QuiJon

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You have every right to express your opinion and dislike my own. But unless you have some survey of the blaster population, would you be so kind as to express your opinon as yours and not some mandate from the Blaster community?

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And do you have a survey of what exactly blasters do want, before running off with a half a page of what you consider your best suggestions. You had your opinion, that would basicly to me, and im sure to others that enjoy the fun of playing both at range and in melee, would ruin the sets. And this is also not the first thread started lately dealing with these issues, issues that the suggested resolution to would again, in my opinion and reading this thread alot of other blasters as well, would not be acceptable.

And i have a energy secondary. And to me, adding two powers that if i choose i can take in my epic sets, that of PFF and repulsion is a waste, and if i had to give up any other powers to have them added is completely not acceptable.

I know the ideas that i put forward are not original , or even really my own exactly. They have been suggested time and time again for over a year. But they seem to be ideas getting lost in the recent flurry of "take this from us and give us this" posts. Posts that deal in ideas offered by a few in the blaster community that are seeking to have melees effectivness dropped in blaster sets, in order to gain what they feel is more range. I dont agree. I love the melee, and i love the way blasters currently play. I love the variety, to me anyone can fight in melee with defense sets, good players do it well without. And i love the challenge.

Can i live with no mez protection, sure i have done it for 2 years almost. Can i live with no added damage to range, sure but it would be nice to see a better scalling damage curve. Can i live with power burst being only 20 foot range? Yes because i move in and out of melee and close range using my secondaries its really never been a huge issue for me. But 50 foot would be nice. Would i give up anything your suggesting i do, to have any of these things happen...... H E L L NO!

And that is my opinion.

And the reason why exactly would the door be closed on having scaling fixed as you said? Perhaps because after Defiance was introduced there was a flurry of threads saying it sucks and fixes nothing, and now we arent ever mentioning that issue anymore, we are disscussing removing this power for that.... add this here and take that there posts. Well my opinion is stay on target. Full fill the thread title you suggested, change little to fix alot. Your suggestions change alot for what to me is little if any gain with what I would have to give up. And you might say you havent suggested dropping any melee damage, but exactly what makes you think that the same devs that believe that dominator damage is scaled well are going to give us a long ranged high BI attack with out some cost for it coming from somewhere? To me we should be looking more at minor QOL type fixes rather then asking for complete overhaul. THings that can be slipped in instead of tearing apart sets and rebuilding. Cause after seeing how some sets in COV run, i honestly dont want them to pay to much attention to what my blasters can do.

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I like a number of the ideas you present. Many simply won't happen, for a variety of reasons, but some are quite doable. When I get out of my current mountain of work, I'll re-read this and try and implement some of it.

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Please just ignore them. Really blasters have a couple main issues that dont require totally ruining the sets as these few posters that keep reguritating the same ideas to change blasters to THEIR ideals keep posting.

Blasters have a problem with damage scaling. This is not going to be fixed by simply saying give them more ranged attacks, or whatever. THe scale needs to be fixed. Statesman recognized this a few months back, and did nothing but give us defiance, which does nothing to solve the issue being that good blasters dont ever get much of a defiance buff. The ranged attacks still scale badly, and even more evident since ED was introduced. Over the course of a 50 level carreer i would estimate a extra base 10 percent needs to be gained to really level it out and make blasters live up to the kill before being killed ideals.

Mezz protection, situational, would be nice, i know its not going to happen but i throw it in every chance i get anyway, something IW style, click, nonperma, maybe a 5 minute down time enhanced. Infact hey, there is you new inhernet power. Defiance can live up to its name. Make it like Domination for COV. As we fight we build up a bar, when its full we click it for 2 minutes of practiced brawler style mezz protection. When it wears off we start all over. We build up our "defiance" in the face of chain holds. And much like dominators, will probably save it until we know we need it for that last boss or whatever.

And finally not ALL secondaries are made equal. There are some glowing holes like say burn for a blaster. Fix those things, and those only. Some sets work great, like energy, or even i have seen electric manipulation used very effectivly. But i do agree with the poster before his half a page list of changes he proposed, that is change as few things as possible.

And simply to powers, not alot needs to be changed. Short range high damage burst powers should all be equal in distance, yes 40-50 feet sounds nice. Snipes should provide some distance protection, in that not all enemies should be able to return fire with normal attacks at a 150 foot distance, but rather then changing blaster sets, i would like to see enemies some with higher range some without. Kinda like players. A melee enemy shouldnt have a pistol that can clear snipe range. A rifle carring enemy probably should. And since were on snipe talk, drop the animation times. Or at minimum shorten the interupt by about half.

And really to me that is it. I know other more set specific changes are sugested but i dont comment on sets i havent played. I have played energy, it needs no changes in its secondary it works great, perhaps other sets need to be tweaked to meet its usefulness rather then energy being ruined from fear of melee.

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So, we obviously keep our badges when we turn good or go rogue. Here's the big question, what about accolades? It would be kind of abusable to have both hero and villain accolades (assuming villain accolades are roughly equivalent to the hero versions) so it's safe to assume they'll be taken away somehow. Do you just flag accolades X, Y, and Z as for one side only, and remove them as part of the trial?

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Where two Accolades have the "same" power, Hero or Villain...

You can have both Accolades.

You can NOT have both Accolade powers, you lose the older one when you get the newer one.

