Syntax42
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Posts
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Joined
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If you want to be totally invisible to most critters, you generally need two forms of stealth running. The only exceptions I can think of are Illusion Control's two stealth powers and Stalker stealth. Everyone else needs to stack stealth from two sources like Super Speed, Stealth pool power, a stealth proc, or a power like Steamy Mist.
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It would be better to soft cap more defenses than S/L and Melee together. Most melee attacks have a S/L component. You will be taking a lot of ranged damage too and not all of that has S/L. My build was designed for tanking anything in the game extremely well rather than doing well against a few damage types and struggling against others.
I know the build I posted was for Fire/SS. I was suggesting that you adapt it to work for your Fire/Fire builds. Just try to retain the sets or set bonuses.
Combustion is not a high DPS attack. It has a fairly long activation time. It is a very large radius for an AoE, though. That makes it a great taunting power, especially for the initial jump-in when critters are spread out a bit. -
Those are pretty expensive builds. Running Maneuvers without endurance reduction may lead to endurance issues.
For all-around PvE, I think you would get more satisfaction out of having a build with more than just S/L defense. Maybe you can adapt the following build to work. It achieves 32.5% defense in melee + ranged + AoE. Pop a small purple and you can farm anything. Team buffs will likely cap you too.
Code:As far as the difference between Tanker and Brute goes, I think it is up to you. Damage isn't usually the main concern on teams. However, a Brute would be better at farming and would still tank just fine if you achieve 32.5% defenses as demonstrated in the build above.| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1583;767;1534;HEX;| |78DAA594C94F137114C77FD385D28DB69652285BD9A1C0D80A262E076344120C4D1| |A219CD4A6E0D08E34A5768A9193B8DD8C0735F1E4CDF5EC16E3C55DFF00B7A8FF82| |CBC19BCBF8961F85648E4E32DFCFCC9BF77EBFF7DEEFF79BF4C9099F106B7B84E2D| |B57CC19467636575AD22ACE742EAF2F089710A2852DD9096D512B199A3AA96B95D5| |ECDE954AAE557E496B454D536756CAF03C53AD68A57CB5109A2A153478ACAAEB0FB| |ECCF272519DD67265BD94F7D3CBA49E2F54E12DB0FEE9A856310A7A3944EF53A513| |BAA1CFEB45BDBA1ADA5FD617D4CC6A45CBA6734615326886D4B6C3FDC40DA2C02D4| |CA7280352A2EE38A1BE42F0188C2AA1698530E211F232858891E9290CA4F0403625| |A9A0C936C61827A81063E7189B7D91621C794681F00C46704A07E70CC5D4A509F5B| |38417E0E0A2644DC575C586A6868B84E7F0C5CD930B77141EDA451334DFCB26BB37| |42F1BE46C6170EFD4C88829F5F96E2E72F2F61B4802C25C0A504B9862057F40A1C4| |21CE30CFDA2982DBF197F088D7F1926A109EB4E891434202CA3C2DC801E6E402F37| |A057671C23F42F1114C82F22A322A768FAFE35C2C069C619C65942E21CC10E51515| |94294736FE64A625CC26B28A18587555A8669A618631BA4D9CA5D76B65EA702DA6E| |306E123A6E11E2B7095D77080E98B05DB6BB9DDBDD11648439696E7E08FC3A65629| |DEC1767BF38FBF9C1A15B3A74B3430F3BF4B0C338E4D7271BD2779E264FF01A2478| |0D46790D52BC06295E838FB004831C651F7C6BC31D32F48EF19EF181F0138EF3B01| |C7D58B1A369C4C6B0331C845127A38EF00954E528877A97DAB8F51EE33EE30121F5| |90F0069A9F947B2E69C225DA1C9B0E1459A62D968C439E54B028641972D40EEF7F5| |D8F7CEB73B90FE2C99E45C9A0CCA11C42398C72042587328FB280623EAE45077660| |423B5176A1EC468904412EA0A7CB0BE245F1A1F8511A5002284194304A0CE51A8AE| |90ED67E1AE6574FED0F23EBFF66B17CDFB028CA1CED97AE038001F1C3B3E9FF7495| |F644F325DEC19709494BC313164BCA6219B758C62C968D46FF039E2B3C94| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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If you need help with making a build, post on the AT-specific forums. I generally try to help with Scrapper, Tanker, and Defender builds.
