Shockwave_EU

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It is, but to say everything about PVp is now bad is lying as there are good changes there too, no matter what you class as good, but the doomsayers just wont admit it, they are so busy slagging it off.

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That all depends on what people class as good.
For me i have not found anything good about the changes and as such have hung up my pvp toons until more changes are done.

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But it makes no difference,lol it couldnt be worse than it was as nobody was PVPing anyway!!

Thats the whole point. You and others moaning about how you have hung up your pvp toons is aa mute point as you obviously werent before as PVP was dead before all of this.

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Pvp was far from dead before i13 there was alot of very active pvpers myself included, the changes have shown that the pvp community as a whole dont like it simple fact, like rent said i have not hung up my cape as i have been forced to return to the pve game and once these arena changes are sorted and depending what they are like im sure i will be back pvping, zone pvp is just a no go for me now until its sorted out.

Alot of the pvp lot have gone its true but there is still alot of us left waiting in the shadows until what was broken is once again fixed .

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It is, but to say everything about PVp is now bad is lying as there are good changes there too, no matter what you class as good, but the doomsayers just wont admit it, they are so busy slagging it off.

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That all depends on what people class as good.
For me i have not found anything good about the changes and as such have hung up my pvp toons until more changes are done.

I did make an ice brute in the beta and tbh i found it ok but a few tweeks would be needed for the set to be a active power pick

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I agree with others, Posi is basically saying "OK we did it wrong but I can't admit it so I'll ignore it and introduce this so we can make it pre-I13" which in my mind says "So, Posi, why didn't you look over the changes you made?"

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This announcement is only possible now because the Dev team knew in advance that some of our PvP community would not like the changes, and would choose not to adapt to them. When you make changes on this scale there are always going to be existing players who are unhappy, and it simply makes sense to give them the option to continue playing the game they enjoy if that is possible.

The team are committed to making PvP in City of Heroes appeal to a larger audience, and they're committed to making improvements to Zone, Arena and Base PvP. The pre-Issue 13 PvP system isn't viable for the feature revamps on the way. Making pre-issue 13 PvP available via the Arena is a relatively simple thing to do, and makes sense for those who enjoyed that form of PvP.

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This is all well and good, but zone PvP isn't getting dealt with.

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Zone PvP will be addressed, it's already been mentioned that they have plans for a revamp.

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My point was if they don't think they had enough people helping state side then there's plenty over here. Also telling the players about what they went testing would also help..... Something they'll do next time apparently

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I think you've missed the most important part of what Ex Libris was saying in that post. The lack of testers was referring to early betas (one of which we did try including EU community in). For Issue 13 they brought in a significant number of PvP'ers: they knew they'd need them. What happened is that the feedback they received from the majority was effectively unusable and got in the way of being able to iterate changes.

I've seen from these forums that many of the changes made during beta were received positively. Many of those changes were sourced from the community members who took the time to provide high quality feedback. If all of the PvP community invited to I13 Closed Beta had taken that approach, then the number of iterations and improvements to the new system would quite probably have been higher.

It wasn't a lack of numbers that was the problem. It was a lack of testers willing to work with the dev team instead of throwing insults and demands. It is precisely the sort of things that I have removed from this thread (and some that I haven't but instead chosen to respond to) that hampered the development process for the Issue 13 PvP Revamp, and will continue to hamper the ongoing process of improving PvP in CoH.

The dev team want to communicate with the PvP community. Effective communication is a two way street, however: the PvP community needs to step up as well, and show that they're willing to communicate with the devs in a mature and reasonable manner. Throwing insults and responding to the dev team giving an option to play pre-Issue 13 PvP by making accusations like those in this thread does this community no good at all.

The folks at NCNC are stepping up on PvP and they're committing to improving PvP and bringing it to a larger audience. They're committing to revamping existing features and giving everyone a better PvP experience. It will take some time, but they're willing to work with you. The question is: will the PvP community step up as well, and work with the devs? Insults and accusations get you nothing. Communicating effectively just might get you a whole lot.

Edit to add: The community taking the initiative to put together a Test ladder and work together on testing and communicating is a grand start.

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Dont tar everyone with the same brush GR there have been many many good posts on these forums about the new pvp and alot of time has been spent testing the changes. While i agree there has been some negative comments and insults about it at the end of the day it is to be expected after all its human nature.

Maybe next time such huge changes to pvp are made the EU pvp community could be included from the start in the testing of it, while we dont have the numbers of the usa i bet we could provide better communication with the devs from the start unlike how its been done this time.

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Shockwave, what are you agreeing with there? I'm curious.

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The disadvantage a toon made this way would have over one made or already made in the normal way.

I left out your bit about content as i cant be seen to agree wit hyou to much you know

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Oh for god sake pls no, SUPER HEROES DONT GET THERE HAIR DONE!!

