Spiritchaser

With the prevalence of -knock IOs, some of which are quite reasonably priced, it's possible to stack up some very high mag knock protection even without the power.

With it? well, it's another power slot in a moderately tight build, it's a bit more end drain, and it's a fair bit of extra hold protection. With mez IOs in the and the unique, that could be reasonably close to what a scrapper gets... although obviously only against holds.

I currently have it in the build, but how many of you feel that this is worth doing?

For reference, the corruptors in question are at present, a rad/thermal and, eventually, also a sonic/cold, both are for zones and kickballs... I'm not really good enough for anything else.

How about something a little different?

Stone/Electric.

Electric has higher resists than fire, but much lower self healing ability... normally this is a bit grim, but wait... you've got a friend to help with that! Pain domination will rather effectively shore up that little... er big... gap.

Your friend could use some aggro management? Well you get a taunt aura, and power sink...

Want some epic AoE control? you simply cannot challenge Fault.

Oh and as electric your friend might take it into their head to use short circuit...

Run in with fault then short circuit + power sink will make a mess of most things. Slot some Endmods in your aura to keep the drain going and keep your foes helpless.

Want more? Take the mu epic and then slot some endmod in tesla cages as well.

SS/Ele is also worth thinking about. It's probably the more useful all around build too, but stone gets bonus marks for being extra fun.

Counterpoint: Your role on the ITF will probably be dps only. You are not well suited to being a tank on this TF.

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If I dominate bacon for Sunday brunch, is it okay to talk about it in here?

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So if a misplaced question is asked in the brute forums, the conversation will inevitably degenerate to a discussion of charred lumps of animal flesh?

I suppose that's appropriate.

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perhaps the ONLY attack power side-effect in the game that CAN have a downside.

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There has to be some truth to this, but there's more truth if it were applied to storm...

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This. A thousand times, this. People don't hate Energy Blast. people hate people who send mobs sailing into adjacent spawns, causing pets and overzealous Scrappers & Brutes to go chasing them.

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Adjascent spawns are the least of my concerns.

Sending targets out of debuffs is big problem
Sending them out of AoEs is inconvenient.
Breaking LoS, moving other players current targets unpredictably, or blasting them out of taunt auras are also inconveniences of note.

By all means take the set, but just be aware that some of the attacks you might really really want to use will make the team LESS safe, others will result in LESS total AoE team dps...

Depending on the situation of course... I mean, in fairness, I still like hand clap...

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I'm taking it.....at 49.

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This is pretty much my philosophy as well.

I'd take it earlier if it had a halfway reasonable radius... but it doesn't.

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So, in conclusion, if a set like this were designed and implemented you can bet there will be redraw, it is much harder to remove it than it seems on the surface.


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Much as I'd disslike this, it wouldn't stop me. I'd still roll a pistols/(whatever it gets called) blaster

If a miracle occured and a set like this happened, then as a compromise, I'd probably request that at least sticky hands get the same combat mode, ready stance etc as the dual pistols uses,

But then, lets face it: I'd probably be so happy that the set existed in the first place that I wouldn't care too much if the stance didn't work out.

I'm going to go a little against the grain here.

Sure, Obviously it's build dependent, my fire/dark corruptor was nothing less than a true monster (perhaps I should roll another some day) but at least in the mid game and after, most of my controllers were very solid. The combination of damaging powers from my control primary, and containment made most of my controllers feel capable enough for damage, and radically safer. Not only that but they often had options that corruptors don't get.

There is no seeds of confusion for corruptors, there are no fire imps, there are no phantom armies.

I'll easily grant that those sets are the high damage controllers, but I guess that's really my point. A high damage controller is pretty damn good, especially when compared to a lower damage corruptor.

Certainly my rad/thermal is agonizingly slow to solo at the moment, although that should improve some once I've got the second damage proc into his attacks, and once I've got more IO recharge driving my big guns. OK he's probably competitive with my earth/thermal, but you know... Stoney with forge isn't half bad, and with the two res procs and thermal shields, he's an unbeatable monster of a tank as well...

I'm pretty sure it's not perfect, it may not even be that great...

I think perhaps my post just wasn't interesting enough... Ah well.