Like I said... if you think its abusable... it's not going to happen.

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Well personally i find the whole concept abusable really.

First off, if you want a hero, make one, want a villian make one. I dont see what is gained by doing this. Infact this is really the biggest Powerleveling gimick of all time in my view. I have 4 level 50 heroes. With this i can over night have 2 level 50 villians. Atleast with wolfs, ninjas, kora fruit etc, you needed to find a team, hell even winter lords were slower then that.

But that aside, im kinda curious about power sets. Cause frankly when controlers, blasters, and defenders, start moving into villian status, to me corruptors and dominators are dead in the water. Why would you want to be some gimped blasters or defender if you could be the real thing, controlers have better durations and better debuffing and buffing then dominators. Basicly to me corruptors and dominators are really not quite as strong at there individual sets as the COH equivlent is. So suddenly every VG will want a real defender for their teams, or real ice/energy blsters, or controlers with containment and fireball etc.

Over all i would have to say at this time, i hope this actually never, ever sees the light of day on the live servers. The villains and heroes were contructed differently, this bleeds that together and is just going to lead to over all more "adjustments" to powers and game mechanics we will all end up complaining about later.

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Travel supression was patched in to prevent a tactic called kiting or jousting.

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Nope. From PMs:

Me:

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1.) Am I correct that the purpose of travel power suppression is to inhibit the practice of jousting?

3.) If so, then why is it still possible to joust with Speed Boost and other similiar powers?


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Statesman:

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1. No. They're meant to eliminate issues in PvE.

3. Because jousting wasn't the reason for the change.



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Statesman is lying to you in private messages then.

According to a post called "patch not explanations" posted 4-28-05 statesman had this to say about the initial planned change to add the -acc to speed and jumping:
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o Added 50% ToHit debuff to Super Speed and Super Leap. PvP/PvE

There was an inherent unfairness with the Travel powers; only Flight had a -50% ToHit debuff. Yet Super Speed and Super Leap could create situations similar to hover snipe (i.e. flying above a mob and firing away) where they could fight at little to no risk.

Example: click on Super Speed, run up to mob, attack, run away. Rinse and repeat.

Super Leap already has a toggle that was always intended for battle situations (Combat Leaping) and Super Speed has Hasten (which gives not only a defensive buff, but also an incredibly powerful –recharge).

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I guess its not outrightly lying since the explanation does infact deal with PVE issues. Issues they didnt care less about UNTIL the arenas hit the test server. I have no idea when you started playing the game. but i think many that played during that time frame will remember that at that time, the Devs took alot of heat for changes that resulted in PVP nerfs or buffs, that bled over to PVE also. Almost every explanation at the time was a "never intended" kinda of explanation, and im sorry as quickly as they through on the -acc and supression when people hated the -acc, this is something that could have been fixed at ANY time in the previous year of release. I dont find it to be chance that it was not until PVPs introduction it became an issue.

I also dont know your gaming experience, but many FPS games end up dealing with issues or Kiting, bunny hopping etc after release due to exploitation by the players. The first call of duty had to implement a supression to jumping. You would go on a ton of servers and just see 30 dudes running through a feild hopping around like idiots cause of how hard it became to hit them.

Supression was introduced after the -acc becaue the devs saw the ability to que attacks from range and then run or jump through the attack range to trigger the attack, by the time the animation was started you were a substanial distance again from the enemy. This was multiplied to be even worse in PVP, when it could be done with many of the scrapper and melee powers best attacks.

Yes it can in fact still be done, sorta. You can pull it off really 1 time effectively, but the supression slows you down from just being a all out gank fest with travel powers. I dont like supression i liked the -acc better, but many people complained about it.

Over all it was introduced i guess to stop what i said it was, the devs will maintain that was in PVE, i personally say then why not a fix for over a year, even through the COH beta where this was being done. UNTIL it became a PVP issue as well.

But over all the very issue he describes in the patch notes, is basicly jousting, kiting, whatever you want to call it, but its triggering attacks in greater safety by using the travel powers to combat advantage when combined with the game mechanics.

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I've been playing COH for a year now and reading the boards but haven't made too many posts. I'm wondering what people think of the MMO's if you look at them from the perspective of a popular culture phenomenon. I see a return in many ways to D&D type scenarios with COH/COV, in that people can communicate with one another. Unlike the console based RPG's like Final Fantasy, Zelda, etc on Nintendo, Playstation, and XBOx (the non-online versions). Is this a good thing or does it mean that the genre has been co-opted by mainstream tourists? What do you think?

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There is, I think, a place for some interesting discussion on MMOs in the game space. Traditionally, games have been social activities - you get together with a bunch of friends and have fun. Pen & paper games, board games, card games, sports, etc. are all about that.

For a number of years, though, computer games have been primarily a single-player experience.

MMOs seem to move us at least one step back towards "games as social activities." A good friend of mine & game designer believes that board games are coming back into the mainstream, and aren't just for kids (and families) anymore.

It certainly seems like they (MMOs and online console games) are becoming an accepted sphere in which to play games (have "meaningful fun") with friends.

I think it's too early to tell whether MMOs will have real long-term endurance in mainstream culture ... or whether they'll be more fad-like ... but then 5.5 million WoW players can't be wrong, can they?

cheers,
Arctic Sun

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The real fear of this is that, though sure i spent hours playing champions with friends when i was young, it still required me to go out of the house. Meet people, be actually social.

