Middle Ground Alignment Parity
By
Atilla_The_Pun,
Posted on: 2010-12-16 13:54 in Suggestions and Ideas
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If the Rogues and Vigilantes are given special contacts only they can use, shouldn't the Heroes and Villains also be given special contacts only they can use? |
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
2) A special Rogue-only contact in IP, Bricks and PI and a special Vigilante-only contact in Sharkhead, St. Martial, and Grandville with appropriate level ranges for each.
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If Rogues and Vigilantes were given access to certain contacts (like the cape and Midnighter Club missions, for instance) or these new "grey alignment" arcs were available for anyone who wanted to take them, though, that would be nice.
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| 3) Merit Reward Parity - I don't get why the merit reward for re-affirming your alignment as a rogue or vigilante for the first time is less than the reward for re-affirming your alignment as a hero or villain. |
Also, the reward for Heroes and Villains is intended to be greater because Rogues and Vigilantes have greater access to more content. This is primarily represented by AMerits, but the Hero/Villains get more regular Merits the first time as well.
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| As far as I know you get nothing for re-affirming rogue/vigilante more than once... am I wrong? I'd love to hear I am. That would make up for the lower reward if I could get it (or even a lesser amount) each time I ran it. |
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You mean almost every contact in the game?
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
If the Rogues and Vigilantes are given special contacts only they can use, shouldn't the Heroes and Villains also be given special contacts only they can use?
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AFAIK there are no Villain contacts Rogues can't use. And ditto for Hero/Vigilantes.
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Originally Posted by Shadowclone
You mean almost every contact in the game?
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Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
2) A special Rogue-only contact in IP, Bricks and PI and a special Vigilante-only contact in Sharkhead, St. Martial, and Grandville with appropriate level ranges for each. |
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
If the Rogues and Vigilantes are given special contacts only they can use, shouldn't the Heroes and Villains also be given special contacts only they can use?
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
AFAIK there are no Villain contacts Rogues can't use. And ditto for Hero/Vigilantes.
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There's only so many tip missions you can run in one day, after all, and unless you *really* love radios you're essentially forced to stop for the day and move on to another character. Or, of course, move back to your original side (blue/red) and do stuff there (which kind of defeats the whole point of "becoming evil/good" if you go back at the end of the day and save/burn a homeless shelter because you ran out of evil/good tip missions to do).
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I wouldn't be opposed to that. I also wouldn't be opposed to having those special contacts available to everyone, perhaps they go to the Rogues/Vigilante's automatically on achieving their alignment where everyone else has to be referred to them somehow. That's fine. I don't care.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
If the Rogues and Vigilantes are given special contacts only they can use, shouldn't the Heroes and Villains also be given special contacts only they can use?
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All I want is *something* to do in the City that isn't a task force. I'll definitely grant you that the ability to participate in any TF or SF in the game (outside Ouroboros) IS a great thing, but I spend 90% of my time solo or in teams too small to run a TF. I want content for my rogue that gives him a real reason to have ever gone rogue to begin with. Because, let's face it, I can ALREADY run every TF/SF in the game. All this gets me is the ability to do it with that particular character.
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Because part of your reward is ACHIEVING that alignment. As long as you keep shifting your alignment, your reward is less because you are achieving different accessibility to Paragon City and the Rogue Isles, and Alignment Merits. Settling on one alignment is a greater committment than changing to meet your goals at the moment. Also, the reward for Heroes and Villains is intended to be greater because Rogues and Vigilantes have greater access to more content. This is primarily represented by AMerits, but the Hero/Villains get more regular Merits the first time as well. |
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| I believe you get the same (greater) reward every time you reaffirm your Rogue/Vigilante status, just the same as when you reaffirm your Hero/Villain status. The reward is regular Merits, not Alignment merits, but it's greater as long as you choose not to change alignment. |
But you know, that's ok. I wouldn't mind a 2nd re-affirmation giving me nothing if I could make it up by running new story arcs over on the other side because those give reward merits too and it would open my max-possible merits per level by quite a bit... but I can't. I can't do anything that gives those sorts of rewards as a tourist except task forces.
