I13 & another damage reduction on Claws !
By
Arctic Man,
Posted on: 2008-12-03 10:05 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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There is no way on this earth that claws will ever be a competative char to play in PvP as a scrapper the damage is pants
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Out of interest, have you tried it?
See, the PvE and PvP damages are now pretty much totally unrelated...
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Yes I have..........By all means some one please convince me im wrong about this and trust me I will be happy man.
I want someone to proove me wrong and say Claws is a great competative char for PvP and dueling in the Arena. But Claws in PvP is like looking for the invisible man.
All the best I await the comments back
I had my Claws/Regen running around on test to see how the tweaks would affect her in PvE. She seemed just as capable of shredding mobs now as she did back when I made her in i9.
Also, as pointed out, PvE and PvP are pretty much separate matters now.
If I remember my numbers right, Claws has the second highest DPS output (just behind Katana).
What it lacks is burst damage.
looking at the patch notes there has been 2 changes to claws for scrappers
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# Claws - Corrected the Damage and Endurance cost on Shockwave (damage went up from 1.04 to 1.05 scale, while endurance cost is fixed at 11.56.
# Claws -Reduced Animation time of Slash from 1.5 to 1.33 resulting in a damage scale reduction from 1.4 to 1.32
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If i'm reading them correctly shock waves damage scale went up by .01 so that's a damage boost to shock wave is it not?
Slash's damage scale went down to 1.32 so that's had a reduction but its also had its recharge reduced
So if i understand correctly Slashes DPS should be the same as pre i13 and Shock wave should cause more damage than its i13 incarnation so is that not a over all damage boost. especially as you should be able to chain slash better now?
Have you ever had a Claws Scrapper and picked the power "Shockwave" its a total waste, "Spin" much better for what its worth.
Do you honestly call 0.01 an INCREASE in damage lol
Im still not convinced by any means, I still say the damage is poor yet they keep decreasing it even further. The character itself is a great fun character to play. But is seriously let down by damage dealing, hence as i said earlier it would be easier to find the invisible man in PvP than it would a claws Scrapper.
Or perhaps its just me that i never see them amongst all the Fire / Spines / MA & BS scrappers in PvP.
Im just down at the moment i love claws and just wished it could be looked at to make it a more formidable character to be played in PvP...............
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the power "Shockwave" its a total waste
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That, Sir, disqualifies you as a proper Scrapper and you'll soon receive an admonitory letter from the Scrapper Guild 
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Do you honestly call 0.01 an INCREASE in damage lol
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Well, it's not a reduction either.
Claws is probably best DPS scrapper set in game, it doesn't have a huge damage spike, but the DPS is unmatched. The nerf to Focus was more harming because it changed totally the lvling of a claws scrapper until lvl 26 at least slowing it significantly, but reducing Slash damage accordingly to a faster recharge is not reducing the set damage at all.
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the power "Shockwave" its a total waste
[/ QUOTE ]That, Sir, disqualifies you as a proper Scrapper and you'll soon receive an admonitory letter from the Scrapper Guild
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I have a claws scrapper and I don't use Shockwave either. I don't get what projecting focused power a short distance has to do with claws. Same goes for Focus. Just doesn't seem to fit the theme of claws as a normal weapon.
No I've never had a claws scraper i do have a claws stalker tho but unfortunately haven't got high enuff to get Shock wave yet but i am looking forward to it.
Well yes i do because its higher than it was
And again they have not decreased claws over all damage they have only decreased the damage of slash a power which they have also decreased the animation time of so it effectively dose the same damage
according to the numbers in game slash will now do 82.58 damage unslotted wheres before it did 82.6 so damage has dropped a hole .02 not a huge drop really is it and while I'm at it Shock wave has went from 62.6 to 65.69 so its had a increase of .09 that looks like a over all increase in claws damage out put to me not huge one but its still a improvement. also shock wave is a cone so claws has lost some damage on a single target attack but gained a greater amount of damage on a attack that can hit multiple targets.
Of course my numbers could be wrong as i'm not very good with them but if there correct claws has came out better than it was.
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the power "Shockwave" its a total waste
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That, Sir, disqualifies you as a proper Scrapper and you'll soon receive an admonitory letter from the Scrapper Guild
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Do you honestly call 0.01 an INCREASE in damage lol
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Well, it's not a reduction either.
