my fragile ego (), Iggy Kamakaze is under a minute on his Super Strength/Fire Brute. And I'm sure that several of the more solid AoE Scrappers with the spiritual or musculature alpha could put out more damage than I do. Still, I'm pretty happy. The build is working great for me despite the compromises for concept (poor DPS chain, no heal, Hover instead of Combat Jumping).

    Video
  18. Werner
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards View Post
    Hey Werner, did you ever get an I19 build for this character?
    Sort of. I did a quick respec to take advantage of I19, but didn't reoptimize my slotting and sets. I picked up Hover and Fly to finish up the concept. Hover replaces Combat Jumping. I also added Assault and Tactics, so Tactics gets the Gaussian set. Dropped the Panacea from Health so that I could put two recharges in Build Up. I use the common cardiac alpha to cover my extra endurance needs. I didn't bother with the uncommon since the common is plenty for that purpose, and I don't know what I'll want if I actually reoptimize the build around an alpha slot. Figured it was best to just hold onto the shards until I had a better plan. I'm pretty happy with the results, and I'm playing him more than any of my other characters these days. Anyway, here's the build:

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  19. Werner
    Repeating some of what BrokenPrey said for emphasis.

    Don't take Acrobatics. I personally put three recharge SOs in Active Defense. You don't technically need that, but I found that about half my deaths were because I'd let it lapse because I was busy doing other things and got stupid. An extra slot seemed worth it to me for insurance. Take the Fighting pool. Tough and Weave are what you're after. Hasten from the speed pool is also good, but not critical.
  20. Werner
    So far as I know, Spines is still just fine. Spines/Fire for maximum damage, Spines/Dark for that classic lawnmower, and I'm sure there are other combinations that work good. Spines/Electric would probably be good too. Then you could go with some of the hardier secondaries if you wanted to mow down tougher groups.
  21. Werner
    Curse you Iggy! *shakes fist*

    I was thinking last night and this morning about how I might be able to get under 1:30. Wasn't that cute of me, thinking that would matter?
  22. Werner
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Purus View Post
    Werner...looks an interesting scrapper to make but how do you manage the end on him......im looking for a new project and he could be him
    I barely ever touch Conserve Power in normal play, so it's always there if I have problems. The cardiac alpha does an amazing job. The Performance Shifter and Panacea at least contribute a little. Also, I use some toggles situationally if necessary, such as turning off Tactics if I have 95% to hit without it. In an AV fight, I'd also turn off either Death Shroud (to preserve the minions for Dark Regeneration) or Cloak of Fear (because I've killed the minions). And again, it won't be sustainable until the very rare, and even then only with toggle management, but I'm very used to toggle management on Dark Armor.

    (Edit: Side note. If I were redoing the build today, I might not use the Gladiator's Armor set as knockback protection. It leaves me with only 11 knockback protection instead of 12, which means that pylons sometimes knock me back. I Hover, so I don't lose much time, so the overall effect has been negligible, but it's still an annoyance.)
  23. Werner
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HiddenJackal View Post
    Like I said I've definitely considered sword and board, but I'm kind of cautious as to how it will hold up against future TFs, i.e. Tin Mage and Apex. From what I've heard, a lot of the new content, AVs especially, aren't friendly towards those with defense based powersets, i.e. shield.
    I understand caution. But the point with sword and board is that you can pile on so much melee and lethal defense that the devs are unlikely to bust it. For that matter, if you're willing to sacrifice some other things, you could almost certainly get ranged and AoE to 59%, which I believe is the soft cap for tip mission Devouring Earth and for Battle Maiden. In other words, I think defense-based secondaries are likely to be perfectly viable even if the devs implement a lot of defense-busting measures, partially because the devs won't want to bust defense-based secondaries, only perhaps the people pushing other secondaries (like Dark Armor) up to the soft cap with massive IO investment. Or maybe it's all an incorrect idea in the first place, brought about only through a few specific examples that may not indicate an intentional pattern.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HiddenJackal View Post
    And I'm not going to lie, a flaming sword looks REALLY BADASS with a shield. I'll have to keep in mind an MA/Shield or BS/Shield for future use though. But for now? Looks like plasma sword it is.
    I'm with you. In fact, I love it so much that I made a concept character out of it using only fire sword melee attacks, and I'm currently playing him as much or more than any of my other Scrappers. The DPS sucks, but the AoE is great, which means it'll still power through missions.
  24. Werner
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mauk2 View Post
    The big bad in that arena is BS/sd. Sword and board go together supremely well, and should always be high on your list of options for a weapon scrapper.
    Oh, yeah, sword and board is an excellent choice. I didn't IO mine out, but like with my Katana/Dark, you can hit insane levels of melee and lethal defense if that's what you're after. Plus it'll do a lot better DPS and AoE than mine. Not as survivable (except under heavy defense debuffs), but probably plenty survivable for most purposes. I don't have a build, though.
  25. Werner
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HiddenJackal View Post
    Any suggestions?
    Well, I'm very happy with my Katana/Dark. The 75% melee 74% lethal defense will help a lot with to-hit buffs, but defense debuffs are a big Achilles' heel. On the I17 version of this build, I carved through 11 praetorian AVs in a row, no temps no insps no deaths. I also beat Aeon's Army (AE mission) no temps no insps and maybe a dozen deaths. This I19 build should be even tougher, but no longer has sustainable endurance so isn't really in good shape for AV soloing. The very rare alpha slot should make it sustainable if I've calculated correctly, though.

    Depends on what you're after, though. My DPS is pretty ho-hum at about 180-185, my AoE leaves a lot to be desired, and no taunt aura means that I can get a lot of runners. Also - very expensive. There are much cheaper ways to hit the basic highlights of the build, though.

    I basically don't task force, so I can't really say how well it would survive. My assumption is that it would survive quite well given what else it can survive, but it'll depend on the enemy. Maybe one of the people with a similar build can comment in that regard.

    (Edit: Endurance may LOOK terrible, but I'm using the endurance alpha, so it really isn't. I very rarely hit Conserve Power. The only problem is very long sustained fights like AV soloing with no inspirations.)

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