I'm sure I teamed with Peasant with Sword in my early levels, I found being tanker was easy to lead from the front whilst taking the Alpha strike, but then relying on a defender or troller to organise from there. At 22 your just hitting the grail that are So's which make surviving sooo much easier, however I disagree with the faster you die the better you play, I often found that if I took too much aggro and died it would pretty quickly turn into a team wipe. Then again I took every faceplant as a personal affront after all I'm not a squishy blaster (Damn the drop after unstoppable).
Teammates deaths always hurt as well, but there's always that blapper who piles in taking far more aggro than is possible to take that you really can do nothing about.
However I agree with you on teaming with tankers, at first I found it a really difficult concept as a lot of people would aggro more spawns than was possible to tank, however as you continue to level the people you team with are better and more experienced (thanks to Stone of Paragon, Jessica Raven and All the guys in the Armoured Core who's advice was unlimiting and essential) I found that with the limit of people you can aggro at 5 (please correct me if I'm wrong) a second tank was a perfect teammate alongside a Def or troll.
All in all I loved my tanker I found nothing better than to be surrounded by a group+3's and to be screaming out come and have a go if you think you're hard enough or is that the best you got?), whilst your team mates are picking off the rest to their hearts content.
Ravenhart Lev 50 (Inv/War Mace)
Generally I don't find a problem teaming with another tanker, and especialy not if its someone I know fairly well. I've also teamed with the peeps Buckman mentions and because people know what they're doing it's fine.
Against an AV like Infernal I'd always prefer to have more than one tank on the team anyway, one for Infernal and one for the demons. Opinions may vary though.
I also agree with Buckman that you really don't want to be the first to go down, though sometimes it does happen, because you're giving up the aggro as soon as you do and the rest of the team may follow quickly. Tanking is great fun, but it doesn't have to be suicidal [img]/uk/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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...however I disagree with the faster you die the better you play...
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I didn't mean to say faster but firster [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] What I meant was: as long as you're alive everyone should also be alive. Ideally noone should faceplant. But I like to play it at hard difficulty so occasionally you run into something you can't cope with. (If you and your team never faceplant you're playing at a too easy level.)
And as a tank it's real easy to be the last man standing. I only try to point out that when that happens you've done something wrong.
(peasant with sword is currently stuck at lvl 37, I've gotten a little bored with him)
For me, its always tempting to hang back on the first sally into battle - when you have more than one tanker on the team. Just to see what the other tankers are capable of and how they tank. Also, the thing about tanking as a pair is that sometimes the better tanker will be in the red sooner than the scranker, simply becasue the better tanker has all the aggro.
Always good to tank on a team with a fellow decent tanker, or one you know. Nothing worse than being on a team with 2 tankers trying to compete and playing 'who can grab the most aggro'.... fun for all the rest of the team there...... not [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Sometimes 2 tanks can be a problem as both try to establish dominance and end up getting in each other's way or pulling the team apart. I'm a big believer in moving onto the next spawn when the current one is still kicking, but only just. It gives me a few second to gather up the agro before the rest of the team comes in.
Usually a team will fall into line quite readily with this, but if there's another tank and he works the same way then occassionally the two tanks head off to different spawns and the team gets divided, which can be a problem.
I work to the rule that the tank who can take the most abuse/can gather agro the best gets to lead, but sometimes its not always readily apparent. I don't mind playing 2nd fiddle to a more powerful tank, but I adamantly refuse to scrank. Just not going to happen, but if the tanks fight shoulder to shoulder it rarely seems to be a problem.
Best twin tank experience I ever had. Was on a fairly incompetent PuG, there was a couple of good people, but the restwere largely a waste of space (worst empath ever on the team) and they managed to agro Nemesis spawns. Me and this Ice tank found yourselves surrounded by 8 +3 Nem bosses; 4 Warhulks, 4 fakes and associated minions and despite our best efforts the rest of the team wiped.
I kept shouting for them to run, but no one went, so it came down to me and the Ice and the most herculean battle ensued that just went on and on whilst the rest of the team went to hospital, got rezzed, came back and found the pair of us both still standing.
A nice moment.
(\_/)
(O.O) Bunny: Our time is coming
(> <)
Tank with other tanks as little as possible, learn how to tank from other tanks from the perspective of all your squishies and then in your knowledge of how all your ATs should interact go nuts at people who only level one toon at a time and are on their very first toon and know nothing about other players perspectives or requirements when they interact badly. People are meant to be playing heroes they should be cooperating for maximum safety. This is my way.
