Hasten or Aid Self?


Captain_Morgan_EU

 

Posted

Post says it all - or some of it.

I have an ice/nrg tanker - current level 20 at the moment. However, I have one more choice for a pool power - ideally I would get both, but alas I have to choose!

I have Swift - going to get health and stamina

I have boxing and tough - also going to get weave

I have combat jump and super jump


I've already solicited advice with different results

Hasten - because my attacks recycle faster etc
Aid Self - because you can use it effectively with 2 interrupt enh

Some info - my tankers are not generally attacking tankers, at least not as the first priority - I build them for team tanking and survivability - damage output is a side issue for me; I will fit this in after and only after I have reached my primary objective.

My main use for Hasten if I were to get it therefore, would mainly be for the faster recharging of hoarfrost and other defensive powers, rather than for faster attacks.

My aim for aid self would be to be better able to survive all the of attention of the mobs around me. And I understand that the heal of aid self is reflected by the health of the toon? So for tankers, aid self would be good numbers?

Other opinions I've recieved;

Aid self is a waste as it has precursors - doesn't matter for me - I'm thinking long term and don't regard boxing, or swift/hurdle/health, aid-other or stimulant etc - as 'wasted powers' - so thats not an issue.



Anyway - thoughts please with accompanying arguments if possible.


 

Posted

Ooh, a toughie this one.

On mine, I went Hasten and SS for initial travel power, with CJ at 30 (might be getting SJ later, don't know yet).

Hasten definitely increases your survivability, as hoarfrost and energy absorption are back that much quicker, which makes you a) harder to kill, and b) able to stack EA for extra defence/endurance recovery.

From looking at Dr.Rock's handy Damage spreadsheet doohickey, you get the most survivability from having CJ, tough, weave and aid self, compared to CJ, tough, weave and hasten. My initial thought, to ditch tough and weave and get hasten and aidself was much worse in terms of survivable incoming damage per second.

Only concern for me would be that tough, weave, and aidself all ideally need lots of slots (tough 3end, 3dam res, weave 3end, 3 def, aidself 2intred, 2 heal, 2 recharge) that would impact your ability to slot any of your attacks other than ET and TF.

Hmmm. Icicles would complicate things - as it is another 6 slotter, like Energy Absorption, but could give you some nice damage output, while you focus on taunting.

Might have to rework my build a little now...


 

Posted

Drop fighting pool, get both hasten and aid self


 

Posted

Hasten, hoarfrost being up most of the time makes a massive difference to survivability.


 

Posted

As far as I am concerned it comes down to number of slots. Tough, Weave and Aid Self provide better surviviability than hasten. Weave I think puts you at the defence cap and tough gives you some S/L Res. Aidself is better than hoarfrost in terms of amount healed and how often and slotting 2 int into it gives a reliable heal even in combat.

SLots are the issue as although you dont need to slot boxing/kick and aid other/stimulant Tough, Weave and Aidself both ideally want 6 slots. As you also want to slot up your armpurs it means you will struggle for slots in attacks. If you are willing to only 6 slot Whirling Hands, ET and TF then go for Aidself if not go for Hasten.


 

Posted

Why is everyone saying that tough needs 3 slots for endurance reduction? It's not that costly to run, especially for a tanker who isn't chaining large attacks the whole time.


Defiant 50�s: Generalissimo, Righteous Bob, Splortch, Brutus Cayuga
Union 50's: Chimera Obscura, Diet Anthracite, Grim Proctologist, Puny Little Minion, Raging Bitumen

In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!

 

Posted

True you can get away with 2 slots dependent on other toggles.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Why is everyone saying that tough needs 3 slots for endurance reduction? It's not that costly to run, especially for a tanker who isn't chaining large attacks the whole time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tough and Weave are about 0.30 endurance per second each, the same as Temp Invulnerability and Unyielding. Most other tanker toggles are 0.20 endurance per second .

I don't know why people think there are worth 3 slotting for end reduction. Surely more endurance reductions in attacks is more practical, as attacks if used as much as possible, cost about 0.8-1.0 endurance per second each.

As for the original poster... Hasten is well worth it for an Ice Tank as it increases the recharge of EA, Hoarfrost and Hibernate. Increasing the recharge of EA is both an increase in survivability and an increase in end recovery.

