SpaceDog_EU

I trade one of your toons some influence - around 2 million - for infamy - around 2 million.

My villain is on Union - but I can trade influence to heroes on either Union or Defiant. (As long as the infamy goes to my Union Villain)

Send me a tell @A-Force

Thanks for the input guys - very interesting.

Still not sure though.

Ideally UI would like BOTH Hatsen and Aid-self and perhaps dropping tough and weave might be an option.. hmm

Then again, at level 20 I feel weak - dropping tough and weave might be viable once I have EA and seeing how effective that is and its reharge speed. Also, I guess, once I have SOs, my view of the need for aid-self might drop in reflection of my survivability.

Still, its not an easy one for me. This is the first time I've even considered aid-self for a tanker!

I've got a free respec on the toon, so that will leave me with options if I mess up.

Thinking about it, dropping thte fighting pool actually makes more sense the more I think about it - get both aid self and hasten - probably gives more defensive survivability than tough and weave together..... I'm warming to the idea.

Post says it all - or some of it.

I have an ice/nrg tanker - current level 20 at the moment. However, I have one more choice for a pool power - ideally I would get both, but alas I have to choose!

I have Swift - going to get health and stamina

I have boxing and tough - also going to get weave

I have combat jump and super jump


I've already solicited advice with different results

Hasten - because my attacks recycle faster etc
Aid Self - because you can use it effectively with 2 interrupt enh

Some info - my tankers are not generally attacking tankers, at least not as the first priority - I build them for team tanking and survivability - damage output is a side issue for me; I will fit this in after and only after I have reached my primary objective.

My main use for Hasten if I were to get it therefore, would mainly be for the faster recharging of hoarfrost and other defensive powers, rather than for faster attacks.

My aim for aid self would be to be better able to survive all the of attention of the mobs around me. And I understand that the heal of aid self is reflected by the health of the toon? So for tankers, aid self would be good numbers?

Other opinions I've recieved;

Aid self is a waste as it has precursors - doesn't matter for me - I'm thinking long term and don't regard boxing, or swift/hurdle/health, aid-other or stimulant etc - as 'wasted powers' - so thats not an issue.



Anyway - thoughts please with accompanying arguments if possible.

All depends on how you define fun really.

Most of my toons were a slog up to around lvl 25 until I'd got SO's slotted in. Its true to say for most tanks - that you really realise the difference when SOs come into play and then suddenly realise what your potential can be.

Fire tanks, at least for me require stamina, tough and weave and acrobatics - as well as the fire shields - minus temp protection unless something has changed - so yes, that feeling of toughness will come a bit later on in the build becasue of the reliance upon pool powers which other tankers don't have to the same degree.

Grts, Jackie Brown

....... you play with the volume turned down..

For me, its always tempting to hang back on the first sally into battle - when you have more than one tanker on the team. Just to see what the other tankers are capable of and how they tank. Also, the thing about tanking as a pair is that sometimes the better tanker will be in the red sooner than the scranker, simply becasue the better tanker has all the aggro.

Always good to tank on a team with a fellow decent tanker, or one you know. Nothing worse than being on a team with 2 tankers trying to compete and playing 'who can grab the most aggro'.... fun for all the rest of the team there...... not [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I think you could consider some more end redux especially in attacks unless you'll be teaming with someone who can keep your end topped up all the time. You've got those slotted like a regen might - but you dont have the stamina.

If your going to slot attacks up and intend to stay mainly in Granite Armour, you may as well put recharges in there as well.

Granite slows the recharge of the attacks. Although there is hasten in the previous (but, one) build, it won't be up enough to make a great deal of a difference to the non-slotting of recharges in attacks.

And if you're going to get taunt, the same reasoning applies - put some recharges in them.

Three slotting mudpots with endredux is a waste. 2 at the most. This is your AOE taunt aura - slot it with taunt.

Handclap is a love it or hate it power. I personally hate knockback when tanking, especially from the tank!

Footstomp tends to be a knock up power, except against lower lvl foes - again, if you're staying in granite, recharges in your attacks will help the -slow penalty.

Well Done - and a big congrats.

Was fun playing with you as Incarnate - wow - you do take your time about levelling

Anyways I'll catch you again when I'm next on Defiant

Earth/Rad - sounds like a nice combo

I'd say all the powers in Earth have some relevenat usage, but depending on your playstyle and whether you team a lot may effect the choices you make.

For me, with my Earth/Storm, I find all of the powers bar Salt crystals to be helpful in control within a team setting.