Then on cov when you play a villain do the opposite, be the n00b, get people debt by your actions because you dont care as your not playing a hero. Your supposed to be evil and maybe your character is supposed to be the dumb minion. This is also my way.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
spent most of my time in a double tank team and it can work out well.
Decide who is alpha tank and stand back to clean up any missed up aggro, the only time you get into bother is when you clear a spawn and then go seperate ways and aggro 2 more.
Also for AVs try tag team taunt tanking, one tank taunts the AV and takes aggro when their down to quarter health the other tank takes over..the AV is constantly aggroed and no face plant, make sure your auras and taunt are of a roughly equal level or the AV might just keep pounding the original tank.
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Tank with other tanks as little as possible, learn how to tank from other tanks from the perspective of all your squishies and then in your knowledge of how all your ATs should interact go nuts at people who only level one toon at a time and are on their very first toon and know nothing about other players perspectives or requirements when they interact badly.
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So in a hypothetical situation where a newcomer to the game, who's playing their first character (a tank), is in the same team as you (also on a tank) you wouldn't give them any benefit of the doubt and would instead "go nuts" at them if they didn't meet your requirements for how a tank should be played?
Defiant 50�s: Generalissimo, Righteous Bob, Splortch, Brutus Cayuga
Union 50's: Chimera Obscura, Diet Anthracite, Grim Proctologist, Puny Little Minion, Raging Bitumen
In Soviet Russia, mission farm you!
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...go nuts at people who only level one toon ... when they interact badly.
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So in a hypothetical situation where a newcomer to the game, who's playing their first character (a tank), is in the same team as you (also on a tank) you wouldn't give them any benefit of the doubt and would instead "go nuts" at them if they didn't meet your requirements for how a tank should be played?
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I normally don't go nuts at people. But I've come around some very irritating people in my 20s who tried to run the show but didn't have a clue of how other ATs worked. And if you asked a little further alot of those nitwits were on their first toon. I pay people all the respect they deserve but sometimes you're talking against a wall.
-Why do blasters always want to open the fight? Be it a snipe or an AoE attack.
-Phantom Army can cause more destruction then it does good.
-Dimension Shift anybody? Why am I hitting nothing?
-A scrapper is not a tank.
-A runner with rad auras causes alot of aggro.
-Dispersion bubble can cause a bubbler to attrack much aggro.
-Please another Hurricane on my tightly packed group of enemies.
-And who oh who invented pulling?
Some general annoyances.
I was teamed with another tank last night. Ok, it was a person I know fairly well in game and have teamed with a lot but as they were a Stone Tank and could take more punishment than my Inv tank the general tactic was Stone tank in and grab aggro, me in a few seconds later to releive the aggro on them. I've got no problem with playing backup to a better tank. Some team combinations are better than others, but to be honest if I know someone well enough I'll team with whatever toon they want to play and see if it works.
And of course you can level one toon and understand the perspective of other ATs. Read the other AT forums here, discuss it in your SG forums if you have them, pay attention and learn when you team.
Oh, and don't get me started on pulling.
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-Dispersion bubble can cause a bubbler to attrack much aggro.
[/ QUOTE ]....dispersion bubble is a PBAoE +def buff, which causes no aggro...
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Tank with other tanks as little as possible, learn how to tank from other tanks from the perspective of all your squishies and then in your knowledge of how all your ATs should interact go nuts at people who only level one toon at a time and are on their very first toon and know nothing about other players perspectives or requirements when they interact badly.
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So in a hypothetical situation where a newcomer to the game, who's playing their first character (a tank), is in the same team as you (also on a tank) you wouldn't give them any benefit of the doubt and would instead "go nuts" at them if they didn't meet your requirements for how a tank should be played?
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Actually no, i only go nuts at people late game where i am like "have you ever seen a tanker before?". After the mid twenties anyone could be settling in on a toon ok and have the general idea. I do find players who have every AT play that much better than those that dont. Did a TF with a guy who had taunt but no unyielding but was new and i liked him alot. I have done a tf with a tanker who had no aura and no taunt and it was his second tank and i died alot. As my Rad defender telling people to save the anchor to last in lower levels and them not listening or getting the idea is okay in the late levels after having to tell people 3 times i am going to quit the team. Im either going to get to play effectively or I am not playing.
I do think tanks should be point tank as much as possible to gain as much knowledge as possible, having someone doing the tanking for you all the time is being carried and should you double tank either one is point due to his/her level versus mobs and experience or you could be taking turns at herding. For a tanker to of never be point tank is to be someone whose made a toon for the sake of making a toon.
