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Quote:I tied my spreadsheet back to Iggy's (I think ... I get a 5% advantage to Scrapper at 75% fury / 10% criticals, so mechanically must be doing something right).What happens if we throw, say +20% damage bonus in there from sets (for both of them)?
Adding 20% damage bonus: Scrapper pulls ahead from a 5% advantage to 7% advantage.
Criticals really do equalize things. Going up against LTs, the Brute and Scrapper running the top chain ... the brute eclipses the Scrapper only at 85% Fury, which is legitimately not easy to exceed consistently. Against Bosses, the Brute can exceed the Scrapper at 95% Fury, which isn't happening for any length of time and only after activating the Frenzy temp power. The above paragraph excludes any outside damage buffs.
Edit: the above comments are only for the top chain - lower recharge chains may differ. -
Quote:Crits! Crap. I forgot to include crits. Yeah, your math is spot on.Well I have Scrappers beating Brutes at 75% Fury running FU-Focus-Slash with the triple stack FU on Focus and double on Slash and FU itself by, ohhhhh say 6%. Counting in Crits at 10% of course.
Shouldn't Follow Up triple stack on Slash, or is my math off on that too? -
Running the chain:
Follow Up
Focus
Slash
Assuming you are very tight with your clicks, and with no lag, achieves triple stacking on Focus & Slash and double stacking on Follow Up.
Assuming 95% enhancement for damage (and the ridiculous 313% recharge you need in Follow Up ...), this nets us a comparison that has the Scrapper and Brute dead even at 68% Fury. The Scrapper can pull ahead with +DAM in the build and Assault, while the Brute pulls ahead by squeezing out more Fury. 68% is not unusual, IMO, but does take some effort to keep up.
That's the absolute best chain available. But in the land of reality, we're not running FU/Focus/Slash, right? Because holy heck that's a lot of recharge. Of course, if you're running a toon with a damage aura, as a Scrapper you can leverage the triple stack better. So it might be worth a bit of an investment.
At lower levels, FU/Focus/Slash/Strike is a lot easier to achieve and grants double stacking of FU. Brute and Scrapper are dead even at 57% Fury, which frankly I can do in my sleep.
So ... I guess my conclusion is ... at the highest levels of recharge, a Claws Scrapper should be able to pull ahead in an average situation, but a high-Fury Brute can pound 'em a bit. But at realistic level of recharge, at 70% fury, the Brute has about a 7% damage advantage. -
Quote:The Follow Up / Focus / Slash attack chain is 10% higher on a Brute?It also depends on slotted. While your claw/SR could be slotted for aid self, tough/weave etc, the scrapper could just have the rebirth destiny, pray the passive +regen covers his survival, and throws in assault into his build for extra damage.
When you compare identical builds, brutes are higher by ~10% damage, due to higher DPA numbers on thier attacks. Now, on non identical builds, or even general human error, brutes and scrapper could be on par damage wise. -
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Some general comments:
- All Blaster 1/2 attacks were standardized at 1 / 1.67 second activation times. This did a number of Ice's single target damage vs. its original state.
- All 20' attacks (i.e., Blaze!) were increased in range to 40', which cut into Ice's advantage with Bitter Ice Blast at 50'.
- So ... while Ice was the king historically, maybe not as much today.
- Bonesmasher still rocks the house ... Total Focus now no longer does a boss level stun, so that was a hit, unfortunately (but I think your guide didn't recommend Total Focus anyway).
- Hovering (you used to recommend 6 slotting) took a hit with Enhancement Diversification, but is now a bit better thanks to swift impacting Hover now.
Hmmmm, those are the key things I think were pertinent to your guide, which was awesome at the time -
Three points:
- You need to factor in the bonus 15% chance to crit that the Scrapper has on Eviscerate.
- You would never completely factor out crits on the Scrapper as the AT has a modest ability to crit minions as well at 5%. Its disingenuous to look at a chain without crits entirely.
- Furthermore, regardless of minion/LT/Boss, the odds highly favor crits occurring in an AoE chain, particularly on Eviscerate. That attack will crit on at least one target, every time, at the target cap. If you're going to be a stickler, you'd apply a flat 7.5% chance to crit on all powers, 22.5% on Eviscerate.
- For what its worth, I also would not include Shockwave in an AoE chain comparison. From a practical perspective, its not happening without repositioning. I say this as someone that has played with Shockwave and loves the power.
The appropriate chain comparison math, in my opinion, for the Scrapper would be: Follow Up + Spin + Eviscerate (Repeat). The AoEs maximize 2x stacked follow up and leverage the Scrappers bonus on Eviscerate.
