Nericus
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Posts
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Quote:Funny thing about that is that last I read Peter Weller had apparently disowned the character as it were and was more intent on his current career path. Looks like he changed his mind. Go fig.Originally Posted by Agonus
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Quote:Doc indeed does have it, even if some of his adventures were easy to deduce in a few chapters, the character has the makings of an icon.Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
A campy TV show from the mid-60s?
In all seriousness, that's what rescued the Batman from neglect and, according to Bob Kane, quite possibly termination. In the 50s and early 60s, the character had utterly lost his way, accumulated a distractingly large "supporting" cast (and with the Bat-Mite simply distracting), and exchanged noir-ish fights with his rogues gallery for sci-fi adventures against monsters that would have embarrassed Ed Wood. With the property in development for TV with ABC, however, it made more economic sense to "reboot" the series under Carmine Infantino for at least a partial return to the character's roots. The TV show, although a step backward from Infantino's comics in some respects, was a huge mainstream success and afforded the character a capital of popularity that could be drawn on for years and has been periodically replenished by Messrs. Adams, Rogers, Miller, Burton, and Nolan.
Doc Savage neither hit such a nadir nor received such a lucky break. Still, I defy anyone to read one of the old pulp adventures of The Man of Bronze and deny that he has IT - that undefinable quality that makes for an iconic hero.
To me he's basically Indiana Jones only he doesn't need the fedora and whip. He's got the brains and the skills and trained to I believe peak human condition which means he should be on par with Captain America in terms of strength, but he doesn't have the advantage of the super soldier serum.
Give Doc a movie like Indiana Jones had and you should have a winner. Preferably along the lines of Raiders or Last Crusade. -
My bot-poison has the tier 4 Musculature Radial, he benefits from stronger bots, enhanced defense debuff, to hit debuff, end recovery and a bit of a movement boost. The immob bonus doesn't really apply as poison has a hold.
All in all, a good choice and I suspect my bot trap will also enjoy it.
Cardiac may be better for bot/FF especially if they took the repulsor field, otherwise nerve for the def boost.
bot/arrow: musculature, nerve, cardiac or spiritual.
Bot/pain: likely cardiac or else spiritual for heal boost.
Bot/storm: musculature, cardiac or spirit. -
Quote:Likely due to how many comics have been published over the years, how many "Bat" series are currently running, and how he is essentially the Bat-deity of the DCUOriginally Posted by Lothic
A character like Doc Savage might be as old as Batman, be as well developed and even have a big fan base. But as you point out clearly Batman has "something extra" that Doc Savage doesn't. Whatever makes Batman "more remembered" than Doc is what makes him iconic.
The Doc hasn't had quite that level of exposure. -
Quote:Doc Savage movie was a dud due to the director sticking the the idea of camp humor and for losing funding while in production. They couldn't even finish the sound track and had use that patriotic song instead. Shane Black is tapped to direct a new Doc Savage movie set in the 30's with the his Fab Five friends. Here's hoping.Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
If we're now factoring in "popular cultural recognition" for a character's qualifications for iconic status, then Venom, as the weak link in the Spider-Man movie franchise, gets demoted in the same fashion as film-flops Spawn, Judge Dredd, Tank Girl, or the evidently unadaptable Punisher (whose movie career has a whopping three strikes against the character).
On the other hand, one could argue that mainstream recognition is overrated, especially if Hollywood's imprimatur is required. Doc Savage and the Shadow, both iconic pulp heroes, bombed at the box office, but their premiere status is indisputable. Certainly fans recognize them without prompting.
After a disastrous cameo in the Wolverine movie (which was, incidentally, held afloat only by Hugh Jackman's star power, not the character), Deadpool's movie fortunes look increasinly dim as once-favored leading man Ryan Reynolds devotes himself to Green Lantern. The odds of his breaking through are fairly low at this point.
If pop culture penetration is the defining factor for iconic comics heroes, i.e. blockbuster movies, then Pixar's The Incredibles, which got their comic book after their movie, should definitely be considered iconic.
The Shadow: script could have better and Baldwin was not my first choice for the part.
The Wolverine movie.....oh ick.
Still I'd say that the Shadow is an icon and due to all his massive over exposure over the years, so is Wolverine.
Doc Savage however seems to have receded from the minds of many and I was glad that he got a new comic series of late. Here's hoping that stirs up the interest in this character. Also the First Wave issue that had Doc Savage meet Batman was interesting as the Doc is one of the few characters I can think of that could take down Batman in a fight.
