Saltyhero13

Ill/TA was my main for many years, I absolutely love this combo. The two compliment each other well.

IMO Flash and GI are skippers from Illusion, and Flash Arrow and Ice Arrow are skippers from /Trick Arrow. In my final build I took GI for a set mule. I took Ice Arrow while I was leveling; I respec'ed out of it later on when I realized it got very little use. YMMV

In order to minimize redraw I typically start a fight by dropping PA followed by "Spooky". At this point I proceed with Trick Arrow debuffs followed by AoE and ST attack chain. Basically it goes Destract>Debuff>Attack looping Debuff>Attack until everything is dead.

As Local points out, your ST attack will serve you better over the +Res Shield any day. At the peak of its performance this combo will simply not be hit.

As far as IOs go, this combo shines from sets that provide recharge bonuses; the goal of getting PA to recharge just under 60 seconds and having OSA up as often as possible (high end builds will have OSA up as often as ~45 seconds.)

Good luck on your build! Its one of my favorite Controller combos....until /Traps comes along.

Without looking at your specific build its difficult to say what is gained and lost by selecting more control powers and recharge. In general I would consider an IO softcapping approach superior to picking up a few extra cruddy control powers. I highly doubt that the extra controls will have such a game changing impact as pursing softcapped S/L DEF.

Why you ask? A Controllers primary defense comes directly from its ability to mezz enemies. Its secondary defense comes from its abilities to buff and debuff. Typically the biggest constraint for these are availability (e.g. power is on a cooldown), not enough endurance, the enemy has some degree of resistance to the mezz/debuff (if not complete immunity), or an action simply cannot be made (e.g. you are mezzed, you are already in mid action). In contrast DEF is always on. It adds an extra layer of mitigation to your Controller when your other means fail or are ineffective. For a /Storm Controller DEF would be an even more attractive option considering it has no means of self heal.

With all that in mind DEF itself has its limitations; added to preexisting forms of mitigation it can be game changing in terms of survivability.

This exchange is almost sig worthy! Need the laugh. Nice retort!

I never tested it myself, but I suspect it would heal the pseudo pet. Hopefully someone that has tested it can post a comment to confirm or deny this behavior.

Most procs have a chance to fire at each jump. I have my JC slotted with three damage procs, the -end proc, the hold proc, and an accuracy IO.

I think the Feedback proc wont affect you (it affects the pseudo pet that jumps) and the Performance Shifter +end proc wont either (it was reported to grant the mobs end at one point)

If I couldn't proc this power I would probably skip it.

AMEN! What I am really looking forward to is Ill/Traps/Mace. I would reroll my Ill/TA in a heartbeat!

OP sorry for the thread jack. I went on a day dream tangent there.

Back on topic: Propel looks very DPE friendly on the flip side to my DPA comment. It also allows for a seamless attack chain at lower levels as you pointed out.

I hear you man. You can't discount the fun factor!

My comment wasn't really an attack on the chain you posted, but more of a data point the OP could use and decide for himself. It wouldn't be a dramatic increase anyhow.

My first 'troller was a Grav/Rad which I played for years. It has since been deleted and replaced by Grav/Sonic and Grav/Kin. I am praying for the day Grav/ gets some love. Thematically its one of the coolest sets in the Controller/Dominator arsenal. Its too bad Grav/ is such a poor performer IMO. Regardless I would roll a Grav/Traps for the giggle factor (Landmines+Wormhole would be so full of win) if we ever did get /Traps.

I like this idea a lot.

Arcana had a great suggestion as well where DS would put its target(s) in stasis effectively freezing its HP and END to the levels they were before they entered stasis. As she described, mechanically the power would need some -reg/-rec to accomplish this. The only drawback to this suggestion is that the intangibility effect that most players dislike about DS would still be an aspect. Its usefulness would also be somewhat limited to AVs with this design.

For me personally I would like something of the design that allows a placeable "entrance" and a placeable "exit". Anyone stepping into either location is immediately transported (if successfully hit) to the other location with a chance to disorient the traveler.

Another idea would also involve a placeable AoE mechanic creating a zone where the target is subject (if successfully hit) to a random lift or propel attack over the duration of the power.

I'll echo Local_Man's comments regarding alternate slotting for Mez and Dominate. Dom+Lev+Mez (not neccessarily in that order) will be your best way of dealing with single targets if the need ever arises. The native duration of Mez's sleep is so long, you are better off slotting it for damage as Local describes.

I was drawn to Mind/Emp mainly for its ability to run TK (I love this power) for extended periods of time (its one of the few combos that can do so without dipping into the Primal APP). I think you made a wise choice going with a high +Recharge build with a secondary focus on +DEF. Mind/ and /Emp both have long charging powers that benefit from +recharge.