Now though MMOs do require a certian amount of social interaction, to me they would hardly replace that of the lessons we learn about dealing with others and freinds, family, girl or boy friends, etc when we were younger.

To me that is the real "danger" of these types of games. If they actually serve to replace actual face to face interaction with friends etc, in social situations (assume most hibernating gamers still have to work or go to school and be social in that way) then to me its inherently unhealthy. If they simply start to replace the time spent watching movies at home, or tv or (i know dont start) Reading, that is different in that its just a juxtaposition of your preffered style of entertainment, they havent served to create a barrier or buffer between you and actually being with people.

Its a fine line that we all walk, sometimes to closely, i have to admit to calling into work late once and actually blowing off a freind once to stay at home for a Hamidon raid.

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Hell i still outta force of habit find myself toggling to hover to attack though it really does nothing.

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Well, hover does take considerably less end.

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but for a year it wasnt an issue until the arenas opened.

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For a year it wasn't complained about, then the arenas opened. It was always an issue, it just wasn't a big enough of one to devote resources to. Arenas came around and it became a big enough issue to pay attention to. When the solution for PvP was implemented, there was no reason not to implement it for PvE as well, since the same situation existed in both places, and it didn't require any extra resources.

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So they did the "since you all hate it so much" kinda thing, and came up with supression that is like 1000 times worse to me.

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I agree. An insurmountable accuracy penalty would be MUCH better than restricted movement in a power who's sole purpose is movement.

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Sure there was a reason, how about they didnt care if we did it in PVE but when PVP was introduced people complaining got te travel powers nerfed. The devs promised nothing would ever be changed for PVP alone, but comeone how many times do we have to hear working as intended before we say BS!

Though the power worked better in PVP, the fact is once you established agro on a group in PVE the computer was able to launch attacks at you because it could target you faster then a human and do the same thing, que attacks the instant you got in range. Humans fighting Humans the powers moved to quickly for the split second someone was on your screen to do that, hence why it became a larger, more important issue in PVP, and why a power was altered in PVE for sole reasons of PVP usefulness.

Devs knew that travel powers could be used in combat, their not stupid. And most are gamers, so seeing kiting, bunny hopping etc, in other games would not have been a surprise to them. It simply wasnt a big enough issue in pve to care about. But even so, notice they [censored] up fly from the get go with a acc modifier, so they were aware of the use of travels as combat powers. To then a year later say "was never intended" is BS. Its more like "we didnt think far enough ahead to pvp to realize this would be a tactic" and of course players pay the price.

But seriously getting back on thread topic, Fly is now way below the other travels, sure i like it due to its Heroish feeling, but its utility is way off. It needs to be faster, take less resources, and over all just be a cool power to have. What they really need to do is cap out all the travel powers. Teleport should kick [censored] on all for speed due to the type of power it is, and that it really has no combat bonus accept running away. Then the other three should all be tested. Through cities and open areas, strait line and obsticles. Then take the average times of all the start to finishes, and make all the speed equal. Or close to it, i know flight will never hit 88 mph like SS can, but a 28MPH difference for being able to strait line it is obscene. Everyone say cause it safer? well SS has stealth in it also, i have never been shot at when using SS and i kept moving past a mob, ever. Its perfectly safe to us, so is jumping, so lets get by that, and get some balance to them. FLight should in all liklihood hit around 70MPH to be considered as usefull speed wise as the other two powers. Jumping might also need slighter boost.

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Was there any herding issue that caused Travel Suppression to be patched in? For the life of me, I can't see why Travel Suppression was even needed at all.

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Travel supression was patched in to prevent a tactic called kiting or jousting. basicly people would use SJ and SS, since they inherently made you travel faster, would basicly cue attacks, mostly melee, from outside of range of a enemy, then run or jump into range and back out. As you can probably attest to for that split second your in range your attack starts to fire. Just like a blaster shooting at someone running around a corner and hitting them, said melee attack would still go off and hit a target even though you were 40 yrds away from them again.

It worked in PVE against AI, and back then the only concern was the flight pool. So to prevent hover blasting the devs programed flight with a big, like 50 percent -accuracy. Making fliers that wanted to stay airborne have to bind flight and hover to hot keys and switch to hover quickly to attack and then back to flight to move.

I think the real issue became evident in PVP. The devs say no, but for a year it wasnt an issue until the arenas opened. So go figure. But when fighting people in the arena, and a player having to react quickly get a target etc, a enemy running in and outta his view so quickly became much more a issue, so they first added a -acc to all travels like flight had. Everyone freaked out. Fliers had been doing the toggling backand forth forever, but jumpers and SSers i guess couldnt handle it. So they did the "since you all hate it so much" kinda thing, and came up with supression that is like 1000 times worse to me. Hell i still outta force of habit find myself toggling to hover to attack though it really does nothing. Old habits die hard i guess.

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Since there does not seem to be any hope that ED will ever go away, I was wondering if there will be any changes to flight enhancements or a buff to flight speed? I think that it is kind of crazy that it is the only travel power that can not reach its top speed without buffs. Also I really miss my 6-slotted hover. If any forum users read this post have you had any pm response concerning any possible change to the flight pool?