If I added a pack of werepoodles, would that generate more attention?

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I'd take Martial Arts even with redraw, though.

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So would I.

By the way, thanks all for taking any interest in this. It's obviously a very hypothetical situation, I can't imagine much likelyhood of it coming to pass, but hey, I can hope.

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To me, it doesn't seem like you want a "body mastery" secondary. You want a "gun fu manipulation" secondary

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Actually I want a low effects secondary with strong martial arts themes, one that allows the generation of a character that cannot, currently, be produced in game.

I recognize that no powerset would be around for just a single concept (even EATS are variable) so clearly it'd have to work conceptually with other primaries. I'm not sure how this wouldn't be appropriate for everything from a psionically endowed warrior to a special forces operative... but that's probably not an argument that can have a resolution

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will allow you to get higher levels of survivability than any other manipulation set currently allows.

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Input appreciated. Were sticky hands to be limited from stacking though, I'm not sure it'd be so night and day.

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DA/Parry is already a stupidly strong power. With the Blaster self buff mod, it would only be reduced to 14% +def (melee/smashing). Considering the recharge and activation time on it, you'd still be able to easily softcap those defenses right out of the box. Numerous Kat/* and BS/* Scrappers have readily admitted that DA/Parry is the single most powerful defensive power they've got at their disposal. Blasters ain't gonna get it.

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I have faith that the defence could be lowered to the point where it was quite accpetable. Even a simple "does not self stack" flag should solve the lion's share of the problem.

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The only way to avoid redraw is to make entirely separate animations for each power that includes the drawn guns.

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This is what I'd want.

There aren't all that many, since for the most part, it's not going to be a concern for Blasters. As far as I can see, you'd need to do pistols (presumably not a big deal, I think you could pretty much graft those right in there) AR (possibly a big deal) and Archery (yes that might suck, but I have faith)

So dual pistols eh?

It's been known for some time now that dual pistols will never be a scrapper primary. I did hold out some hope for an epic for a while, but it looks like I'll just have to have a blaster. Ok then...

A blaster primary is great and all, but it's not (at least not obviously) going to lend itself to what I want: a gun-fu character. This is a character style I've wanted to make, ever since I got my trench coat, and I noted earlier that another poster had thrown out a melee secondary with a very martial arts like theme. My apologies for missing the reference on that! In any case, it got me to thinking about how I'd do a gun fu blaster, and what they'd need from a secondary to work. Obviously this couldn't be just a one concept secondary, but I think this could do well with psi or energy for a mentally adept martial artist, or with fire for some manner of diabolical monk, or with AR for a marine...

I'm curious to know how fair and/or playable people think this set looks.

1. Crane kick
The same (or similar) animation as the scrapper attack, but this is NOT the same power. In this set, it's a low damage attack that knocks your opponent back, functionally identical to power thrust from EM, the animation would need to be compatible with pistols, but I'd imagine that'd be doable. Just a quick note here, different applications of the same animation/name do sometimes occur, and in the blaster secondary tier 1 at that. Blaster/fortunata Subdue is a functionally different power for example. I don't see a problem with stealing Crane kick for this slot.

2. Thunder Kick
Similar to the scrapper attack, this version will have a 10 second recharge and hit substantially harder

3. Sticky Hands
To my mind, a power like this is key for any decent gun fu set. What is it? Parry. Yup, Parry. Basically the same power, but with blaster mods. It'll protect from melee attacks like parry. A minor change? it'll protect from smashing damage instead of lethal, and do smashing damage instead of lethal. To me this is the make it or break it power, the good stuff... so I put it in early. It is vitally important that BaBs lets these animations work with or without pistols!

4. Storm Kick
Also similar to the Scrapper Attack, but this version has a 14 second recharge and hits like a tonne of bricks.

5. Focused Accuracy/Buildup
For FA? The mods are a little different from the scrapper power. This version is mechanically identical to targeting drone in devices/gadgets. I was really torn here, I wanted to put in Buildup. I prefer buildup in almost every way, I think it's generally the superior power, but FA would be a little more distinctive. I guess I'd put this down to testing.

