Oedipus_Tex

I'm actually somewhat disatisfied with the standard models of defense and resistance, regen not withstanding. Not because they are completely wrong or not somewhat helpful, but because I feel people trust them too literally. The same with DPS models and other such things. One day if I feel like dealing with the board hate I may write a detailed explanation of my issues with this type of assessment.

That's not to say I think such models aren't useful. They demonstrate something, I'm just not always sure it's something as conclusive as what's assumed. It's a little bit like deciding whether to wear a coat based on a weather report rather than the fact that you opened the door and found out it was 30 degrees outside. Although the flip side of that is only trusting subjective experience, which can also lead astray.

The short explanation though is this. You are rarely, if ever, in an "average" situation, so any talk of averages can only be theoretical. The average models, of Defense in particular, fall apart when the numbers get too extreme, which happens in particular on squishy characters. You simply cannot look at a 5% chance to die in two hits as the same as taking 5% of incoming total damage, which is what you do when you map Defense over to Resistance using 1% D = 2% R model. Nor can you view a chance to get hit by a DoT that takes 6 seconds to deliver its full damage payload the same as a huge upfront damage spike. Survivability models are still useful, but they flatten a lot of realistic real world scenarios onto a flat posterboard that as often as not does not present the full scenario.

I'm looking at the numbers for Spines RE: -Recharge.

Here is the AoE potential -Recharge out of Spines if I'm not mistaken. I'm using Scrapper numbers because I can't locate a Brute power with -Recharge to see if they have a different modifier:
Spine Burst: -8% for 8 seconds, 3 second cast time
Quills: -8% (unstackable with self)
Ripper: -8% for 10 seconds, 2.17 second cast time
Throw Spines: -16% for 10 seconds, 1.63 second cast time

So that's about -40% Recharge after Spine Burst >> Ripper >> Throw Spines, which before Arcanatime can step in to make times longer, takes around 6.8 seconds to animate. At this point the -Recharge in Spine Burst is about to expire, but I guess you could chain back around and reliably sustain -50-60% Recharge in AoE over time. That means the enemy is attacking about 1/2 as fast as normal once you've built up the debuff. All of this is assuming you have the Recharge to keep cycling these powers back to back.

However -Recharge is not that straight forward. While you were spending 6.8 seconds building -Recharge, the enemy is theoretically attacking back. If it's not attacking back (maybe you knocked it down or something), then -Recharge is probably not going to have much of an effect on this fight at all, because -Recharge only has an effect on enemies after they take a swing at you. If you mezz or knock an enemy down, it has often either 1) not expended 1 or more powers and therefor not subject to a -Recharge penalty on them or 2) is out of the fight for now but its powers are still recharging anyway, limiting how much impact the actual -Recharge is having on preventing them from attacking again.

Also, -Recharge is an effect over time, not an instant effect like -ToHit that only has implications the moment the attack roll is made. When enemies launch their alpha, they are not debuffed at all, so any time they spend under no -Recharge penalty means they are actually Recharging quite a bit faster than the predicted 1/2 speed. Because of this you can expect a full wave of attacks back in your face shortly after enemies take their initial round of attacks. By the time you've built up enough -Recharge to make it significant with Spines, the enemy should be close to dead. Unless you're fighting +4s or something, and those resist -Recharge effects by 48%, making your reduction in their Recharge times not even noticeable (assuming you can get them to around -30% Recharge, which is only increasing their Recharge times minimally--a power with a 6 second recharge recharges in about 8.5 seconds which is better than nothing, but if 2.5 seconds messes up your Fury bar its a wonder what actual mezzes would do.)

And in all of this time a Dark Armor could have stunned the enemy for ~10 seconds with Oppressive Gloom, which reactivates every 2 seconds and can essentially permastun a minion.

Single target is such a wash it's not even really worth considering, but for the record, here are the numbers:
Barb Swipe: -8% for 2 seconds
Lune: -8% for 4 seconds
Impale: -8% for 8 seconds

All of this is not to say that -Recharge isn't the reason the devs didn't bring this set over, or that -Recharge isn't effective in some circumstances. It's just to say that if -Recharge was the reason, it wasn't really justified, unless Fury used to work very very differently than it does now. I have never actually seen the original version of it but I can't imagine how -Recharge could ever have effected it in the negative ways the devs apparantly believed it would.

What I've long wondered about this is why Shields don't suffer the same flaw. You don't pull the shield out after every attack, as if "stance" is a setting per hand and not per body. The game also somehow knows when you carry a shield not to use the two-handed animation for certain powers. Like--I assume since I've never tried it--Air Superiority.

