Thank you Alpha Slot
By
AnElfCalledMack,
Posted on: 2011-02-16 23:14 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Not to say that isn't great news that I agree with, buuut...
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=252500
Yes I love the new dimension this brings to character building.
One thing I'm not terribly fond of is the level shift, which doesn't really add as much as it takes away. I'll have to wait and see how the devs deal with the widening gap between incarnates and non-incarnates.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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What do you mean by the level shift takes away?
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
Yes I love the new dimension this brings to character building.
One thing I'm not terribly fond of is the level shift, which doesn't really add as much as it takes away. I'll have to wait and see how the devs deal with the widening gap between incarnates and non-incarnates. |
Too many alts to list.
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It makes non-incarnate characters feel considerably weak in comparison. It's not too noticeable now, but if they add more level shifts the difference in performance between an incarnate and a non-incarnate will be enormous.
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Originally Posted by docbuzzard
What do you mean by the level shift takes away?
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
I think this is WAI. An incarnate SHOULD feel powerful. This is also one of the reasons why I won't take all my 50s into the level-shift Alpha slot. The common Cardiac for example is good enough to shore up their weaknesses. I don't want some of my 50s to yawn while fighting level 50 mobs.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
It makes non-incarnate characters feel considerably weak in comparison. It's not too noticeable now, but if they add more level shifts the difference in performance between an incarnate and a non-incarnate will be enormous.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
Isn't it the point of spending time to get Alpha slots??? |
Originally Posted by Auroxis
It makes non-incarnate characters feel considerably weak in comparison. It's not too noticeable now, but if they add more level shifts the difference in performance between an incarnate and a non-incarnate will be enormous.
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I'll be worried if people feel alpha slots don't make much difference...because then, what is the point of doing it?
Those that don't have alpha slots can't complain that they feel "inferior" because those that do have alpha slots spend time to get them.
The game isn't required to have alpha slots, so I don't see any problem at all. It may just make farming easier because of level shift.
Incarnate > Non-Incarnate makes perfect sense to me
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I'm sorry, where is this "competition" you allude to? Does the Incarnate System even work in PvP?
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Originally Posted by Katten
Best thing is F. U. IO System. You are finally able to become competitive by PLAYING THE GAME instead of sitting in a market and running back and forth between there, the crafting table, and farms.
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
I'm more concerned about what will happen to the existing lvl 50 Task Forces and missions. I've been doing the ITF and LGTF on my +1, and unfortunately what was previously pretty easy is now so simple that it's kind of boring. The other TFs have exemp mechanics to protect them somewhat from power inflation. I'm curious about what day to day will be like once becoming full on incarnate, since you obviously can't run raids all the time.
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If your cardiac bonuses already help you feel more powerful, what's the point in adding a level shift?|
Originally Posted by Asha'man
I think this is WAI. An incarnate SHOULD feel powerful. This is also one of the reasons why I won't take all my 50s into the level-shift Alpha slot. The common Cardiac for example is good enough to shore up their weaknesses. I don't want some of my 50s to yawn while fighting level 50 mobs.
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Isn't it the point of spending time to get Alpha slots??? I'll be worried if people feel alpha slots don't make much difference...because then, what is the point of doing it? |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
Do you understand the concept of "more"? You're basically arguing that since 1 + 1 = 2, there's no need for 3 or higher.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
If your cardiac bonuses already help you feel more powerful, what's the point in adding a level shift?
See above. The bonuses from alpha slots make characters more powerful, and so will the rest of the slots, without the level shift. |
It's fine if you don't feel the need for your characters to be more powerful, but that doesn't mean everyone should be limited by what they can do.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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That's not my argument at all. |
Originally Posted by DarkGob
Do you understand the concept of "more"? You're basically arguing that since 1 + 1 = 2, there's no need for 3 or higher.