Fossilse - is the single target hold in the set, it looks like a block of stone covering most of a foe, very useful -I'll be slotting 2 acc 2 hold 2 recharge

Quicksand is a patch of brown goo, which slows enemies that pass through it (I have to add, that when I'd three slotted this with slows (before my respec), some foes ran through it like it wasn't there - Warwolves come to mind, although there may have been others - so expect some suprises) I've slotted 1 slow, 1 recharge (Although I might stick another slow in there - I have snowstorm to stack the slow with)

Stalagmites produces spikes of rock which disorient foes - this is great as an opener - disorienting the majority of a spawn gives you some time to add other controls without attracting aggro. I've gone with 2 acc 2 recharge 2 disorient

Earthquake is a pulsating rock on the ground that causes foes to bounce up and down on and around it, unable to attack. Great control tool. Ive gone with 3 recharge

Volcanic gasses is a great power, its a greenish patch that swirls on the ground and pulses a gas which over time will hold foes, causing them to hold their throats while choking on the spot I've gone with 3 recharge 1 hold (Although I may stick another hold in there to see if it makes much of a difference. Its pretty effective with just the recharges)

Animate stone - your pet. Very slow attack chain, but quite tough - uses stone mallet, stone fists and hurl boulder. When slotted, does some decent damage, but, as I say, very slow attacks.

Earthquake, Quicksand, Volcanic gasses and animate stone can all be cast while you stand safe behind a corner.
This is great as with all the aoes in the set, it can be an aggro magnet if you do things wrong and will end up in debt

Thats why I've left stone cages at the bottom. Its an aggro magnet for sure, immobilising all foes it effects within rock. They can't move, but they sure can fire back at you and they will if you haven't prepared properly i.e. with another control which incapacitates their ability to retaliate i.e stalagmites, volcanic gasses.
Theres also a single target immobilise which does the same as stone cages, cept' on a single foe.

Salt Crystals - as I mentioned, not my fave power at all - its an aoe sleep and will be ruined if someone attacks a slept foe. i.e. and aoe attack. I could see some use for it, as a sort of panic control, where mobs are mistakenly aggroed or when your team become overwhelmed....... but its not for me, and can't find the space for it in my uild+ the slotting it will need to be effective enough to do the job I've got it for.

I don't know much about rad, so can't give you advice on how the powers work and how they may synergize with the primary - I'll leave that to others

[ QUOTE ]
A good tank with a poor build can make a team work great with a debuff defender. A bad tank in the same team ( even with a 'perfect' build ) will mess everything up.


[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

Even without support, a 'poorly built' tanker with the 'right attitude' can make a team work.

I can imagine how it must have been frustrating. However, looking at it from the khelds point of view - when I was WSing - the thoughts that follow are;

a) If I'm going in nova form, will I get aggro?
b) Is the tanker getting all aggro?
c) If I get aggro, is there sufficient backup?

Those were regular thoughts that I had before eclipse and would definately affect my game plan. Sometimes it can appear that aggro is being controlled by the tank, if there are no real damage dealers on the team - and its really down to judgement if the kheld feels safe in changing to nova. Maybe this WS didn't for good reason.

If someone were to ask me why I wasn't in nova, I may feel unwilling to air my conerns about the tank/team makeup and the risk I may be placing myself in if I go Nova form.

For example;

"Why not go Nova Form and speed things up a bit?"
"Well.... the tank can't tank and you can't heal.... I'm not going Nova Form under those conditions!"

Sometimes things are better left unsaid.

Again, I could be on the wrong track completely and the WS could just be pants

Or just using a playstyle preference

[ QUOTE ]
only 1 acc and no FA. i guess thats viable for end in pve.

Too bad i want my DM/DA to PvP too, ill try to make a screenshto of his slotting.

edit: also, i run in BEFORE the tank does Dark Regen ftw :P

[/ QUOTE ]

On occasions I might try to run in before the tank, but death shroud and quills running is an aggro magnet and I play safe

Against even con foes, +1s and +2s - sure. Anything above and theres problems without support depending on mob type.