6. Dragon Tail
There are no blaster PBAoEs as low radius as this. Why can this be OK? Well with Sticky Hands you've got more melee range survival than most blasters, so go for it, take a chance and get in close. The compensation? reduced radius should mean more damage. Why hit their heads with your feet when you can hit their heads with the floor?

7. Foresight
This is the widow power. Not nearly as powerful with blaster mods, it'll still be effective and useful. I really wanted to add a Mez toggle, but after all these years I think it's become clear that such things just WON'T happen for blasters. I thought a bit of mez resistance might, however, be able to sneak in...

8. Conserve Power
Wouldn't really be body mastery without it, now would it?

9. Eagles Claw
Similar to the Scrapper Power, this one has a 20 second recharge and really REALLY hurts.

I'm already starting to buy this stuff now, though most of it isn't too hard to come by, lead time always means better deals.

Any thoughts before I start dropping my inf?

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 50 Magic Corruptor
Primary Power Set: Radiation Blast
Secondary Power Set: Thermal Radiation
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Neutrino Bolt -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(3), HO:Nucle(3), Apoc-Dam%:50(5), LdyGrey-%Dam:50(5), ShldBrk-%Dam:30(7)
Level 1: Warmth -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:50(A), Dct'dW-Rchg:50(15), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:50(15), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:50(17), Dct'dW-Heal:50(23)
Level 2: X-Ray Beam -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx:50(7), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(9), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg:50(9), ShldBrk-%Dam:30(11), LdyGrey-%Dam:30(11)
Level 4: Fire Shield -- TtmC'tng-ResDam:50(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx:50(43), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg:50(43)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), Ksmt-ToHit+:30(45)
Level 8: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(13), RechRdx-I:50(13)
Level 12: Aim -- AdjTgt-ToHit:50(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg:50(37), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg:50(39), AdjTgt-Rchg:50(40)
Level 14: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(36)
Level 16: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(17)
Level 18: Cosmic Burst -- Apoc-Dmg:50(A), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg:50(19), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(19), Apoc-Acc/Rchg:50(21), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(21), LdyGrey-%Dam:50(23)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%:50(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:50(31), P'Shift-EndMod:50(31), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg:50(34)
Level 22: Plasma Shield -- TtmC'tng-ResDam:50(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx:50(29), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg:50(29)
Level 24: Cauterize -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:50(A), Dct'dW-Rchg:50(25), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:50(25), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:50(27), Dct'dW-Heal:50(27)
Level 26: Assault -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 28: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit:50(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:50(37), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:50(40), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:50(40), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:50(42)
Level 30: Super Speed -- Zephyr-ResKB:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(31)
Level 32: Proton Volley -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg:50(33), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(33), Mantic-Acc/ActRdx/Rng:50(34), LdyGrey-%Dam:50(34)
Level 35: Heat Exhaustion -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(36), RechRdx-I:50(36), RechRdx-I:50(43)
Level 38: Melt Armor -- AnWeak-Acc/Rchg:50(A), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg:30(39), Acc-I:50(39), RechRdx-I:50(46)
Level 41: Shark Skin -- TtmC'tng-ResDam:50(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx:50(42), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(42)
Level 44: Forge -- GSFC-ToHit:50(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:50(45), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:50(45), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:50(46), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:50(46)
Level 47: Spirit Shark Jaws -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(50), UbrkCons-Dam%:50(50)
Level 49: Hibernate -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Scourge

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How is this relevant to archetypes or powers?

Post belongs in City Life/General.

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Well the OP did ask for some new proliferated sets. As far as I can tell, that sort of thing is generally considered relevant enough around here.

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With the advent of switching sides will you find yourself making a brute over a scrapper?

Discuss

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I'll have both, much as now, some blue brutes, some red scrappers.

More importantly I'll have some blue corruptors and red controllers, and we'll just have to wait and see about the doms.

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I doubt anyone would attribute any of the Tanker sets mentioned as being especially Assault like. The ranged attacks within just aren't up to snuff

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To make a tanker set "assault-like" you really have to work the patron/epic pools as well.

I don't think you could really argue that SS/*/Mako doesn't have some very strong similarities.

Sure you have to happen to like sharks and you're only going to see the power in the extreme late game, but a massive PBAoE, 3 chainable cones, all of which are completely viable, solid ranged AoE attacks, good melee and then Hurl, which while not ideal, is much stronger than it used to be.

