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The obvious solution to the problems of an Unlock EAT T/SF is to just make it a story-arc. That way you can solo it and AVs/Heroes would just downscale to EBs, so even the weakest of Defenders should be able to do it on the lowest difficulty with liberally-applied inspirations.
Much as I love more content, though, I think I still prefer the Unlock At 20 approach. -
Leaders usually do their own missions. At least I do. If someone asks me if they can do their mission, I'll put their mission up, but generally people join a team assuming I'll make the choice, and I choose my missions.
I get mission completion XP, I get arc completion XP, I get Reward Merits, I get Mentor badges, and I get the XP bonus of being in a team. In the case of the first three, I can get them solo, in the case of the last one everyone gets the bonus and the Mentor badges have no tangible effect. That's irrelevant. All these things add up when I'm on the team.
Some people don't want to lead teams. They like being part of teams, but they feel that leading a team is too much responsibility or too much effort and they just don't want to. They'll join teams if there are any, but generally they don't mind soloing until something comes up. Then there's people that really like teaming, so for that maximum teaming experience, they'll form their own. They'll join a team if one shows up, but if there's none, well, they know how to make one.
Then there's also people that want to team and absolutely refuse to solo but they feel that making a team is too much work but frankly, if they decide to be absolutely at the mercy of everyone else, then they're out of luck.
Ultimately, I doubt this will do much good either way. This sound like something that's there to benefit that last group, the peole who want to team no matter what but don't form their own teams. Leading teams in CoH is already such an easy business that I doubt any form of bribery can change that. If asking people to join your team and then set a mission is too much for you, well, the only thing that'll change is that people will ask for the star on TFs. Everything else will remain the same except leaders will just outlevel the rest. -
At first, I thought this might be a good idea. I know some are afraid of a huge influx of jerks, but to me that always sounded more like paranoida and agoraphobia.
But then I realised: This game is based ENTIRELY on instances. Even in the case of World PvP being made, you could go to the other faction's residence and still don't find anyone because they're all inside instances, anyway. There's no reason NOT to be in an instance in CoH. If you really want world PvP, you'd go to a place where such people would gather, and coincidentally that just so happen to be PvP zones.
I'm ambivalent towards the idea, but ultimately it would be an excercise in futility, not because this is a PvE game and because PvPers are evil soulless devils, but because this is an instance-based game. World PvP means nothing because in CoH the open world means nothing. -
Count me in the "likes the idea, but sounds like too much dev-effort" camp.
As much as I'd like the feature, we already have sitting emotes for chairs, benches, ledges and such. Sure, there's lots of clipping involved and it's everything but perfect, but sitting is already in the game. The Walk power had no equivalent in the game and so it was a boon to RPers, but with sitting already in the game, I'm not sure the devs would really want to make a new and intricate sitting system. -
If you solo a lot, World of Confusion is potentially-useful. As Derangedpolygot mentioned, if enemies stay in your melee range, they'll also likely stay confused and attack each other.
HOWEVER, even then, it's usefulness is dubious. At higher levels, more and more enemies start getting holds or sleeps and stuns and what-have-you. All these powers actually turn your WoC toggle off. Whenever I log into my Psionic/Mental Blaster I turn WoC off, but soon into any gaming session I'll be hit by a hold and completely forget I ever had WoC and forget to turn it on again.
Now, if you team up a lot, you're likely to have meatshields to soak up damage for you. WoC still might be kinda-sorta potentially when-the-stars-align-correctly useful, but honestly, it's a power that I often forget I even had. Really, "fogettable" is a good word describing the power.
As for fixing it? If they made it so that the toggle doesn't get turned off when you're mezzed, that might be a good first step. That might be considered broken, though. I'm no game designer so I don't dare say anything on matters of game balance. -
Quote:I vaguely recall reading that Praetoria is divided into five districts with Tyrant's Tower in the middle of them. I think that's where the number comes from.A quick question here...where did the 5 zone info come from? All of the information I've read/heard has said "several new zones" with no specific number. If you've got a source for that it would be appreciated so that someone can update the wiki and info posts.
I also recall reading that Praetoria won't have any war walls, and with no copious amounts of water to separate zones like in the Rogue Isles, there's speculation that Praetoria will be a huge super-zone of sorts, with the five districts possibly having different level-ranges for mobs. That'd make them functionally zones but still make Praetoria feel like a coherent and cohesive world and not a bunch of zones connected with loading screens.
Of course this is purely speculation so you need to take all that with a grain of salt. -
Quote:You are a horrible person.Just pad the villain content with more missions, hunts and defeat-alls. Problem solved.