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Your data links don't work. Please post the data chunks. Short forum export is fine. I don't like scrolling through a few pages per build that the long forum export generates. People who are attempting to analyze or copy your builds will probably load them into Mids' first and ignore the list of enhancements.
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Quote:I have not had time to check my combat logs to see if the AoE near the tentacles is auto-hit. The ranged attacks from them are defendable, as are the attacks from the other mobile Hydra critters.Originally Posted by Sailboat
Correct me if I'm misunderstanding, I've not yet been on an Apex TF, but isn't the complaint I've been seeing that the toxic damage patches are autohit? If so, positional won't help you there.
Yes and yes. However, Arachnos do have some nasty psionic and toxic damage attacks, depending on what critters you get in the spawn. Fortunatas, Tarantula Queens, and Toxic Tarantulas are the most notable, all of which can be found in Statesman's TF.Quote:Aren't those attacks mostly psionic? Can't Invuln avoid facing them just as easily as positional sets do?
Shield Defense can achieve 70% defense debuff resistance by double-stacking Active Defense without Hami-O's in it. Performing this requires about the same amount of recharge as achieving perma-Hasten.Quote:Invulnerability has the third-best defense debuff resistance in the game, behind only SR (the king) and Shield (which is only significantly ahead if one uses the HO exploit). Some people don't want to use the exploit, in which case Inv is even closer to second place, depending on recharge slotting in Shield. Inv's DDR has been quite satisfactory in my experience as a Tanker; I have not tried it on a Scrapper yet.
Invulnerability for Scrappers gives the same 50% defense debuff resistance as Tankers get.
Most people don't like the Tier 9 powers that have a crash at the end. If your target isn't dead by the time you crash the risk of dying from having 10% HPs is very high.Quote:Originally Posted by Nemeros
I won't even talk about unstopable that will let you tank a lot of thing, compared to elude that is useless (well nearly), and One with the shield that is not really better (well at least it can have his use).
My point was that while Invulnerability is great at handling S/L damage, other sets are more well-rounded and able to handle any damage type. Those other sets can handle almost all of the situations that you would expect Invulnerability to handle, and then they stay alive in situations where Invulnerability would struggle. Willpower is an excellent example. Healing through regeneration helps keep you alive no matter what type of damage is coming in, while the set has decent defenses and some resistance against everything. -
Invulnerability is overrated. It gives a lot of S/L resist, but hardly any resistance to other types of damage. It is also good for getting to the soft cap easily, but lacks worthwhile defense debuff resistance to back it up. Basically, if you start fighting things that debuff defenses AND do a non-physical damage (Clockwork in the new TFs), you will be hurting. Also, Invulnerability has no built-in protection against psionic damage and limited toxic protection (Apex has nasty toxic damage in one part). The healing component (Dull Pain) of Invulnerability is very low on HP/s, which is why it needs to be paired with DM.
Positional defense sets (Shield and SR) are protected against all damage types. There are only a few attacks in the game that ignore defense completely and they are easy to avoid, and/or are not a threat. Willpower and Regen can mitigate any damage type as well, through healing. They do require significant investment to increase defense though. -
If you're farming, that usually means AE. You can control the critters you face in AE. So, wouldn't it be better to soft cap E/N and have the critters do mostly energy damage because you are at the cap for energy resist and not S/L? Playing to your strengths is what AE allows us to do, so why not take advantage of it if you're only going to be playing this character in a controlled environment?
You can even look up what is vulnerable to smashing damage in this thread then pick the ones that do energy damage. Rikti Drones are easy minions, but I'm sure you'll find others if you look. -
You appear to be using an integrated graphics card. Those are generally very low on performance. The rest of your computer looks fine.
Buy a PCI Express graphics card. Something in the $100-$200 price range should run well enough to last you a few years without feeling the need to upgrade it.