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Quite honestly now that the accuarcy is not a issue, and the end drain is the same, and supression slows you down anyway, i personally say flight doesnt just need a combat improvement, its needs improvment as a travel power. It has long been, other then teleport the most costly power in slots with the smallest return. A base progressive speed boost that nets by level 50 about 10 MPH faster would be great. Also maybe knock about a quarter off its cost in end. I dont seem to have the end issues with jumping or speed runnign that i have with flight. Supression was supose to take the combat out of travel powers making them all travel powers again, yet it seems that other then removing the accuracy penelty (which i preffered to supression) it seems all the things that prevented flight from being used exploitively (is that a word even) has remained in the power. its the slowest, and requires more to max it then any other common travel power.

Teleport to me also should be looked at, especially for end cost if not for range.

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Right now a lot of posts have talked about the high Prestige cost of Base items - and that they're bringing in a ton of Salvage but can't really do anything about it.

Bases, as they currently stand, really focus on mid and large sized groups earning Prestige - so the complaints have a good point. We're trying to work something out so that a smaller group can get something useful quickly - and also put Salvage to use! Can't promise a timeline, but we are working on it.

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Seems to me that one of the easiest solutions is to range prestive earning off SG size. But not toon size, but how many Global chat channels or log in IDs are in the group. Since many people want to keep a more small and intimate SG but dont want to totally forgo the benefits of crafting bases, travel hospitals etc. Seems like the solution is to give smaller groups cheaper items.

Like in the tailor the cost scales as you level and earn more money. Same thing under 15 global handles is X amount of prestige per kill, mission, whatver, 15-30 is y, 30-50 is z and over 50is like current levels.

I think its safe to say that most SG do not have 75 different memebers, but more like 30 with multiple toons. Being that all these characters can not be in actiona t one time, means that smaller groups of altaholics are suffering.

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Now I agree that defiance is crap and only slightly useful if you try to exploit it, however, States wants to here about the bug in the OP. We should stick to info on that rather than venting about defiance else we may be waiting many more months before another red name shows up here again.

Edit: Wow. Quite a few posts between mine and the last one I saw. My point is just letting him know that we think it's crap isn't going to do us any good since we've been saying it since pre-I5. He wants data.

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Data has been given since it was on test. Nothing done.

The point remains that Statesman pops in every blue moon and talks a good game about possibly giving the problems this AT has some consideration.

Last time, our secondaries were supposed to be getting looked into and what did we get? A minor HP buff. /Fire still sucks, AR/Dev still sucks. Yet they don't miss an opportunity for nerfage.

I used to be full of hope like you, now I'm just a bitter old Blaster with a busted gun and outdated gadgets.

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Speaking of this, have you seen how cool the guns in the MM sets look, and AR blasters still get that big ole clunky thing that looks like the gun surge was selling in Beverly Hills Cop 3 with the microwave in it.

Any way, dont ever, and i mean EVER, count on defiance. Its been crappy since day 1. It was a obvious attempt to cover up issues of blasters damage scaling in the late game. An issue we were promised to have looked at, with the secondary powers being adjusted being another, that has completely and utterly been ignored. Meanwhile they have had plenty of time to examine the detoggling in PVP and plan on "adjusting" that in issue 7.

Odd its so unlike this dev team to worry about nerfing powers rather then getting right on fixing broken ones. This is just way outta character for them

And if you couldnt smell that....Its sarcasm.

Should have kept Ill/kin it was cool, i soloed about 6 AVs with mine before issue 5. He was alot of fun. ..... Was!

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6 zones
5 re-mixed ATs
4 'new' enemy npcs
3 unique powersets
0 Accolades
0 Items of Power
0 HO's for villains


K, now before I incur the wrath of the fanboy mafia, let me point out that I enjoy the game.

However, if I had been a subscriber to coh, I would not have shelled out 50 bucks for CoV. I was gone for a while, and so to me it was just like buying the game all over again. Not only that, but I think most people were under the impression that the content of CoV and the amount of programming involved in that content would match CoH when it launched.

It doesn't even come close. Let me cut off one response right now "but just wait they'll add stuff". My free month is up. I'm talking about comparing this to coh launch. I'm talking about what I already paid money for, not for what I will continue to pay money for. I can't exactly call them and tell them that they owe me free months until they add content now can I?

With that out of the way, let's talk pricing. Some people actually paid 70 bucks for CoV. Let's not talk about overseas shipping prices for now. $50 is the norm for a brand spanking not-a-copy-of-something-else new game. 20-30 is what an expansion will run you. And in the mmo world, both offer free month trials.

CoV was touted as a standalone game. Implication was that the newness would equal that of coh when it launched. But really, CoV is nothing but an expansion PRICED as a new standalone product. Less new programming went into the cov ATs than went into the FREE epic ATs CoH has.

Nice graphics btw. By far the biggest improvement, but the graphics engine is a clunker that makes me wonder if it was worth it. And since it doesn't really improve the way CoH looks (unless you have shaders 3.0), then I wonder if it was even necessary to "upgrade" the engine this way.

Not to mention this game loves to crash, and you can verify that at the tech issues forum.

I think the devs kind of need a wake up call. I think with what we paid for, each AT deserves at least one new powerset in both primary and secondary (in coh, they were all new), at least 4 new zones, and base raids functioning correctly with IOP's enabled, 2 more hero groups, and this WITHIN THE NEXT 30 DAYS.

Then they can worry about epic ATs, accolades, etc.