When will it end next thing you know are toons will be married living in a 3up 2down house just outside the city with 2.4 kids and dog, washing there cars on a sunday and cutting the dam grass.

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Thor

Spiderman

Nuff said!

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Yes but i dont think i have ever seen spiderman rushing of down to the salon in full costume to get his hair done. Its a computer game not real life you know, an escape from the real world suppose you would like to see your toons pop down to tesco express for a pint of milk and a mars bar as well

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As I was running into Atlas Park City Hall last night the activist outside said something that made me do a double take.

Now, my mind may be playing tricks on me, but am I right that the activist often gives clues about upcoming st00f? If so then GG may be happy to see what I saw last night...

"The Tailor needs a salon! Come on, people! Who doesn't need stripey hair?

So, do we think that we're going to be able to wash all the hair gel from our characters' hair soon?

If so - I hope we'll be able to keep the styles that we currently have too, as I'm not a big fan of animated hair. (But I understand there are those that are fans )

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Oh for god sake pls no, SUPER HEROES DONT GET THERE HAIR DONE!!

When will it end next thing you know are toons will be married living in a 3up 2down house just outside the city with 2.4 kids and dog, washing there cars on a sunday and cutting the dam grass.

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oh stop moawning already

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Not moaning just point out a concern over a silly thing like getting your hair done in full spandex and cape in a computer game

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And they have even laid of coh devs which is never a good sign.

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Um ... sorry? Source? Because you could not be any more wrong on this. This time last year when NCsoft was in the process of buying 100% rights to teh City of Heroes franchise the CoH dev team consisted of 14 people. I'm not sure what the number is today, but I can tell you that it's over 30 people.

Positron has recently indicated that major updates to the game are on the way, supported by this growth in the team. 2008 has very much been a year of building the blocks for the future development of City of Heroes, including possible graphical updates. Quoting Matt 'Positron' Miller from a recent TenTonHammer interview:

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"We’ve hired some new programmers to look into sprucing up our graphics," Matt answered. "The engine we use is actually very powerful, but we have been conscious of people’s machines and minimum specs on the game for a while now, so we haven’t really seen the true glory of what it is capable of. But I think it’s safe to say yes, players can expect to see graphical improvements."

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City of Heroes is a strong franchise, with an established community. This is a title that we're committed to for the long term.

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Could it just be that the guy means the red names from here and the usa forums that have gone "mods" an easy mistake to make for some.

Something to keep in mind before jumping on the guy.

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And then you take away their ability to use IO sets, putting them at a tactical disadvantage against existing players, who have had to create PvP characters from scratch, and who can now have an exen easier time of it, due to dual builds.

That about cover it?

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This^

I shall call mine ....The smurf cave

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As I was running into Atlas Park City Hall last night the activist outside said something that made me do a double take.

Now, my mind may be playing tricks on me, but am I right that the activist often gives clues about upcoming st00f? If so then GG may be happy to see what I saw last night...

"The Tailor needs a salon! Come on, people! Who doesn't need stripey hair?

So, do we think that we're going to be able to wash all the hair gel from our characters' hair soon?

If so - I hope we'll be able to keep the styles that we currently have too, as I'm not a big fan of animated hair. (But I understand there are those that are fans )

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Oh for god sake pls no, SUPER HEROES DONT GET THERE HAIR DONE!!

When will it end next thing you know are toons will be married living in a 3up 2down house just outside the city with 2.4 kids and dog, washing there cars on a sunday and cutting the dam grass.

See you around protagonist, i shall miss spaming you tells about joining a lrsf

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Positron has made a post that may interest some:

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If you haven’t tried PvP in a while you might find some new changes to the system enticing. I encourage anyone who has wanted to try the system to give it a chance. To those of you who were happy with how the old system worked, I have some good news for you. We have designed an Arena Options system that will allow the user to create a unique experience using some aspects of the pre-Issue 13 PvP along with the newly introduced changes. This will allow for more dynamic user controlled experiences to occur in the Arena environment. We expect to have this on the training room very soon.

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How about just holding your hands up and saying "sorry all i messed up pvp but maybe this will help until i can fix it"

You could find that would go down better with the players after all everyone makes mistakes.

While this is ok i would still rather they fixed what we have ,arena pvp is all well and good but EU side most pvp is done in the zones.

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Only had a small tester in RV with my pve build on ultimate damz and gotta agree i LIKE the changes. I wont ever be a hardcore pvper but least now im more inclined to pop in once in a while.

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Think you will find that you will be the new pvp hard core along with others like you seeing as how most if not all the "old" hard core have left it

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Anyone else notice anything odd either with regard to the performance of their build post Issue 13 or other changes that resemble I13 PvP changes in the PvE game?.

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Oh i do hope so it may mean they will have to change it back

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This might not be popular but I like the new changes.

I play a Force field / Archery defender on Union in RV alot, for a very long time I've had to rely on many underhanded tricks for kills (pillboxes, heavies, longbow mobs), or just be satisfied with being really hard to kill in my personal force field.