After you install a new graphics card, you will need to disable your integrated one through the system bios so your computer doesn't try to dedicate resources for both. -
Farming +4s requires decent survivability. Even at 90% resistance, you will be hurting without defense. This build reaches 32.5% melee/ranged/AoE, and it will be great for tanking or farming.
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You could add Aid Self.
Drop Stamina down to 3 slots. Add 2 Aegis' to Tough. That leaves you with 1 extra slot to put in Aid Self. You could pull the Regenerative Tissue unique if you wanted to add a third slot to Aid Self. I don't feel like looking up the math on which gives more HP/s right now. -
Quote:Defense-based sets (Shield and Super Reflexes) are the easiest to reach high levels of survivability, but need a heal to go with them. Resistance-based sets can reach high levels of survivability if you are willing to give up some offense in the form of recharge. My Spines/Fire Scrapper feels nearly invincible against most enemies.Originally Posted by wraithedge
I want to live.
Regeneration is probably out then. The only builds I have seen with decent defense depend on cycling Shadow Meld and Moment of Glory. They are effective, but you have to pay attention to the recharging powers.Quote:I am not a big fan of panic-button hunting.
Stamina is granted at level 2, now. Numina's and Miracle uniques generally take care of endurance issues after slotting Stamina. They are not affordable for new characters, most of the time. However, if you get 2 Hero Merits, you can use those to buy a Luck of the Gamble global recharge (then sell it) or buy the uniques. You can start to earn Hero Merits at level 20.Quote:Endo is for chumps
This is a non-issue if you have some form of healing and have endurance recovery. You may have to use Rest at lower levels, though.Quote:Down with downtime
Willpower is an easy starter set and fits your requirements. Anything else will be harder to level up, but probably more capable than Willpower at 50 with IO sets. -
If you want the most survivability out of your Fire Tanker, aim for 32.5% Melee + Ranged + AoE defense. That puts you one small purple inspiration away from the soft cap. Otherwise, its fine to try to be an offensive Tanker with Fiery Aura.
Impervious Skin is hurting your resistance. It doesn't get near the ED cap. Consider using a different set and possibly slotting your attacks for recharge bonus if you really want perma-Hasten. You can get by fine without Hasten, though.
If you would like, I will post a different build. I have to know what your goals are first, though. Do you want a good amount of defense (32.5%) with a good amount of offense? Are you only looking for offense and neglecting any defense you would have to go out of your way to get? -
Quote:A ToHit debuff is exactly equivalent to the same amount of defense.Originally Posted by YoumuKonpaku
Syntax42:
I'd also take into account some of the other defensive benefits of the primaries (which applies more to general killing of spawns and not as much AVs in some cases). I wouldn't say they could be exactly quantified into a single list since the value varies from situation to situation.
DA obviously carries the fears and stuns, as well as the -ToHit debuff in fear.
Elec saps everything nearby, albeit rather slowly unless you power sink them.
Ice reduces damage done, recharge and also saps but is a bit more limited than Elec in the sapping role.
Shield reduces damage done with AAO, and you can technically say Shield Charge is defensive with KD (and, y'know, killing things).
Stone, uh, immobilizes things and slows them.. but I wouldn't really count that.
WP taps them all with short lived -ToHit debuffs, which I think can go to like 5%ish with enhancements.
Draining endurance doesn't work on AVs unless you get a lot of endurance drains and a -recovery debuff.
Ice Armor's damage debuff is approximately equivalent to resistance, but 14% isn't much.
Knockdowns are great for mitigating damage, but one every 30 seconds is not enough to tip the scales. Most knockdowns are in the Tanker secondaries instead of primaries. -
Quote:I'm not saying its a bad set. I just think it is a little overrated. As I pointed out earlier in different words, IOing out any Tanker primary can produce something capable of tanking any TF in the game. I think Invulnerability's popularity is partially due to the ease of leveling them because they get more S/L resistance and defense at lower levels than other Tanker primaries. They are also pretty tough without heavy INF investment.Originally Posted by Sailboat
In practice, I simply have not found Invuln to be as limited as your description implies.