Still the two characters are similar: both lost their fathers, both trained from a young age: one to be an adventurer and the other a crime fighter, both have access to a vast supply of wealth, both are extremely intelligent in just about every field of science and combat.
One would think the Doc would be as remembered as Batman, but that doesn't seem to be the case. -
Quote:Last I read there are some "clone-brothers" of Dredd, the first Rico went bad and Dredd dealt with him. Over time others have been created with one taking the name Rico to redeem the name. One clone decided he wasn't a machine from an assembly line and chose not to be a judge. In keeping with the mystery of what Dredd looks like, they altered his face and skin tone before releasing him.Originally Posted by Bull Throttle
It's a very good question - I don't think he could ever be seen to lose against a law breaker and didn't he already do the long walk?
(I cant remember the name of the strip but it was about a very burnt/scarred guy wandering through the cursed earth, eventually revealed to be Dredd to no-one's surprise)
They've tried cloning him and that didn't work out... they've tried making him Chief Judge at least once, twice? (Haven't read it for over 10 years) I guess he'll be retiring with his Law books with fluffy slippers and Walter (or did they finally kill off the wobot?)
I suppose he'll get a re-juve and start again.
I think he ran for Chief Judge to help oust a corrupt chief, can't recall all the details at present.
He did resign/retire at one point and took the walk but that was part of a larger story as I recall. In the end, Dredd was back.
Need to go back and do some rereading myself. Been awhile. -
Quote:While the Stallone movie didn't help the character at least in the USA, I doubt he was hurt that bad in Britain. The new movie should repair any lingering damage and bring him back into the minds of the current generation.Originally Posted by Bull Throttle
I suppose it depends on how you term 'iconic' - the number of people who would recognise them? The number of media forms they span?
Dredd certainly hit the mainstream conciousness over here in Brit-land long before the movie - from people wearing Dredd T-shirts on TV to newspaper headlines, but I feel he's faded away a lot now. I doubt the average-man-in-the-street would recognise him - same with Tank Girl; both great characters who were all over in the media (until sunk by a sub-par movie
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Dredd and Tank Girl pretty much lay the ground for Lara Croft, she was everywhere - now, most people would associate her with the films rather than the games. They were all iconic - but are they still? Does iconic allow for a time-limit or is it forever?
The only British Comic character I would happily sit next to Spider-man now with any hope of the average brit knowing who they were would be Dan Dare - possibly along with stuff from The Beano like Dennis the Menace; I've no idea if any would cross the pond - the US have their own Dennis so I doubt they'd recognise the UK version and he's about as iconic as they come here.
For me the main question is how much longer will the character run as Dredd does age despite the medical tech of the world he lives in. How will Dredd go out? The Long Walk or in battle while upholding the law?
Place your bets. -
Quote:The covert op may be disgraced in the eyes of Parliament, but as he told Mal, "I think they know I am no longer....their man."Originally Posted by Lord_Nightblade
Tense situation, yes. But it'd never happen. The Operative of Parliament is a dyed in the wool, fanatical Alliance loyalist. Even disgraced as he is, he wouldn't join up with the crew of Serenity.
Besides, Mal would make good on his promise to kill the Operative if they ever meet again.
He's not serving them anymore. After seeing the origin of the Reavers and what a "perfect world without sin" can be, he can't serve them anymore.
As to Mal killing him, yeah probably. Unless circumstances dictate they need each other alive for a time. -
Quote:Grey Pilgrim, I'm not advocating that Serenity be discounted and continuity being reset just stating it as one possibility, albeit not a likely one.Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Nericus, if the show came back, they would likely either have to continue the show after the events of the movie (unlikely), or jump in and watch events between when the series ended and when the movie started (a la how Cowboy Bebop handled its movie, just in reverse).
Nixing where Whedon went with the story and calling it not canon is not going to happen. The creator of the show and movie wrote it, so you're just going to write it out? That's just weird sounding, and Whedon wouldn't go for it, I'm quite sure.
It's better to just call the series done, other than smaller stories being told elsewhere, like Shepherd's Tale or something. Whedon really wrapped up the show in the movie... and it's not just characters dying that does it. You could theoretically say that maybe there is still more to River than her knowledge of the Reavers (I know I thought there should be more than just that), but it's wrapped up. People have moved on to other things.
Maybe something else could happen in that universe, but Whedon would have to find something he wanted to do there again. It might happen, but I'm not holding my breath.
