Oedipus_Tex

While I somewhat see your point, I think this is a matter of perspective. It's similar to the POV that DoTs are doing lower damage than one big hit because of the smaller individual orange numbers.

To compare to other powers, what is "up-time" of Judgment? Is only being able to do extra damage some of the time really that different than only being able to throw Judgement ~2.5 times during that same time? Outside of the usefulness of burst, Judgment can be viewed as just another damage stream like Hybrid Damage is.

I can't prove it, but I bet an Arcanaville type can show that Hybrid Damage does significantly more damage than Judgment over the long term for most characters. Just the 10% all-the-time buff to damage is actually not that far off from what I believe Aim gives some ATs over the long haul.


Some toons could handle 5 end/sec. Some Cold Dominators, for example, and possibly some people with Drain Psyche.

But for most characters, keep in mind 5 end/sec means even if they just stood there doing nothing, they would run out of endurance in less than 30 seconds. That's assuming you had pretty good recovery and no other toggles running. Once you factor that in, and then factor in actually using powers, I'd wager on a melee character toggle dropping in about 8-12 seconds.

Actually, no, I haven't seen that pattern. I have seen a pattern of people saying that is a pattern, but not that actual pattern.

The actual pattern is either the complaints or the datamining or both eventually result in changes either to the trial itself to make it more attractive and/or easier, the buffing of rewards, or proposed changes to nerf trials that are more popular.

Let's not forget how narrowly we evaded a nerf for BAF and Lambda that would have eliminated drops after unlocking certain slots. That outcome is important to remember for two reasons: it was proposed precisely because people were not running other trials in sufficient volumes, and it was revoked because players complained. People tend to count that as zero changes to trials when in fact it is 4: two to add the effect in, and two more to remove it.

In this case it sounds like something is probably wonky, and if its the target cap, that's yet another change.

You're right in a sense. Under the current structure of the game, .5 end/second is managable for some builds. But it was actually the fact that it was managable that got it in trouble, because the function of the endurance cost was meant to limit how often the power could be used.

The real issue, overall, was that a lot of builds could manage 0.5 end/sec--if they went Cardiac Alpha and/or Ageless Destiny. A lot people commented (and I more or less agree with that feedback) that if Hybrid's only obstacle was endurance, selecting incarnate abilities would be a lot less interesting because most characters would be forced down the exact same route just to maintain the powers.

(This is what led me to suggest to the developers in the original thread that we need a seperate "incarnate endurance" source, so we all enter on the same ground and cost management can be performed more easily on their end.)

Pretty much what Zombie said above is true. The original intention was that the toggle have a cost high enough that it would force a decision on whether to run it. Trouble is, that just doesn't work with endurance, because that means its cost prohibitive on some characters and a freebie for others.


What follows is a kind of long suggestion that deviates from the topic at hand, read at your own risk:

What I have suggested to the developers in the past is that we need a new type of endurance, "incarnate endurance" if you will, that recovers independentally of your core powers. I'll call it "Moxie" as shorthand.

Just to give some background on how that might work, I'd consider having two values: Determinant Moxie and Expedient Moxie (DM and EM for these purposes). Both display on the same "energy bar." Essentially, some powers use DM (usually the most powerful ones) and some use EM (usually the more every-day ones).

EM is basically like Current Endurance is now. It's used for casting most incarnate abilities expediently. Your EM bar can fill up to 50% on its own. To go higher than that, you need to first move your DM.

DM is basically like Max Endurance is now. It doesn't recharge on its own. In this case, it's recovered by beating incarnate enemies, primarily, or else expending resources to refill it. It would be like if you played a bunch of trials, your Max Endurance stat could grow, and you use some very powerful abilities only at the cost of some of that Max Endurance.

The reason for this set up is three fold:
- Everyone enters into it on the same basic playing field, with no build having special advantages
- It creates a decision-making cost for players when deciding when and how to use powerful abilities
- It creates a reason to occasionally revisit incarnate trials and missions. If you don't want to, you can still use your EM powers pretty effectively. DM powers are intended primarily for the hard trials and you can use them a few times, but then they need to be recharged. This prevents simply having to completely block the use of any incarnate abilities in older parts of the game. You can use them, but they are really designed for the newer, more difficult areas, where they can be more easily maintained.


Anyway, if I were setting up Hybrid under such a system, it would basically work all the time, but have a steep EM cost. Since Destiny and Judgement would be draining from the same pool, you would have to manage your Moxie basically the way they originally intended you to manage your Endurance, except everyone enters under the same playing field. You could increase your DM to give you more breathing room, at least until you unleash Super Mega Overpowered Nuke later on, or whatever other truly overpowered, but balanced-for-cost ability awaits up the incarnate chain.

I'm departing from the original discussion, but I actually wish they would abandon "proc on hit" mechanics altogether. That is unless they want to delve into normalizing power cast times. Fire Blast as the premiere healing set would be a funny outcome, although it's really not too far from where we are now, with Plant Control's Roots power being one of the best AoE blasts in the game.

I would probably aim to just make it add power to your temp power tray. Left side PBAoE heal, right side Heal Other and Resurrect type powers. Or you could go left: AB clone, right: heal clones, so even a "healer" build could pick up the one side of it and benefit.

I was actually wrong. Aid Other doesn't have Stun Resistance, although Aid Self does, like you said.

Whatever one may think of this trial, I don't agree with that characterization of the other trials at all.

Around 50% of the trials had their content revised or their reward structures altered to entice to people to play them after their release. UG, MoM, TPN, and Keyes were all unmitigated busts upon their debut and were only revised specifically because people were avoiding them.

But that's not all. The developers also planned to nerf BAF and Lambda rewards, precisely because we were all avoiding the other trials in favor of those 2. That change actually made it past the planning stage and into a beta, and was removed when players flipped their tops.