Do any Grav/ builds so decent damage?
Grav/Storm . . . you get a huge Resistance Debuff in Freezing Rain and two additional damage powers at 35 and 38. Maybe Grav/TA, with Oil Slick Arrow at 35. Or a Gravity Dominator.
Gravity actually has a decent single target attack chain in GD-Crush (slotted for damage) - Propel or Lift. I like Propel solo, but Lift is better on teams. Grav, Illusion and Mind have decent single target attack chains.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Grav/Kin does good damage, both from the self-damage buffs, and Siphon Speed bringing the powers back faster for more attacks.
Grav/traps will be hilarious (and pretty damaging), but only when controllers actually get traps proliferated...
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
Make a Grav/Fire dom
Gravity (and Ice)'s AoE immobilise take 3 damage procs, since it takes slow enhancements.
So you can end up with some very light AoE damage there. I tire dit and it wasn't that great, but you may wish to decide for yourself.
Beyond that, its main drawcard is Propel - excellent damage-per-endurance early on (somewhat less relevant with Stamina inherent now) but later on it chokes on the crazy anim time, and thus stays slow no matter how much recharge boost you get.
Gravity/Storm Controller or a Gravity Dom.
If you go Dom I'd recommend a secondary that gives extra control and preferably stuns - Energy or Earth are two that I'd consider.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
My Grav/FF/Fire does good damage. Soloed well too. However FF will not give you damage.
However. I put GW Embrace in my single hold with a prov for psionic, and it happens a lot.
Then I put lethal procs from trap of the hunter into my Imobs. Both of them, which turn them into AOE, Imbob DOT's with a chance for lethal. Im doing ok.
Storm will give you some pretty solid AOE damage and control that Grav lacks but TA would suit you better in the long run.
But truethfully, if you really want to be menacing, try TA. Trick arrow will give you more bang for your buck really. It has debuffs, and it has controlls, it builds mags and it has some damage potential. While limited, if you use oil slick and ignite it (Magic origin or an energy based origin) can ignite the slick. Burning things pretty bad. And with Crush and Grav Distortion field you can keep em burning, and worm hole the rest of them onto the burning patch.
Acid Arrow will debuff defenses and should be mentioned that when held an enemy will take double the damage and your propel will do excellent damage afterwords.
Actually. TA would be my selection over Storm. You already have knockback potential with Grav, so using TA to control, build holding power through Ice arrow and Entangle arrow will just help you even more. Which will translate to more damage.
Your AOE potential will never be super regardless, until storm fully blooms, but if you want to lock down things then it's amazing, and since I am not a fan of anchors Storm is out for me. TA mitigates knockback a ton which will make your team love you.
If I didn't just level a 50 Grav/FF I would roll one now.
If more damage is desired, make a Grav/Psi Dom. Psi resists little. Skip Propel all together as it is not effective in Domination. Damage maybe increased but it would be wiser to focus on your assault sets than propel. Grav is not my favoreite Dom specialty.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
Illusion only has a decent ST attack if you insert Air Superiority into it; Blind and Spectral Wounds aren't too good on their own.
|
Blind, Patron Blast, SW, Patron Blast.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Prove it. My Illu/Kin's attack chain shreds anything I hit it with.
Blind, Patron Blast, SW, Patron Blast. |
or blind, seismic smash, SW (if they live ) - especially with purple procs in both blind and SS.
50: Ill/Kin(A+,R,J)-1047 badges RE/Dark(A) Fire/Elec Warshade BS/Regen Necro/Poison Ice/Fiery(A+) Son/Son Bane(A) FM/DA(A) DM/Nin Grav/Icy
lvling: Inv/EM DM/Sheild Arch/MM Bane NW Elec/Earth Grav/Elec Elec/FA Rad/Ice
Paragon Elite/Rogue Elite Joined Oct 2004
Illusion only has a decent ST attack if you insert Air Superiority into it; Blind and Spectral Wounds aren't too good on their own.
|
The point of my post was that Illusion, along with Gravity and Mind, are pretty good at taking down single targets even in low levels. Plant and Fire are more AoE damage focused, and Earth, Electric and Ice are somewhat lacking in damage in those early levels.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Prove it. My Illu/Kin's attack chain shreds anything I hit it with.
Blind, Patron Blast, SW, Patron Blast. |
The Illusion attack chain needs the addition of another attack to be complete, obvioulsy you can fill that with multiple vets or later on an Epic.
Some one without access to Vet attacks and pre Epic would do well to get Air Superiority as this greatly increases the ST damage of Illusion in the low/mid levels.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
The point of my post was that Illusion, along with Gravity and Mind, are pretty good at taking down single targets even in low levels. Plant and Fire are more AoE damage focused, and Earth, Electric and Ice are somewhat lacking in damage in those early levels. |
Illusion doesn't, it needs that extra attack.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I think it was your "Blind and Spectral Wounds aren't too good on their own" comment that bothered me. Very few people seem to recognize how the Illusory damage in Spectral Wounds allows Illusion to do a lot more burst damage that it would appear by looking at the base damage numbers. Illusion can take out foes in low levels faster than Gravity or Mind, even without that extra attack, because of that burst damage and the fast animations for Blind and SW. And in those upper levels, that attack chain is very fast -- combined with some good debuffs from the secondary, Illusion can take out foes pretty quickly.
|
Also Grav and Mind have more mitigation in their attacks.