My personal philosophy on +DEF is that its a great second line of protection that can keep you alive longer. The first line of protection comes in the form of your controls, but even they have limitations. During situations where your controls have reached their limits you may be the only thing keeping your team alive through buffs and heals; you can't accomplish this if you are dead.

I modified my own Mind/Emp build with your power selections in mind. Slotting is odd in a few places; its only intended to be a rough guide that may inspire some ideas of your own:

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...B9FE0F844AEE2A

I actually went with /Mace as my Epic pool and I am pretty happy with that choice:

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...61FF1FA089F5F1

Looking past the cool factor and assuming the numbers in Mids are correct, Lift is actually better than Propel in an attack chain. Something to consider.

Mace Mastery from the PPPs also provides an S/L DEF Shield available at 41. Its appearance is the most subtle of the Defense Shields.

Partially true. The AI doesn't always skip, I think it has to do with who is generating the most "threat" towards you. Distance is also a factor that plays a role in it skipping. Regardless I described one way to get the pet AI to cooperate more consistently through clustering. As a note outdoor maps are fairly easy to cluster but it can be done with ease on indoor maps as well. Which you responded with...

Is it a possible scenario? Sure. Is it a probable scenario? Unlikely (in my play experience) so I think its a safe assumption.

I fully understand that there are foes that resist KB but generally speaking they can still be pushed around for better positioning. Foes can also spawn spread out out as well. If "Herd"icaning doesn't work there are ways to use terrain and/or other powers that results in clustering as well. My point here is "Adapt and overcome".

Sure there are outlier scenarios. Not all tactics work in every scenario. That is up to the player to figure out what works best. For example, the scenario you have described above where mobs are split far apart, it may make sense to respond by "dividing and conquering" (another useful tactic leveraging /Storm's positioning and debuff powers). While doing so you can create two or more clusters, debuff one group, control the second, and attack a third as an example. Another repsonse could be to break LOS to cause clustering. The bottom line is that responses are scenario dependent and I think its safe to say that most players understand that.

I see your point about saving AoEs but its very build specific. Your point may hold true at lower levels, considering most players haven't committed to IOs at that point, where the playing field is usually even. At higher levels this may not be as much as a factor when you consider the gobs of +Recharge (increased power availability) and +DEF (increased personal survivability) that are available through IOs.

One option early on is to dip into Power pools(as you pointed out); later on its Epics. The point here is that all controllers, regardless of Primary or Secondary, have these options available to them.

We can also take an effects based approach and temporarily neutralize an enemy only to deal with them later vice killing them right away. Most Secondaries provide the debuffs to enable this kind of approach when mezzes arent an option.

True Mind/, Ill/, and Grav/ have access to powers that grant them an early endless attack chain at lower levels. Out of these Primaries Mind/ is probably best equipped to handle large groups with consistency and efficiency. These are trade-offs players need to consider when selecting their Primaries. However I wouldn't exclude other Primaries without taking a holistic viewpoint and discussing Secondaries, Power pools and Epics.

In the end I am sure we can discuss, ad nauseum, specific scenarios in which a specific powerset's viability is seemingly invalidated. Savy players play to the strengths of their chosen powersets and not to their weaknesses. Personally I think /Storm is one of the powersets that rewards "out of the box" thinking. With various tools at its disposal, it offers greater versatility than its given generally given credit for. Unfortunately /Storm is also a less forgiving set making misuse of powers more noticeable and usually to detrimental effect.

The real synergy I think Plant/Storm has is that many of its powers have a persistent effect (e.g. toggle or pseudopet). This opens up time that the individual controller can attack or take other actions. Mind you this is not unique to Plant/Storm but it is apparent to those that play these two sets in combination. In essence this synergy grants more "actions per minute". In addition to available endurance this is typical the biggest constraint to any controller.

I actually took both but for most content OG seems to do better.

Body Mastery is good but if you plan to farm Blaze or Mu would be better. I like not having end issues so I stuck with Body.

I neglected +Energy DEF in my build, but I am pretty happy with the results.

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...69FE01FE59E24A

Here is a build I've been tinkering with. Its not the best and a little on the expensive side. I'll see if I can dig up my non purple build for you:

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...38D55F60C4FEA8

This. Its low hanging fruit that will have the quickest noticeable effect.

I went the +DEF route as well. Layered with /DA's Resistances and Dark Regen will make you very hard to kill.

I would also consider investing in the Theft of Essence +end proc. Put it in Dark Regen. It will basically turn an endurance draining power (33 end with no end redux) into an endurance granting power. It has a 20% chance to proc on every mob hit with Dark Regen. If it procs it grants +~10 end per proc. Worst case scenario it pays itself back when used on a large spawn.