I'm not asking that much, I'm just asking to get the same amount of product by buying CoV as I did when I bought CoH.

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Though not a huge MMO fan beyond COH, ill just chime in one one thing. First only 1 monthly fee for both games, or expansion as you see fit to put it. Second though your right, to me by all accounts COV to most COH subscribers was a expansion, and expansions normally cost 30 bucks, i will say that the amount of zones, and AT expansion and changes and additional baddies, infact probably out does what most games like ever quest calls an expansion. Also if a COH subscriber, you have gotten 5 free expansions adding raising the level cap 10 levels, adding Peregrine island, RCS, striga island, croatoa, badges, portal corp missions, monsters and zone events, 2 new Archtypes, PVP arenas, and probably alot more im forgetting in the time COH has been out, before ever needing to "buy" a expansion. Also WoW is coming out with its first expansion in july, it is going to cost 40 dollars, add 1 map zone, raise the level cap and add 2 races if i am not mistaken. For almost the cost of the full game, and actually now 10 dollars more then the full game cost being the game is now at 30 bucks. In 18 months how many everquest expansions would you have to buy 2-3 probably at 30 a peice is more then COV and probably over all less content. IN SWG they have had 3 to purchase expansions and i believe only 1 free one.

All that aside, keep in mind all these games charge the same 15 a month fee. That fee is really for bandwidth and servers which are very very expensive on this scale. But since it was released i dont know of very many MMOs that have GIVEN away the level of expansion that COH has before ever putting out a for purchase expansion like COV. Though i share some concerns to the power sets and so forth seeming just to familar, im am in no way upset with my cov purchase or the amout of money i have spent on coh. I figured it out once, with DSL cost, the monthly service fee, when my first toon hit level 50 at 898 hours i had spend something like .37 cents an hour for my entertainment. Take almost 900 hours worth of movies, or diners, or bar hopping etc, and do you think you would come even close to that kinda of value doing anything else? And it was probably less since i had other toons at the time i just based it as if that is the only one i had played. So all things considered cryptic has earned my purchase of COV many times over in the amount of game play i have recieved.

Here is the thing, if this test wasnt on the live server really it wont mean jack. We have seen several times explanations come in about how this isnt an issue. But when testing off the live servers it always seems to be the same answer. Which is there is no problem. Just like how there was no regen problem back when that was being tested because your internal tests allowed you to be fighting mobs of +6s, oh but someone forgot to turn on the level modifiers or something of that nature.

All players can go off of is experience, none of us can run 40k attack testing in a safe enviroment on a live server. But i can tell you that i normally dont slot my blasters until level 12 so for 12 levels i am fighting with no accuracy modifiers, and even fighting even levels strings of 5 and 6 misses in a row is very common, and before you say numbers and chance, why do we never seem to have the same chance to strings or 6 hits?

Then add even a 1 level modifier to the pot and that miss string goes way way up. Sorry but if your doing anything to the conditions at all to allow for a test, it means your not playing by the same rules we are on live. And to me then it doesnt count, until i see these kinda of numbers on live with no kinda of alterations, that meaning from a actual played character not one that is jerry rigged to take no damage and give no damage, i just wont beleive it. My experience is to different to.

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QUIT SPOILING OUR FUN

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Wouldnt the pieces if you have both games have to be interchangable, that is if they are actually planning for COV villians to be able to go good, and heroes go bad. Otherwise you beast werewolfe montrous form villian goes good and gets transformed into a pig-tailed anime blonde school girl with a shoulder kitten.

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I wonder if ol' Emmert will actually be in front of the computer or if Statesman will just be an NPC. WOW that would be cool to open unlimited bottles of kick butt on the lead designer of CoH.


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You'll have your chance - I'll be playing the one and only Statesman!

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OMG I'm gonna pwn Statesman himself!

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You apparently have never seen a Dev toon at a event like when PVP was being tested. They basicly have ALL power sets. Statesman will probably be like level 54 or something and be able to run all the defenses he hasnt gutted from accrossed all the sets. So expect a (pre issue 3)Instanthealing, (preissue 2)invulnerability scrapper with a sprinkling of super reflexes, running perma unstoppable, lightform MOG and elude. And probably just to add insult to injury he will be running Oppressive gloom for the squishies.

Keep in mind were all supose to die, the server is getting wiped out for the prelaunch weekend and all new villians.

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GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. PISTOL SCRAPPERS BEFORE ALL ELSE!

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Just always been real curious how anyone can consider pistols to be a scrapper set. Unless the range is going tobe like 10 feet with maybe 1 longer range attack, to me a pistol set would be either blasters, like a wierd AR more based around single target damage, or a defender set sorta like trick arrow with fancy different type of cartridge loads. But im sorry at the level of damage scrappers can produce, along with the defenses they get(and i know they are not as great as they once were but are still more then a "ranged" AT gets) it seems to me that the balance of the ranged attacks in scrappers grasps already can kinda unbalance the world. Energy torrent, laser eyes, impale and the claw thingy, already do comparable blaster damage and when criticles hit way over. There are many spine scrapers that already build themselves as a quasi blaster, much like a blapper takes the melee strenght and no defense from the blaster sets.

Sorry but i just dont see how this could possibly not send the world spinning into unbalance. The epic power sets really already did that to a point, but a ranged bases scrapper set, even in a 20-50 foot range would still be way askew to how this game was built to operate. All i really know is if a scrapper can be primarily ranged with integration the whole "blasters are not in the same threat level to get mezz protection" argument is completely blown and i will be expecting to see a regen blaster soon.