I always universally liked the 'normal' Strike Forces over the 'normal' Task Forces. The fact that they're more streamlined is one thing. As far as I'm aware, the old Task Forces were made with the idea in mind that they should be done in multiple runs, and when red-side came, the devs realised from data-mining that people just do these in one long run, anyway and made the new Strike Forces accordingly.
Then there's also the fact that the Strike Forces all tend to be more varied, with more maps and enemy groups, sometimes even including unique maps and enemies you don't see otherwise.
Meanwhile, well, let's look at Synapse, Citadel, Sister Psyche and Manticore. Synapse? Clockwork. Sister Psyche? Freakshow. Manticore? Crey. Hell, Citadel is literally the same mission repeated until you run into a random AV. At least the other Task Forces use different maps to break the monotony.
I personally had the fortune of remaining blissfully ignorant of IO sets, and as a result Merit Rewards are also meaningless to me. To those that love twinking their builds I'm sure Merit Rewards are a boon, but personally I only ever do story arcs and Task/Strike Forces because I feel like doing it. I don't mean to imply that Merit Rewards shouldn't be there, just that I personally never cared about them so I can't really say how appropriate they are.
Well, except for the fact that most people try to skip as many mobs as possible in the LRSF, but I always suspected that has more to do with everyone already being 50 and not being able to get XP than the Merit Rewards attached to the end. I am very much the anti-speedrunner and love to take my time on Strike Forces.
P.S.: You're not a horrible person, I'm just kidding. -
I'm almost two levels away of my HEAT hitting 50. I do say I am entitled to a HEAT^2.
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Quote:Well, Peacebringers are the toughest that the PPD has to offer, assuming you already played a villain into the 40-50 range, and then did a couple of Mayhem Missions, so yeah...Kheldians, though, you'll have almost no knowledge of them and hence no reason to care about the thing you just unlocked. Off the top of my head the only Kheldian-related content that non-Kheldians have access to is the ITF, the Moonfire TF, and Twilight's Son (whose arc has nothing to do with Kheldians, but hey, he's a Kheldian.) Sunstorm is hanging out in AP but he blows you off if you're not a Kheld. The Council fields some Kheld-related enemies but you don't find out anything about the connection unless you're a Kheldian yourself, as I recall.
In other words, unless you've done the Moonfire task force, there's no hook for the Kheldian backstory that makes unlocking one interesting in and of itself, and no reason to go "Oh boy! I can play one of these myself now!" To me, there are two obvious solutions to that: either add more Kheldian-related content in low levels that non-Kheldians can access, or make the Moonfire TF (or a new story arc with similar amounts of Kheldian backstory) unlock the Kheldian ATs.
You are pretty much right, though. With Arachnos' omnipresence red-side, you'll have a pretty good idea even at level 20 what you're getting into when making a VEAT, but you could go from one to fifty and never even hear the words Kheldian, Nictus, Peacebringer or Warshade. Kheldian-related story-arcs are a good idea, but even then that would just mean that Kheldians only exist in indoor instances. Another way to make Kheldians more present in Paragon City, I think, is to replace some places where normal PPD shows up with the Awakened Unit of Peacebringers. Then again, with the scarcity of the PPD you percieve blue-side, even that might not be enough to let everyone know Kheldians exist, so why not replace a couple of Detective Contacts with Kheldians instead?
VEATs have the epic pretty much made for them. They're part of Arachnos, the big mover on the other side of morality. Even with a fairly scarce story, VEATs are still tied to the lore by sheer virtue of being with Arachnos. Kheldians, while having a much more expansive story-line, just don't have as strong a tie to the lore of the game. Sure, they deal heavily with the Council, one of the game's larger villain groups, but on the other hand, the Council doesn't really deal with them. As a result, HEATs feel like a foot-note lorewise while VEATs are irrefutably and quite noticably a part of the lore. -
Quote:I actually love this about the Council. Sure, for groups like the Freakshow or Arachnos it makes sense that the top guys are also the strongest because these groups have a survival-of-the-fittest thing going, but then you have groups like Crey where the Countess really is only on top because of her ability to manipulate people just shy of Nemesis', but she's still also the strongest Crey for no reason that she's the head-Crey.And, of course, our best guess at the Center's power is that he's a mutant with the power of Charisma.