As far as a similar pairing, Elec/Cold may be a good pairing. Be warned however, that some players report conflict with Sleet and Static Field. I would add that the allure of the endurance recovery offered by Heat Loss would be less attractive to Elec/ since it has native endurance recovery.

Regardless, you may want to catch the videos posted by Boomie (sp???) taking down Pylons with his Elec/Cold. It may help you over look some of the drawbacks of an Elec/Cold pairing.

Good luck with your decision!

Heads up. Link is broken Mezzo.

Are you talking about using a single target attack in a surgical capacity? If you need to deal with a single threat in a group this is precisely what your single target mezzs are for. Outside of mezzing a single target in a group, no controller can immediately put down (as in one shot kill) a hard target (yet) with a single target attack anyway. I think its a moot point.

Does it matter if a hard target is amongst a large group or stand alone? Even if I have three or four in a group it doesn't matter. Why? The strong AoE at your disposal allows you to dispatch the minions fairly quickly. Even if the group is scattered it takes little effort to round up stragglers into a tight group to maximize the small AoEs Tornado and LS provide. By isolating the action this allows any pets to focus their damage vice chasing mobs around. Once again I think its a moot point.

I just disagree with the logic behind your argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbear42 if u have any suggestions on some better matchups like Plant/kin, Fire/Rad, ill/Rad... i am very open...

Better match ups to do what? Each combo has its own strengths and weaknesses. Without knowing what you have in mind makes it hard for anyone to recommend anything else. You have given affordability of a build as your only criteria without defining any other objectives for the build. You’ll need to give us more info if you truly want to explore other choices.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy_Amp Hurricane can also be considered counterproductive since it has a -tohit debuff which would interfere with Seeds usefulness. I have yet to take Hurricane on any of my /storm controllers.

I strongly disagree with this as it’s only true if you run Hurricane all the time.

When used properly Hurricane is a powerful positioning tool allowing you to relocate and pack mobs into the kill box you (and your team) create with AoEs. Using Hurricane this way also allows you get more mileage out of powers like Lighting Storm and Tornado, by hitting multiple opponents with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Local_Man Plant/Storm is a great combo with some good AoE damage, good AoE control, nice debuffs and a few weaknesses to Confuse-resistant foes and a lack of single target damage.

I wouldn't consider immobilization w/-kb + Tornado poor single target damage. It melts hard targets fairly quickly. That doesn't count the pets and ST attacks you have at your disposal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Local_Man I generally suggest that folks new to controllers play a secondary other than Storm because Storm takes some experience and practice. A badly played Storm can really be a problem.

Its easy to correct poor play style. Nothing is wrong with /Storm. It’s a great set, but as Local states it takes some practice to get the most out of the set.

Just adjust your play style by following one key ground rule as a Plant/Storm: Don't scatter mobs. It’s as simple as that.

There are several ways to prevent scatter as a Plant/Storm/xxx. Here are a few:

1. Immobilize mobs for the -kb effect before applying knock back powers; this includes Gale and Tornado.
2. If you do want to unleash chaos (use unadulterated knock back) I recommend doing so in a confined area where mobs won't be knocked all over god's creation. Be aware of other nearby mobs when employing this method. Tornado does get “chase happy” often resulting in added agro.
3. With regards to Lightning Storm, make knockback into knockdown by hovering over the mob and casting LS. LS will generally knock the opponents in the direction of its lightning strikes, which in this case would be down.
4. Learn (visually) the radius of Hurricane (I don’t know it off the top of my head) this will help you understand its reach allowing you to employ it more effectively.
5. When “Herd”icaning –kb powers help reduce some of the inadvertent scatter that will occur. Coupled with good use of the environment (e.g. corners, doorways, etc.) scatter will be minimal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbear42 so tornado=good. hurricane=bad(on a plant toon).

No.

In short that statement is an over simplification. Both are viable and recommended powers to take in a Plant/Storm combination.

How is PA slotted?

My vote is for Plant/Storm/Ice but any of the above will be great. As Local pointed out, those listed above all have -kb immobilization powers.

Keep in mind that any */Storm combo will be endurance use heavy(Fire and Ice being the heaviest). You will have to mitigate that with IOs and/or the Cardiac Alpha. I went the IO route to boost endurance recovery (before Alpha's existed) on my Plant/Storm/Ice. It was the best thing I ever spent influence on.

The take away form this is if you are willing to invest IOs (primarily Numina's proc, Miracle proc, and the Performance Shifter proc) in your toon any combo above will do.