Anyway. It's just a set of suggestions. Any single one of them would make me feel 100% better about the "Gray" alignments. As it is they are really only stopping points on the way to the other side. My real problem I guess is that I'm not interested in taking any of my villains all the way blue, or any of my heroes all the way red.
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Thank you! That is it exactly.
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Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
I believe Golden is referring to the lack of contacts that will have anything to do with you in Paragon (while you're a rogue) and the Isles (when you're a vigilante). Save tip missions and radio/paper missions, most contacts over on the side you're working towards will refuse to have anything to do with you--thus having dedicated contacts/story arcs available for you to do would be a nice break from the mundane.
There's only so many tip missions you can run in one day, after all, and unless you *really* love radios you're essentially forced to stop for the day and move on to another character. Or, of course, move back to your original side (blue/red) and do stuff there (which kind of defeats the whole point of "becoming evil/good" if you go back at the end of the day and save/burn a homeless shelter because you ran out of evil/good tip missions to do). |
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I can agree with that. I just balk at the idea that it must somehow be unique to Vigilantes or Rogues. I would say the same about Preatorian missions in Paragon City or the Rogue Isles that natives would not be allowed to take. |
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
All I want is *something* to do in the City that isn't a task force. I'll definitely grant you that the ability to participate in any TF or SF in the game (outside Ouroboros) IS a great thing, but I spend 90% of my time solo or in teams too small to run a TF. I want content for my rogue that gives him a real reason to have ever gone rogue to begin with. Because, let's face it, I can ALREADY run every TF/SF in the game. All this gets me is the ability to do it with that particular character.
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The thing is, various individuals cannot take missions when they are "visiting" somewhere else. But they do not give up their own missions in order to gain the missions in the new area. Unless the people that you are "visiting" then gain the ability to run your missions, you're gaining an advantage. It's already enough of an advantage to be able to team with those players to run their missions that you are having to sacrifice Alignment Merits for it.
Putting it another way, the problem is not that you don't have missions, it's where you have to go to get them. You'd like to be able to do something when visiting another area. But that doesn't mean it has to be completely unique to you, you might run one of the native missions. The devs just need to decide which are going to be available, and how much is balanced by giving up the Alignment Merits.
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You can team with Heroes and Vigilantes in Paragon City. Would you be willing to give that up for 20 more Merits? (That would pretty much defeat any purpose of being able to cross zones) How many more Merits would you be willing to give up to get Contacts in the City?|
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
Agreed that I don't get an award for achieving my rogue status because my reward is the open doors to the City. So why again does my committment to stay a rogue only worthy of 30 merits and a heroes is 50? That is the part I don't get.
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Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
I get 30 merits for affirming my rogue status the first time I affirm it (on my 2nd morality). Everything I've read up to now indicates I get zip for running it a 3rd time. But I'll certainly give it a try now.
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If you cannot continue to earn Merits, I do have to wonder at the logic. It would be more productive in that case to continue to switch alignments, reaffirming only once each time. Also, Heroes and Villains can continue to earn rewards for maintaining their alignment, when Rogues and Vigilantes can't. That would be an imbalance.
If that's the case, I'll admit you have an argument for Rogues and Vigilantes gaining more access to content.
You know, I was thinking about this, and thought that it might be nice if a Contact could determine the alignment of your party, and give you a different mission based on this. For instance, if your team was made up entirely of Vigilantes and Rogues, you could have a story arc that would take you between Paragon City and the Rogue Isles. If you had a Hero or a Villain on your team, though, you would be forced to remain in one area or the other.
However, I don't think there's any way to do this. The team would have to be a Task Force, for one thing, so it could not add new members that were not Rogues or Vigilantes. And while you can tell if a team is made up of all Heroes and Vigilantes, or all Villains and Rogues, for the Hero and Villain missions in Cimerora, for example, both Rogues and Vigilantes cannot be on the same team in this missions. I don't think it's possible to distinguish Heroes/Villains and Rogues/Vigilantes in that way.