*/SS/Pyre tanks can have reasonably solid ST ranged chains with Hurl-RoF-FB, though clearly you have to wait untill the extreem endgame for this playstyle, and you waste a lot of the potential power of your build by embracing it.

I'd suggest that the defence set can contribute even more in some cases, but a highly hypothetical assault/defence AT would have those same tricks, so it'd be a wash on that score.

Again: With VEATS or other builds, I think it's pretty clearly possible to get something crudely like the playstyle I'm talking about now. It's often only possible in the late game, and it's definitely only possible within some limited concept types (I want psi assault at level 1, not shark assault at level 47 dammit!) but it's out there.

Shields can be a bit expensive.

Unless you're going DM/SD (DM's heal in SL compensates for survival) then shields are going to feel a little soft without some IOs.

Now, DM/Shield is a very solid set, it gets you what you need early, and it's plenty destructive, versitile and fun, even with basic IOs.

With a billion infamy worth of IOs, it's arguably one of the most capable things out there, spitting death and judgment in all directions...But it's an even more fussy build.

SS/WP or Ele/WP can be built with a random number generator and still be good.

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I am not an elite brute player. This is an alt that I'm not going to spend time and influence on going after set bonuses to make playable, I need something that is sturdy and able to kill out of the box with common IOs.

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SS/WP

You can hit what you want, kill what you want, you're tough enough (take tough/weave to be be tougher if you feel like it)

You can do everything well, and you don't have to sweat the details...

Well, ok I lied. There is one little detail you might need to sweat: The rage crash.

Some people just hate it... loath it to the point where they won't play a SS character. If this is you, or if you think this MIGHT be you, roll an Ele/WP with the fighting pool. Still no fancy IOs required, still solid as hell.

Brute dps, scrapper dps... meh, close enough. I think there are very valid reasons for a brute to match, or in reasonable cases somewhat exceed scrapper damage. To me this feels right as is, and is not worth fighting about.

What IS a problem, at least from this data, is firey.

Why are we muttering about a highly unclear case (and no I reject any suggestion that brute/scrapper damage is "clearly" unfair in either direction) when the set with by far the weakest mitigation, and really, not even the "best" AoE damage has anything other than the top DPS? [edith and I'd best not forget the generally poor IO slotting options]

But fire is energy efficient?

Sure it is. Does that seem like enough justification to you? I know it doesn't to me.

And... how does that factor in the dissproportionate benefit a scrapper gets from buildup/soul drain?

Don't get me wrong, in the general case a hyperagressive brute almost certainly does do more damage, and their playstyle almost certainly invokes more incoming damage than that 12% HP can compensate for.

How about throwing swords at people?

Or worldstones?

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I don't think there needs to be any manner of buff, I don't see a disparity between brute and scrapper power from this.

keep in mind that in a buff heavy environment, those scrapper chains are going to get a hell of a lot more from every point of +damage than their counterparts.

Do Brutes have a higher + damage cap? sure, but they need all of it just to equal what one fulcrum shift can do for a scrapper.

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AT's should not be balanced by how well they are buffed by other outside at's, especially when looking at only a few specific powers like fulcrum shift. If we do that, granite armor is way too powerful because kins let them move quickly, or buffed blasters are too powerful because they have too much damage mitigation for the ranged damage they put out.

From the info I've seen, brutes eclipse scrapper dmg far too often considering the fact they always have better dmg mitigation. And top-end, scrappers should have the dmg advantage in most cases because brutes clearly have dmg mitigation advantage at the top end, and this info clearly demonstrates that brutes have dmg dealing and dmg mitigation superiority on the top end. That's clearly imbalanced, and it's even less defensible when you consider the two at's share many of the same powersets.

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Now now... one of the resounding concerns (which has cropped up in this thread) is that brutes have such a high cap for resistance. Asside from tier 9s (something only up rarely on most builds) this is something you depend on external buffs to exploit.

To bemoan the relative efficacy of resistance buffs on brutes, while ignoring the significantly higher damage bonus from everything from AM to Forge to Fortitude upon a scrapper, is not the path to a balanced argument.