This is an approximation of my build - I got Buildup earlier and acrobatics much later.

b]---------------------------------------------
[/b]Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Scrapper
Primary: Spines
Secondary: Dark Armor
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Lunge==> Dmg(1)Dmg(3)Dmg(9)Acc(11)EndRdx(37)EndRdx(40)
01) --> Dark Embrace==> DmgRes(1)DmgRes(3)DmgRes(15)EndRdx(21)
02) --> Spine Burst==> Dmg(2)Dmg(5)Dmg(9)Acc(17)EndRdx(37)EndRdx(45)
04) --> Death Shroud==> Dmg(4)Dmg(5)Dmg(13)Acc(19)EndRdx(29)EndRdx(45)
06) --> Murky Cloud==> DmgRes(6)DmgRes(7)DmgRes(7)EndRdx(15)
08) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(8)
10) --> Impale==> Dmg(10)Dmg(11)Dmg(13)Acc(31)EndRdx(34)EndRdx(42)
12) --> Swift==> Run(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Dark Regeneration==> Rechg(16)Acc(17)EndRdx(43)EndRdx(43)EndRdx(43)
18) --> Obsidian Shield==> DmgRes(18)DmgRes(19)DmgRes(21)EndRdx(34)
20) --> Health==> Heal(20)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22)EndMod(23)EndMod(23)EndMod(40)
24) --> Quills==> Dmg(24)Dmg(25)Dmg(25)Acc(27)EndRdx(27)
26) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(26)EndRdx(39)
28) --> Ripper==> Dmg(28)Dmg(29)Dmg(31)Acc(31)EndRdx(34)EndRdx(45)
30) --> Boxing==> Empty(30)
32) --> Tough==> DmgRes(32)DmgRes(33)DmgRes(33)EndRdx(33)
35) --> Throw Spines==> Dmg(35)Dmg(36)Dmg(36)Acc(36)EndRdx(37)EndRdx(50)
38) --> Cloak Of Darkness==> EndRdx(38)EndRdx(39)DefBuf(39)EndRdx(40)DefBuf(50)
41) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(41)EndRdx(42)Rechg(42)
44) --> Cloak Of Fear==> EndRdx(44)EndRdx(46)Acc(46)Acc(46)TH_DeBuf(48)
47) --> Build Up==> Rechg(47)Rechg(48)Rechg(48)
49) --> Oppressive Gloom==> Acc(49)Acc(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Critical Hit==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------


As youy can see, endreds are a part of life - but its all about taste and how your playstyle matches your endurance usage. For example, my tactic is to run in milliseconds after a tank does and mow everything down fast, frantic and furious.

A more lesiurely approach might not cost as much end and you can maybe lose some in the attacks.


Have fun.

Now off to my taskforce

Here's a snapshot of what I've done - soz don't have the time to make a copy on hero planner. I find it works very well in regards to end use, but as I said - will take comprehensive slotting and many levels.

Just a screen Shot of the Enhancement Screen * Sorry if it s a bit fuzzy

Just a word on choice of travel power - be aware that Dark Armour has no knockdown protection and it can be not only a pain, but potentially dangerous to go without it, espcially when your on your back and in the red..

Hover and scrapping may be a bit slow and for me, would slow down your damage output if you decided to use hover as your knockdown protection. So - thats why I choose Combat Jump > Super Jump > Acrobatics.

[ QUOTE ]
Spines/Dark even possible with out someone to keep your end up!? ... got a Dark Meele/Regen don't really want another /Regen.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is possible - just takes some very careful slotting - end reds in attacks and shields.

On my spines/da I run all the shields + COF and OG together with Acrobatics, Tough and Combat Jump.

Carrying a tray full of blues and will see you through some difficult times when comprehensive slotting hasn't been fully achieved.

But when its all ready to rock, its all good

Certainly Speed Boost will help out, but rest assured you won't be the only one asking for it or wanting RA either.

Incarnate Kin/Rad Def and
Lil' Green Man Spines/Dark Scrapper

This was a build to 45 that I posted on another thread. the toon is now lvl 50.

It works for me PvE very well and brings up Transference very often - useful in both Pve and PVP. I haven't slotted or chosen powers with the toon specifically for Pvp, but did go into the zone a few times and was pleasantly surprised at the toons ability.

For me, the most useful powers PvP were Repel, Transfusion, Transference, Siphon Speed, Siphon Power and tactics. All of these are easily fitted into most builds.

Repel - nice knockback for melle foes - keeps peeps from sneaking up from behind.

Transference - beautiful end drain - not much peeps can do without end

Transfusion - excellent melle heal and -regen - keep yourself healthy while going toe-to-toe.

Siphon Speed - slow them right down with multiple applications - also has a good pyschological effect - watch them try to run for it

Tactics - you know it makes sense for stalkers - also for the added accuracy for hit-based powers.

Siphon Power - weaken the foes and strengthen yourself - can't go wrong.

I'm not a dedicated PvPer and only venture into the zone when bored - but as I say - I've killed more PvP peeps than with any other toon with a build I designed for Pve

A couple of things - I got to 50 without any need for a travel power other than Inertial Reduction which served me well - very enjoyable to use.

I chose stamina for the toggles and becasue I attack frequently.

