Two_Dollar_Bill

The trouble (?) with Soldiers is that they can be so varied... One Crab Spider might be a very tank-like melee fighter, and another a cone-based hover-blaster type, while a third Crab might be defined by his horde of pets. Likewise, there are Banes that behave like Stalkers, and Banes that act more like Blasters, and all sorts of combinations in-between. All these setups can be fun and effective, so it really comes down to what play style you enjoy.

I have played my Crab a lot and I've settled into a melee-oriented play style with no pets. My Bane is still in his 40s and I'm still not totally sure what he is... but I agree that Crowd Control is awesome.

Both of my Soldiers are very team-oriented with lots of Leadership pool powers, and both of them solo very well. It would be pretty hard to make a Soldier that can't solo well.

Cloaking Device is great, though it does have some caveats. I was stealthing a mission for my team and I had to run past one of those Longbow guys with Spines, got caught by the untargetted AoE, being attacked caused Cloaking Device to suppress, and I was attacked by the whole bunch of them.

In terms of Patron Powers, you can start your patron arc at 35th as a rogue and it doesn't really take that long to get your pool unlocked. After that, you can change to whatever alignment you favor.

How important soft cap is depends on your play style. If you want a Crab that just hangs back and shoots cone attacks from a distance, you can get your ranged defense capped very easily, AoE with a bit more effort, and ignore melee. Melee builds are a little more complicated but there are "cheap" sets that can cap you out either way.

I would say that if you really like melee combat best, Banes can make a more effective melee attack chain, and Executioner's Strike allows you to take out your intended target with satisfying efficiency. It can take my Crab quite a while to defeat bosses, even with every available Crab melee attack, and Shatter Armor thrown in for good measure.
If you feel like you're not living unless you can solo at x8, and you love blasting everything in the room simultaneously and watching an endless sea of red numbers wash over the scene, Crabs have that covered.

Both power sets matter, but I think that your choice of secondary is the biggest factor in pet survival. Active damage mitigation in the form of debuffs is fine if you are solo and you are controlling every pull. You can debuff your foes before they can put the smack down on your pets, and you will take their initial aggro. But a set like Poison really falls down when you're on a big team, your pets are running around like preschoolers and there are far too many targets to debuff. On teams you want more passive defenses like those in Force Field, Thermal Radiation or Sonic Resonance, and/or solid heals.

Still, having said that, I think that primaries with a recharge intensive pet (like Thungs' Gang War or Necromancy's Soul Extraction) do have a little edge in pet survival because you can slot all the resist and defense IOs.

My own Necromancer is /Dark Miasma. Although Dark Miasma relies on a lot of active mitigation (debuffs and crowd control) your zombies can take a fair amount of punishment as long as you don't mind duking it out in melee by their side, running Shadow Fall and spamming Twilight Grasp as fast as you can.

Yeah, this thread has nothing to do with being impatient. It's the very expensive typo thread.

In my own case, I can tell you exactly how it happened. I had bid 95,000 on some other item of salvage and then I wanted to bid 100 on that Data Drive. But, due to multitasking (watching TV) I actually stuck the 100 onto the end of what was already in the bid field and then hit ENTER, causing me to buy one for 95,000,100!

D.
I have developed a bad habit of stockpiling IOs for alts that I plan to make someday, but even if I cached them all in, I would still be in category D.

Last week I bought a Data Drive for 95,000,100 influence. And I'd like to say that was the first time I've done something like that....

I think a lot of new players with VIP accounts just choose Exalted because of the shiny (VIP) after the name, and this has resulted in a bigger supply of new people than any other server gets. Maybe they're VIPs, but that doesn't mean they know what they're doing.

However, my big disappointment with Exalted had nothing to do with the new people. I created a VEAT over there, and redside was so extremely dead that I transferred him back to Justice where he could get teams.

In general, I prefer to slot for the basics (accuracy, damage, recharge) instead of procs. I will use damage procs like the one in Positron's Blast when the power is so well enhanced that ED will simply eat any further enhancement bonuses.