Meanwhile, The Center's the leader of the Council not because he punches hard or he has a lot of guns, but because he's a military genius with the ability to make people believe in his cause. While realism really isn't anyone's number one concern when dealing with a game where guys who wear their underwear on the outside fight after vampire werewolf alien nazis after stopping a cult of undead demon ghost wizards, it's still nice to see someone's on top of the villain word not because he's a fighter, but because he's a leader. -
The sad part about villains in this game is that in an MMOs, they can only ever be lackeys. Heroes work perfectly in the context of an MMO because heroes are reactionary by nature. If a villain attacks, you stop them, and by stopping them you maintain the MMO Status Quo. In fact, your victory is predetermined because the Status Quo must remain unchanged. And as far as motivation is concerned? You're a hero, you just do it because it's right.
But the very same Status Quo that is a hero's greatest boon is a villain's greatest curse. Whereas a hero's victories are great because things must remain the same for the world, a villain's victories are either fleeting because Blue Steel just fixes everything ASAP, or you don't win at all. You can never take over or destroy Paragon City because Paragon City must be there for hero players. You can never take over or take down Arachnos because Arachnos must remain there for the villain players (and really, who would want to sit around in Grandville all day, handing out $name Strike Forces?).
City of Villains is a great idea, but it's constrained by the limits that MMOs impose. As a single player game, or a game with a multi-player function like Demons Soul's, it might just be the perfect game, but as the MMO game that it is, City of Villains will sadly have to remain City of Lackeys.
All that said, I still vastly prefer red-side. I don't mind the reddish-brown of the Rogue Isles because I feel it's thematically appropriate, and blue-side has its blueish-grey and I don't feel that's too varied, either. I love the red-side ATs because of the self-sufficiency many have mentioned, simply because it allows me to switch from soloing to teaming to soloing on a whim. I prefer red-side arcs, all lackeyism aside, since you can tell the writers have become more experienced, the arcs (especially end-game) aren't made up of 90% filler missons, and on a personal note I love the EBs or Heroes/AVs at the end because they tend to give a nice climax to these arcs.
As far as the lackeyism is concerned, I admittedly jump through some mental loops. To justify it to myself, I just tell myself I'm not really working for them, I'm just using them as informants. They got info on a good gig going on, and because they're too pathetic to do it themselves, they relay the information to you. They might benefit from your actions, but ultimately most of the infamy goes to you, not the guy who tells you there's stuff.
All that said, though, it's a good thing that blue-side and red-side feel so differently. If blue-side isn't your thing, you can go red-side, and if red-side annoys you, there's always blue-side. Why try to make both sides more similar if they appeal to different people as they are? -
Quote:While it's true that a good Kheldian player experience, getting one 50 really only gives you experience with an AT. If we go by that logic, to really go into Kheldians with the most experiences means getting a Blaster and Tanker for both ATs to 50 and then a Scrapper for Peacebringers and a Controller for Warshades to 50.Likewise, the kheldian require familiarity with various roles, as they can switch from pure squid blaster, to big lobster tank, to an amalgamation of scrappers, defenders, and blasters. Somebody who got a character to 20 probably hasn't had enough time tinkering with the game to know how to use the different powers and roles well.
To this day I've never played a Tanker, yet I find myself often using dwarf form when playing my Peacebringer. It's true that there's a chance these lowered requirements means an increase in inexperienced in mediocre Kheldian players, but I like to think one way to gaining the experience to play Kheldians well is by playing Kheldians in the first place. Nothing really prepares you for the sheer range of abilities are only having played pretty set-in-stone roles. Plus, we're known for being a particularly nice and friendly MMO community, I say we should stay true to that reputation and show any inexperienced Kheldian (and SoA) players the ropes. -
If anything, Kheldians will benefit from this.
As others have said, more Kheldian players means more attention will be given to the Kheldian ATs.
Furthermore, as much as experience is needed to play Kheldians, the best way to gain said experience is to PLAY Kheldians. With a Kheldian's ability of filling any role, you could argue that you don't just need one toon at 50, but you need a Blaster and Tanker for both, as well as a Scrapper for Peacebringers and a Controller for Warshades at 50 just so you become familiar with all the roles a Kheldian can and often must fill. Me? I got a Blaster to 50 but never even played a Tanker, and yet I still find myself using Dwarf form a lot.
And let's not forget that the normal ATs don't really prepare you for such an oversaturation of powers Kheldians have, and the sheer slot-drought that is a tri-form Kheldian. These things were overwhelming for me, even with a fifty under my belt. Sometimes you just gotta get your feet wet if you want to learn to swim. On that note, even if this does mean an increase in inexperienced Kheldians, aren't we known to be a particularly nice and helpful communities? Why fear "bad" players flooding the game when we can just show them the ropes?