With the mobs slowed, drained and -regened fulcrum shift really makes your attacks viable in PvE and worth slotting well.

I found in PvP, Ko'ing was a slow process which meant continual debuffing during a prolonged fight
Later on in the build, I've added more recharge enhancements to siphon speed and range enhancements to cosmic burst and Defense Debuff in irradiate.

Anyway - thats my lot for now.


---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: Incarnate
Level: 45
Archetype: Defender
Primary: Kinetics
Secondary: Radiation Blast
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Transfusion==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Acc(3) Heal(5) Heal(5) Heal(9)
01) --> Neutrino Bolt==> Dmg(1) Dmg(15) Dmg(37) Acc(37)
02) --> Siphon Power==> Acc(2) Acc(9) Rechg(43)
04) --> Irradiate==> Dmg(4) Dmg(11) Dmg(13) Acc(15) DefDeBuf(25)
06) --> Siphon Speed==> Acc(6) Acc(7) Rechg(7) Rechg(11)
08) --> Increase Density==> DmgRes(8) DmgRes(19) DmgRes(19)
10) --> Electron Haze==> Dmg(10) Dmg(17) Dmg(31) Acc(37)
12) --> Speed Boost==> EndMod(12) EndMod(13) EndMod(17)
14) --> Swift==> Run(14)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16)
18) --> Inertial Reduction==> Jump(18) Jump(21) Jump(34)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(23)
22) --> Assault==> EndRdx(22) EndRdx(23)
24) --> Tactics==> TH_Buf(24) TH_Buf(25) EndRdx(31) TH_Buf(39)
26) --> Transference==> Acc(26) Acc(27) Rechg(27) Rechg(29) Rechg(29) EndMod(31)
28) --> Cosmic Burst==> Dmg(28) Dmg(40) Dmg(40) Acc(40)
30) --> Repel==> EndRdx(30)
32) --> Fulcrum Shift==> Acc(32) Acc(33) Acc(33) Rechg(33) Rechg(34) Rechg(34)
35) --> Neutron Bomb==> Dmg(35) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Acc(36)
38) --> Hasten==> Rechg(38) Rechg(39) Rechg(39)
41) --> Mass Hypnosis==> Acc(41) Acc(42) Rechg(42) Rechg(42) Sleep(43) Sleep(43)
44) --> Mind Over Body==> DmgRes(44) DmgRes(45) DmgRes(45) EndRdx(45)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Vigilance==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------

I agree with above posts.

Here's a few tidbits gained from my experiences of tanking;

a) Corner pulling. Especially useful when there is a room with more than one spawn closely together. The running in tactic here is likely to aggro both groups, so I'd advise against it in this instance. What I do, is to taunt a boss in one of the groups and run around a corner, or behind an obstacle - such as a crate, box, pillar etc - and wait.

b) Sometimes there will be single spawns and it is viable to jump into the centre of this mob and let your taunt aura + taunt keep the mobs focused on you.

c) A tip when fighting mobs like Nemasis - face the mob group away from the rest of the team and encourage the team, espcially the more vulnerable members, to attack from behind.

d) Always be aware of your aggro limit. There's no point surviving if the rest of your team has not. Aggro only what you and your team can handle, together.

All this depends on your playstyle and of course, you could decide to pursue a completely different approach to tanking. All of these approaches are viable and useful in different ways.

The main thing is to enjoy your experience

Isn't it nice how friendly, intelligent, mature and just plain nice people are on CoX?

Orignally, when I looked at this thread, I wasn't interseted and moved on. What made me post was the developing 'stuff' that was flying around and made me read on.

For me, the thread title did sound a little boastful, but no problem - whatever floats yer boat Those that would help out, I assumed would reply - the task-forces would start and maybe later Raz would post something with an update on how his 'marathon' (which is how I see it) - was proceeding.

Again, no problem.

If there is a problem, I think its always wise to avoid direct accusation and moderate language use, always aware of the potential to offend.

Failing that, just don't post. Saves time and energy all round.

Your absoulutely right - I run about in Cloak Of Darkness so much, I forget its optional

Here - without CoD

A big difference

Thanks

Actually though, the scrapper could be my 4th 50, if I remain loyal to him and stop alting

Just been on test for the first time since update and..... wow

Big Thanks to Defiant peeps helping me to reach 50 on my kinetic defender: INCARNATE

Dinged 50 with sg Forgotten Warriors and those in coalition with..

Shout out to
Lucius Terra - Darkpath - Eclief - Jack Kerrigan - Osiron - Luna Wisp and Mephyt

And all you others I teamed with - big thanks to you too