At the low levels all 3 are good boss killers, but Illusion does need AS as that extra attack. Especially as GI or SI allows you to get in the first hit and keep the boss bouncing till he's held.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
May I ask why? I'm currently experimenting with a Grav/Elec Dom and I'm impressed so far. What would make Grav/Fire good or even better?
|
Really though, it has Fiery Embrace. Whether the combo is better is not exactly the question. The OP was just asking for a Grav build that dealt damage.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Provided that you can take the target out with a quick - Blind, SW - one, two I would agree with you. If the target has a slither of health left then the other two will pull ahead.
Also Grav and Mind have more mitigation in their attacks. At the low levels all 3 are good boss killers, but Illusion does need AS as that extra attack. Especially as GI or SI allows you to get in the first hit and keep the boss bouncing till he's held. |
Air Superiority is a nice addition, but it certainly is not needed. Illusion does plenty of damage without Air Sup. I agree that it is a nice way to handle bosses . . . but I often Deceive them first so I never have to worry about taking them out fast. It is slower, but safer.
With some Recharge in higher levels, you can actually get in three SW attacks before the heal back. Especially with Containment, that adds up to a fair amount of damage that can be used to take down a minion or leiutenant quite quickly. Bosses last long enough to get the heal back from the first attacks, but with some Recharge you still are able to keep about 3 applications of SW's Illusory damage on the boss until he drops.
To the OP, sorry about the Threadjack.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I have to support Local Man here. Blind and Spectal regarless of how you wish to percieve it, can be made fast enough that it is a single target murderer. Air Sup will speed things up, but many Illusionists would never need it in the first place. Although I found that a secondary attack is desiriable. And arguably with any troller other than fire.
Grav on the other hand deals straight up damage. The problem is that the damage is crushing, and as a result can be minimal to many of the enemy mobs. Circle of thorns come to mind.
But this was changed for me when I threw the Ghost Widows Embrace chance for Psionic. Even a lower level enhancer can really turn the tide on things that are resistant to you already heavy smashing damage.
I suggest working your powers evenly focusing on the damage type and adding another.
You will not be an AOE master. This is not your role. You can simulate it, but gravity will not give you that...nor will most of the secondary options, other than the concept of building your, and your teams, or pets personal strength.
If you wish to see bars go down, grav will impress you until level 37ish, mainly when you solo. But Grav is mainly single target heavy damage when an enemy is held. Propel is slow and in groups will really frustrate you. Lift is good, and fast, but will not make you the star of the damage show. Plant and fire might do that. Illusion will definately do that. Whatr grav will allow you to do is set stages of battle, choosing who it is that you wish to fight and who you wish to avoid at that time (Worm Hole).
Your controls with grav are great. But, you have many skippable powers.
Don't get me wrong at all. You will feel amazingly powerful with Grav. Almost super amazing because it, does not behave like any other set at all. It is unique all the way. And it works.
The Caveat is, that if you wish to see bars go down, then perhaps Grav is not your selection, where as fire and illusion would do it more effectively, when they bloom. Grav blooms early when speaking about damage, and thats where people lose their steam. Because once you realize your role, you need to stick it out and get your pet, otherwise you will be frustrated before you make it.
Go Grav/Radiation, imo, heavy on recharge. Get perma-hasten and perma-AM, and you're laughing. Slot 5 Positron's Blast w/ the Energy proc and the Smashing Proc from Impeded Swiftness into Crushing Field and spam it. Standing 20% damage buff, gobs of recharge and extra endurance, enervating field debuffs target resistances.
PS: You should have no trouble getting perma-hasten/perma-am with just set bonuses, which frees up your alpha slot for Musculature. More debuffs for radiation, more endurance for AM/Stamina, and more sweet, luscious damage.
Go Grav/Radiation, imo, heavy on recharge. Get perma-hasten and perma-AM, and you're laughing. Slot 5 Positron's Blast w/ the Energy proc and the Smashing Proc from Impeded Swiftness into Crushing Field and spam it. Standing 20% damage buff, gobs of recharge and extra endurance, enervating field debuffs target resistances.
PS: You should have no trouble getting perma-hasten/perma-am with just set bonuses, which frees up your alpha slot for Musculature. More debuffs for radiation, more endurance for AM/Stamina, and more sweet, luscious damage. |
A key thing about Spectral Wounds is not only that it has the Illusory Damage that give it an extra 64% damage over the base, but it also recharges in only 6 seconds. With a little bit of Recharge, that can easily get down to 4 or even almost 3 seconds. And it animates in just barely over 1 second. That means that by the time you finish a Dom-Mez-Lev chain, Illusion will be able to do a Blind-SW- -SW chain and do more damage than Mind's three attacks in the same amount of time. Yes, all three of Mind's attacks have a mez componant . . . but if the foe is held with Blind, does that really matter?
