Critique my Bane Spider build!

This is a fairly conventional Bane Spider spec, I think. Melee oriented, lots of toxic damage, and the ability to sneak attack in a Stalker-like manner. All positional defenses are soft-capped until Cloaking Device suppresses, then they are a bit shy. I'm not really sure how important soft caps are for this style of play. It might be better to ignore AoE in order to make sure Melee stays capped.
None of my characters are really designed to solo, so I took all SEVEN Leadership powers (late in his career where he will have an Alpha Slot power to help pay for all the toggles).
This character is 23rd right now but his early career as a Wolf Spider made me REALLY wish for a self heal. So, I have given him the most ridiculously powerful Aid Self I could manage, at the earliest possible level so he keeps it when exemplared. I may reduce this a bit when I see how it really works in practice.
No, I don't use Hasten on most builds, and I do keep Super Jump toggled on at all times.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.951
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Bane Spider A: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Soldier
Primary Power Set: Bane Spider Soldier
Secondary Power Set: Bane Spider Training
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Leadership

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Bash -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(3), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(3), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), T'Death-Dam%(34)
Level 1: Bane Spider Armor Upgrade -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(5), S'fstPrt-ResKB(5)
Level 2: Mace Beam -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(7), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 4: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(9), Zephyr-ResKB(9), EndRdx-I(37)
Level 6: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 8: Aid Other -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(A)
Level 10: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), LkGmblr-Rchg+(13)
Level 12: Poisonous Ray -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(15), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 14: Aid Self -- Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(A), Mrcl-EndRdx/Rchg(17), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(17), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mrcl-Heal(39), IntRdx-I(39)
Level 16: Pulverize -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(19), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(19), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), T'Death-Dam%(40)
Level 18: Shatter -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(21), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(21), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), T'Death-Dam%(43)
Level 20: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 24: Cloaking Device -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), LkGmblr-Rchg+(25)
Level 26: Placate -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 28: Surveillance -- ShldBrk-DefDeb(A), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(29), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(29), ShldBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(43), ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(45), ShldBrk-%Dam(45)
Level 30: Tactical Training: Leadership -- EndRdx-I(A), ToHit-I(31)
Level 32: Crowd Control -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(33), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(33), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), Sciroc-Dam%(46)
Level 35: Web Cocoon -- Lock-Acc/Hold(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg(36), Lock-Rchg/Hold(36), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(36), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(46), Lock-%Hold(50)
Level 38: Recall Friend -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(42)
Level 44: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(45)
Level 47: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(48), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(48), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(48), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(50), GSFC-Build%(50)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(11)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(23), EndMod-I(23)
------------

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I really can't wrap my head around a Bane because they seem too squishy (see your Aid Self comments) for what they do which seems primarily to be single-target damage (CC is a lone exception).

That said, there is something to consider in the Venom Nade + Poisonous Ray combo .... Venom debuffs toxic resist -40% and then Poisonous Ray hits like a truck. If you can stomach the redraw and animation.

Also I have seen some good Bane builds here that work in the mace PPP for Shatter Armor -- which hits like a truck on top of Shatter out of hide etc. If you're going ST end-game, that seems like a good plan.

Bane Spiders are squishy but sneaky. They eliminate one target with surgical precision and don't hang around and get surrounded.
I actually prefer the Crab Spider style of play... stomping around attacking everything in sight and daring them to surround and kill you.
Still, variety can be fun. I've never had any desire to play a Stalker but I will play a team-friendly sneak attacker who has useful ranged attacks.

Maybe a skilled assassin-type would not need Aid Self, but as a Wolf Spider with Heavy Burst, I need it. Time will tell I guess.

Venom Grenade doesn't really fit with the low-aggro melee assassin style of play, so I never seriously considered it, as damaging as it may be.

I did consider Shatter Armor. I have it on my Crab and like it. But I decided to go with Leadership for the time being. Maybe once I have a better grasp of how the Bane Spider plays I will drop Tactics and Vengeance in favor of Mace Beam and Shatter Armor.

I can't check the build in Mids to glance at the set bonuses at the moment, but as usual, I'd like to point out that Bane I keep pointing out, which is neither squishy nor single-target.

Seriously need to debunk a few things:

* Banes are not Stalkers. They don't do as much damage per attack (by a long shot), but they DO have ranged and AoE attacks. They're more like Blasters with mez protection. Think for a second how awesome it would be if you had a Blaster with mez proteciton.

