ThatGuyThere

This.

I know I said it before. I'm saying it again because I want to stress what the "You just don't want stuff content-locked" people aren't countering - because, I feel, they can't.

It isn't Incarnate stuff* that's currently "locked" behind the Incarnate system. It's just regular "stuff", like you'd get in a booster.

Unless you're suggesting that only Incarnates can Catch Breath / Collapse, and Swoon, or have a swords-crossed emblem.

Make it all Incarnate-Type-Stuff, and my objection goes away. I mean, you won't have brought me all the way around to "I like it", but you'll have brought me to "Sure, whatever, that's an Incarnate thing".

* - Awesome McIncarnate Armor excluded, and some of the the chest emblem things.

Previously, an IO'd out 50 - Frankenslotted - was "upper echelons", with the ability to stretch my "faves" into having an "IO Build". Note that I wasn't there, either, but I could see there from where I was standing, and it looked like I could get there.

Now, the "upper echelon" is "unlocked all Incarnates slots, and slotted good options for them (that don't have to be the rare, but that'd be nice)". Getting to this level adds a considerable amount of time on top of what it takes to get a well-built, IO'd 50 - and requires a specific playstyle (Trials).

I don't actually begrudge those who do have the time to pursue it. F'instance, before, I understood that there'd be a gap between what I was trying to build and a "actually IO'd out" toon, and a "purple'd out" toon, and I considered that gap pretty reasonable - people with more time / dedication / energy than me can manage even better results; that's fair enough.

I just think another route there would ... well, would be a massive improvement.

It's interesting, Doc - I see both what you're saying, and what Dispari is saying, in the Dev's statement. So Dispari isn't the only one who sees what they put in their post. But you raise a point about what the Devs say, as well.

Damnit. That was exactly what I've been trying to say, yeah.

Fair enough. I have run TFs, and they were fun; I'm not unwilling to run them (again). I just don't have the hours in the day.

And I suspect that I'm not the only one.

Not directing this at you, personally, Geko, but there are many who are able to trial, trial, TF, trial, and don't understand that others don't have that kind of time - even if they'd like to.

And the most recent set of offerings seems directed more at those with "more time to play" than the previous several years' worth did.

This. But also, not this.

It's still the fact that if I run a Trial, at (let's say) 45 minutes from "Hey, I should do a Trial" to "Woot, my Reward Table result!", that's between half and all my playtime of one evening, and 1/3rd to 1/8th of my playtime for the week. That's a pretty significant portion of my gameplay.

And, as noted, large-sized team playing isn't a "big thing" for me, for any of my toons, before level 50.

And, I hadn't mentioned it before, but because of my situation, I also have to be able to take occasional 5-7 minute gameplay breaks mid-session. I might not have to at all, on any given night; but I absolutely have to have the ability to do so. I've 'lost' Friends-list people over this before - which I actually completely understand.

That said, "30-40 minutes" is substantially different from the "about an hour" I'd been hearing, and different enough to make a "weekly" Trial roughly do-able, ish; and I appreciate that. I might try one sometime, then.

All of that said, I stand by the thrust of my post - there are people for whom the "moving goalposts" is a factor, and the fact that only one style of gameplay - which is essentially not even possible before level 50 - can be used to advance "beyond" that level.

I realize I'm pretty intensely saying, "TFs and Trials aren't possible for me", and I suspect it'll be pointed out - and I agree - I'm pretty much a minute minority. But it's noteworthy that until the introduction of Incarnate content, there was very, very little I was absolutely excluded from (essentially, the TFs themselves) because of those restrictions - it was just that some things might (would) take much more time.

Edit to add -
It would be interesting for some of the Strike Targets to not be "team play required", like Oroboros arcs, for instance. I think that'd be fantastic.

But your suggestion that the WST provides an alternative to me, when my post is about how I find it difficult to run Task Forces seems ... well, it doesn't actually sync up well with the well-reasoned observations made in the rest of your post.

I'm only speaking for myself, here.

I don't play much; maybe 6-8 hours a week, broken into 3-4 play sessions. I have only ever done two to three Task Forces, back when I had more time to play. I mostly run Tip Missions, because that way I can "save up" my play time (by earning Hero Merits) to get "good stuff". I run solo, or team with my spouse (who plays even less than I do), or with a very short list of friends.

Before the Incarnate system, I was excited at the prospect of getting to Level 50 on either of my "mains". I could then fine-tune them with the Invention system, particularly with Hero Merits, and get them to the very upper levels of performance. Even with my quite-limited time investment, I could "max out" a character. And as others have mentioned, CoX is actually pretty good, in general, at making sure you do feel that you're getting better-and-better - you can take on larger spawns of higher difficulty; there was an "awesome level" that I could attain, even playing on a purely casual basis.