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Just to clear some stuff up:

The fact that you did the Task Force is NOT stored on your character anywhere. There is (well, there WAS) no reason to store this, since you could do them over and over again.

Suggestions like "just datamine ME" or "just datamine the level 44+ characters" don't narrow down the database query at all. We still need to look at ALL the data for the specific bits of Task Force related goodness that says "yes, this guy did the Task Force".

As for assigning the badges to those with the souvenirs. That -might- (in the biggest sense of the word) be possible, but it will have to wait until some of the engineers get their heads up from City of Villains to take a look at this. Rest assured that I am looking into this option (which I know doesn't satisfy everyone).

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Ok i understand its not stored on the character, but wouldnt the over all goal be stored on the server records. I dont understand why it would be so hard to take a server image and then just run it through several passes for information pertaining to the central event of a tf. Minning for the record of the defeat of the AV as it was, or whatever applied. Just as the system to award Hamidon enhancments records who has done damage, so would the server record show who had a part in a defeat of a AV. So then you find a defeat it pulls the names off all those that inflicted damage or effects and you got a badge.

The reverse sk system is nice for sure positron, but it doesnt help for those of use that simply dont play the game during heavily populated times. I play commonly from 10pm-4am pacific time, so like 1am-7am eastern. the servers are not very populated and those that are on, dont even alot of times want to run a short trial like sewers or respec. Finding time and groups to run the SS tf or other 4-5 hours TFs just doesnt really happen during this time, and its really uncommon with family and kids and work to find that kinda time during the day.

This was suposed to be the casual players MMO it seems, but you put in missions that require this much time, add after the fact a reward system, and now dont seem to want to support that system. It sounds good on paper to add badges to old TFs, but honestly the only fair, make everyone happy thing would have been to leave well enough alone. New TF or trials new badges dont mess with the old ones. Otherwise i would think we play the good for many card. it keeps more people happy to datamine the badges, then does to not. You and the dev team are happy to not datamine, so the what 50 or so people working at cryptic. while thousands are pissed off about it. Wouldnt it be smart to datamine and keep the majority happy. And understandably with the new game and stuff you i think could easily say that this will happen in stages and over the course of the next 6 months probably after COVs release the issue willbe progressively resolved. I dont need the badges day 1 of issue 5, knowing i will get them in fair order as to not put undue pressure on the developers is fine, as long as i knew it was being handled.

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I'll pop in here so you guys have a new target.

The original Task Force Datamine took 3 months to finish. That was to go over 2 months worth of data.

We now have 18 months worth of data. We looked for a more effecient solution, but our estimates still come out at 2 years to datamine and get you your badges.

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Ummm at the introduction of badges, was in issue 2, which came out in september if i am not mistaken. the game went live in april, that was 5 months worth of badges. Now yes the game has been out like 15 months not 18 but wouldnt it stand to reason since you caught up to atleast september, and since then any badage TF has awarded, and no TF was added acept strigas moonfire and hess, oh and that calvin scott one, and those were added in issue 3, that really your talking about datamining from issue 3 in january to present. So like 8 months and only for 3 TFs, unless your finally badging the SS tfs which still again not added until issue 2 so going back to sept and 1 year, not 18 months.

COH has long herald itself as a game for casual players. Well as what i consider a casual team player in that i play mostly at night, if i get on line during the day for a TF and spend 5 hours completing it, that is a rare luxary. Andnow i wont get reward for it. Nice is all i have to say. I guess at some point not only did the VISION not include multi spawning pets, herding (though powers increase in effectivness as you do), perma click powers, good aoes, good holds, good defense, an useful blaster inherent power, level 50 cotent..... lets see what am i missing? Point being seems like we players are taking alot of changes for the benefit of living out you alls VISION, how bout cutting us some slack and actually doing something for us for a change. And no the current idea of "balancing" is not for us. Its for your ideas to how we should play not how we want to play. But if we live with it, we dont even get credit for the things we did take part in is kinda, i dont know, craptastic to say the least.

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Quijon - Saw you just the other night, nice to know the thread still winds that far back

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Wow with all the names i have been called on these forums, I dont think i have ever made a nicest list before.

And yes im always lurking around in the background somewhere.

Defiance to a upper level blaster is a total and complete waste. As has been stated several times 40 percent is to low a starting point when mobs do 200+ points of damage per attack. Also when that last ditch shot comes around, when your missing it means nothing to have enhanced damage. First i would say a gradual increase in accuracy should accompany the damage. 5-10 percent maybe as you take damage. And i would much rather see the overall buff lowered and it start at higher HPs.

As it is now, its great for my new sonic blaster i basicly let the first mob use me, and then fight at way better damage, against +2-3. And if they kill me so what, i get no debt till level 10 now. But on my level 50, its barely noticable. I even went in the arena, and one on one against a scrapper, it didnt provide enough of a benefit as my health went down to do anything. I think i got 1 point, most times by the time i was doing significant damage, i was 1 hit from death and the scrapper was at 75-90 percent health.

To little to late, is my best opinion. And in comparision to the buffs to scrapper damage, does very little to give any benefit in the arena. Basicly the divide still exists scrappers get critical and damgae boost for doing nothing, we have to be on life support to get anything. And now with scrapper damage buffs, actually probably do get knocked definately to the lower damage class, with out the defenses to justify it. Risk v reward seems to be getting very blurry.