Presumably, though, it would be possible to have a Contact in, say, Paragon City, who gave one mission to Heroes and Vigilantes and another to Rogues. The Rogues would just have to be limited to Paragon City, like the Heroes and Vigilantes in their mission. Since the Rogue would be capable of inviting teammates to his mission. The Contact might give a Vigilante yet a third mission, but again, I'm not sure it's possible to make the distinction. It's apparently possible for the Rogue, since he's prevented from taking the mission at all. But that just may be that the game knows he's not in his "home zone".
The thing is, it would be nice if you could be given a mission that would ask you to go be "a tourist", but I don't see any way to do that without forcing you to abandon some members of your party, and go seek out others. You kind of have to take the initiative and go over to the other side to be available for teaming as a tourist.
The only reason why Vigilantes and Rogues exist is to allow for cross-faction teaming, like I've asked for about fifty bazillion times. The only reason Heroes and Villains get Hero and Villain Merits is so there's a point to NOT being a Rogue or Vigilante so not everyone is all the time.
I'm not a fan of adding more Rogue-only and Vigilante-only content to the game, especially if it means having to rewrite every contact's dialogue to account for that. The more you restrict content, the more cumbersome it becomes to do it. I can live with the faction divide restriction, but anything beyond that isn't necessary.
Lastly, though they CAN cross over, Vigilantes and Rogues are not intended to live on the other side. Vigilantes are still heroes and Rogues are still villains, and as such do not belong on the opposite side.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Well, one important point is that the whole point behind Rogues and Vigilantes is to take a half step towards eliminating the faction restrictions that already exist. Rogues cannot talk to contacts to take Hero missions, but they CAN run them. The limitiation is, again, just so there is still a reason to play either a Hero or a Villain. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I'm not a fan of adding more Rogue-only and Vigilante-only content to the game, especially if it means having to rewrite every contact's dialogue to account for that. The more you restrict content, the more cumbersome it becomes to do it. I can live with the faction divide restriction, but anything beyond that isn't necessary.
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With that in mind, introducing a new faction with missions that no one else can run does seem to be opposed to that mindset. On the other hand, the factions already exist, and while the side switching system can smooth over it, there's nothing it can do to eliminate it. Even Praetoria can't eliminate the faction system, just go over it with a new coat of paint.
So while I agree that while there should be no content EXCLUSIVELY for one faction or the other, to me there's nothing wrong with the contact's dialog or even the content itself being different based on the faction. That already EXISTS, Rogues in Paragon City already have their own content for all of the Hero Contacts, that content is that the Contact says, "I don't talk to villains". The lack of content indicates a faction difference. So all that is needed is to add an alternative option.
I wouldn't be opposed to this, even though I would be opposed to adding a whole new contact and content that only the Rogue (the representative of the Villain faction in Paragon City) can take. That's based on the principle that if the devs are going to introduce content for one faction, they should introduce equivalent content for the other faction. Slightly more questionable would be to introduce new content to match existing content (opening up Hero Contacts to Rogues) but I think as long as the new missions were just variations with the same theme as the original, that would be okay.
There is the question of how much time the devs should spend on such an effort, but that's the case with any new content. And just as Rogues can play Hero missions by teaming with a Hero or Vigilante, Heroes would be able to see the new content by teaming with a Rogue. As long as that was kept to a minimum, I don't feel the Heroes and Villains would feel too left out. Vigilantes, of course, would be able to team with the Rogues for their content, while being able to experience their OWN new content in the Rogue Isles.
Of course, yet another alternative is to revamp the existing missions for an interplay with its Rogue version, somewhat like how the Maria Jenkins arcs were revamped. For instance, the Hero version of the mission might see a Rogue continuing to interfere in places, while the Rogue version would show the events from that Rogue's point of view. This would be a good theme for a new Contact as well. (Of course the Rogue in the Hero mission would be an NPC, and the Rogue would have a Hero NPC in his mission as well)
Central core of why it is stupid:
1. Tourists get an advantage that is entirely about access, not economics.
2. Natives get an advantage that is entirely about economics, not access.
It's like giving people who don't take any travel power double rewards. You can't balance apples with oranges, especially if what you are balancing is supposed to be about concept.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
You know... we already have restricted content on both sides the latest example of which are the Praetorian-only contacts. It isn't like this is something that's never been done before.