Now, there's a level of power I'll simply never obtain.

It is my feeling - and I understand some will debate the "truthiness" of it, but it's definitely my feeling - that my play-time doesn't suit itself to Incarnate Trials. And I now feel as if the "upper echelons" of gameplay - which I was once able to look forward to reaching, on a "wow, imagine that I can get there someday" - are now out of reach. And it's dramatically altered my interest in playing characters over level 40.

I still make new alts, and I still enjoy the game. And yeah, I still run Tips on my 40+ characters, sometimes. But on the whole, the entire game is less engaging, specifically because there's a whole scale of power I know I'm never going to reach.

A solo option that I could work on at my own pace - even glacier-slowly - would keep me working towards Incarnate power. But currently, they're essentially unachievable to me.

tl;dr - The reason the "fun" drained is that the goalposts moved. I was working on the old goalposts, and comfortable with my rate-of-advancement towards them; I now feel I'll never reach the new goalposts. That changes the "fun quality" of running towards them.

Yes, please answer this. The answer's been unclear before.

Oh hey; no argument. Don't misunderstand me; this course might prove immensely popular and profitable for CoX even as I don't really go for it. And if so, so be it, I suppose; they're under no need to cater to me.

I'm willing to argue there have been mis-steps in that regard in the past; bases, PVP, and arguably AE. The fact that "it's the direction things are going" is not the same as, "it's the best possible choice".

It might be. I dunno. But you don't, either. And we're both hoping the Devs do.

I just think it's unfortunate that what you propose is the best path for the game is the worse (not worst, mind) path for me - and others.

Also, this.

Until there is a solo option, accurately determining how many would want a solo option would be difficult.

Also, please don't think, GG, I'm picking on you. I'd direct the same or similar disagreements at someone who argued that since people still go on sewer runs, clearly we need more first-level content instead of new incarnate trials.

Really?

Because around me - me being, me, my spouse, and the 2-4 people I team with - it's gone from 0 to 0.

Perhaps it's a sampling thing. Maybe your sample group, around your level 50 you enjoy teaming on, is biased toward those who enjoy level 50s and teaming.

You don't have the numbers to support the conclusions you're arguing, but you continue to argue them. I'm not arguing "soloists outnumber teamers", or anything - because I freely admit, I have no way to know that.

As has been said before around here, "So you're arguing from a position of ignorance? Always a strong choice."

(Note I'm also not arguing that Incarnate Content isn't a hit. Because I have no way to know that either - and admittedly, reason to believe such an argument is untrue. But I'm not convinced that it has been more successful than solo content would have been. Or that it's wise to pursue more Incarnate Trials to the exclusion of solo content.)

Edit - Arguing that the Devs are producing what the numbers tell them is desired seems ... flawed. It's possible - I think likely - that numbers would seem to tell the Devs that occasional, highly profitable, AE farms are highly desirable. After all, lots of people play them, many times over... ...right?

Do you have numbers on this? How small a minority?

Are there only 1,000 soloists, total? Is it 15% of the playerbase? 10%? 1%?

Are soloists poorly represented on the Forum because they're, well, soloists, and just "play the game to play the game"? Are they statistically over-represented on the forum?

This isn't a real statistic. We can assume that the Devs have been lead to believe that most people team and most people would / do enjoy Trials.

But the devs have made misguided assumptions about the playerbase before (coming from good places, mind you; that, I do believe).

I hope they have the numbers to back the decisions they're making here - but I'm pretty sure you don't.

Edited to note - Okay, about ten replies came out while I was typing this, and I was left behind in the conversation. And GG already replied to the same point from someone else (in exactly the manner I anticipated). Sigh.

Votre anglais, c'est bien! My francais? <CA> c'est trop mauvais.

Bienvenu au Virtue! Nous avon beaucoup des RP, tres bien. Beaucoup RP mauvais, aussi. :P

...you mean, like, ED, only for wealth?

/this.

Or her friend, actually.

...and why are you still here? Go talk to her, fool!

I find it interesting that we read the same posts and reached apparently opposite opinions on what the others were expressing.

I'm pretty sure the consensus was, "Oh, totally possible, that'd be awesome".

That might not be the answer you'd hope for, but it's not "no-one would care", either.

As purely an observer, I would hope the '88s would light another squazillion, to try to overtake you again.

That'd be worth watching.

...maybe twice.

Indeed.

Boasting about the possibility is weak.

Burn your own giant pile, and impress the heck outta all of us!

/e prepares to watch the conflagration...

Woah. Can someone confirm the 60?

This seems reasonable, and might convince me to keep a Rogue / Vigilante around.