* Banes have more attacks than just the mace. Yes, the rifle causes redraw, but it's got some GREAT powers in it. Skipping those on merit of "it's not Bane" is like... skipping Spine Burst, Impale and Throw Spines just because they're not melee powers like the rest of the Spines set.

* Banes are not, in the typical sense, squishy. As mentioned above, all Soldiers have mez protection, which goes a long way like you wouldn't believe. They get ~30% Defense to Ranged without set bonuses, which means they can shoot at stuff without worrying about the alpha retaliation killing them. For Banes specifically, they get additional Defense from Cloaking Device, have considerable stealth, and can Placate in the event of a pesky boss.

* Banes are not melee. The bulk of the mace damage is, but there's quite a selection of gun attacks too. There's a "Huntsman" approach that's somewhat popular, which focuses on the Wolf powers with a stray Bane power tossed in, but think about doing that the other way around. Your Bane will be melee if you only pick the melee powers, sure, but that requires you to ignore a lot of your available selections.

I use a slight variation on this guy http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...2&postcount=11. The only difference is I switched Placate for the Disruptor Blast.

The Cardiac Alpha is a must.

I'd personally drop all of the +ranged def set bonuses and pick up CT Defensive, as it by itself (oneslotted) makes up the difference. I'd also drop the leadership tree for the fighting tree and grab boxing/tough/weave ---> this will make your bane considerably stronger.

As pointed out earlier, if you are going to take poisonous ray you should also consider venom grenade as this is a combo that will be the start of your seeing 500+ damage PR attacks. Plus it is always handy to have a tool that debuffs the entire group's resistance by 20%.

Also, maybe take wolf spider armor for the additional +2 status prot.

Shatter armor is nice to have, but I think VG + bile spray goes a lot farther. Hit BU first and you can watch all the minions melt into puddles.

IMO bane spiders have style but lack identity. They are a debuffing, pet using stealth melee class (sort of an oxymoron) whos role seems to have been predefined by the devs: you will sneak in, get in a decent crit with shatter and then debuff/placate/repeat. Compared to a lot of melee types they lack the tools to be "indestructable" even when IOed to the gills: they have shaky status protection, zero DDR, slow animating attacks and are designed to fight from range while being melee-heavy.

I think this toon can be highly successful but the approach needs to the revisited. Unless you are always going to use it to group with, which it should be fine.

Just curious, why are you taking another Tactic? You already took the one from secondary. Isn't that enough?

And I will not skip Venom Grenade even if it causes weapon redraw. Venom Grenade is almost must-have for any Soldier-related build. The debuff is nice but the radius is even nicer.

I took Shatter Armor because I want my Bane to hit HARD.

If there's anything that I wish they could have done, I wish they could add some critical damage in Shatter Armor but I know it's not going to happen because other paths can take Shatter Armor as well.

New posts appeared while I was composing my reply, so this is incomplete, but my lunch break is over. More later.

This character is still 23rd level and so has yet to take his first official step as a Bane Spider, though I have read what guides are available and tinkered with every Bane build I have been able to find.

Blasters with mez protection are awesome. I've got one. He's an Assault Rifle / Sonic Resonance Corruptor. That may be one reason why I have no urgent desire to revisit that style of play. I'm not saying that Huntsman builds are not fun, just not what I'm looking for.

Bane Spiders are not required to be melee characters any more than Crab Spiders are required to be AoE attack characters. However, their area of special competence, where they have built-in advantages, is stealthy melee attacks. Since this is my first attempt at playing a Bane Spider, I am going to begin with this default style of play.

I agree that Banes are not squishy when compared to all archtypes in general. But in the context of the discussion... comparing them to Crab Spiders while talking to Granite Agent (the guy who takes perma-Serum and then complains that he doesn't have a self-heal), I must stand by my earlier statement. In that context, Banes are squishy.

This thread is not my guide to "all a Bane can be", it's just the specific Bane Spider I am working on at the moment. Hopefully, a fun and effective character.

Here's the "end game" bane I was planning about a year ago (updated by leaving room in shatter armor for the dominion of arachnos superior set, and the numbers following this will reflect that set's bonuses).