It's fine if you don't feel the need for your characters to be more powerful, but that doesn't mean everyone should be limited by what they can do. |
Sure you're more powerful with the level shift, but you're already powerful with the alpha slot and the level shift makes none level shifted characters feel weak in comparison which is not a good thing. I'm merely stating that the cons outweigh the pros.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
Sorry that you "feel weak" but your inadequacies are not my problem. Gameplay-wise, my level shift does precisely nothing to affect how you play.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
That's not my argument at all.
Sure you're more powerful with the level shift, but you're already powerful with the alpha slot and the level shift makes none level shifted characters feel weak in comparison which is not a good thing. I'm merely stating that the cons outweigh the pros. |
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Quote:
I'm not worried I'll be feeling weak. I'm worried that casual and newer players will feel weak, and this will turn them away from the game.
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Originally Posted by DarkGob
Sorry that you "feel weak" but your inadequacies are not my problem. Gameplay-wise, my level shift does precisely nothing to affect how you play.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
I think that's silly. It's not going to turn away newer players because a level 10 is going to feel weak compared to a level 50 anyway. Casual players maybe, but that's only if the devs don't develop alternate gateways into the Incarnate System, which it seems that they are (by all reports, the BAF raid is something that can be completed in a relatively short period of time, so combined with the League System there's no reason a casual gamer shouldn't be able to participate unless they're forcing themselves to always play solo).|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
I'm not worried I'll be feeling weak. I'm worried that casual and newer players will feel weak, and this will turn them away from the game.
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I think you're really blowing this out of proportion.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Quote:
I hate to be so blunt, but your first car does not get slower because you bought a second, faster car. Having the first car feel slower is understandable, but is an illusion. |
Originally Posted by Auroxis
That's not my argument at all.
Sure you're more powerful with the level shift, but you're already powerful with the alpha slot and the level shift makes none level shifted characters feel weak in comparison which is not a good thing. I'm merely stating that the cons outweigh the pros. |
My Incarnate characters feel much more powerful than my other characters, and I like this. One of the best parts about it is getting on to a 'lesser' character, feeling the difference, and thinking "Hmm, imagine what this will look like when I've gotten my Alpha..."
Speaking for myself, I have a Mace/Shield Brute who went from a wind-sucking weakling to a monsterous, giggle-inducing, enemy-destroying FORCE OF BLOODY NATURE with the application of a little bit of Alpha power. With most of my other Alpha characters, the change has felt evoloutionary, with him it was revoloutionary.
There are still things he feels a bit weak against, but most of those are city-threataning Superthreats, and so I can live with that.
"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Still CoHzy after all these years...
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...must hit 50 on my Mace/Shield Brute. MUST HIT 50 NAO|
Originally Posted by Tetsuko_NA
Speaking for myself, I have a Mace/Shield Brute who went from a wind-sucking weakling to a monsterous, giggle-inducing, enemy-destroying FORCE OF BLOODY NATURE with the application of a little bit of Alpha power. With most of my other Alpha characters, the change has felt evoloutionary, with him it was revoloutionary.
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I'm guessing you went with Cardiac?
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Quote:
I might be, but I think the invention system already did a good job of separating the casual from the "hardcore", and the incarnate system doesn't need to have the level shift added on as it does a fine job making you more powerful without it.|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
I think that's silly. It's not going to turn away newer players because a level 10 is going to feel weak compared to a level 50 anyway. Casual players maybe, but that's only if the devs don't develop alternate gateways into the Incarnate System, which it seems that they are (by all reports, the BAF raid is something that can be completed in a relatively short period of time, so combined with the League System there's no reason a casual gamer shouldn't be able to participate unless they're forcing themselves to always play solo).
I think you're really blowing this out of proportion. |
Imagine being in an ITF facing purple cons just because some members of your team have +4 level shifts and they get too bored beating on grey cons. Does that sound fun to you? Probably not, and hopefully the devs will implement something that discourages such situations.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
Very good example!
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Originally Posted by Tetsuko_NA
I hate to be so blunt, but your first car does not get slower because you bought a second, faster car. Having the first car feel slower is understandable, but is an illusion.