Take a look at this list and you will see why I think Invulnerability is overrated:
First, think about how plentiful defense is. You can get significant defense buffs from four different Defender primaries which also exist in some form on Controllers and Corrupters. Set bonuses and pool powers have also made it possible to soft cap one category of defense, or spread your defense out to 32.5% in more categories so you can soft cap with one person's buffs or a small purple inspiration. All of this means you can take defense out of the equation when evaluating survivability because it is so easy to get defense on any Tanker primary.Quote:Originally Posted by Auroxis
To make things simple, I'll try to order the primaries by their potential endgame performance:
Defensive
Stone
Invulnerability
Willpower
Dark
Elec
Shield
Fire
What should we look at when evaluating Tankers then? Resistance is the primary form of mitigation when a hit gets through the defense, so that should be looked at first. Next, regeneration and healing powers will heal whatever damage you take after resistance mitigates it.
In order of resistance vs end-game content, I would rate the primaries in the following order. Remember that energy damage is almost as common as S/L.
Stone Armor
Electric Armor
Invulnerability
Dark Armor
Willpower
Fiery Aura
Shield Defense
Ice Armor
Now, if we take total HP/s into account, things move around a bit, but not much. Remember this includes healing powers as well as regeneration.
Stone Armor
Dark Armor
Electric Armor
Fiery Aura
Invulnerability
Willpower
Shield Defense
Ice Armor
Invulnerability has one of the weakest heals, so it drops a few ranks. It heals for a LOT when you activate it, but total HP/s of healing is about double that of slotted Health, but only if you get it perma'd.
My list assumes you will spend whatever you have to in order to make an awesome end-game Tanker. The quoted list holds true for players on a lower budget or just looking to play casually. IO sets, a good player behind the keyboard, and a good team make all the difference, in that order.
Remember, I'm not saying a certain set is ineffective. Any set can work. Only extreme situations bring out the differences in the sets and most players won't try to push their Tankers to the limits by searching for those extreme situations. -
Is the extended Winter event supposed to keep us busy longer because Issue 20 isn't going to be ready for a while?
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Quote:Any Tanker can do their job on any TF. Strategies and buffs make all the difference. Your chosen power set is almost never going to stop your team from completing a TF. The differences only become big enough to notice in very extreme situations, like tanking multiple AVs.Originally Posted by shaggy5
I hesitate to reply because I know I will be blasted for my comments. I am not a numbers cruncher and can only tell you my experiences. My 50 invul tank is as tough as anything I have played with the exception of Stone. I haven't ever found that I needed more resistance than I have had (and I have tanked more TFs than I can count, including "MO" TFs).
Ice can be difficult to play, but once I was mid-40s I could rock it out. I have done several ITFs where defense debuffs are rampant, and have had no issues at all.
Mids' says 19.4 mph without Rooted on. Base movement speed (no outside buffs or enhancements) with unenhanced Swift is 19.3 mph. That means you will be moving just as fast as the person next to you, basically. When in Granite Armor, Rooted is only useful as a regen buff and you won't need the status protection. It also recharges very fast, so toggling it off to move isn't a problem. Also, most fights won't require the extra regeneration to stay at full health.Quote:Originally Posted by YoumuKonpaku
Would you post the Stone build? I am curious to see your template. What sort of movement speed are we talking?
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Quote:If you don't care about offense, Stone works fine. The movement speed penalty is a non-issue with a few IO set bonuses. I have a standardized template that I share with anyone who requests a Stone Tanker build. It includes more than enough movement speed and soft caps all but psionic which is about 30%. It can be adapted to work with any secondary. Let me know if you will still consider Stone Armor and I'll re-post the build.Originally Posted by YoumuKonpaku
Stone - This is out, I find it too slow unless I rely on Teleport or a Kin. It just isn't fun for me. I do recognize it is a great tank, but I want to enjoy my character.
The heal from Fiery Aura is actually close to competing with Willpower in terms of HP/s once you get it slotted for healing and recharge. Stack some defense from sets and Fiery Aura tankers can do almost anything you would want them to do.Quote:Fire - Out, I like it for offense, feel it is squishy (but that's from me trying it on scrappers and brutes, possibly). I heard Toxic is nasty in the new TFs which I have not tried, having just returned from hiatus. I do not remember if Healing Flames Toxic RES stacked, but if it did that would technically be in favor.