For the Brute, I suspect they'd be better off with an AoE chain leveragin a Patron power like Elec. Fences rather than Eviscerate, but that's just my gut. I have Evis on my Brute, and I think I'd prefer a higher target cap personally. I dunno.
Anyway that's how I'd compare 'em. Just my $0.02 and I have no dog or pony in this pissing match.
(And in case anyone cares, I have a Claws/Elec Brute, fully IO'd / Incarnated and yes, it is a tiny God. I also have a Claws/Fire Scrapper and its very nice as well. YMMV!) -
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I hope Life Drain doesn't suck too bad for damage.
I really like the idea of /MM for the triple cones of doom: Tentacle/Torrent/Scream just sounds fun -
Quote:Oh snap. That's a quality powerset, man.As per the second FREEdoM talk..
Current powers for Dark Blast (subject to change):
- Dark Blast
- Gloom
- Aim
- Moonbeam
- Tenebrous Tentacles
- Abyssal Gaze
- Life Drain
- Blackstar
and
-Umbral Torrent
Drop Torrent for Aim? Win. Drop Dark Pit for anything? Win (I don't know if Abyssal gaze = fearsome stare or just a single target, but it has to be better than Dark Pit) -
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Quote:Storm -> Cobra -> Storm -> CAK should do 89ish DPS unenhanced, according to my notes from Moonlighter's testing at the time of the MA changes. At the time, that was nearly tops among Scrapper primaries, second to the Incinerate/GFS/Cremate chain in Fire melee.I looked at that thread and what I mainly saw was people saying, "Well, MA used to be pretty bad and I haven't run the numbers but I assume it still is." Good news! It isn't. I'm not going to tell you that it does the absolute best single target but it does beat much-beloved sets like katana and I believe even claws. You don't have to like dragon's tail but going by the numbers it does the best DPA. That's hard to argue with. It is also up much more frequently than FSC, a power whose popularity can only be due to people's love of large orange numbers. It is up six times as frequently as lightning rod and does about a third of its damage, as another example.
Which would you guess is the better farmer: MA/FA or Elec/Shield? The answer may or may not surprise you!
Anyway, why do you want to disbelieve that MA is good now? It really is! Enjoy and spread the word!
Storm Kick is awesome. -
Kyria - Thanks for stating clearly what I've been thinking for a while but haven't been able to well articulate.
The Devs have actually done a nice job (unintentionally or otherwise) of making range desirable in the trials. Blasters own the BAF. Of course, I think I'd prefer to avoid a Blaster in a certain phase of the Lambda ... heh -
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Quote:Hmmmm. The extra .24 of damage scale in Brute Spin makes that much of a difference to you? I dunno, I'll chalk this up to personal preference, but when I'm running TFs and Trials on my Claws Brute, I often find myself throwing out single target attacks more than I would like ... would prefer to be spinning, spinning, spinning. Can't get enough. YMMVTheorically, if you do nothing but stand still and use Spin the scrapper would do more damage, but ingame, against moving targets with a finite amount of HP and using other powers, you get animation limited very quickly. In the end, the added damage of brute spin more than makes up for the increased recharge and then some.
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Quote:Katana on a Brute will be sick.I can only imagine how disgustingly powerful a Brute will be with the option to take Parry or Divine Avalanche.
Fast animations = good fury
Divine Avalanche = why hello there, just jump right into melee, son
It will miss the crunch of a Golden Dragonfly critical, but I could live with that -
More excited about the revamps to /Poison and /Energy Aura than anything else. Those have been coming since freakin' Q4 2005.
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I re-rolled my level 44 SS/EA as an SS/SR. I 50'd and IO'd the SS/SR and was generally happy with the move, but I'm looking at this at thinking the SS/EA would be pretty nice with these changes.
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Good call on the Lightning Field slotting, I overlooked that.
Very good call on the Enzymes, was going to suggest them, but as they cost similar amounts to Purples, I figured you'd say no.Quick tip: The synthetic HOs are generally cheaper than the pure HOs, no good reason why.
Overall I think you'll be happy with your build! Its not quite as sturdy as some of the defense-oriented powersets, but it gets the job done and builds out really well under incarnates.
I splurged on PvP +Res IO and went Tier 4 Cardiac for nearly (not quite) 70% S/L res which is very nice indeed. I took the Destiny buff for defense debuff resistance which is also very nice, REALLY helps against those annoying Psi enemies that blast def debuffs right through me. (I'm looking at you, Tarantula Mistress!) -
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Quote:I currently use:Hey, familiar names!
So, what channels should I get reacquainted with in the chat?
BMT of Champion
Champions Unleashed
BOSS Chat
TankHQ
Champion Trials
I would use the other Champion channel (can't remember it off top of my head) but its usually full. These will generally get you on a team somewhere. When I'm online at some point, I'll shoot you a tell.