Tonight even with the heroes outnumbered I went out and got 5 kills in about half an hour, all brutes and stalkers, before now I could have spent a good couple of minutes shooting a petless mastermind to kill them and now I can go out there with my non-billion influence build and make a tangible difference.

The pvp changes get a thumbs up from me.

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Proves my point about pvp now being given to people like you on a plate.

Now that was abit of a shock tbh, looks good

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Not wanting to, or not having the time to farm yourself to glory doesn't make someone lazy, some people simply dislike that style of play.

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Its not about farming yourself to glory, both my pvp toons were good before i spent the inf on them in the old system you didnt need a pimped out toon to be good at pvp.

IOs and sets dont make for a good pvper time, learning and skill does, so when i say "lazy" what is mean is the people who would go into RV with a dam good pve build thinking that will rock only to find they dont then moan about it.

This does happen as its what happened to me first time i went into RV, my blaster was great at pve and dam was i [censored] when i got whooped over and over again, now from this point it goes one of two ways.

1. That player thinks right im not haveing that done to me again and then spends time and effort into making sure it doesnt, this is donw by hard work and messing around with your build not by who has the better sets as i can tell you i didnt have abit of inf to start with my pvp toons all started with SOs and IOs. Or

2.That player thinks to himself this is just to hard how am i suppose to match a stalker who i cant see when im standing there, everything is over powered its not fair.

Now to me the pvp system has been changed to please the moaning voice on these and the usa forums, these people dont want to take time to learn how to pvp they will just cry out "not fair" i cant afford xyz IO so i cant pvp everyone who has them can only beat me as they have pimped out toons and they farm......WRONG they beat you as they have spent months and months fighitng in pvp learning how to play there toon in that enviroment.

The new system has now given these players pvp on a plate, anyone who has a pimped out build has been shafted by these changes. PVP will now come down to who can make the new fotm and i will happen but when it does all the "its not fair " crowd will back o nthe forums moaning again that xyz is over powered until pvp will just become a waste of time in the game.

At the end of the day its about skill not IOs they use to just help you when fighting other pimped out toons, these new changes have been done to get more into pvp but i just dont see it happing its still early days though and if loads more do take part that will be great news, but these new players must learn to pvp and if they get beaten and they will make sure you keep at it dont go of moaning about IOs and farming as that will no longer be any reason to be beaten.

I have tried to pvp with these changes and while my maxed out toons are no longer a shade of there former selfs i can still win but its just not any fun any more .

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Shockwave" its a total waste

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I am not!! i take offence to this sir i demand my revenge on the field of battle

Have it 5 slotted on all toons than can use them, as rent said the return is not worth wasting the slot

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I guess I am the only one who thinks that having posts about I14 and even I15 the day after I13 is launched means I13 is quite poor overall, despite some efforts to put lipstick on the pig.

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Lol, think the pig needs more than lipstick it needs a whole make over

The problem is pvp has been changed for those who dont want to max out there toons. I like many other spent loads of time and inf getting both my stalker and blaster to the best they can be but now this works against them.

Another problem is a blaster standing still in a pvp zone should not be able to take a AS from a stalker and still be standing with almost half health, this takes away the whole point of a stalker and the one advantage they had, this new system to seems to reward the lazy and the cry babys, you know the ones who come on here moaning that stalkers are over powered and its not fair that they AS me.

The other side of this most blasters are now a bunch of girls in pvp there damage is just a joke, again rewarding those who dont want to put time in to inprove there pvp skills after they have been killed by a blaster back in i12

There to many things wrong with these changes i could write for ages about them but the main issue is pvp has been dumbed down for the lazy, there is still no balance as what was once strong is weak and what was weak is now strong so the scales have tiped the other way.

Im sure it wont be long though for anyone who is still trying to pvp to work out what is the new fotm and once they do i bet a billion pounds that people will be back on here moaning again that xyz is over powered.

Im sure in the long run some of the people just wont be happy until pvp is reduced to standing in rv slapping each other around the face with a wet lettuce.

Yes ok this post is not positive but im one unhappy pvper now.... actualy can i even call myself that now as until some more work is done on this system i wont be pvping.

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sold all my old base salvage for 60 million Inf

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60 mill!!!!! was your base just full of salvage racks or something as we have ton in are base and i doubt that even all sold together it would make 60 million.

Oh yeh what do i think of i13 well...... those who have been reading my forum posts over the last few weeks will already know but to sum up Meh

I would like to comment on this but when i went into RV the first time it was empty.

I gave it another go abit later and aside from the tank and blaster farming turrets its was empty.

So only comment i can give is where are the huge numbers of people this was ment to bring into pvp? so far for defiant anyway its the same as always.

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Techies are working on this currently, I'll let you know if I hear anything more.

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I demand a server roll back to i12 as compensation