I guess I thought the unique tips for rogues and vigilantes might be a sign of things to come and that future looked bright with lots of options for everyone. I knew it was wishful thinking but didn't realize how far out I was.
I'm sure my master mind will stay rogue if for no other reason than role-play and to participate in the more active blue-side during special events (the rikti invasion was awesome) but I don't see the point of creating more 2nd class citizens. Too bad... I think it had huge potential.
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The Praetorian only contacts are only from 1 to 20. And after they reach 20, Praetorians become Heroes or Villains just like everyone else. |
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
You know... we already have restricted content on both sides the latest example of which are the Praetorian-only contacts. It isn't like this is something that's never been done before.
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Since Rogues and Vigilantes can't exist prior to 20 either, I would say there is an argument for there being three well-defined factions up until 20, and then two blurred factions after that. Not as blurred as they would be if both sides could cross over freely regardless of alignment, but more than it was.
Keep in mind also that Heroes or Vigilantes higher than level 20 (and that includes all Rogues and Vigilantes) would have outlevelled all of the contacts in Praetoria anyway. There would be no point in allowing them to access them.
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| I guess I thought the unique tips for rogues and vigilantes might be a sign of things to come and that future looked bright with lots of options for everyone. I knew it was wishful thinking but didn't realize how far out I was. |
And the Rogues may have unique Paragon City missions now, but they lost the normal Tip missions in order to gain them. Personally, I don't think that was necessary, Heroes and Vigilantes still have two choices per tip, while Rogues still only have one. But perhaps at a later time the new Tips will be given multiple options as well.
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| I'm sure my master mind will stay rogue if for no other reason than role-play and to participate in the more active blue-side during special events (the rikti invasion was awesome) but I don't see the point of creating more 2nd class citizens. Too bad... I think it had huge potential. |
You also have the option to go full Hero, and then Vigilante, at which time you will be the one running the missions from the Contacts on the blue side, and you will be going over to the red side to team.
Per the release 19 notes:
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I don't have a Praetorian that's managed to get out of Praetoria yet so I'm not really sure. Maybe it's just talking about the 2 new contacts everyone gets. But even before that EAT's got exclusive content within their respective zones and the Rogue Isles has long had badge-unlockable contacts. They may or may not be easy to unlock but both are examples of story-content that is exclusive to only a portion of the other characters in the zone.| Praetorians entering Primal Earth will have additional transitional story content (Level 21 30) |
The release notes also say:
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| Vigilantes in Rogue Isles and Rogues in Paragon City should now see tip drops specifically designed for fallen Vigilantes and redeemed Rogues exclusively in tourist zones. |
But I'm done. It was just wishful thinking I guess.
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I've never heard of that. AFAIK Praetorians entering Paragon City or the Rogue Isles get the same mechanism for picking up native Contacts as a Hero or Villain that switches sides.|
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
Per the release 19 notes:
I don't have a Praetorian that's managed to get out of Praetoria yet so I'm not really sure. Maybe it's just talking about the 2 new contacts everyone gets. |
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| But even before that EAT's got exclusive content within their respective zones and the Rogue Isles has long had badge-unlockable contacts. They may or may not be easy to unlock but both are examples of story-content that is exclusive to only a portion of the other characters in the zone. |
The devs have said introducing content that is only accessable to a small percentage of the player base was a mistake. That was why they lowered the unlocking requirement from level 50 to level 20, and why EATs have tended to lag behind other ATs when gaining new features, such as Power Customization.
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The release notes also say: Which is what I was referring to on the unique tips. THIS is what I want more of, just expanded a bit beyond tips since they are limited/day content. But I'm done. It was just wishful thinking I guess. |
Let's stop beating around the bush here. There are really only three reasons to go over to Paragon City as a Rogue:
1) You are in the process of becoming a Hero.
2) You want to team with other players on the blue side.
3) You want to earn badges.