This is true about WP not having a great taunt aura. A taunt power is definitely needed from your secondary.Quote:WP - I love WP, this is a contender for me. I usually play it on scrappers/brutes, for ease and enjoyment, but I am under the impression it has weak aggro. That can, of course, be made up with a good secondary, but I appreciate a solid taunt aura. If I am wrong on this, please correct me. I love the regen, the decent S/L/Psi resist, etc. I can bring my scrappers to cap S/L/M def on /WP, so as a tank with better weave numbers it should be easier and possible to maybe cap some of the other types as well with careful slotting.
Invulnerability is really only good against smashing and lethal damage. Against anything else, the resistance is poor. Psionic and toxic damage will hurt a lot. It is more difficult to slot for Psi defense in Invulnerability due to needing to slot for more defense than a Granite Tanker needs to reach the soft caps on everything else.Quote:Inv - Didn't like it back in the day, seriously considering it now. I put together an Inv/Kin build which is at home, had great numbers and was fairly happy with it. I'm not sure how the set performs at 50 compared to others, but the outlook appears good. No clue on how the aggro tools are, though.
Shield Defense can handle toxic damage about as well as it handles any other damage type. It is the only Tanker set I know of that can reach capped defense debuff resistance.Quote:SD - Mostly out for reasons similar to Fire. Not as squishy, IMO, but I prefer it in an offensive position. Love it on a scrapper, not interested for tanking purposes. I can appreciate the tools it brings and ease of positional capping, but I'm not sure it is what I'm looking for. I would be open to suggestions on it, though.
Ice is about the same as Shield Defense, except you aren't protected against fire, cold, psionic, or toxic damage. You will also die quickly to defense debuffs.Quote:Ice - I know I said I prefer RES sets, but I have a place in my heart for Ice. Ice/Ice to be specific, especially since I read that Ice melee got a damage buff. My main concern is the absolute lack of RES aside from Tough, maxed Cold, and a smidgen of Fire and Toxic. Love the ease of capping SLEN and the threat tools, though. I hear bad things about this set at high level play in regards to it being smooshed without having backup from, say, Therm and/or Son.
Electric Armor lacks a signature power that makes it stand out. The recharge buff power doesn't really enhance your ability to tank. It is a decent set with high resistances to almost everything and would work great as a tank when you stack defense on it.Quote:Elec - I am completely clueless on this set. On paper it doesn't seem bad. It just appears to be one of those sets I don't hear much about in either direction. I do think sapping is cool, though.
Dechs covered this one. I will just point out that I wish my DA tanker had more energy resistance because it is such a common damage type in level 50 content.Quote:Dark Armor - I used to have no interest in this set for any character... Until I started reading Dechs Kaison's posts. That man is a convincing person, to be honest. The numbers seem decent, although the set appears to be one that is IO hungry. Which, again, given my pursuit isn't an issue. I like the control tools, they're neat. Cloak of Darkness concerns me from a tank perspective. Dark Regen looks neat, and I like the idea of having Soul Transfer.
Don't worry too much about toxic resistance. It is only in one of the new task forces and there are other ways around it, like confusing the critters or going straight for the towers. We still haven't seen the other nine Incarnate slots or the content that comes with them.
After playing a DA tanker, I would probably reroll to a Electric Armor if I had the time. Negative damage is almost nonexistent so far. Electric and Dark have the most resistances to the common damage types if you exclude Stone Armor. Invulnerability is great against S/L but falls apart when facing defense debuffs and a non-physical damage type. -
The trick to getting high DDR on Shield Defense is to double-stack Active Defense with at least 2 Membranes in it. Get the recharge time on it down to or below 60 seconds.
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For Shield Defense, the powers that enhance defense debuff resistance are Battle Agility, Active Defense, and Grant Cover. The DDR in Grant Cover is not enhanceable. Active Defense does not accept defense enhancements, so 3 Membranes are usually used because they provide recharge bonus as well as the defense enhancement.