And on THAT note, it's not that it's just newbies that'll be getting Kheldians now. This game pretty much wants you to develop altitis. You may take six months to get a toon or two to level 50, or you may take six months to get a dozen or two toons to level 20. I already heard several stories of vets from the earliest days that have only hit 50 in the past six months. So with the lowered requirements, it's not that only a bunch of newbies will start playing Kheldians now, many experiended vets will now get the chance to try Kheldians as well, probably make their own mistakes and learn to play their Kheldians.
The way I see it, aside from some people who feel this diminishes the accomplishment, the only "drawback" would be bad/inexperienced players, but really? That's an occupational hazard when it comes to MMOs, so that doesn't bother me much, anyway. Plus, I reiterate, the best way to learn to play Kheldians is playing Kheldians. -
Quote:That's right. I also collect money from my magical money tree so I can play CoH.The mantra of this generation. I want it all and I want it now, no requirements, no effort, just rewards!
Get real. I don't power-level, I don't farm infamy, hell, I'm not even bothered by the stamina-less first twenty levels that some people seem to want to just skip past. And you know what? You're right. If you can just get everything in two button presses, it's no fun. It's unfulfilling. In fact, one of CoH's better features is adjustable difficulty settings. You can make sure your missions are challening, not too easy, but not frustrating either. Hell, I'm looking forward to the new endgame content and its promises of challenging content.
But here's what's puzzling me: You're talking about challenge and achievement, but in the same breath you explain just how easy it is now to get to 50. You're right there, too. Even if it took longer, it still wouldn't be difficult, it'd just take more time. Challenge is great, but can what is ultimately just an excercise in patience be called a challenge? Sure, I was genuinely happy when I dinged 50 the first time, I was also excited to try VEATs out, and I was happy when my Bane Spider dinged 50 half a year later, but ultimately I didn't feel all that differently about my MM and about my Bane dinging 50.
Oh, and before you call me out on that: I consider challenge and "hard work" two different things. Hard work is helping your friend who's moving out to carry furniture up and down the stairs. A challenge is beating your record in 100 meter sprinting. Hard work is something you do because it's the right thing to do and challenging yourself or taking on challenges is something you do that's personally gratifying.
I suppose in the end it's all purely semantic and pointless, but that's why it confuses me when people talk about "all their hard work" when talking about this game. -
Quote:The joke here is in a job, my employer pays me so I'm more or less at their mercy. I do have to work hard if I want to afford all the little pleasures in life, like, I dunno, paying an MMO with a monthly subscription fee.I suppose when you get a new job, or even A job, you want your raises every two weeks instead of every 6-12 months since you don't want to have to earn anything, you want it given to you for minimal effort.
But NCSoft here isn't paying me so I can "work" in their game. In fact, I am paying THEM. I don't want to have to put in any substantial effort just to have fun. That's the entire reason I dropped out of other MMOs! I hate to be told "keep playing, it'll be fun!", and I was DELIGHTED to find out that CoH is different in that I can get my fun basically right away.
You want to "work hard" in CoH? Well, solo a MoSTF or something! I'm not stopping you! But personally I like to believe that most people play video games so they can unwind from the hard work of their jobs, not to take the hard work with them, and I'm glad that Paragon Studio's design philosophy reflects that. -
Quote:You know, I realised where that whole problem comes from. It's that ridiculous "epic" in front of the name. The devs may have specified that "epic" means the ATs are tied to the plot of the game more strongly, but to most people "epic" translates into "super awesome special mega thing of unparalleled excellence". Kinda messes up expectations.My complaint is about the downgrading of an "epic" to non epic status.
Where is the endgame reward at 50 now?
And here's my question to you: After getting one toon to 50 and unlocking Epic ATs, what reason, then, is there to get 50? If the only reason to get to 50 is unlocking EATs, how come people bother to level several toons on both sides to 50? -
Quote:Way to miss the bloody point.so that sounds like you hate badges too and wish that they are throw away too?
If people have fun badging on their toons, I'm not going to tell them to stop. In fact, they're doing the right thing! They're having fun!
But the fun of HEATs and VEATs is not unlocking them, it's playing them.
And let's not forget that the only thing you get from badges is the badges themselves, aside from a few Accolade powers that are nice to have but don't make too much of a difference. Epic Archetypes, on the other hand, are pretty damn major an unlockable. I don't care too much about badges, but those that do, well, they have their badges, and we all live merrily together, neither one intruding on the other's fun. Demanding that EATs remain for people with level 50 toons, however, is just you saying "No, I don't think you're good enough for my special ATs! You're not allowed to play them until I deem you fit to play them!" -
Quote:You are not some MMO-veteran. You are not a matyr to playerdom. You are not the unsung hero of a lower-class playerbase.lessening the what some of us went through to get our 50's in the old days and now they just giving them away.