I am not too concerned about toxic/psi resist and will probably 5-slot the set as well.
Based on the Wiki description, all five of the non-proc IOs in Dominion of Arachnos enhance damage. I suspect that much of this damage enhancement will be lost to diminishing returns, so I may just drop the Damage/Recharge IO and keep the proc.
I would slot it in Suppression.

I will agree with everyone who says Traps is great when soloing. It's not nearly as good on teams because your team generally won't stop and wait for you to set up.

Between Time and Pain, I guess it depends on your play style preference. I have a few Empathy characters and don't mind keeping a close eye on team and pet health, ready to intervene in case of danger. I will say that of all the Thugs combos I have tried, Pain has the best chance of keeping the Arsonist alive in spite of his best efforts to get killed.

Bane Spiders can be quite durable and have excellent melee capabilities. I think that taking only ranged attacks is needlessly limiting and makes the character far weaker in the long run. Poisonous Ray is one of your best ranged mace attacks and it has a rather short range, and there are lots of mission maps in which hovering offers no protection from melee combat. Being able to punish melee attackers with Shatter seems like a far better plan.

I hate redraw myself and I am not a big fan of Venom Grenade. Regardless of how much damage it does, my attack chain is more fun without it. I currently do have Venom Grenade, but it's not part of my regular attack chain. It's there for special occasions.

I've never played a Stalker so I can's say how their Hidden reset differs from a Bane Spider's. I will say that the Bane Spider stealth works fine when solo. I don't mind pausing for a few seconds to line up the perfect alpha strike.

I do enjoy the massive single-target damage of the Executioner's Strike. It's definitely a valuable skill that I want my Bane Spider to have. But how exactly to use it and how heavily to invest in it? I'm still working that out.

Once I've done my big Shatter attack and my cover is blown, I still have a few seconds of Build Up. Placate is on a long timer so I can't make every sneak attack a double. When I started out, I would follow up Shatter with Pulverize and Bash, but a point-blank Poisonous Ray while Build Up lasts isn't too shabby either. It seems perfectly workable to segue from melee to ranged combat immediately after the Executioner's Strike without losing any performance, so I could probably replace Bash and Pulverize with ranged mace attacks that would be more useful for cleanup duties.

Yes, wouldn't want to forget Build Up!

Well, after pondering the example builds that have been posted and considering all the advice, I have a wish list of powers that simply will not fit on a single character. He just can't be the ultimate ninja assassin / mez-resistant blaster / team-support buffer and do all jobs well. So, I did perform my mandatory respec and took all available Executioner's Strike powers as well as Poisonous Ray and Venom Grenade, but nothing as-yet from the Medicine, Leadership or Fighting pools.

There are things about Executioner's Strike that are only just becoming clear now that I'm playing with it. I was on a large team last night and we were smashing our way through spawns so fast that I usually didn't have enough pause between fights for Hidden status to resume. The only way I could perform an Executioner's Strike would be if I intentionally stood around and didn't participate in mopping up each spawn.

My original main character and first 50 was Two Dollar Bill, Illusion/Empathy Controller. Best support character ever. After The Great Nerfing (Issue 5) he was never quite the same and my Warshade soon became my main character.
The Warshade was never nerfed into obscurity but another alt, my Crab Spider, eventually rose up to usurp his position.
Both my Controller and Warshade are semi-active on Justice, mostly in iTrials.

Person34,
So, you feel that I should add Combat Training: Defensive, Wolf Spider Armor, Tough and Weave to make him as indestructable as possible, and then take Venom Grenade and Bile Spray so I can do devastating ranged AoE attacks? While I'm sure this could be fun to play, I already have that character... he's my Crab Spider. I'm hoping to do something a bit different with my Bane Spider.

I agree that Bane Spiders lean towards a built-in Stalker-like playstyle, mixed in with a bunch of contradictory (even mutually exclusive) capabilities that pull them in other directions. I would like to do what they do best while still retaining the characteristic flexibility of a VEAT.

I didn't notice that Bane Spider Armor Upgrade had wimpy status resistance. I will have another look at it in Mids'. The reason I dropped Combat Training: Defensive is because there were too many good powers I wanted to squeeze in to this build. Any time a few set bonuses can replace a whole power, I am willing to consider it.