Overall Shields seems like a much more intrusive system, so it's hard for me to say that redraw issues are completely unfixable, even if the result is some animations only animating with one hand (mainly the "put my hand to my head" psi blast types.) Most other powers I can think of don't have what look like would be significant amount of clipping issues. The "tarzan" animation in Tough, maybe. What's tricky though is Archery actually holds the bow in a different hand than Assault Rifle. Not sure how the game resolves this with temp powers and Shields.. isn't there even a temp power with a bow and arrow?

Just my two cents on this. While it would open up a few possible combos, Dark Miasma is already so control oriented that I'm not sure its worth the rehash. Personally I'd rather they spend time on control (and any other) sets that head into totally new territory, the way Shields and Dual Pistols did. Especially since we just got Elec Control, which by my count is the 6th time we've received that particular element in a set--Blast, Manipulation, Armor, Melee, Assault, and now Control. That's just my opinion though. Now if it was Water, Insect, Time, Planar, Luck, or really anything else I'd be all over it.

In fairness, the music in Praetoria is a lot better. CoV has a few catchy tunes too.

But I always wished they'd go back, chunk all of the original music from CoH except maybe the main game theme, and start over. One song per map instead of per neighborhood would do wonders.

I like, BTW, how they've started adding panicked music to AV fights. Now if only some of the older fights could get that.

I would drop Clarity for Aim. Clarity is mostly redundant with Sonic Dispersion. Aim will take you a lot further.

I would drop Fly, use a Jet Pack, and pick up Hasten or Combat Jumping depending on how you sort out Defenses. Regarding that, the difference between 41% and something close to 45% (say 44.5 and above) is huge. I would definitely try to close that gap.

Sonic Cage is pretty awful. A few people have this for one specific Task Force or another but personally I find this power extremely lackluster. I might use it if it were a free temporary power but as it stands I don't find it worth a slot.

Atomic Blast is an "up to you" power. I find it ok. I would prefer Irradiate to Atomic Blast because it ends up doing way more total damage when you factor in adequate Recharge and the fact that Irradiate doesn't tank endurance.

Since Power Boost doesn't work on Sonic shields, I'd consider dropping Soul Mastery for Dark Mastery, where Soul Drain recharges twice as fast. However if you're going to do that you might as well have Irradiate. With its fast cast time Irradiate does very good damage and is a big hit to -Defense as well. If you combine Irradiate with Oppressive Gloom and the faster recharging Soul Drain you will have a better melee-ish presence. The stun in Opp Gloom will stack with Cosmic Burst if a boss/lt tries to melee you. Hovering about 10ft off the ground during dangerous fights will still let you use Irradiate, stun minions that try to stand directly below you, and still hit things within about 12-15ft with Irradiate (due to its 20ft radius, 5ft bigger than Fireball and the like).

I agree with the poster above about Stamina.

I always love this thread. It's only a matter of days before someone says "Hey, hey, guys, why are you complaining when Obfunxious Spicklenorsk and Langiappe Sassoon are still available?"

They aren't directly comparable.

You can hit a theoretical (actually, maybe not so theoretical) point where your Regen exceeds incoming damage and you will never die versus the damage you are facing. Resistance and Defense alone will always eventually result in your death. However since all characters have some base Regen it doesn't quite play out that harshly. It's just that Regen by itself approaches infinite survivability while neither Defense or Resistance alone does the same on their own.

Leaving Resistance out, a character with soft capped defense dodging an attack that does 1500 damage has a 1 in 20 chance to take that damage. A character with normal defense (facing same level enemies) has a 1 in 2 chance to take that damage. If the damage killed the character in one hit there is nothing to Regen because the character is dead.

Keep in mind that armor models as they are presented on the boards are almost always treated as if the person is a Scrapper or Tanker type and base assumptions about chance from there. Real life chances for squishier characters are very different because most of them are not trying to tank through the damage, and are only handling a few die rolls at a time. This means the odds are much less likely to normalize within an individual exchange of fire.

I'm not sure if these are funny exactly. That all 3 of them involve instances of dying hopefully won't discourage anyone from teaming with me in the future.

Both are worth playing. Earth/Rad is probably easier. Ice/Rad is probably the most unlike anything you'll play in this game or any other.

Mechanically, Ice Control is expert mode. The pet is just ok, the controls are imperfect, and the whole operation is just overall somewhat dangerous. However, Ice Control does have the advantage that it sails past team encounters with lots of bosses or elite bosses who have mezz protection, because most of them don't have knockdown or slow protection/resistance. These encounters are rare, but you'll know you've hit them when the Plant and Fire Controllers suddenly eat a face full of return fire from a group that's immune to their powers. This is more likely to happen in difficult AE missions than the general game, FYI.

Earth/Rad is very good, and very direct. It's sort of 101 on all of the different things Controllers in general can do. And it is very good at those things. The only real downside is the lack of a Confuse power.