There are plenty of role playing reasons to become a Rogue. But the only reason TO GO TO PARAGON CITY is because you want to be a hero. You want to perform heroic deeds and save people. If you want to do that, you might as well finish the job and switch sides. You can rely on your teammates to provide heroic tasks to perform, but if you want to truly be a hero you need to prove yourself to the Contacts so they will accept you.
The game assumes that if you are in Paragon City, you're trying to redeem yourself, to become a Hero. And I think that's a natural assumption. You may not want to take that final step, because you still have sentimental ties to your home (or not) but just being in Paragon City is pushing you towards being a Hero.
It's a City of Heroes, after all. You don't rob banks or put the hit on mooks in Paragon City.
Now, I wouldn't mind seeing some options where you can do something heroic in the Rogue Isles, or engage in some "black ops" and make some shady deals under the table in Paragon City. But I'd want to be able to do that with ANY character. I already role play many of my "villains" as coming back after the mission is over to beat the snot out of their Contact for putting them in that mess. If I had the ability to secretly be a "vigilante" in the Rogue Isles, even if I wasn't a Vigilante, then I'd jump at it.
There's no reason to JUST give Rogues and Vigilantes the ability to do that, though. Not unless this isn't about parity, and this is instead about making Rogues and Vigilantes better than Heroes and Villains. Parity means "equality". It doesn't mean "I get to do everything Heroes can do AND everything Villains can do." Or even "I get something special because I CAN'T do everything both Heroes and Villains can do."
Yep, you are right on every count. And I already said I wouldn't mind if said contacts were open to everyone, and no, I don't want the grays to be better than the pure bloods.
It *would* be cool to have options where you can do something heroic in the Rogue Isles, or engage in some "black ops" and make some shady deals under the table in Paragon City wouldn't it?
In the end analysis they DID make special content for tourists. I'll keep hoping for more. In the meantime I really wish I could make this whole thread go away.
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That is indeed the case. The contacts have different dialog depending on whether your character originated in Primal or Praetorian Earth, but the missions are otherwise identical.|
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
I don't have a Praetorian that's managed to get out of Praetoria yet so I'm not really sure. Maybe it's just talking about the 2 new contacts everyone gets.
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| I'll keep hoping for more. In the meantime I really wish I could make this whole thread go away. |
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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I think you just worded your suggestion wrong. Like I said, parity means "equality". It DOESN'T mean "identical". There is parity in the Hero side having the Statesman Task Force, and the Villain side having the Lord Recluse Strike Force. The two are not exactly the same, and in fact Rogues and Vigilantes get to do both, but because that is fairly limited in scope, that's not a problem. |
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
In the end analysis they DID make special content for tourists. I'll keep hoping for more. In the meantime I really wish I could make this whole thread go away.
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(Besides, it's pretty much a given that the Alignment Merits are the parity to Rogues/Vigilantes getting more opportunity to earn Reward Merits from Task Forces)
Here's some other suggestions I might make in the spirit of the idea:
1) Add some new Newspaper/Police Band missions that are more in the spirit of vengeance or making money. A native can choose these missions if they feel like being more of a "grey" character themselves, without actually changing Alignment. It would be somewhat like the different "feels" of the Tip missions. Then, instead of a Safeguard or Mayhem Mission, a Vigilante or Rogue would get a special kind of mission of their own. A Rogue could try to rob the bank as with the Mayhem mission, but also get points for protecting propery. A Vigilante could get a mission to sneak in and beat up a villain that the police have cornered, while trying to dodge the cops that want to stop him. Both would get their respective missions in either city.
2) As with my last post, add special contacts that ask you to "do good" in the Rogue Isles or something nasty in Paragon City. Heroes and Villains that don't consider themselves the kind to do this can just skip the contact. But the Vigilantes and Rogues will find them right up their alley.
3) Open up some of the existing contacts for Rogues. They already gain access to these contacts with Newspaper missions, let them do some "preliminary" missions, maybe a single arc. These missions would not be identical to their existing missions, but similar. They also don't earn you the Contact's cell phone number.