With accolades it's 1800 hit points, 3.86/end sec recovery, 40% S/L resists and should be just shy of permahasten when complete. 19.5% damage bonus, softcapped to all positionals and almost softcapped to psi (43.2%) My night widow pulled me away from ever finnishing the build, but gives you an idea of what a bane can develope into. Pretty expensive, but completely doable.

I tweaked it a while back to push 1830 hps, but lost some recharge and settled on what I have here.


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Person34,
So, you feel that I should add Combat Training: Defensive, Wolf Spider Armor, Tough and Weave to make him as indestructable as possible, and then take Venom Grenade and Bile Spray so I can do devastating ranged AoE attacks? While I'm sure this could be fun to play, I already have that character... he's my Crab Spider. I'm hoping to do something a bit different with my Bane Spider.

I agree that Bane Spiders lean towards a built-in Stalker-like playstyle, mixed in with a bunch of contradictory (even mutually exclusive) capabilities that pull them in other directions. I would like to do what they do best while still retaining the characteristic flexibility of a VEAT.

I didn't notice that Bane Spider Armor Upgrade had wimpy status resistance. I will have another look at it in Mids'. The reason I dropped Combat Training: Defensive is because there were too many good powers I wanted to squeeze in to this build. Any time a few set bonuses can replace a whole power, I am willing to consider it.

Jibikao
Why two sets of Tactics? Well, I want to play to the strengths of the archetype and do what they are good at. Thus my interest in using Cloaking Device, Placate and melee attacks to inflict gruesome critical hits. I play on teams more than I solo, and Soldiers of Arachnos have great numbers for all the Leadership powers, as good as Defenders in some cases. With so much bang for your buck, why not give the team a really good buff? Admitedly, I am already pondering dropping Tactics and Vengeance to squeeze in another power or two.

I know Venom Grenade is great, and I suppose it could even be argued that I have a mandate to take it for the sake of the team... you should eat your green beans because somewhere there are kids who can't get green beans (and powersets that can't debuff). I've been on teams that failed task forces because nobody could sufficiently debuff the AV at the end. Though, I don't really see how it fits in to the low-aggro stealth-for-protection melee-attack lifestyle.

Although I have never actually made an assasin's strike, I guess the theory behind using Shatter Armor is this?
- Hide
- Shatter (critical hit)
- Shatter Armor
- Placate
- Shatter (critical hit)
- Finish them off with normal attack chain


I will have to go home and get Mids' to compare builds.

I personally prefer my Bane to be almost exclusively melee and not have to redraw (the Mace Patron doesn't cause redraw).

Thanks to dual builds, it's even less of an issue as if I want to pewpewpew and spit on people, I can just switch to my "soldier" build who has rifle powers and Leviathan Patron

Here's the datalink to the Bane build (softcapped to all positional and psi, no purples):

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...20D3BFE8AAFF46

Yes, wouldn't want to forget Build Up!

Well, after pondering the example builds that have been posted and considering all the advice, I have a wish list of powers that simply will not fit on a single character. He just can't be the ultimate ninja assassin / mez-resistant blaster / team-support buffer and do all jobs well. So, I did perform my mandatory respec and took all available Executioner's Strike powers as well as Poisonous Ray and Venom Grenade, but nothing as-yet from the Medicine, Leadership or Fighting pools.

There are things about Executioner's Strike that are only just becoming clear now that I'm playing with it. I was on a large team last night and we were smashing our way through spawns so fast that I usually didn't have enough pause between fights for Hidden status to resume. The only way I could perform an Executioner's Strike would be if I intentionally stood around and didn't participate in mopping up each spawn.

I've never played a Stalker so I can's say how their Hidden reset differs from a Bane Spider's. I will say that the Bane Spider stealth works fine when solo. I don't mind pausing for a few seconds to line up the perfect alpha strike.

I do enjoy the massive single-target damage of the Executioner's Strike. It's definitely a valuable skill that I want my Bane Spider to have. But how exactly to use it and how heavily to invest in it? I'm still working that out.

Once I've done my big Shatter attack and my cover is blown, I still have a few seconds of Build Up. Placate is on a long timer so I can't make every sneak attack a double. When I started out, I would follow up Shatter with Pulverize and Bash, but a point-blank Poisonous Ray while Build Up lasts isn't too shabby either. It seems perfectly workable to segue from melee to ranged combat immediately after the Executioner's Strike without losing any performance, so I could probably replace Bash and Pulverize with ranged mace attacks that would be more useful for cleanup duties.