You are close to capping your defence with the powers you suggest ( 39% without EA ) so I think Aid Self is probably overkill. It will make you tougher than Hasten though. Although I believe it costs quite a bit of end to run. So it comes down to a more offensive build with Hasten or a more defensive with Aid Self.

For the record I've found that Ice tanks are pretty tough without the fighting pool. I have Hasten and Combat Jumping in addition to all but Permafrost from the set.


@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.

 

Posted

A lot can depend on how attacks are slotted when deciding on slotting of other powers. I only have one slot of endurance reduction in Tough (same as all my other toggles) but I do have my attacks slotted for endurance reduction as doing damage is not a priority for me whereas efficiently holding aggro is.


Defiant 50�s: Generalissimo, Righteous Bob, Splortch, Brutus Cayuga
Union 50's: Chimera Obscura, Diet Anthracite, Grim Proctologist, Puny Little Minion, Raging Bitumen

In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!

 

Posted

I tried to make a build for my ice/fire with fighting pool, leaping, aidself and fitness - it would be incredibly defensively sound, but also incredibly dull.

Sticking with my aoe of doomsicle build. I'll die more, but I'll have fun doing it Might get aidself though, although no rush.


 

Posted

My two inf on this one,

Hasten: It's priceless the extra recharge is just handy for so many things so I cant reccomend it enough.

Aid Self: I am not a fan, but and its a big but my tank builds all tend to be more of a balance between Aggro management and mushing stoof. For a defensive minded tank I really can see the benefit though the need to 6 slot worries me as I suspect better uses can be found.

All in all I would go for Hasten if you can only make room for one of them but its one of those debates that is alot to do with play style I think.

Hope that helps

Cheers,

White


 

Posted

Thanks for the input guys - very interesting.

Still not sure though.

Ideally UI would like BOTH Hatsen and Aid-self and perhaps dropping tough and weave might be an option.. hmm

Then again, at level 20 I feel weak - dropping tough and weave might be viable once I have EA and seeing how effective that is and its reharge speed. Also, I guess, once I have SOs, my view of the need for aid-self might drop in reflection of my survivability.

Still, its not an easy one for me. This is the first time I've even considered aid-self for a tanker!

I've got a free respec on the toon, so that will leave me with options if I mess up.

Thinking about it, dropping thte fighting pool actually makes more sense the more I think about it - get both aid self and hasten - probably gives more defensive survivability than tough and weave together..... I'm warming to the idea.


 

Posted

For an Ice tank according to Dr Rocks comparison program Tough and Weave give more survivability that aid self. Aid Self gives more than hasten so best survivability is Tough, Weave and Aid Self.


 

Posted

EA dramatically increases how tough your ice tank will feel, same with SOs slotted. I've only got hasten currently on mine, and happily solo on the one under Invincible, and tank against +4s in a team situation - using EA, hoarfrost and the damage mitigation of aoe'ing the hell out of things to survive.

Personally, I'd ditch the fighting pool. It's numerically superior, but hasten, EA, aidself and hoarfrost, with hibernate for the really rocky moments will be more than good enough to tank sensible opposition. (i.e. if you are tanking +5s, turn down the rep!)


 

Posted

Tough really doesn't add that much. Weave is the reason to go for the fighting pool and tbh 3 powers is an expensive way to get 7.8% defence.


@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.

 

Posted

id of dropped leap pool if i was happy with the lack of offensive capability as well from all those pool powers.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

I thought I read somewhere that 6slotting frozen armour gives more extra defense than weave for an Ice Tank.

Also remember that aid self will help with all types of damage unlike tough, and 3 powers just to get weave might be used better elsewhere depending on your build.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I thought I read somewhere that 6slotting frozen armour gives more extra defense than weave for an Ice Tank.

[/ QUOTE ]

not true, weave is +def all so it stacks with all types of def now and last 3 slots in FA would gain you very little versus smash and lethal only.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Drop fighting pool, get both hasten and aid self.

Defence will always have its "woa! w.t.f mate" moments where everything suddenly manages a hit.

And if Hoarfrost is still recharging, Aid Self is there for abusing. *wink*