Claws is probably best DPS scrapper set in game, it doesn't have a huge damage spike, but the DPS is unmatched. The nerf to Focus was more harming because it changed totally the lvling of a claws scrapper until lvl 26 at least slowing it significantly, but reducing Slash damage accordingly to a faster recharge is not reducing the set damage at all.
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So youre telling me Shockwave for a scrapper is a good power, How? All shock wave basicaly is a KB power knocks em 6 miles down the road yeah fantastic power.
Youre all avoiding the main question, If Claws is so good as most of you are saying then how come we never see them in PvP or Arena battles ?
Come on hit me with it convince me 
Tbh Shockwave sucks, for some reason I was thinking Eviscerate.
Sorry and all that (damn now I'll receive the admonitory letter ).
Claws is good (and was better before) for PvE, for PvP I frankly don't give a toss and wont try to convince you about anything regarding PvP to be honest.
Still, can't see any damage reduction on Claws in I13...
Well I've faced one claws scrapper that i didn't know before entering pvp admitedly it was a while back now but then i don't PvP a great deal either.
Also if your designing a pvp toon i suppose there's things to take into consideration such as the fact that claws is leathal damage and so is at a imediat disadvantage when compared to the likes of fire. So i would imagine (maybe a pvper can confirm/denny) that when creating a pure PvP based toon they'll look for the best powers available to there desired AT and it'll be these power sets they'll pic so its not so much a case that claws is week just that there's better options out there for creating a pvp scrapper.
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I don't get what projecting focused power a short distance has to do with claws. Same goes for Focus
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That's true, but Focus animation rocks. I guess similar thing happens to Follow Up, I don't get why an attack allows you to make more damage and have higher accuracy for 10 seconds, but hey ho.
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Youre all avoiding the main question, If Claws is so good as most of you are saying then how come we never see them in PvP or Arena battles ?
Come on hit me with it convince me
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Just because Claws isn't so good for PvP in i13, doesn't mean it's CHANGED. As has clearly been shown, it's actually received an overall BUFF, even if it is a small one. Therefore, the reason you don't see many Claws scrappers in PvP now is because they sucked BEFORE i13, not after.
Therefore, your entire argument is null and void.
Now, if you want to argue about Claws being rubbish OVERALL, that's a different matter and nothing to do with i13. 
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Shockwave" its a total waste
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I am not!! i take offence to this sir i demand my revenge on the field of battle
Actually Shockwave is a rather important power for Claws, the Knockback is potent enough that it rarely gets completely mitigated by an non-AV npc's resistance. Combined with Focus it forms a core damage mitigation ability for Claws. Mobs can't hit you when they're on their back.
And if you're too tired chasing after mobs you send flying then use a wall as a backstop.
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Youre all avoiding the main question, If Claws is so good as most of you are saying then how come we never see them in PvP or Arena battles ?
Come on hit me with it convince me
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Just because Claws isn't so good for PvP in i13, doesn't mean it's CHANGED. As has clearly been shown, it's actually received an overall BUFF, even if it is a small one. Therefore, the reason you don't see many Claws scrappers in PvP now is because they sucked BEFORE i13, not after.
Therefore, your entire argument is null and void.
Now, if you want to argue about Claws being rubbish OVERALL, that's a different matter and nothing to do with i13.
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I dont wish to argue about anything, however i would like to discuss why Claws are so weak for PvP and Dueling. As someone previoulsy stated "As a PvP char your off to a big disadvantage as its lethal damge". Well BS and Katana are lethal damage but they do well in dueling and PvP, But claws has no chance.
And im not saying its claws being rubbish just since I13, they have always been weak, hence i cant believe they suffer another blow. To say its a reduction in damage but an increase in the attack so same damage is pants. In my view Claws needs its damage increased overall to make it more competive in PvP and Dueling. I feel its a great shame being they are fun character to play but let down badley by its damage potential.
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Shockwave" its a total waste
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I am not!! i take offence to this sir i demand my revenge on the field of battle
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LoL Shockwave I will look you up next time im in RV.... 