Some contacts, that don't even require you to do a Newspaper mission to unlock them, could just give Rogues their usual mission. Again, I'm thinking the Midnighter Club mission here.
4) If this is possible, add a new Task Force that makes players on the team temporarily "grey". The mission can then go freely between Paragon City and the Rogue Isles. Heroes and Villains would enjoy this because it gives them the opportunity to experience travelling between the cities, while Rogues and Vigilantes could be required to initiate it. In this case, the mission being unique to greys might be balanced by the benefit natives would get out of joining it as a teammate.
Golden_Avariel,
I like most of your ideas. I pretty much resent that I can't get Alignment Merits as a Vig/Rogue, and that's in addition to the other restrictions.
I would alter your suggestions slightly:
Unique Vigilante/Rogue contacts:
Make any unique contact on either side available to the grey alignments. If you have Rogue contacts in IP, Bricks, and PI make them accessible to Vigilantes as well. Give them the same arcs but with different choices, similar to Alignment or Morality mishs.
I'd love to see A-Merits for the grey types as well, but I can live w/o it because I can always run that content on one of the pure types and simply email the IO to the grey alignments.
Ouroboros:
Only one Ouroboros, make the disk into an 8 or an oval. Villain/Rogue contacts on one side, Hero/Vigilante contacts on the other. Allow the grey types to team for opposite faction flashbacks.
This simplifies things for the devs a bit, they are simply merging 2 zones into one while leaving both portals intact. This also gives a 4th crossover point for the grey types. It is also in keeping with the devs intent of all new content being for both sides, even if it is fudging a bit by simply opening up old content to the grey types.
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
I would like to see Tip missions in Paragon City offer a "rogue" choice. I can get behind that. I was a little disappointed to find there was no such option - Rogues in Paragon City can only choose to become Heroes.
(Presumably, Rogues can continue to be Rogues in the Isles; I don't know, I never tried. And this all applies to Vigilantes in the Isles, too, in a vice versa sense.)
I do think that a Merit Reward for "re-affirming" Rogue / Vigilante is appropriate, too; less than the 50 for re-affirming Hero / Villain, but then, Heroes & Villains get Alignment Rewards, and Rogues / Vigilantes don't, and that might be a big enough difference on it's own.
Of course, Rogues and Vigilantes have access, albeit indirectly, to every TF / Strike Force / Oroboros Arc in the game. So more access to more avenues to Reward Merits.
So, give Rogues and Vigilantes, say, 40 Reward Merits, instead of the "50" that Heroes and Villains get.
Wait - you say we do? Well, good, then. (I've heard. Never done it, so I don't know.)
Then just let me stay a Rogue in Paragon City, and I'm a happy guy.
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ditto|
Originally Posted by ThatGuyThere
I would like to see Tip missions in Paragon City offer a "rogue" choice. I can get behind that. I was a little disappointed to find there was no such option - Rogues in Paragon City can only choose to become Heroes.
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Originally Posted by ThatGuyThere
So, give Rogues and Vigilantes, say, 40 Reward Merits, instead of the "50" that Heroes and Villains get.
Wait - you say we do? Well, good, then. (I've heard. Never done it, so I don't know.) Then just let me stay a Rogue in Paragon City, and I'm a happy guy. |
All signs seem to indicate you get nada for running a 3rd morality but I haven't actually tried it. I need to test it.
Assuming it is true we don't get anything for continuing to do the tip mission content after the 2nd pass and because a 2nd pass is completely extraneous for us; I STILL don't understand why grays don't get 50 merits to affirm their alignment just like the pures get for their first affirmation. In my mind the real prize for being pure is the ability to generate A-Merits and the real prize for being gray is cross-faction teaming... But Jade and the others have convinced me that I'm just not seeing the big picture on this so I'm not pushing for it any longer. It isn't like 20 merits give or take is that huge of a deal to me, I just thought it was odd they were different.
Atilla: I don't want alignment merits for gray alignments. That is definitely not what I want. It is absolutely necessary that those stay exactly like they are. Now, if we could get an equal reward merit award for affirming OR a (much) lesser amount for every affirmation, then I'm all over that.