Wow, that was really cool. I wonder if the dancing freaks can be rented out for parties and such?

Great job!

Though i can certianly appreciate that calling the devs bad names and developing a enviroment of defensivness is not ecactly helpful. It still remains that many players would like more clear explanations to why some of there toons are facing adjustments.

First off, though some powers put forth obvious advantages in PVE wich carry over to PVP, there are many players that, though the arena might have provided a nice sidetrack to normal PVE game play, really didnt want to see blanketing adjustments for the purpose of balancing arena play. Personally changes to MOG or Elude only effect me in the people i face in the arena, and since that is a take it or leave it in the overall progression of my characters, I really didnt care if a scrapper ran perma MOG. I dont have to fight him if i dont want to. But those changes in PVE change dramaticly the usefullness and fun that people continued to play this game for.

The change that did most effect me is Lightform. I took on a peacebringer on day one if issue 3, i leveled it to the mid 20s with the forms and really didnt have alot of fun with it and shelfed it. At a low point after finishing the level grind on a controler, i picked it backup, used the free respec to drop forms gets some human strenght going and enjoyed it alot more. But by level 40 with perma lightfrom really felt the AT came into its own. It was not to strong, the drop created weakness, the secondary power set complimented the play style and made the powers must haves, instead of ignorable as so many other "uber" powers do. This was stated over and over by many players in the thread, with no responses.

Simply a single post saying that the power was never intended to be perma(even though it was being tested and designed at the same time as the invulnerability changes to unstoppable) really dosent cut it to me. It might never have been intended, but does that mean it NEEDS to be changed. Hasten was probly never intended to be perma, and was probly looked at by the devs strangly when people slotted 6 recharges instead of defense bonus to it but it doesnt need to be changed. And when the offical lightform thread goes 2 weeks with no responses to these concerns. No support from internal testing as regen or other powers thread got, it makes a player base that worked hard to succeed with a AT that most who could play it gave up on feel even further ignored.

Obviously Stateman and the Devs cant spend all day responding to every post on the forums. But when clearly some issues are getting greater response then others, the ones being ignored will tend to get jaded. Another good example is the blaster forums. Cries of blancing the AT went forward for months, last count i think was 5 months before we got even a "were gonna look at it" response with no promises to when. Unfortunately in my eyes those that scream the loudest tend to get the notice. The lightform thread is like 10 pages the regen i believe is well over 30. Just because less people play kheldians(which is by devs design not player choice due to the level 50 requirment) i dont feel the players posting concerns in a thread offically started to get that response from the community should feel ignored.

Why is lightform changed? It has weekness, its blanaced really to me to the level of the normal scrapper defenses, its weakness is evident every 2 minutes, it requires secondary set support, and offers things needed for the AT like mez resistances that unlike other sets is not found in any other power the set offers. Its a strong power that falls well below the capabilities of a elude or MOG or unstoppable did this was stated time and time again by players in that thread with no response. No justification beyond the need to nerf MOG and elude, when its a completely different monster.

Thought I can appreciate what you do for the community, unfortunately the forums still seem to be a who makes the biggest stink gets the most notice enviroment. The Quantum Fly changes would be another great example. Though i dont have aproblem with it as a phase shift power, as a promised max speed travel power for the AT taking the at will ability away from it with out offering a travel related alternative seemed a bad choice. But that thread i believe has been up since issue 4 hit test and i think still has no response or evidence that the devs even recognize the concerns, much less hear the worries of the community.

Over all i understand my example are probly more my personal issues, but then as i said i will leave it up to a SR player to argue their causes, i can only use examples i have tracked. But i hope my post has illustrated that when repsonses, test results, and general recognition of the players concerns happen only to the most popular threads, it leaves alot of the community i think feeling over looked, and that our issues are ignored as not effecting enough people for the devs to care.

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I'm not opposed to players being able to make informed decisions. I'm opposed to "players who have invested their time and have obtained rewards legitimately" being treated as though they did something wrong.

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I don't consider it "wrong"...because I would like to do it myself. I cannot. Apparently my connection won't handle the Hami raid. So I'm left out in the cold while others can put in the "work" to gain an advantage over me. This effectively takes away the PvP option from me. I was looking forward to it...

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Actually, it only takes away the 45-50 portion of it, and even then it might not. (Teamwork for the win.) You'll still have 15-45 to play around with it.

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They are availible in level 45s, and connection or not can be gotten. On the new system anyone on a team that does damage, gets one. If you have friends or SG mates that go to raids, simply ask to come with them, Explain your situation, i know for my end if a SG member or in game friend had the same problem i would have no issue letting them team, and i guess leech a hamiO for there time. But basicly you dont have to be in the thick of it. Infact depending on your build a defender or something could operate outside of the mass, teleporting fallen team mates, and rezing etc. But just being on the team will get you a HamiO

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The problem with what you say in the above post is the lack of slots sure kheldians can tank...in dwarf form nearly as well as true tanks if slotted.... sure novas are high damage output fragile blasters if slotted.... sure our human powers are slightly weaker the defender powers if slotted. Where am I going with this is that to get the versatility we have to slot all three forms If we fail to slot dwarf it is a horrible tanker and not worth taking if you don't slot nova you have a very weak blaster with extremely weak defenses and no status protection.
If you don't slot human powers your attacks and defenses both suck.