I'm sure River knows more then the just the Reavers, also the fact that there was the episode when Simon was able to get her brain scanned and saw the physical damage done to her brain. Basically her reality matrix/perception of reality is still likely not what we would call normal and her telepathy switch is still set to the ON position, its just now she has a handle on it and perhaps with some medicines can still compensate for the physical damage to her brain. Mentally, ok knowing the secret of the Reavers and who knows what else definitely didn't help, plus she is still mentally wired with who knows what command words that could set her off. Is River 100% cured? Nope. Is she on the road to recovery? Yep. So there are plenty of stories for her, heck Mal might even be able to use her secret knowledge of the alliance to rally a new Browncoat resistance and start the war again.
The Reavers: the movie did not make it clear if they were all wiped out in space and on the ground, so there may be survivors to prowl the stars.
The Alliance: parliament has taken a bad blow thanks to that message that Mal broadcasted. The start of a new revolution? Maybe. Start of reform within parliament or at least the appearance of reform? Maybe. Alliance mad as blazes at Mal? IF they know he was the one that made the broadcast then they may have marked him for death.
Mal: clearly this broadcast about the Reavers and thus hurting the Alliance has helped cure some of his Post Traumatic Stress from the war. What does he do now? Marry Inara? (he's an idiot if he doesnt), keep on dodging the Alliance? has to if the Tams stick around. Also his constant quest to hurt the alliance helped trigger events that got Wash killed, so now he and Zoe may have problems with each other. Not that it was Mal's fault per se but she may end up hating Mal for a time.
The Covert Operative: what does he do now? Go religious like Book did? Become a mercenary? Fight the Alliance? Join the crew of Serenity? Wouldn't mind seeing him do the last for the tension and drama it would create, plus Mal would again have someone who knows how the Alliance works like the Shepard did.
Planet Miranda: If Mal wants to get some nice goods to sell such as medicines, or parts for the ship and restock food and weapons and medicine for the ship then that planet is a gold mine, presuming the Reavers are gone. They can go in with air masks like in the movie, get the supplies they need, leave and sell the stuff and come back for more.
Many stories for the comics and novels, if not the screen. Joss can easily keep it going with Dark Horse like he does with Angel and Buffy. -
Quote:Unless they decide that the movie isn't canon thus Wash and the Shepard haven't died.Originally Posted by UltraTroll
You really think Nathan Fillon is going to leave a hit TV series to return to Firefly?
Firefly coming back ain't going to happen Serenity pretty much made sure of that. It ended a lot of storylines and killed two of the more popular characters.
I Doubt We will see the Firefly 2: The Search for Shepard anytime soon.
Downsides to that are that I doubt the fans would unanimously accept that and be split among the two universes. Also Ron Glass the actor that played Book isn't exactly a young man these days and may not be up for the part, that would be up to him of course.
The comic Shepard's Tale gives us the main points of his rather checkered past.
How's this for an interesting character dynamic: The covert operative from Serenity has now left the alliance and while perhaps not finding religion, he still lives a life devoted to peace and perhaps fighting the alliance' injustice at times. Through no planning of his own, he again meets up with Mal and crew and ends up joining them. Talk about tension! -
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Quote:Humans have a tough time treating each other with respect and dignity. If an AI came online, I could easily see panic and attempts to pull the plug on it before we understand it. If that happens then lets hope the AI isn't named Skynet and its not linked into the military computer systems or else.....BOOM.Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Humans are certainly not given "core programming" to prevent them from killing other people. I don't think it's really ethical to be forcing another sentient being (whether biological or technological) to have no choice in following some predefined list of rules. Would you think it to be OK to use drugs and brainwashing techniques to get children to behave the way you want them to?
That could happen with those Asimov laws just as much.
I say that if we treated them with the respect and dignity that all intelligent life deserves (instead of trying to force them to behave the way we want out of some preemptive fear that they might rebel because we're trying to use them as slave labor--that's how it starts in most fiction of this type, doesn't it?), then we won't have to worry about whether they're going to slaughter us all.
Watson isn't there yet, though. It's just another baby step in that direction, maybe.
A program safeguard of some kind to keep it from using terminal force on us should be included. That doesn't make it a slave or incapable of other decisions, just that it will not kill. We endeavor to teach our kids to not kill others or use excess violence, not to use drugs or alcohol, etc etc etc, but a human can easily reject such teachings either by choice or if they have some type of mental ailment that prevents such behavior inhibition, or are just plain nuts (example the recent shooter in Arizona).