Jibikao
Why two sets of Tactics? Well, I want to play to the strengths of the archetype and do what they are good at. Thus my interest in using Cloaking Device, Placate and melee attacks to inflict gruesome critical hits. I play on teams more than I solo, and Soldiers of Arachnos have great numbers for all the Leadership powers, as good as Defenders in some cases. With so much bang for your buck, why not give the team a really good buff? Admitedly, I am already pondering dropping Tactics and Vengeance to squeeze in another power or two.

I know Venom Grenade is great, and I suppose it could even be argued that I have a mandate to take it for the sake of the team... you should eat your green beans because somewhere there are kids who can't get green beans (and powersets that can't debuff). I've been on teams that failed task forces because nobody could sufficiently debuff the AV at the end. Though, I don't really see how it fits in to the low-aggro stealth-for-protection melee-attack lifestyle.

Although I have never actually made an assasin's strike, I guess the theory behind using Shatter Armor is this?
- Hide
- Shatter (critical hit)
- Shatter Armor
- Placate
- Shatter (critical hit)
- Finish them off with normal attack chain


I will have to go home and get Mids' to compare builds.

New posts appeared while I was composing my reply, so this is incomplete, but my lunch break is over. More later.

This character is still 23rd level and so has yet to take his first official step as a Bane Spider, though I have read what guides are available and tinkered with every Bane build I have been able to find.

Blasters with mez protection are awesome. I've got one. He's an Assault Rifle / Sonic Resonance Corruptor. That may be one reason why I have no urgent desire to revisit that style of play. I'm not saying that Huntsman builds are not fun, just not what I'm looking for.

Bane Spiders are not required to be melee characters any more than Crab Spiders are required to be AoE attack characters. However, their area of special competence, where they have built-in advantages, is stealthy melee attacks. Since this is my first attempt at playing a Bane Spider, I am going to begin with this default style of play.

I agree that Banes are not squishy when compared to all archtypes in general. But in the context of the discussion... comparing them to Crab Spiders while talking to Granite Agent (the guy who takes perma-Serum and then complains that he doesn't have a self-heal), I must stand by my earlier statement. In that context, Banes are squishy.

This thread is not my guide to "all a Bane can be", it's just the specific Bane Spider I am working on at the moment. Hopefully, a fun and effective character.

Bane Spiders are squishy but sneaky. They eliminate one target with surgical precision and don't hang around and get surrounded.
I actually prefer the Crab Spider style of play... stomping around attacking everything in sight and daring them to surround and kill you.
Still, variety can be fun. I've never had any desire to play a Stalker but I will play a team-friendly sneak attacker who has useful ranged attacks.

Maybe a skilled assassin-type would not need Aid Self, but as a Wolf Spider with Heavy Burst, I need it. Time will tell I guess.

Venom Grenade doesn't really fit with the low-aggro melee assassin style of play, so I never seriously considered it, as damaging as it may be.

I did consider Shatter Armor. I have it on my Crab and like it. But I decided to go with Leadership for the time being. Maybe once I have a better grasp of how the Bane Spider plays I will drop Tactics and Vengeance in favor of Mace Beam and Shatter Armor.

Ever since my Crab Spider became my main character, I have spent a fair amount of time hanging around the Soldiers of Arachnos forum and inflicting my opinions on people. However, my lack of experience with the Bane Spider path has prevented me from saying much about it. No longer! I have started a Bane Spider and thought I would post a spec for discussion:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...01#post4060801

This is a fairly conventional Bane Spider spec, I think. Melee oriented, lots of toxic damage, and the ability to sneak attack in a Stalker-like manner. All positional defenses are soft-capped until Cloaking Device suppresses, then they are a bit shy. I'm not really sure how important soft caps are for this style of play. It might be better to ignore AoE in order to make sure Melee stays capped.
None of my characters are really designed to solo, so I took all SEVEN Leadership powers (late in his career where he will have an Alpha Slot power to help pay for all the toggles).
This character is 23rd right now but his early career as a Wolf Spider made me REALLY wish for a self heal. So, I have given him the most ridiculously powerful Aid Self I could manage, at the earliest possible level so he keeps it when exemplared. I may reduce this a bit when I see how it really works in practice.
No, I don't use Hasten on most builds, and I do keep Super Jump toggled on at all times.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.951
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Bane Spider A: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Soldier
Primary Power Set: Bane Spider Soldier
Secondary Power Set: Bane Spider Training
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Leadership