To see how much DDR you have in-game, click on "Powers" above your action bar, then click "Combat Attributes" at the top of your powers window. Click on "Debuff Resistance" and look for "Defense Resistance".
To see your DDR in Mids', click on Window -> Advanced Totals. Click on Status at the top then look at Defense under the Debuff Resistance category. -
You don't want to do the work, so you expect someone else to do it for you while they gain nothing in return?
I'm more than willing to help people, but they must understand how to make builds for themselves. Working on your own build helps you understand the little intricacies of your powerset combination.
Post a build that is your own and you may get some advice on how to improve it. Be sure to include your goals for the build, otherwise the advice may suggest you to spend billions you don't have.
Edit: Alternatively, you can search these forums for builds others have posted. Be sure to read the threads as some of the builds have many flaws that are fixed in a later posting of the build or pointed out by others. -
Quote:Brutes will never completely replace Tankers on teams. Some people may take Brutes over Tankers, but most teams will want a Tanker as their main tank. The Brute is then an off-tank and DPS if they are teamed with a Tanker. I'm not saying a Brute can't be your main tank. Its just that Tankers do it better in most situations and teams like the increased chances of success that a Tanker provides when main tanking instead of a Brute.Originally Posted by Curveball
Slight deviation of topic here, but one of the things I do when I create a tank is I also create a brute with the same powerset. Yikes, that's a lot of damage at the low levels! But what's going to be interesting is comparing their survivability at higher levels. My theory is that at the higher levels, when the fire tank can properly slot out his attacks, he'll be able to last longer in more challenging fights because his resists and heal are higher, and that while he won't reach the peaks of damage that a fury bar can provide, the 3-slotted fire attack chains will be substantially more than adequate in most cases.
Have to admit that fury + fire damage is really addictive though. :-)
Tankers have more HPs and higher base values for their armor set. IOs can not make up the difference in resistance if a Brute were to try to reach Tanker survivability. Also, the heal on a Tanker will always do more than a Brute due to higher base HPs.
To answer your earlier question about defense, you probably shouldn't expect to soft cap until you get IO sets. I don't even bother with IO sets until I get to 47 on my characters. That is mainly because you get so many slots from 30-50 that you need in order to fill your build out. Start chasing defense through powers like CJ and Weave as you level because it will help you reach the soft cap when buffed by teammates.
Instead of chasing down 45% defense, you can aim for 32.5% defense. That puts you one small purple inspiration away from soft capping. On the build I have done that on, I don't find the need to use inspirations every fight. Only the tougher fights require soft capped defenses.
You can either go for smashing, lethal, energy, and negative defenses, or go for melee, ranged, and AoE. Fire and cold damage is not very common. You will have capped fire resistance, leaving just the very rare cold damage and occasional psionic damage as your vulnerabilities. I prefer the positional defenses though. It leaves no vulnerabilities in damage types. Even toxic has to pass a to-hit check and the defense usually helps a lot. I had an Invulnerability Tanker marvel at how well I didn't take damage against the Hydra in Apex TF that otherwise owned her. Your choices of 32.5% defense or 45% defense, and positional or typed defense all depends on your budget and how difficult you find it to soft cap with your build.
People plan out their level 50 builds because it helps them see where they are going. They have done it so many times that the path to getting there seems obvious to them. That's why you don't see advice on how to level most builds when they post them. -
It isn't hard to figure this out. The new Mids' (1.91) has an option to display Arcanatime animation times. Just add up the animation times for all attacks in your chain EXCEPT the one you are trying to figure out the recharge time for. The sum will be the required recharge time.
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Everything is working as intended. The first time you affirm your alignment as a Hero or Villain, you get 50 reward merits instead of an alignment merit.
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Quote:Sounds like it suppresses the amount of status protection they get from PToD. City of Data's Benumb information seems to suggest it suppresses 74.5% of status protections.Originally Posted by Smersh
Near as I can figure, PBU+Benumb+the ability to stack about Mag 18 of stuns>PToD.
53 * (1 - 74.5) = 13.515
That makes sense now. I should be able to keep an AV perma-stunned with my build. I won't have PBU, but I will be able to stack 15-18 mag of stuns from my attack chain.