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And im not saying its claws being rubbish just since I13, they have always been weak, hence i cant believe they suffer another blow. To say its a reduction in damage but an increase in the attack so same damage is pants. In my view Claws needs its damage increased overall to make it more competive in PvP and Dueling. I feel its a great shame being they are fun character to play but let down badley by its damage potential.
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You've been told this already, but I'll repeat. ONE power has had it's damage reduced by a minimal amount BUT, it's animation time has ALSO been reduced, effectively making it cycle faster. Couple that with the small increase in damage on another power, and you have a net GAIN in DPS overall.
It's not pants to say that, it's ACCURATE to say that. Overall, your DPS has increased; how is that bad?
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Youre all avoiding the main question, If Claws is so good as most of you are saying then how come we never see them in PvP or Arena battles ?
Come on hit me with it convince me
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Just because Claws isn't so good for PvP in i13, doesn't mean it's CHANGED. As has clearly been shown, it's actually received an overall BUFF, even if it is a small one. Therefore, the reason you don't see many Claws scrappers in PvP now is because they sucked BEFORE i13, not after.
Therefore, your entire argument is null and void.
Now, if you want to argue about Claws being rubbish OVERALL, that's a different matter and nothing to do with i13.
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I dont wish to argue about anything, however i would like to discuss why Claws are so weak for PvP and Dueling. As someone previoulsy stated "As a PvP char your off to a big disadvantage as its lethal damge". Well BS and Katana are lethal damage but they do well in dueling and PvP, But claws has no chance.
And im not saying its claws being rubbish just since I13, they have always been weak, hence i cant believe they suffer another blow. To say its a reduction in damage but an increase in the attack so same damage is pants. In my view Claws needs its damage increased overall to make it more competive in PvP and Dueling. I feel its a great shame being they are fun character to play but let down badley by its damage potential.
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In order to make Claws viable for PvP you would need to increase burst damage. This would come at a cost; longer recharge times, longer animations, higher endurance costs.
"Shockwave is a rubbish power - Spin is much better"
All a point of view. Personally I love shockwave; combine it with focus and you can keep bosses and EBs on their backs while you chop 'em up into little bits. And going into the hollows with a level 50 and spreading a group of lvl 6s half way across the Gulch in one shot? How is that a bad thing?
I tried a Claws scrapper on test, and did the same mission on test as on live; on balance the i13 version felt faster. As someone's already said, maybe Claws has had it's burst damage reduced, but over all DPS has been buffed.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
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I did take Spin in Mr ?'s early days but didn't like it that much, but have Shockwave and is great in those 'oh sh... moments when you realise you may have bitten off a bit more than you may be able to handle.
Personal choice is the key here I think.
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Do you honestly call 0.01 an INCREASE in damage lol
[/ QUOTE ]It's damage scale value wet up by 0.01, not it's actual damage. You should not that the oh-so-critical damage drop you're complaining about is only 0.08 units as well.
Claws is amazing in PvE, leave it alone. There's nothing else I can chain that amount of damage on a single target with. Sure there's no burst, but its got one hell of a sustained DPS.
shockwave was useful when I could take down +7s with my claws, but at 50 I dont need it anymore so I dropped it
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They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
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Women wrapped in silk
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Eight legs, one body, silk,
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Have the Devs gone stark raving mad? another damage reduction to claws. Now i know it is meant to have an increased attack rate, however this doesnt make up for how bad the lack of damage is on claws.
There is no way on this earth that claws will ever be a competative char to play in PvP as a scrapper the damage is pants.He would be there 6 yrs trying to kill an invun / wp or Fire shields as the damage is so weak and now the poor set gets another reduction in DAMAGE ?
Or is this set there just to create as a fun character to play?
I just feel that this char needs to be looked at again and given an overhaul and NOT on the REDUCTION DAMAGE side. This set should be given a damage INCREASE, you never see a claws scrapper in RV or maybe once in 6 blue moons.You see loads of Fire/ MA / BS & even Katana BUT NOT CLAWS; and why because we all know deep down the damage is pants. Also to fight a purple EB the poor scrapper would be there till next Christmas not alone this one.
Or am i just going mad and getting it all wrong about Claws ? Does it have hidden talents i havent spotted yet ?
Thanks Peeps