Air Superiority is a nice addition, but it certainly is not needed. Illusion does plenty of damage without Air Sup. I agree that it is a nice way to handle bosses . . . but I often Deceive them first so I never have to worry about taking them out fast. It is slower, but safer. With some Recharge in higher levels, you can actually get in three SW attacks before the heal back. Especially with Containment, that adds up to a fair amount of damage that can be used to take down a minion or leiutenant quite quickly. Bosses last long enough to get the heal back from the first attacks, but with some Recharge you still are able to keep about 3 applications of SW's Illusory damage on the boss until he drops. To the OP, sorry about the Threadjack. |
By level two both Mind and Gravity have access to 3 attacks while Illusion has only 2.
Without going into specifics all have similar recharge times and do similar damage - as you said the damage types differ so in reality Illusion will benefit in that area.
Having played all 3 many times - in practice:
Gravity allows the player to handle many mobs at the same time.
By using Lift, Crush and Gravity Distortion Grav has good small mob mitigation and damage.
Grav also has the benefit if an immob that sets up containment in one hit which Illusion lacks.
Mind can do a similar job alternating between Mez, Lev and Dom.
Provided that you are carefull the order of the attacks you can maintain containment on multiple mobs.
Playing in Atlas both allowed me to take on groups of 2/3 red mobs at level 2/3 - pop a yellow insp for the accuracy.
Illusion can't do this.
Use Blind and SW one mob and then you have to wait a few seconds for the attacks to recycle. With SW having no mitigation survival is also an issue.
You also make the assumption that the player is attacking a single target - just because the attacks are ST it doesn't mean it's the same target. With only one method to setup containment again Illusion falls behind.
I love Illusion as a set but based on my experience it really needs that extra attack in the low/mid levels to be comparable with Grav or Mind in ST damage.
A person starting a new Illusion controller who intends to solo would be doing himself a massive favour by taking AS from the flight pool - the difference it makes in the low mid levels is massive.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
As I said my comments are based around low level/mid level play when the player will be using TO/DO and to a lesser degree SO's. By the time the player has SO's PA will player a bigger part in the overall damage and control.
By level two both Mind and Gravity have access to 3 attacks while Illusion has only 2. |
Without going into specifics all have similar recharge times and do similar damage - as you said the damage types differ so in reality Illusion will benefit in that area. Having played all 3 many times - in practice: Gravity allows the player to handle many mobs at the same time. By using Lift, Crush and Gravity Distortion Grav has good small mob mitigation and damage. Grav also has the benefit if an immob that sets up containment in one hit which Illusion lacks. |
And setting up Containment really isn't much of an issue . . . Blind sets Containment for SW, just like GD sets up Containment for Crush and Lift/Propel. It only becomes a problem when Blind misses . . . if GD misses, then Crush is there as a "back-up" to set Containment for Lift/Propel.
Mind can do a similar job alternating between Mez, Lev and Dom. Provided that you are carefull the order of the attacks you can maintain containment on multiple mobs. Playing in Atlas both allowed me to take on groups of 2/3 red mobs at level 2/3 - pop a yellow insp for the accuracy. Illusion can't do this. Use Blind and SW one mob and then you have to wait a few seconds for the attacks to recycle. With SW having no mitigation survival is also an issue. |
You also make the assumption that the player is attacking a single target - just because the attacks are ST it doesn't mean it's the same target. With only one method to setup containment again Illusion falls behind. |
I love Illusion as a set but based on my experience it really needs that extra attack in the low/mid levels to be comparable with Grav or Mind in ST damage. A person starting a new Illusion controller who intends to solo would be doing himself a massive favour by taking AS from the flight pool - the difference it makes in the low mid levels is massive. |
The point I'm making is that while adding Air Sup can be nice, it is certainly not "necessary" or even "always recommended" since Air Sup requires moving into melee. The burst damage that Illusion gets from SW lets an Illusionist defeat low level foes often on one application of Blind-SW, even with TOs. If it takes one more application of SW, no problem because it recharges so quickly . . . faster than the attack chain from Mind or Gravity. If the Illusionist is at range, then the time spent to run into melee and use Air Sup will be longer than time needed for a second application of SW.
Adding Air Sup is a good choice for some builds or playstyles: especially Ill/Kin, because Kinetics is generally in melee anyway. But if the player prefers to stay at range, then Air Sup doesn't add much and some added Recharge in SW will be sufficient. I took Air Sup on my Ill/Kin and my second Ill/Rad, but did not on my first Ill/Rad, Ill/TA, Ill/Storm or Ill/Cold. But I always have taken Blind, SW and Deceive as my first three power choices -- these make the low levels easy and safe if I have the patience to use Deceive a lot. Illusion/Rad in particular gets AM early, and that added Recharge helps the Blind-SW- -SW attack work amazingly well.
In comparison, I think that Mind's Dom-Mez-Lev works very well but actually takes longer to take down a minion than Illusion even in low levels -- it upper levels, it is no comparison since Illusion can add an APP blast into the mix and has the contributions of Phantom Army and Phantasm. And Grav's GD-Crush-Lift/Propel takes longer, too.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I like gravity, but I like red bars going down too. What do?