What you "went through"? You played a bloody video game! You talk as if playing CoH was some incredible, mind-numbing chore and as if EATs are shiny unicorns that cure cancer and AIDS.
As you can tell from my tone, I of course disagree with both. I like CoH, and as much as I like EATs, they're not super ATs that invalidate the other ten. I like to think you're quite into CoH yourself, considering you're paying to play the game and even posting on the forums, but when you talk about things you "went through", when others talk about "hard work" and how EATs used to be "meaningful", I think you're forgetting the one important thing is is all about.
Fun. Playing the game is all about having fun and if you're using terms I put in quotation marks, I start doubting you had any. Giving away EATs more easily is so people can have fun more easily. If you honestly fail to see that, well, then that's just sad. -
On the topic of EATS:
Getting to 20 is no more or less an accomplishment than getting to 50 is. Getting to 50 simply takes longer.
That's actually the whole problem behind making EATs unlockable at 50. I think most of us will agree that CoH is not the kind of game where getting to the highest level ASAP is desirable or even that good. I think most think of CoH more as an "enjoy the ride" game. In fact, with the number of character slots you get and the ease at which you level, the game practically wants you to develop altitis.
Getting to 50 to unlock EATs is only an accomplishment in so far that you suppress the urge to make new toons just to unlock EATs. Hell, I heard about enough long time Veterans that have been playing for far longer than I and still haven't unlocked EATs simply because they love having alternate toons so much.
To reiterate: Getting to 50 is not an accomplishment, and it is not hard work. It simply takes quite a bit of time if you stick to it and it takes half of forever if you have altitis. I mean, let's face it: In the last few years, the game went a long way to make the player-experience as convenient and pleasant as possible, with things like patrol XP, adjustable difficulty settings and the Super-Sidekick system. Lowering the requirements for unlocking EATs is just following this design philosophy and I for my part approve of that.
Some people may say that EATs now lose some of their "meaning" because now you don't have to "work" to unlock it anymore, but I say that the only meaning of those ATs, as well as any other AT, is as a vehicle to having fun, and I'm paying NCSoft just for that purpose, to have fun, and not to work towards some arbitrary number. -
Well, there was talk about Electricity Control, so maybe that'll come with I17? My guess is Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning get special attention because they're unique among powersets, kinda like how Dual Blades has the whole combo thing going?
And yes, being able to do Viridian without a horrible grindfest first would be so many kinds of awesome. When they changed badge requirements in I15, it rather irked me that all the badges required for Viridian stayed the same. -
First post after War Witch, if only because I can.
I curse you with every fibre of my being, KAKTOS. -
Quote:Well, considering Paragon Studio's track record, it seems extremely unlikely they won't release a GR item-pack. I see no need to worry about that just yet.Here's what I'm really concerned with:
I sincerely hope that either they will release an in-game item pack separate from the full package game, or will release the game package on their online store. Because if they do neither, then things will become incredibly complicated and uncomfortable for me. I don't care about physical goodies like disks, manuals, figurines or all the assorted crap that comes with a boxed set (I have my CoH and CoV stuff filed away in a box I never open), but I very much want the item pack. -
Quote:The official reason for calling the "epic" is because the Epic Archetypes are tied to the plot of CoH/V. Hell, most people would argue that Kheldians aren't epic at all.Not exactly "epic" if you get them at 20 with the leveling curve we have now. Why not just open them at the start if it will be that soon?
And as others in other threads have mentioned, the devs repeatedly said that making them unlockable at 50 is a mistake, and this is merely fixing said mistake.
CoH is a very accessible game for new players and team players. Making EATs unlockable earlier only fits that theme. -
Me, I go through cycles. I'm playing for one to three months, then I get bored and have my subscription run out for one to three months.
This game is just extremely easy to pick up again compared to other MMOs that just seem to expect you to make a lifetime commitment. There's no content that requires you to be part of an active guild attend every weekend or you'll be kicked out and have no chance of doing that juicy end-game content everyone loves. Instead, you just say "hey guys, I'm doing a Task Force, and everyone's invited!" and you get going.
That's what makes it so difficult to get completely burned out off City of Heroes. I just play when I feel like it and I get to have fun with no strings attached. -
I also heard that people use the last mission of Operative Grillo's last arc to farm Snake bosses, creatively called the Snake Farm.
I'm not a farmer myself, so I can't say how that one compares to those in mac's list.