Despite concerns about relative power, my semi-IOed Ice/Rad was able to beat the level 50 Elite Bosses in the Incarnate arc solo. He can also solo Carnies on +0x8 as long as bosses are turned off. He has Indom Will down to about a 10 second gap, which means Arctic Air and Choking Cloud are always up. Glacier is mechanically identical to other AoE holds but has much more effective graphics that actually communicate that enemies are restrained. The only real issue is the endurance. But alpha slots have helped a lot with that.

Weren't Brutes rebalanced to do less damage than Scrappers?

I would switch to the Psi APP and shoot for something like the build below. I assumed the Spiritual Alpha slot. The build focus is Ranged defense and Recharge with supporting Slash/Lethal Resistance. The biggest change is the addition of mezz protection. The build is also soft capped to Psi damage most of the time.

The build has some stunt-slotting. Mainly Arctic Air. You should be able to pull off that level of endurance reduction once the build is close to complete, but not before, because it depends on the endurance recovery bonus from a near-perma Heat Loss.

Note that the build doesn't have perma Hasten, intentionally. Slotting Spiritual alpha fixes this and saves you that slot. Same with Ice Slick, Sleet, and Indom Will (which may not quite hit perma).

The alternative Ice APP build is very similar, dropping Resistance shields for a defense one. IMO losing mezz protection is not worth it. However, you have no self heal, so I'd bring greens. I still think the layered defense that an AA that will not toggle-drop on you is far superior to other options.


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.90
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Ice Control
Secondary Power Set: Cold Domination
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Block of Ice -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(3), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(3), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(5), Apoc-Dmg(39), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 1: Infrigidate -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Chilblain -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(13), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 4: Ice Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 6: Arctic Air -- CoPers-Conf/Rchg(A), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(7), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(7), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(9), CoPers-Conf%(9), CoPers-Conf(11)
Level 8: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(11), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(15), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(36), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40), RedFtn-Def(43)
Level 10: Glacial Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 12: Ice Slick -- Range-I(A)
Level 14: Frostbite -- GravAnch-Immob/Rchg(A), GravAnch-Hold%(33), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg(37), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg(39), GravAnch-Immob/EndRdx(39)
Level 16: Boxing -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(17), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(17), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(19), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(19), Stpfy-KB%(27)
Level 18: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 20: Arctic Fog -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def(21), RedFtn-EndRdx(21), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(23), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(23), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 22: Weave -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def(27), RedFtn-EndRdx(29), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(29), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(31), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 26: Glacier -- UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(A), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(36), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(36), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(37), UbrkCons-Hold(37)
Level 28: Benumb -- RechRdx-I(A), Acc-I(40), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), DefBuff-I(31), Zephyr-ResKB(40), Ksmt-ToHit+(45)
Level 32: Jack Frost -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(33), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(34), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(34)
Level 35: Sleet -- Achilles-ResDeb%(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 38: Heat Loss -- Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(A), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(43), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(45), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(46)
Level 41: Mental Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Indomitable Will -- RechRdx-I(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(46), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 47: Psionic Tornado -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dam%(50)
Level 49: Mind Over Body -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A)
------------



Set Bonus Totals:

• 13% DamageBuff(Smashing)
• 13% DamageBuff(Lethal)
• 13% DamageBuff(Fire)
• 13% DamageBuff(Cold)
• 13% DamageBuff(Energy)
• 13% DamageBuff(Negative)
• 13% DamageBuff(Toxic)
• 13% DamageBuff(Psionic)
• 3% Defense(Smashing)
• 3% Defense(Lethal)
• 3% Defense(Fire)
• 3% Defense(Cold)
• 17.38% Defense(Energy)
• 17.38% Defense(Negative)
• 3% Defense(Psionic)
• 3% Defense(Melee)
• 24.25% Defense(Ranged)
• 3% Defense(AoE)
• 2.25% Max End
• 3% Enhancement(Stun)
• 46% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 107.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 4% Enhancement(Confused)
• 5% FlySpeed
• 41.97 HP (4.126%) HitPoints
• 5% JumpHeight
• 5% JumpSpeed
• Knockback (Mag -4)
• Knockup (Mag -4)
• MezResist(Confused) 2.5%
• MezResist(Held) 2.5%
• MezResist(Immobilize) 11.85%
• MezResist(Sleep) 2.5%
• MezResist(Stun) 2.5%
• MezResist(Terrorized) 2.5%
• 21% (0.351 End/sec) Recovery
• 10% (0.425 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 10% Resistance(Smashing)
• 10% Resistance(Lethal)
• 20.4% Resistance(Fire)
• 20.4% Resistance(Cold)
• 10% Resistance(Energy)
• 10% Resistance(Negative)
• 10% Resistance(Toxic)
• 10% Resistance(Psionic)
• 5% RunSpeed

During my brief run as a MUD adminstrator I found it helpful to read the forums but have an instant cut-off policy for tantrums and personal attacks. I would just stop reading if it got too heated and move to the next post. I was mostly behind the scenes as far as players knew; what they weren't aware of is that I had multiple identities, and interacted with them as a different "person" when I had to admonish them in some way versus the "person" who wrote spells and such.