So a program safeguard such as "Thou shalt not kill" or "You cannot harm a human or through inaction allow a human to come to harm" is teaching the AI to not kill, they just can't reject it if it is in their core programming or hardwired into it.
As to Robocop's Prime Directives vs Asimovs Three Laws of Robotics: Robocop is human brain hardwired to a CPU and its shown that his human side can overcome the machine except for Directive 4 which appears to be hardwired into him.
Asimov's laws of robotics appear to less open to interpretation, not saying they are foolproof, but I think I'd trust them better then Robocop's Prime Directives. -
Quote:While I would prefer religion not get mixed with AI, the THOU SHALT NOT KILL one should be the one and only one installed into the core programming.Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Yeeeeah, about those ten commandments! Let's be leaving out any particular religion's rules out of an AI's programming. Let them come to that kind of decision for themselves.
I prefer these laws over those others you listed. A lot more straightforward and honest. If we're gonna be building a slave race, let's get serious and not try to fool ourselves with flowery language.
As for Robocop's Prime Directives, I don't think I'd want an AI running around with those as who knows how it may best decide to serve the public trust. Also how would it define "innocent"? Maybe it will decide to uphold the laws by herding humans into concentration camps or something to reduce crime?
Yes I'm being a bit extreme the above examples, but a "NO KILL" or "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" should be it's number one rule followed by obedience to orders that its given provided none of said orders involve killing. -
They say it was due to complications from a surgical procedure. They don't say what the procedure was.
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Quote:If only I could own both CN and Sci-Fi channel......yes I call i Sci-Fi and step one is that it will be SCI-FI again in name and content.Originally Posted by Night-Hawk07
This is happening to just about every channel that started with a "focus". Cartoon Network now shows live-action shows and movies, Sci-Fi became Syfy and now shows wrestling and seems to be trying to get away from just science-fiction based shows. History Channel for the most part seems to show stuff that has a long history attached to it, not history itself. SPEED channel used to show a lot of racing from European road races, to local short tracks in the U.S. Now it's just a bunch of bs shows vaguely related to racing, with the occasional Australian V8 Supercar races, sports car races (ALMS, Rolex, etc), and of course most of the NASCAR weekend (not that I'm complaining about that ).
It's irritating. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Turgenev
Well, put THIS one to bed. Profitable work too, plenty of shard and cash opporunities, and in one instance, a single purple drop (a good one, too).
Yeah in all my 50 runs only one purple drop from the confusion set. Ick -
Quote:Yes, some red name mention of bases would be nice. Increasing salvage bins beyond the limit of 30 would be nicer. I fondly remember the days of having hundreds of items in them.Originally Posted by unjust
I know. I am only trying to express my sadness and disappointment I have over the base issue. I would be VERY pleased to hear a developer even so much as say ,"were looking at bases". We don't even get that. I don't mean to sound bitter about this, but the lack of interest in bases from the dev's saddens me because i have fun working on my base.
As for Issue 20 and a surprise for bases. That, would indeed be nice. -
I believe the current plan is that each slot gives a level shift and they all combine to make our characters the equivalent of an L60.
if that makes you too powerful, either don't level shift on every slot or else deslot some of them, then reslot when its time to do something that requires full power.
However a purpled up character is also pretty tough as Aura has posted. -
Quote:What I said was sheer speculation. For all we know ish 20 may have a surprise for bases....or not.Originally Posted by unjust
If you were a dev and said that, I would then believe that our comatose patient has hope to one day make a recovery. That being said, your not a dev. And life support is still hooked up to our patient. And were left still hoping for someone to come in and check on it.
Now if GR included a base revamp that would have been nice. -
Quote:Yes, but the AI must be programmed/educated/taught things. To borrow a note from the Sarah Connors Chronicles, I believe the federal agent commented how the AI needed to be taught the "ten commandments" particularly "Thou Shalt not Kill" after what happened to the psychiatrist that was working with it.Originally Posted by Furio
Ray Kurzweil figures we'll have that (reversed engineered the human brain and built human level AI) by the mid 2020s. Was the Time magazine cover story last week.
Or at the least Asimov's three laws of robotics.
1. Shall not harm a human nor through inaction allow a human to come to harm
2. Obey all orders unless they conflict with law 1.
3. Protect its own existence unless such protection conflicts with laws 1 and 2. -
Quote:It could also be that the coding for bases is a tangled train wreck that cannot be sorted out and should be scrapped and replaced. Problem with THAT is that many groups could lose their well built bases and need to rebuild them from scratch using whatever new tools are implemented.Originally Posted by unjust
I wouldn't say it's over yet. Base building has been on life support for so long that I think if the dev's could find a way to pull the plug, they would. Stacker has been one of the biggest names in base building, If not arguably the biggest. I think stacker is seeing the same thing I am. There is still hope for the bases, but it's fleeting. Already so many inventive and creative builders have left or given up on Base Building, that if something isn't done soon, there will be no one to care about bases.