Thanks for your comments guys.
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I just feel this game punishes "pure concept" builds to a degree. Trading off content for shinies chafes a little, but only a little. Though as I said, I'm ok with this since it's easy enough to work around.|
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
Atilla: I don't want alignment merits for gray alignments. That is definitely not what I want. It is absolutely necessary that those stay exactly like they are. Now, if we could get an equal reward merit award for affirming OR a (much) lesser amount for every affirmation, then I'm all over that.
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I am interested in what you thought about the mods I suggested for your ideas on Ouroboros.
Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
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I'm all for anything that allows rogues/vigilantes to have full access to Ouroboros like they do to the other main areas of the game.|
Originally Posted by Atilla_The_Pun
I am interested in what you thought about the mods I suggested for your ideas on Ouroboros.
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Your suggestion is fine. So is having a Co-Op area with or without dual portals and flashback crystals. So is having the rogue/vigilante go to the "proper" Ouroboros depending on which side they laid their portal down in (with co-op zones going to the home ouroboros).
I don't really care but I'd really like to be able to have my rogue help anyone blue side that needs it, even if it is an Ouroboros TF, flashback, or story arc.
And the traveling thing is nice too.
There was a good suggestion earlier for a co-op Ouroboros. I signed on to that one and still believe it is the best one so far. I'll see if I can find it again.
[Edit] http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...ight=Ouroboros - I see you signed on to the idea of merging it too. It's a good idea and I hope they do it sooner or later, one way or the other.
My rogue feels like a second class citizen and I think that is sad given all the hype about being a rogue or vigilante prior to GR's release. I know I'm just a tourist but there is really very little reason outside of some events and task forces for me to travel to Paragon.
I realize all of these suggestions have been talked about before but I want to put it all in one place...
1) We need the special Rogue tips in Paragon and Vigilante tips in the Isles to offer at least 2 choices - Rogue/Hero and Vigilante/Villain.
I was VERY disappinted that they went to the trouble to create special tips for those and didn't provide an option to stay a rogue or stay a vigilante (aside from simply refusing the morality missions).
What I'd really like is a chance to be heroic in the Isles and villainous in the City but I think I understand why that isn't possible at the moment... kind of, sort of, maybe.
2) A special Rogue-only contact in IP, Bricks and PI and a special Vigilante-only contact in Sharkhead, St. Martial, and Grandville with appropriate level ranges for each.
These contacts should have missions geared toward their particular alignment. I imagine the City contacts would lean toward heroic with "something in it for me" and the Isles contacts would lean toward some brutal "taking out the garbage" kind of missions. For example I could see one of the Rogue contacts being from Hero Corp and one of the Vigilante contacts being a Wyvern agent.
It goes without saying that they would become inactive if you stop being their particular alignment. I'd like them to have one long inter-connected story arc between them but having some (possibly repeatable) random missions on each would be good too.
A lesser alternative would be to allow us to get a few (as in 1 per 5-level-range) of the existing hero/villain contacts via Safeguards/Mayhems and be able to run their arcs.
3) Merit Reward Parity - I don't get why the merit reward for re-affirming your alignment as a rogue or vigilante for the first time is less than the reward for re-affirming your alignment as a hero or villain. Heck, it's twice as hard since you have to run 20 tips and 2 morality missions to get it. It doesn't even make sense as a way to keep people "pure" since the real reward for that are the alignment merits you get EVERY time you re-affirm your hero or villain alignment after the first. As far as I know you get nothing for re-affirming rogue/vigilante more than once... am I wrong? I'd love to hear I am. That would make up for the lower reward if I could get it (or even a lesser amount) each time I ran it.
4) Allow us to enter the opposite side's Ouroboros or better yet finally turn it into a co-op zone. If not co-op then which Ouroboros I go to would depend on which side I was on when I walked into it (Co-Op zones would send me to my home zone). I don't want this so much as a travel method but more so I can use it for opposite-side train missions and to allow me to join opposite-side teams doing ouroboros flashbacks, TF's and alpha-slot missions.