Anyway, keeping your finger on the pulse of the game is important, simply because 1000s of players bumping against a system will end up using your designs differently than you imagined. For example, I once wrote a spell that had a great description that Paladins in the game loved, but the effects of the spell were pretty awful. Result: worse than if the spell just sucked, because now the players were agonizing over not being able to take this spell that looked awesome but wasn't useful. Unfortunately I left the game before ever fixing that. Those poor Paladins with a Time Bomb of their own.

(I suppose I could feel guilty about it if Paladins weren't already overpowered. ;D )

I just hope someone in a cubicle at Paragon Studios reads this thread and thinks 'I have the coolest job ever.'

While this train is off the tracks...

I haven't followed comic books actively since the 'X-Craze" of the early 90s, and apparently missed a lot of development since then. This was back when Rob Liefield was doing X-Force, and like, Nike commercials, and Peter David was writing the now-classic X-Factor issues that often avoided fight scenes to talk about character's feelings (including one fairly well remembered issue that took place entirely in a psychiatrist's office).

So, fast forward 19 years, to 2009. Peter David is back on X-Factor, and they have a Statesline of their own when Shattershot and Rictor get involved with each other. Liefield gets on his message board, announces that the Shattershot character wasn't gay when he created him, and that if he ever gets a say in it he plans to"undo" that plot decision.

Now it so happens that this gets reported on a a certain blog. And that's how this thread got started, in which the current writer and original creator exchange barbs: http://robot6.comicbookresources.com...r-development/ (You have to scroll a ways down to see the start of the action).

It's such a bizarre look into the same issues we've sort of been talking around, in terms of character identity, good writing, and 'canon.' It's also funny to watch two famous comic book gurus flame each other too, just like we do.

This reply probably won't make me very popular, but here are my two cents. I'd prepare myself for either a very marginalized character who is always holding back or one who constantly irritates the rest of the team.

Don't mistake lack of commentary for support of the combo. If your teammates are me, they will not complain, will wait till the end of the mission, and quietly excuse themselves from the group. I've had to do that a lot lately because of an influx of "Look, I'm contributing!" Storm Defenders and Masterminds who believe the hype that knockback is good as a hold. It can be, but you have to leverage it with a chisel. On a large team Storm/Energy is the worst kind of wrecking ball; one that not only scatters enemies, it fails to do enough damage to justify it. The alternative is just not using most of your powers, which is another kind of waste.

As a soloist, dedicated team member or small team specialist? Ok, maybe.

Alternatives to Storm/Energy are Gravity/Storm/Primal trollers and Storm/Dual Pistols Defenders, who are similar overall, but either much safer or offer much more debuff, both with more rational and deliberate knockback potential. It's not that knockback itself is always bad, but being stuck with it on all of your powers with no ability to shut it off eventually becomes a liability.

Good build overall.

Personally I wouldn't skip Power Boost either. In the current build boosts the duration of the Confusion from AA from 5.5 seconds to 8 while it's active. With just one Recharge IO in this build it would be up almost half the time. Glacier's ~31 second duration is on same level enemies; against +4s it's closer to 15 seconds. Power Boost brings that up to about 25 seconds on +4s.

Oblits in Ice Sword Circle may crash your endurance bar hard, since there is so little endurance recovery in there.

I would personally take Hibernate over Hoarfrost, especially since you don't have slots to devote to it.

Arctic Air can be slotted with 5 pieces from the Coerc Persuasion set, with the final one Endurance, netting those bonuses with only a slight increase in endurance costs, and increasing the duration of the confuses. With Power Boost the total duration becomes 8.7 seconds.

Unsure about the Accuracy in Boxing. I assume that's a mistake. I would consider either putting that into Stamina for the proc, putting it in Combat Jumping for a Kismet, or putting it in Ice Slick to add Range. The reason I like Range in Ice Slick is that that power makes a fantastic opener from around a corner.

I would think any new Defense purple set would basically just clone the existing purples and replace everything with Defense. Mainly because the existing Defense sets are really, really powerful.

IMO the sets that are currently MIA are Knockback, Slow, Fear, and Intangible.

I wouldn't be opposed to a few totally new categories either. Repel in particular, even though you can't normally enhance it. It might look something like:

Endurance
Recharge
Endurance/Recharge
Endurance/Range
Range
Contagious Stun (using Contagious Confusion as a model)

I would look to go Ice/Cold/Psi. Picking up Indom Will so that enemies can't detoggle AA makes a world of difference.

I'm surprised by the endurance issues. Have you taken and slotted Heat Loss?