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-Why do blasters always want to open the fight? Be it a snipe or an AoE attack.
-Phantom Army can cause more destruction then it does good.
-Dimension Shift anybody? Why am I hitting nothing?
-A scrapper is not a tank.
-A runner with rad auras causes alot of aggro.
-Dispersion bubble can cause a bubbler to attrack much aggro.
-Please another Hurricane on my tightly packed group of enemies.
-And who oh who invented pulling?
Some general annoyances.
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When it comes to the blasters opening a fight if a tanker has no taunt then its acceptable, i find flyby tank maging that can be done by defenders the best for pulling and herding if the tank has no taunt but only then. Tanks with taunt can pull all of the time. All of the other stuff apart from the dispersion bubble power is welcome to the frustrations of playing a tank. The runner with rad aura is why many use a boss as an anchor as well as its normally a boss that gets killed last, people seeing the green aura around a foe is a signal to kill it first normally -
"i have been told to leave that one to last but no cant help it must kill....must kill it first!"
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And of course you can level one toon and understand the perspective of other ATs. Read the other AT forums here, discuss it in your SG forums if you have them, pay attention and learn when you team.
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Ok by that some people can but in my experience alot dont.
"Please dont use gale after i have just herded because it unherds mobs and can cause other people to get hit"
*Runs of herds next lot and the first move from the storm defender is GUESS!*
Some people are a waste of time talking to.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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-Dispersion bubble can cause a bubbler to attrack much aggro.
[/ QUOTE ]....dispersion bubble is a PBAoE +def buff, which causes no aggro...
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Did I go wrong on this one? The other day I teamed with a Force Field defender. (and I love to be on the receiving end of bubbles) During our teaming he got this bubble. And after that he went down alot more times then before. Maybee it was Repulsion Field instead but I can remember seeing the green shield buff in my buff-tray.
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-Dispersion bubble can cause a bubbler to attrack much aggro.
[/ QUOTE ]....dispersion bubble is a PBAoE +def buff, which causes no aggro...
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Did I go wrong on this one? The other day I teamed with a Force Field defender. (and I love to be on the receiving end of bubbles) During our teaming he got this bubble. And after that he went down alot more times then before. Maybee it was Repulsion Field instead but I can remember seeing the green shield buff in my buff-tray.
[/ QUOTE ]Dispersion field causes no aggro. Repulsion field and force bubble do.
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Dispersion field causes no aggro. Repulsion field and force bubble do.
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As well as Disruption Field if you team with a sonic defender/controller.
CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>
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Dispersion field causes no aggro. Repulsion field and force bubble do.
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As well as Disruption Field if you team with a sonic defender/controller.
[/ QUOTE ]Well, yes, and loads of other powers as well, but this was about FF [img]/uk/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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Dispersion field causes no aggro. Repulsion field and force bubble do.
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As well as Disruption Field if you team with a sonic defender/controller.
[/ QUOTE ]Well, yes, and loads of other powers as well, but this was about FF [img]/uk/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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Yes MaX, I can read. But I was wondering whether he might have mixed them up given that DF is often anchored on tanks. And if you want to be really pedantic, it's Dispersion Bubble [img]/uk/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/uk/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
CoX 50s: <ill/rad> <ice/ice> <fire/kin> <grav/sonic> <ice/storm> <earth/kin> <kin/elec> <cold/psy> <thugs/dark> <fire/dark> <dark/elec> <night widow> <EM/ninj> <mind/icy>
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-Phantom Army can cause more destruction then it does good.
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Oi, oi! stop the fight ladies! [img]/uk/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]. PA more destruction than it does good? ROFL Surely not when a proper troller is at charge
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-Phantom Army can cause more destruction then it does good.
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Oi, oi! stop the fight ladies! [img]/uk/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]. PA more destruction than it does good? ROFL Surely not when a proper troller is at charge
[/ QUOTE ]That's why there's a CAN, instead of DOES [img]/uk/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
Playing a tanker upto 22 now and having had much fun some things wonder me.
As a tanker you can easily be the teamleader [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] everyone listens, haven't had that on my other toons.
You get into groups very easily because groups can do without every AT, but they always feel they need a tanker.
If you're playing well you're always the first to go down [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] the better you play the firster you go [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
And last: I've found it very hard to play with another tanker on the team.(and even harder with two other) It always seems to get messy and chaotic. How do you guys do that? Do you make choices as for whom to be the Major or Minor tank? Or maybe one tank with and one without taunt aura? Or something else? Isn't a second or third tank on a team just an underpowered scrapper?