I don't think the Dev's are trying to deliberately ignore the bases, I just think there isn't a dev who has any interest in trying to save the bases. There not trying to be cold or callous. This is there business. And the dev's have invested no passion into base building.
Is it over? No
It's just lying in a hospital bed in a dark room. Tubes and wires sticking out and running to machines. no one visits anymore. No one cares. -
Quote:More like this is a second annihilation wave that annihilus is building up after being reborn at the end of Annihilation.Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Er, that whole Annihilation thing is still going on?
Also the death scene is way too ambiguous, also the original Android Torch was reactivated before this, so Marvel still has a Torch it's just not Johnny Storm.
But for this Annhilation wave that appears to be coming there are no Guardians of the Galaxy, and no Nova Corps or Nova Prime to spear head the fight. Yes there are the Annihilators which were gathered as part of Star Lord's plans in case he and the Guardians fell. They have the sheer might to go against an annihilation wave, but more will be needed. -
Quote:Hm, makes sense as we did see Media Break news footage of Robocop visiting the kids at Lee Iaccoa Elementary School...Originally Posted by Agonus
Not necessarily.
Just a guess (going by an episode of The Wire I watched last night) but I -think- PD 1 is more of a social appearances sorta thing. Like on the Wire episode, civilians were telling politicians they missed the days when police officers were able to stop by and talk to them directly, allowing for police to actually know who they were protecting. As opposed to modern times (of the show, anyway) when police were absorbed in the war on drugs 24/7. -
Quote:But the story itself would still end up mostly the same.Originally Posted by sleestack
I'm just guessing here, but I think the point is to make money. Large amounts of money.
1. Officer gunned down
2. Officer converted into an "electric Frankenstein" or cyborg.
3. human memories are slowly resurfacing
4. cyborg realizes for the most part who he was and that his old life and family are gone and anger begins to override his programming
5. cyborg takes down his killers.
6. killers escape arrest somehow and return with major firepower for the rematch.
7. cyborg wins and regains at least most of his old memories if not his emotions.
8. throw in corruption in the company that built him along with evil-near mindless robots for extra foes.
Sequel: new Robocop is built but is evil and it's a cyborg battle to the finish. I still chuckle at the part in the second movie when Robocop appears to fight Robocop 2/Cain and as they fight the CEO yells "BEHAVE YOURSELVES!" Yeah like that is really going to stop two cyborgs in kill mode.....
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Quote:Strictly speaking there is no point. Robocop regained at least a portion of his memories and personality which led to him going after his killers, then I think when ED-209 smacked him around it did some CPU damage as I don't think his directives were online. Boddicker was appearing to surrender and directives 3 and 1 should have had him arrest him again. Instead Murphy is back in control as he states "I'm not arresting you anymore!" Then of course at the end he smiles at the CEO and says his name is "Murphy".Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Yeah but does a cosmetic upgrade to his HUD and rewording of his central programming really necessitate a whole new movie? I mean, what's the point if they already hit the themes and emotional tones they were shooting for?
Robocop 2 his directives were back online and he seemed mechanical again, then he's ripped up and given about 500 directives which really scrambled him until he was able to overcome them enough to overload himself and fry his systems a bit, thus bringing Murphy back and scrubbing all directives from his system. Guess there was no self preservation directive among the hundreds he was given
Robocop 3 all 4 directives are back but now he seemed more balanced and able to function as a human despite them and once they yanked directive 4, he could go after OCP like he wanted since they were breaking the law without question. However it was when his memory got jolted and he recalled what happened to Lewis....well that really burned him up and he went after the mercenaries. That scene was funny when he returned to the station:
"Murphy! Did you know there was a warrant for your arrest?"
Robocop stands there as all the cops just stare at him nervously simply responds "Yes..."
"Just checking!"
Robo then goes to where the mercenaries are at and one asks for a light and Robo just says "Allow me SCUM!" and burns the place down. I would say that Prime Directives 1, 2 and 3 were there but that Murphy overrode them. Yes OCP and the Mercenaries were breaking the law and yes they are now easily classified as cop killers but still Directive 1, 2 and 3 should have moderated his behavior a tad.