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Bash -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(3), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(3), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), T'Death-Dam%(34)
Level 1: Bane Spider Armor Upgrade -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(5), S'fstPrt-ResKB(5)
Level 2: Mace Beam -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(7), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 4: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(9), Zephyr-ResKB(9), EndRdx-I(37)
Level 6: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 8: Aid Other -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(A)
Level 10: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), LkGmblr-Rchg+(13)
Level 12: Poisonous Ray -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(15), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 14: Aid Self -- Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(A), Mrcl-EndRdx/Rchg(17), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(17), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mrcl-Heal(39), IntRdx-I(39)
Level 16: Pulverize -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(19), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(19), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), T'Death-Dam%(40)
Level 18: Shatter -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(21), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(21), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), T'Death-Dam%(43)
Level 20: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 24: Cloaking Device -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), LkGmblr-Rchg+(25)
Level 26: Placate -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 28: Surveillance -- ShldBrk-DefDeb(A), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(29), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(29), ShldBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(43), ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(45), ShldBrk-%Dam(45)
Level 30: Tactical Training: Leadership -- EndRdx-I(A), ToHit-I(31)
Level 32: Crowd Control -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(33), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(33), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), Sciroc-Dam%(46)
Level 35: Web Cocoon -- Lock-Acc/Hold(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg(36), Lock-Rchg/Hold(36), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(36), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(46), Lock-%Hold(50)
Level 38: Recall Friend -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(42)
Level 44: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(45)
Level 47: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(48), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(48), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(48), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(50), GSFC-Build%(50)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(11)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(23), EndMod-I(23)
------------

In my own quaint old-fashioned way of playing, the idea of making an attack chain out of one filler attack and spamming it endlessly seems bizarre and rather boring. I prefer to attack with the best, most powerful attack I have available, and fill gaps with a fast single-target attack.

Crabs are experts at clearing out vast hordes of foes with AoE attacks. Difficulty settings less than x8 is a waste of our talents. When the AoE has scoured the area clear of minions and lieutenants, all that's left standing are a few half-dead bosses. At this point I shift my attack rotation to favor more single target attacks instead of Suppression, but I never feel the need for a special single-target mop-up chain.

I don't use Achilles' Heel procs. I have Venom Grenade and Shatter Armor that deliver a resistance debuff every time they hit instead of every fifth time. If it was going to be useful though, it would be on a rapid attack like Single Shot or Channelgun that you plan to fire over and over again in hopes your 20% chance will come up. In general, I think that enhancement slots are better spent on the basics... accuracy, damage, recharge.

You do have the uniques in your build. I just got rambling about Endurance and lost track of the actual build I was discussing.

There are certainly many different ways to handle your defenses and still hit the positional soft-caps. If you never plan to exemplar, then including Agility to reach your caps is certainly valid. If School of Sharks is a very good immobilize, maybe you don't really require soft-capped melee defense. You can just pop a purple inspiration when you find yourself in melee with something. With creative use of IO set bonuses you could drop Weave and its prerequisites from your build and still hit your positional soft caps.
My own build gets a lot of defense from set bonuses and lacks staples like Combat Jumping, so there is no right way to do it.

Defense-wise, you use whatever defense is best out of all your applicable defenses. So if some thug shoots you with a pistol (Lethal, Ranged), you use either your Ranged or Lethal defense, whichever is best. Because of this, many Crab Spiders soft-cap the three positional defenses and ignore the rest.

If your defenses are over soft cap, you can keep the excess to protect yourself from debuffs, or get rid of it. In your case you could lose CT: Defensive or take a couple slots away from Expedient Reinforcement to use for something else.
Most people do use Combat Training: Defensive because with very minimal slotting (the Defense IO and Global Recharge IO from LotG) you get over 10% ranged defense as well as the 7.5% recharge.