My Incarnate characters feel much more powerful than my other characters, and I like this. One of the best parts about it is getting on to a 'lesser' character, feeling the difference, and thinking "Hmm, imagine what this will look like when I've gotten my Alpha..." |
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Then do +2 or +3! |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I'm more concerned about what will happen to the existing lvl 50 Task Forces and missions. I've been doing the ITF and LGTF on my +1, and unfortunately what was previously pretty easy is now so simple that it's kind of boring. The other TFs have exemp mechanics to protect them somewhat from power inflation. I'm curious about what day to day will be like once becoming full on incarnate, since you obviously can't run raids all the time.
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I've been asking the leader to make it harder because harder is always better!
The biggest difference I've felt is in Apex. I tried it with my level shift Fortunata and it was so much easier.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I've been wondering about that too. I have played WOW off and on, and enjoyed the game. One thing I dont care as much for in that system however is how the end game is based on trivializing previous max level encounters/instances.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I'm more concerned about what will happen to the existing lvl 50 Task Forces and missions. I've been doing the ITF and LGTF on my +1, and unfortunately what was previously pretty easy is now so simple that it's kind of boring. The other TFs have exemp mechanics to protect them somewhat from power inflation. I'm curious about what day to day will be like once becoming full on incarnate, since you obviously can't run raids all the time.
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With LK once I hit 80 and got my gear to say TOC 10/25 level the heroic runs became largely pointless. And with a 5-man full of equal geared people boring.
I see one key difference in that lvl 50/50+ content will always drop the same IO's. The 'gear' drops from ITF wont get worse by comparison. That is unless/until the new super orange level IO's for level 55+ mobs or some such start coming out. Something like that would start the WOWish end game path.
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Not a problem in WOW and I suspect other games. Though those game require strong guilds and tight raiding schedules (and associated drama/elitism) to work the higher level content. Something I hope to not see in COH.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
I'm not worried I'll be feeling weak. I'm worried that casual and newer players will feel weak, and this will turn them away from the game.
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I like the idea of the new 'turnstile' system, is it for all TF's? Or just the incarnate ones?
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I am almost positive that later Incarnate Slots will be disabled on non-Incarnate content.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
I might be, but I think the invention system already did a good job of separating the casual from the "hardcore", and the incarnate system doesn't need to have the level shift added on as it does a fine job making you more powerful without it.
Imagine being in an ITF facing purple cons just because some members of your team have +4 level shifts and they get too bored beating on grey cons. Does that sound fun to you? Probably not, and hopefully the devs will implement something that discourages such situations. |
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Quote:
That would be a nice way to go about it. They could also just not give us any more level shifts, maybe just one more in the Omega slot.
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Originally Posted by DarkGob
I am almost positive that later Incarnate Slots will be disabled on non-Incarnate content.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
I wouldn't even be surprised if the Alpha Slot is actually disabled for non-Incarnate content at a later date. I would be displeased, but not surprised.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
I am really coming to love the new Alpha Slot system.
They are completely revitalizing characters that sit at 50 untouched simply because they had one or two glaring faults.
My Fire/Cold Corruptor for example, awesome fun powers (and dual storms) but runs out of endurance constantly outside of heat loss (which will get me as often as not). This had made me do terrible things, like choosing either attack only or shield/debuff only, due to endurance issues on a fast team.
Suddenly, cardiac. I can use artic fog, I can use leadership, AND attack/buff/debuff. I'm no more survivable but I am not constantly limited anymore.
Best thing is F. U. IO System. You are finally able to become competitive by PLAYING THE GAME instead of sitting in a market and running back and forth between there, the crafting table, and farms. If I really want to invest in a character, IO's, sure. But finally the simply okay 'just for fun' characters can start doing any 50 content they want to and not rot away.
Thanks for getting it right devs. Thank you.
"Fascinating. I'm not bored at all, I swear." -Kikuchiyo