It appears the only effective way to play these AT's is via respec. play human (mandatory) till level 6... Play nova till level 25 (when the start of the every group has a status effect attacker in it) Play Dwarf from 25- 35ish start at 25 cause thats when ya can have resists slotted and maybe an attack or two so you can actually defeat a villain instead of boring him to death. At 35 you can go back to human form and slot up your human attacks and defenses at the expense of the forms.

The getting the forms later then level 1 is also a big negative as we can't start to slot our tank till level 20 it takes until late 20's to get slotted to be effective for only a couple of levels before it is better to just start slotting the human form as you can get resistances up to acceptable levels at that time with more attacks and more auxilliary powers available to you.

My proposal would not be more slots as this would somehow not seem fair to non epic AT's. But to assume each sub power of the form is slotted with 3 of the level appropriate enhancements throughout your leveling (1-15 TO 15-25 DO 25+ SO) This would give the form a big benefit right out of the box and also at the same time keep them from becoming overpowered. You could still slot the base form power with to hit buffs and end recovery or resist buff in dwarf. I think this alone would make the alternate forms good enough to use at high levels and for the base form to be worth putting slots in.

As it is now at higher levels people are skipping the forms totally( respeccing out of them or just not selecting them at all) due to the cost in slots to make them anywhere near effective.

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I alway thought that the forms should represent an extension of how we make our human character. So as a peacebring when i take nova novas damage is basicly a averageof how many damage slots i have on human powers plus the nova bonus. SO the stronger attacking human i make the stronger nova, and same is true for dwarf the base resistance is figured by how defensively i built my human and then can add slots to max it if i want. But basicly rather then having the forms be so independant that they are to costly to use, have there base values be an extension of your human form for damage, defense or whatever applies to that form. with there form bonus, meaning nova bonus damage, dwarf resistancea dn status protection. and have there end rec be based on either slotting the form or how your end rec is slotting in human.

But losing HP is a bad idea. Even minus the resistance, atleast PB are more tanker/scrappers then blasters. THe damage resides in melee attacks, with week range. Our hp were not scrapperish to start i think they were around 15 percent higher then blasters, but with the shields and the defenses, weaker attacks that still seems fair.

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To the OP, what do you think Kheldian's roles should be?


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My point has always been that Kheldians should be diverse. We were told that they could be really whatever they wanted. That isnt true. The person posting that says he has a 3 form guide, i looked at it, to keep nova form at what he calls a good point he has used 15 slots, just under a quarter the total slots you get for the whole game. But to put it more in perspective, that is basicly every slot you get between level 8 and and 20. Isnt that a rediculous amout of slotting to dedicate to essentially one of 22 powers you select. And that is my point. when you start lookin at slots for nova that do no good if in any other forms, and slots for dwarf, and slots for stamina and hasten, it leaves everything poorly slotted. And in his guide the two single shots have no slotting, so they will likely do less damage then a typical tanker attack in most mid level gaming. Again his guide points out my concerns exactly, there is no flexibility, everyone that keeps nova only keeps it for the AOE power, dwarf for status protection, human for the control aspects. How are we even a jack of all trades with one heal, one control power (and again i play a peace bringer). Yes those can be utility but they make playing forms almost a waste of time if you spend half a fight waiting for animations to transform you. Or how do you heal a teammate close to death when you just taunted a group to you in dwarf form.

I know people disagree with me but to me the forms should be secondary to the human and serve to add bonuses at the cost of other atributes and shouldnt require the kinda of slotting commitment they do. That is why i say that nova should reflect and average of how many damages you have on your powers, plus its inherent damge bonus. so that the powers do more damage then your human shape, but dont require 15-20 slots to make them that way. Same thing dwarf base resistance can figure an average of damage resistances on your shields. and then you can slot for end rec and increase the resistance on the base of the power. The forms are powers, and no power requires the kinda of slotting that they do to make them viable.

Like i said i abandoned forms after i read statemans response. TO me it is obivous that the devs developed the characters to shine in human, team forms. Which is to bad, because since this game came out people on these boards have clamored wanting a shapeshifting AT. Unfortunately it comes at a cost to expensive to use for to little return. But again that is my opinion, and i dont speak for everyone or know everything. It is possible at a future time i can respec back in a form, but with light form coming at level 38 i dont see a reason to maintain dwarf form when i get the same thing with alot better damage in human form. I can solo Freak tank bosses in human form, sneak up behind void stalkers and knock them on there [censored] before they get a shot off at me with the melee strikes, what nova has no defense, and dwarf kills them to slowly. To me the strenght i am seeing now is that in human form dedicating my slotting to those powers, i am basicly a melee blaster with sheilds. The melee PB attacks are on par damage wise with those of the energy manipulation set and the ranges are weaker, but still ok as a secondary to the melee. With the defneses, hasten perma, stamina, and dull pain and a self heal, i actually think i am doing better then i did in dwarf. I havent had to run yet, and only died SK to a level 50 fighting Nightstar when she set off nova. (but i havent taken the energy shield yet either that was next on my list)

Over all my opinion is that nova and dwarf are broken. In much the same way they have claimed other powers were. I guess i will just have to wait for more people to reach upper levels and let them datamine how many people keep the forms to see that they need to be addressed.