Some time ago there was a forum thread that studied just what the best bang for your buck was for Stamina with IOS. The thread concluded that it was this:
1) Regular End Mod IO
2) Performance Shifter End Mod
3) Performance Shifter Chance for +End
On any character that does not have a highly efficient endurance recovery power, I follow this advice. I also slot Health with the Miracle +Recovery unique and the Numina's Convalescence +Regen/+Recovery unique. Anyone who's prepared to pay billions for a PVP 3% Defense IO should definitely pick these up for what amounts to spare pocket change.

Your dream build is very different than mine, but I will see what tips I can offer. First of all, even a bad Mids build would give us something concrete to work from, so feel free to post whatever you've got so-far.

One of the keys to Crab building is how you bridge the gap between your basic defensive powers (Maneuvers x2, Combat Jumping) and soft cap. It requires IO set bonuses, but which ones? Melee is especially tricky. I think it's best to take some melee attacks and slot them with Obliteration and Touch of Death. Some people use Shield Breaker in their ranged attacks, or even six-slot Enfeebled Operation in Wide Area Web Grenade and a Patron immobilize power.

The IO sets that give you the best positional defense bonuses don't always give you the +Recharge that you might want for perma-pets. Purple sets have great recharge, but not defense bonuses. Taking Weave can make you less reliant on set bonuses for your soft caps, giving you more freedom to use purples, but you've got to find room for it.

Combat Training: Offensive gives you a 10% accuracy bonus, but by the time you factor in your IO sets, you'll probably be coated in 9% Accuracy bonuses and have a 95% chance to hit everything you meet, even without this power.

The reason Omega Maneuver is seldom mentioned is that it's extremely fussy and hard to get your money's worth out of. The bomb's taunt is weak and your pets and teammates can easily ruin it by stealing the aggro from the bomb. On a team of 50's that are rolling along at a good clip, there may not even be anything left alive in range by the time the bomb actually goes off. If you solo a lot and don't mind slotting it for a bit more range to keep its aggro radius clear, it can be amazing. On teams, it's very skippable.

I can't offer much advice on Single Shot or even on AoE chains, since my Crab fires off Suppression and Venom Grenade, then closes to melee range and slashes things to death.

All my characters that are high enough level to have IOs walk around with greater +Recharge than the 6-slotted perma-Hasten of the old days. Only a rare few actually have Hasten. It just isn't needed and there are better things I could be doing with that power pool slot.

My Illusion/Empathy Controller is a rare character of mine that does have Hasten because A) Ill/Emp doesn't have enough attacks to make a chain, and B) to keep Phantom Army almost-permanent.

When I was leveling up my Crab I embraced the Crab attacks and never looked back. Why would I want to shoot people with a miniature toy gun when I could blast or slash them with deadly mechanical spider arms? Not much point in making a Crab if you don't like the backpack....

Once I got higher level the whole question of having two ranged filler attacks became moot. Even when I was doing ranged-only builds, Frag Grenade, Venom Grenade and Suppression recharged fast enough that Channelgun was the only filler I needed. Trying to fit Longfang in there somewhere just slows down the serious attacks.

My Warshade's costumes are designed to look somewhat sinister, since he's killed countless innocents in his quest for eternal life... and it's debatable just how reformed he really is.
In addition, his costumes are high-contrast black and white. I've never found any colors that really compliment the swirling purple, so I let his powers provide all the color.

However, I think the ultimate fashion accessory for the well-dressed Warshade is Penumbral Shield (the fire/cold/toxic resist toggle). It has a better tendril aura than you can get from costume options and it gives you the "white pin-point with tendrils" eyes that Shadowstar has.

Little ones I burn as fast as I get them, just to clear space for something bigger and better to drop. I tend not to use the big ones at all unless I encounter something especially tough, then I burn them like mad.
If no emergencies come up, I may discover that my collection of large inspirations is too big and impressive. Then I start converting them to Phenomenal Luck and selling them to make room for more things to drop.